His successful argument was that he used his American Express Card to pay for a prostitute. So, about half your post is irrelevant. I was not recommending any sort of action. And it is not a prank, nor any sort of game. I was just communicating some things I'd heard about a few years ago. Geez. These posts by lawyers on TER are wild!! The fine for the crime the guy confessed to was way less than the money he saved when he refused to pay his bill. Misdemeanor $2000 fine tops. He had nothing to hide. They told his mother. But she didn't believe them. Sorry to have been put on trial. LOL
In the area that I live I see far too many agencies and independents offering payment by credit card. To me this just sounds stupid and leaves both of you exposed. Maybe I am just ignorant and don't understand.
I am just seeing this as a paper trail for LE and others to follow. It just seems like a risk that is totally unneccessary. Will someone please shed some light on this subject? I would definitely like to hear from those who use a credit card.
I don't use a credit card, but this is a documented occurance, which may be of some interest: A few years ago, in Maryland, a guy who had nothing to hide from anyone went on a credit card binge with agencies-- used his American Express Card. He refused to pay American Express, arguing that contracts for illegal services are not enforceable in Maryland. American Express litigated. He won.
That sounds very interesting and i'd be really curious to read about it.
But I wouldn't recommend trying to repeat it for four reasons. First, although it is true that a conract for an illegal activity is unenforceable, Amex was not a party to anything illegal. They legally allowed use of a credit card and their card holder used it. Amex would not normally be likely to lose out in a claim against a cardholder who used his own card - regardless of what he used it for. What they could do to someone's credit history for even trying this is a whole 'nother reason not to bother trying to copy this prank. Second, the one who MIGHT have a hard time collecting is the agency - IF the guy was able to prove that the agreement was solely for an unlawful act. But the agency would argue the guy purchased time. I am sure they have ads saying as much. I expect they would win that fight. In fact, if the opposite occurred - the agency charged for a "date" and no sex took place and the guy sued for a refund - the agency would definitely win, regardless of promises or representations made by them. He could not get a refund because they refused to do something unlawful. Third, by claiming an unlawful act occurred and he should not have to pay for it, cardholder just confessed to a crime. It is possible it would not matter if the statute of limitations on the criminal activity passed before the confession, but, if not, he could be in some serious trouble playing this game. Finally, the one who would get cheated here for sure is the lady. That ain't right.
His successful argument was that he used his American Express Card to pay for a prostitute. So, about half your post is irrelevant. I was not recommending any sort of action. And it is not a prank, nor any sort of game. I was just communicating some things I'd heard about a few years ago. Geez. These posts by lawyers on TER are wild!! The fine for the crime the guy confessed to was way less than the money he saved when he refused to pay his bill. Misdemeanor $2000 fine tops. He had nothing to hide. They told his mother. But she didn't believe them. Sorry to have been put on trial. LOL
First of all, I agree it is not right to cheat the lady.
The classic example of illegal debt is one incurred via gambling, where gambling is illegal. Those type debts are not enforceable throught the courts. If the activity that incurred the debt is illegal, the the debt is not enforceable.
Note: this applies if the debt is owed to the party providing the illegal activity. If you draw on your home equity line, and gamble the cash illegally, then that is your problem.
With the credit cards, there is a tie between you and the merchant, which allows the dispute (charge-back). Technically, the credit card company is buying the debt that you owe to the merchant.
Personally, I don't think the merchant would fight a charge-back as you have described. They have more to loose by ending up in court (exposing the entire business). I would be more afraid of Guido showing up one day and rearranging your knee caps.
NEVER EVER pay with plastic. Paper trail obvious reason but they could double or triple charge you, or worse, & what's your recourse? I've been in banking biz for mumblesomething years. Never use plastic to hobby.
I agree, but even more so I don't want to sign up for anyhting on the internet requiring me to pay either. How do I get money into an account which can be used to pay for subscriptions yet not have it directly linked back to me?
the answer is simple .... some ladies want to make it as easy as possible for us to get into their pants .. so they take the risk not knowing or caring too much about the problems that can arise .... I used one once many years ago NEVER again ....lol....
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