I know, this might be the wrong Board, and if it is, I am sure I will be corrected, but I would like to know the difference; other the obvious.

  Why do ladies charge less for a massage (even with a happy eneding), than a courtesan who offers FS?  Time is time: correct?

  Many gentlemen have contacted me, asking me what my gift is for massage, and I do not know why it should be less.  I would still be providing a relaxing atmosphere, candles, soft music, offering the gentleman a beverage of his choice (okay-no Louis XIII), shower facilities, with fluffy bathrobes, etc.  Whether the date is FS or massage, I still have sheets and towels to wash, dishes to clean up, etc.

  I am hoping to learn something new, so please let me know your thoughts, without being condescending.  I truly would appreciate your thoughts.

Hugs and Kisses,
Kelly

The physical work and effort put in by you. For a massage you only have to touch me with your hands (something I still don't envy you). But with FS you are using a few more parts of your body to put it mildly. You are also going to get more tired or sore between a BJ, HJ, CG, Doggy, ect.. then you would with just a massage.

So yes, when you think of all your effort outside of the actual act it is similar, but when you think of the effort of the act, you should see a clear difference.

In addition, with FS a massage is often an option if you want it. So most guys wouldn't understand paying the same thing for everything as they would for one part of everything.

Does that make any sense?

You can say that the "donation is for time and nothing else - whatever happens between two consenting adults is blah blah blah blah" until you actually start to believe it, which seems to be the case with many people, but men are paying for sex. Yeah, I know, that's illegal. Maybe that's why we came up with the whole "paying for time" line in the first place, eh?

Sex, meaning the illusion of having sex with someone who at least cares about you a little - if not for you as a person, then who cares that you have a rocking violent orgasm or three.

I understand that your fees are based on your own needs and sense of what you are worth, but they are also based on WHAT YOU CAN GET. And you can get more for sex than for a backrub, even if it does include rubbing more than just the back. In general, men will pay more for sex than for a backrub.

I am also aware that some men sometimes just WANT a backrub, some men don't want the increased level of intimacy that comes with a "GFE" experience, and some men just want to talk and to be held. I understand that. But as far as the market is concerned, I'd have to guess that MORE men want sex than not.

So another way of looking at it is that you are not charging LESS for a massage session, you are charging MORE for a sex session.

IMO

For obvious reasons...

Sticking your dick into the lady is more personal than getting a massage from her. So it is but natural for the lady to ask for more money, and guys will be willing to pay the top dollar.. Who is going to go to a hooker to get a massage when you can get the same legally at a spa.

We pay for sexual acts that we cannot get outside.

Funny thing, I used to play online games a bit many years ago. It was against the terms of service on the games to sell your account or of course to buy an account. And on every auction you would see for one there was always a disclaimer that you are paying for the time invested into the building of the account and not the account itself.

The first time I essentially saw the same disclaimer on a working girls web site I could not help but laugh out a loud a little. Not to be disrespectful of anyone or anything they do, but I seriously doubt that there has ever been a day in court where a lady was standing in front of a judge for prostitution and just before he passed judgement the lady said, but Your Honor! my website clearly states that he was paying for my time! That 350lb man sitting over there with the cucumber in his butt and condom wrapper stuck between the folds of his skin and I were having sex because we just got lost in the moment! Honest!

-- Modified on 2/11/2013 2:53:43 PM

Kelly, time is not the only factor. Two attorneys, one with six months experience and puts 30 hours into a case and one attorney with 20 years experience puts 30 hours into a case. Both put the same "time" in right? With all other factors being even, whose bill is proly going to be much larger? Now that example is based on why experience/perceived quality affects price.

Here is how supply and demand affects it. Virtually all women in the biz will provide massage services but much fewer will provide fs. The demand is higher for fs while the supply of ladies providing it is lower than that for fbsm. Therefore, more money for fs ladies.

Obviously, agree that fs should cost more than massage..... But many ladies say time is so important that they want the same rate having a drink as providing msog fs......?  If massage is easier than fs,  isn't sitting at a bar even easier?  Massage only lady likely charges less,  but if you see an fs provider,  I'd expect to pay full rate, even if requesting less than full service.

I can spend $80 and get a deep tissue massage from someone with 34 certifications.  A pro at what she does.  

It costs over a $100 to get a light touch massage and happy ending in our neck of the woods.  

That said, I would expect the lady who will let me cum in her mouth to charge quite a bit more than a lady who is going to give me a light touch massage and a hand job.  

In the end, a lady can charge whatever they like.  But I bet a FBSM provider in the Twin Cities who charged $250-$300 would hear nothing but crickets!

I would not charge a guy a premium rate for just a 10 min. bj, but damn right I will for gfe with msog. I think you are looking at more at a service charge vs. a time charge. I had a debate with a guy not long ago who thought he should get msog for his big $150 from a massage provider...I disagreed. If he is lucky enough to find an FBSM provider who does do msog for that cheap, he is very lucky, because in THAT instance time is time. If we are talking just one service, I could see discounting that, but not for an entire 2 hours of freaking oral on him and not shit for her.

My mouth can go all damn day, and I could EASILY see 10 guys for a 10 min. bj each, but fs? Hell no...my vagina is more sensitive than my mouth, and it can't take much at all. Same with anal...I charge 200 extra just for that, and not because I don't like it, but because I can lol.

-- Modified on 2/11/2013 6:59:33 PM

Regardless of what a FS provider does with the time spent with a client, even it is just chatting, in theory she -could- be doing FS with someone else, so the rate stays the same. It's actually not that simple; some FS providers explicitly state a "public time" rate and many more do that implicitly. This basically comes from the fact that there's an upper limit to the hours in a day that anyone can spend having sex.

Still, that's why time with a FS provider is more than with any FBSM provider regardless of how you spend the time; it's what they could be doing instead. (I bet there's a fancy term economists have for this, but I don't know it...)

Xray;
  Good point. I believe the term you referenced is "cost of opportunity"  Regards....RR

Sorry to make it so blunt, but I am perplexed that you find it this hard to grasp.

Time is not time.  If you are forced to be fucked nonstop in the ass for 60 minutes, how is that not different from a relaxing massage with a short handjob at the end?

the clients.
They would be missing out on higher potential earnings if they did something else with their time (like flipping burgers at McDonald's for minimum wage).

The value of the service is based on the supply and demand of that service only.
Has nothing to do with other skills or talents a person may have.

Many of the GUYS here are highly trained pros in their field.
But if they tried to switch jobs to one with a lower market value, they'd be subject to the prevailing wages for that job, not the high salary they are used to.

This is all very basic economics.

Or look at it this way - if it was all just about time irrespective of service, then, guys hourly work rates should be deducted from the equation, because when guys are with the women this means they are not at work earning $ (THEIR opportunity cost).

Now of course, I understand that there are plenty of nice side dishes (massage, smiles of a beautiful lady, flattery, convo) that come with the main dish (sex).  Those are all nice and certainly help make the overall experience great.  But without that main dish, you don't have a meal!  And who would go to a Morton's and pay the price for a top-of-the-line-steak, only to settle for a baked potato and some green beans?  Nobody that I know.

Yes, we're paying for X amount of time.
The "quality" of the time is different.

I am not experienced when it comes to massage.  

  I understand, that if a gentleman wants a massage, on a table, with a happy ending, that is one thing, but if a gentlaman wants a body to body massage on a bed, why should the gift be less?

  I truly do, only visit with a two to three gentlemen per week, so I do not have to worry about too much wear on my body.  When I travel, maybe two per day.

  Thank you, Curly, for going a bit easy on me!

Hugs and Kisses,
Kelly

Thank you.  I should have been more clear in my post.  I have never offered massage only dates, but recently, I have had a lot of requests for body to body massage.

  I understand that if I were to perform a massage, on a table, then yes, I can understand charging less, but if a gentleman wants body to body, with either a hand or mouth happy ending, then the gift should be the same; right?

  Yes, I am an experienced courtesan, but a newbie at massage only dates.  Thank you for your input.

Hugs and Kisses,
Kelly

Sorry to be blunt back, but I would not f*** any gentleman for 60 minutes straight-lol.

As I mentioned in my other replies, I should have been more detail oriented.  I was not talking about a massage on a table, with a hand job ending.  I was referring to a gentleman who wants body to body on a bed, with a hand, or mouth happy ending.  Yes, I agree, a massage on a table should be less.

Hugs and Kisses,
Kelly

Using your logic, then why not just allow a guy to do whatever he wants to you during that time?  Is everything open for business and on the table during that hour he is with you?

Or does the "it's all about the time" argument only go in your favor?

Just curious, because I don't really see your logic here.

Bottom line...your body, your rate. If he goes to a gfe provider and wants a massage rate, I think that's his problem. It's not what you normally do and your rates are set to provider GFE, so either tell him the rate is the same, or see a massage provider. That's what I would do. If a guy just wanted a bj, I would be more than willing to discount that for a regular, but if I am still doing a full 2 hours, the rate will be for gfe.

From you I would say yes it could possibly be the same. But on the other hand you are putting then no value on GFE, intercourse, kissing, ect.. If you think of your menu as a GFE full service hour with a fixed price...and then you remove a few items from that menu and put the same price tag on it. What you have done is completely devalued the items that you removed. Just something to keep in mind.

In my view, no different than kissing, cuddling, touching...  foreplay.  I would not change your rate.

I hadn't really thought of the difference between FS escorting and erotic massage in those terms, but it makes sense - the provider is maintaining a location, spending the same time with the client. Why shouldn't the rate be the same?

From my perspective, though, it makes much more sense to have a different rate. Yes, I'm paying for a provider's time, but to a degree, I'm also paying for a provider's consent. When I see a FS provider, there's a wide range of things we might do with our time, though I accept that each provider has her own set of boundaries and limits. When I go to a DIY massage provider, I already know that some things are off-limits there that wouldn't necessarily be off-limits for a FS provider, and in a sense, the lower rate reinforces that - because I'm paying less for the provider's time, I accept that there are greater limits on what we might do together. That's what I mean by 'consent'.

Hope that makes sense.

--
Pauper

I think that was well stated. The problem is, not all guys approach it like you do. They want a cheap rate and in addition expect GFE activities for that cheaper rate...not happening. That is why I am floored when I hear about FBSM providers offering MSOG for less than 200...why? You're still working for the same amount of time, regardless of what you're doing. A full hour of oral with NO break, is a hell of a lot harder than an hour gfe date when the girl gets to lay down for 15 min. whilst getting daty, and has a break again when he needs to recharge after his first pop. I would say "JUST MASSAGE" with NO sexual contact, might not garner a higher rate, but massage with oral and msog? Hmm, I would never do it.