I honestly don't have a clue whether this post will stay up or not, but since it is one of "the" newbie question, here seemed to be the place for this.

It's a question that pops up frequently, and is sure to be followed by a litany of negatives and assurances about how reputable ladies take better care of themselves than most civvies, which is unquestionably true.  Unfortunately these assurances  (which I have myself indulged in) tend to gloss over the possibilities and distract from the potential consequences of our "hobby" that the newbie is asking about.

Recently I experienced an "equipment failure" while with a lady and for several seconds there was unprotected contact.  Nothing intentional on anyones part and nobody's fault, just one of those things.  There isn't a review, don't bother...

Several days later I found some lesions in the worst possible place that the dermatologist identified as Molluscum, a harmless little viral infection that is more pain in the ass than anything, but still very difficult to explain.

Further testing has now returned a positive result for Herpes type 2 (I was negative less than a year ago).  This hobby that I previously considered a relatively harmless diversion has almost certainly cost me my wife and family, and life as I know it has changed forever.

I take full responsibility for myself here and certainly hold no malice, I have met many wonderful ladies whose company I enjoyed immensely. This isn't "her" fault, it is the result of activities that I willingly (hell, eagerly) participated in and enjoyed.  I have, however, come to the decision that, whether my marriage ends or not I cannot continue to indulge myself in this manner knowing that I could be contagious without outward symptoms, and so must take my leave of "the hobby".

I do have to wonder though, how prevalent Herpes is in the hobby.  I know several hobbyists who have it but are afraid to admit it openly (can you just hear the stampede of ladies running to add me to their "do not see" list?).

In any case, this isn't intended as a diatribe, nor is it the beginning of a crusade.  Consider it instead a dose of cold reality, a cautionary tale.

Good thoughts to the friends I have made here, both the guys and ladies.  I may pop in now and again for no good reason, but probably not often or for long. So, it's been a helluva ride but I guess it all comes down to

PocketFisherman,
signing off

Actually, the chances that you go the virus when the condom broke is slim. Herpes affects BIILIONS of people in north america and is a very wide spread disease. You can get the disease through simple sexual contact including blow jobs (proteted or not) Condoms do not prevent the disease. The only prevention is complete abstinence...(name me a human aside from the high priest that can pull that off) You can get lots of info from google on the virus. i have been lucky to have not caught something but the chances that many people have caught something like herpes from hobbying or providing are very high (approx. 1 in 4 people have some form of the virus)
Also the fact that you have caught the virus from hobbying is not guaranteed either.... does your wife have cold sores? do you have cold sores? if this is the case then you MAY have spead the virus from one location to the other by neglecting to wash your hands or vice versa. Food for thought that may save your marriage.

Approximately 3 out 4 of us have at least one of the two forms (HSV1-oral or HSV-2 genital) of the virus.  Approximately 1 out of 4 of us has the genital form of the virus Poketfisherman caught. This form of the virus is general transmitted through sexual contact and not likely from contact with his wife or anyone else’s cold sore.  In adults, molluscum, especially if it occurs in the genital area is considered an STD. Both HSV-2 and molluscum infection can result from intimate skin contact alone, even the absence of condom failure. Besides abstinence prevention can be achieve by having a monogamous relationship with someone tested negative for genital Herpes. It should be clear that by the nature of the hobby we are all a somewhat greater risk of being infected, especially with STDs (HPV, HSV-2) in which condoms are only partially effective. If these risks are realized we should take responsibility for our action and not blame the Provider as Poketfishmen has.

but that someone is not I.

I have gotten two STD's from civie dates back in my early twenties, and that was from seeing no more than about six different gals over the course of about six to seven years.

Since then, I have seen nearly 200 different providers and not once have I come up with an STD from them.

If that doesn't say something, than I don't know what does.

Two STDs from from “no more than 6 gals”(civies)? Why are your numbers changing from post to post on this matter to reflect an ever increasing risk from civies with every subsequent post?

From: http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=33300&boardID=33&page=

“To date, I have had sexual contact with about 12 civies and contracted three STD's from them:  Gonorrhea, non specific ureathritis, and crab lice (if you want to count that as an STD.) That's a 25% STD rate.

I have had sexual contact with somewhere over 160 different providers over the last thirty- five years.  Number of STD's = 0.”

From: http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=34299&boardID=33&page=

”On the other hand, I got two STD's and a case of crab lice from just ten civvies I had dated when younger.”

Only 1 of the 3 STDs you claim to have caught from civvies, 30 + years ago, Gonorrhea, is a bona fide STD.  Gonorrhea rate have decrease by 70% in the last 30 years and the risk 30 years ago is not comparable with the present day Gonorrhea risk.  You fail to mention as you imply in a previous post that most of your contact with civvies in your early 20’s were unprotected whereas all your contact with Provider have been protected. Is it fair to compare the risk of unprotected Civie sex 30 year ago with more recent protected Provider sex?

With respect to not catching STD you can only say that for the STDs you have been tested for! For example men are not tested for HPV, the most frequently transmitted STD. Like genital herpes HPV is only partial protected by condoms. Fortunately for men HPV infections are rather benign but not always so for the ladies. Reading this and my local boards the large number of ladies being surgical treated for cervical dysplasia  (80-90% cause by the HPV virus) suggest that the HPV prevalence in the hobby population may be higher than we want to admit.

We should all realized that all other thing being equal with the use of protection we have an increase risk for STD infection in this hobby just like skiers have an increase risk for breaking a leg than non skiers for their recreational hobby.  For ladies, STDs are an occupational risk especially for STD like genital herpes and HPV.  It comes down to whether we think the reward is worth the risk and that is an individual decision. That is the cold reality that often is only realized after the risk occurs as seems to be the situation with PocketFisherman.

Herpes 2 (HSV-2) is part of the complex family of herpes viruses. More than 1 out of 5 Americans have genital herpes. Herpes is more common among women than men. More than 20 to 25% of pregnant women are diagnosed with herpes.

http://www.herpesclinic.com/genitalherpes/genitalherpesstatistics.htm

In the hobby people should not have any genital to genital contact without protection. Unfortunately, yours occured during an equipment failure.

There is no cure for herpes but anitvirals such as valtrex and famivir are used to treat it.

Herpevac, a vaccine for HSV-2 is currently (as of February 2007) undergoing clinical testing in women in the United States and Canada. Previous studies have determined that this vaccine is approximately 70% effective in women, but does not prevent the disease in men.

I wish you well and hopefully people will learn from your experience and will educate themselves about herpes.  

You do not get herpes 2 genital from a blowjob you get herpes 1 . This is a great forum.Real doctors.

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/STD/wwwboard.html

I did date about 12 different civies way back when, but only had unprotected intercourse with six.

Why you don't count NSU as a bonafide STD I don't know but let me tell you it stings like a bastard.  I could't pee for about four days until the anitbiotics kicked in.

I'll let each draw their own conclusion about comparing protected sex with a provider with the unprotected sex with the civies.

Perhaps I have HPV, perhaps I don't.  If I am not bothered by it, I don't consider it an STD.

“Why you don't count NSU as a bonafide STD I don't know but let me tell you it stings like a bastard.  I could't pee for about four days until the anitbiotics kicked in.”

NSU stands for Non-specific urethritis (another name for a urinary tract infection).  The reason it is called non-specific is that it has several causes you cannot be certain that it was a result of sexual contact like gonorrhea.

“Perhaps I have HPV, perhaps I don't.  If I am not bothered by it, I don't consider it an STD.”

A unique and selfish definition for STD. Are you not concern about what you may transmit to your lady friends?  HPV infection may not be so benign for men also. HPV is linked to penile and anal cancers in men.  There is increasing reports of a linkage of HPV infection resulting from oral sex with oral cancers (google  “HPV oral cancer”).

“I did date about 12 different civies way back when, but only had unprotected intercourse with six…….I'll let each draw their own conclusion about comparing protected sex with a provider with the unprotected sex with the civies.”

My friend if you used protection with the 6 civvies you probably never would have gotten gonorrhea or NSU from the sexual contact.  Condoms are 95+ percent effective against these STDs

Finally, there is a reason why we cover-up in this hobby and the ladies feel necessary to get tested as frequently as monthly or quarterly  and it not because we think our partner in this hobby are STD free and our risk are small.

Seeing professional providers ensures that one will only have safe sex, as opposed to pick ups in bars, etc.

Speaking for myself, but I think others will agree, it is always tempting to practice unsafe sex, especially if a little alcohol enters the picture.

I haven't had any symptoms whatsoever from the Herpes, but it must be considered an STD by any reasonable definition.  It seems that many people carry it symptom free for years with no idea that they even have it, but they can still be contagious.


"Perhaps I have HPV, perhaps I don't.  If I am not bothered by it, I don't consider it an STD."

My friend you just demonstrated that your 30 year old past experience is not relevant to the question of the relative safety of Providers versus Civivies The reason is that you are comparing UNPROTECTED Civvie sex 30 years ago with more recent PROTECTED Provider sex.  With respect to gonorrhea it can shown that risk was at least 60 times greater for unprotected sex 30 years ago than for protected sex today regardless of whether the partners were Civvies or Providers. So if you are still STD free after having protected sex with 350 Providers you may have the beginning of an argument. By my count you have 200 more to go. It is you who is unsafe because you have no self-control and must depend on the mutual fear of you and the Provider of getting and STDs from each to practice safer sex.   Now what point does that validate!

-- Modified on 3/9/2008 3:58:05 AM

HPV is a different STD than HSV-2.  Both like many other STDs can be a asymptomatic and still contagious and using Mr Fisher unique definition may not be consider an STD by some.

There is a group of provider, numbering about eight or so, that I see regularly for periods of at least four and in one case almost twenty years.

Not one of them has shown any evidence of a STD nor mentioned anything to me about it, despite the fact that we share a lot of intimate details with each other.

This is why I said that as far as I can tell, I am STD free, though I'll grant you that I could harbor some non-evident condion.

LOL, that is fine with me!  However I do wonder why you cherry picked your experience by selecting only the 6 unprotected civvies sex partners that resulted in one bona fide STD to compare to protected provider sex to make your point.  This is especially so since you had an equally number (6) of protective civvies sex partners resulting in no STDs to compare with protective provider sex?  I think most savvy readers know that to say Provider sex is safer than Civvie sex you must have substantial more Civiee experience than you apparently have and the comparison must be between equal levels of protection or non protection for STDs.  

-- Modified on 3/9/2008 11:10:47 PM

Many ladies will be reluctant to reveal such information for fear it will negatively impact their practice.  I believe the following statement by Pocketfisherman who started this thread is also applicable to many Providers

“I do have to wonder though, how prevalent Herpes is in the hobby.  I know several hobbyists who have it but are afraid to admit it openly (can you just hear the stampede of ladies running to add me to their "do not see" list?).”

More to the point, 8 out of 160 Providers you have seen is a very small select subpopulation.  What about the other 150+ Providers you have seen?  Others have correctly stated in this thread that HSV-2 prevalence is 25% and therefor the probability that at least one of your select eight Providers has HSV-2 is 90%, and that just one STD.  I have not been with as many providers as you (certainly less than 30 in 30 years) and several confided in me that they have or have had Herpes, Chlamydia, Gonorrhea and cervical dysplasia.


-- Modified on 3/9/2008 11:18:41 PM