Newbie - FAQ

Re: Try things in reverse....
BaalHammon 2000 reads
posted
1 / 12

Well, I'm posting this in hopes of sorting some stuff out. Right now, I'm a 22 year old guy that has not gotten any action; no kissing, no oral, no nothing. I haven't even been on a date. I've had a few opportunities though, not many, but a few. But I just wasn't into the girls.

I'm a pretty basic looking guy according to the woman-folk, so I'm not hot, but not ugly either (5/10). So I can't just attract a woman with my looks alone (a point which will make more sense after reading the next few lines). As far as the personality component of the attraction package, I'm definetly lacking. I'm not such a good socializer; I'm a bit autistic and have a very hard time making small talk. Usually I am only able to comfortably speak about subjects a bit too academic for a general audience.

I've been to a few parties before, and a few girls showed interest, but I basically killed the deal when I just drew a blank about what to say. It seems like the only real opportunities that have presented themselves are with girls in the unattrative range, but like I said before, I just can't get excited about such prospects.

Can one go through life just hiring prostitutes to perpetuate a fantasy and avoid confronting the harsh reality that they can't get laid by an attrative woman in a normal setting? Life would primarily consist of making lots of money to spend on hookers, I suppose: which could be a good or a bad thing; I am not sure. Or should I give it some time before hiring a girl for pleasure, and continue to navigate the real world in hopes of finding a pretty girl that likes me?

Sorry for such a longwinded question. Maybe I am just putting too much thought into all of this: trying to rationalize horniness, which isn't all that rational in the grand scheme of things. Or maybe I am confronting something that should be extensively pondered. Thanks for your input.

Eden Roc 1 Reviews 972 reads
posted
2 / 12

First, dating civie girls for free is not exactly free and can get rather expensive as some formerly married men on the GD Board can state.

Take the plunge and see a few escorts. Identify a few and maybe schedule them for dinner dates if you can afford it. In the process, use them as "guinea pigs" and practice your social skills by trying to talk about different topics, starting conversations and such. It is also ok to ask them for tips and advice like dressing, icy breakers, pickup lines and such. Just don't fall in love with them and remember it is pay for play.

One provider told me, picking up a girl is all about confidence and most girls pick up on that in a hurry.

I am still young and my predominant source of pleasure is seeing escorts and I love it. I was 19 or 20 when I saw my first escort and still a virgin. She was hot, brunette, 18, natural 36d's and I wouldn't change a thing.

I would advice against trying to go your entire life seeing only escorts. I would at least try to date a civie woman or score some free sex every once in a while and let the chips fall where they may. Never sell yourself short and date or have sex with a woman you are not attracted to just for the sake of doing so.

Have fun!

trex44 9 Reviews 767 reads
posted
3 / 12

...they can be acquired by consistent practice and mindful application of the basic principles. Plenty of good books on the subject, join ToastMasters and basically *practice* like crazy with no agenda other than getting to know someone and making conversation.

Do NOT confuse this "hobby" with real life -- keep them compartmentalized and separate; that's what the envelope is for. Yes, you might have some challenges (all of us do) but you will hopefully have many years to overcome them. Apply yourself, live your life and have some fun -- the female part of the equation will sort itself out when the time is right.

Speaking as someone who was a virgin until I was 22 and am still a work in progress -- a few decades later. Enjoy the ride --

shudaknownbetter 837 reads
posted
4 / 12

I have to say that it can be useful to "hobby" in that it gives you some confidence along the way.  
Be careful not to fall for a provider  "YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!!"  It is remarkably easy to do.  It is hormonal.  

Be very careful.  If you decide to "hobby" you must know that this is a secret life.  You must never tell anyone, outside of these boards.  Not your brother, your best friend, your buddy, and cetainly no girl you date.  You do not want to leave tracks...  that can come back to haunt you later.  If you find yourself in a relationship, you can shut the hobby off anytime you choose.      

If you fall in Love and are contemplating marriage you reveal that you've had other girlfriends.  Never say how many.  "Gentlemen don't keep score."  You never say how long they were your girlfriends for.  
You will need a separate hobby phone...  a separate secure email account.  

Usually escorts will be quite willing to engage in conversation during your time together...  she's paid for the time so don't try to cheat her (ok to talk over if she encourages it but even then keep it reasonable).  The confidence you gain will make it easier to approach women.  Also the knowledge that if you strike out, tomorrow you can hobby & enjoy yourself...  you're no longer despirate.

I'd have been much better off to have hobbied during certain periods in my life than to the relationships that bankrupted me emotionally as well as monetarily.

Do not ignore the opportunities to approach women... to just converse, to socialize.  Work up to asking for coffee dates or lunch dates...  low stress.  

Best Wishes,
skb

hiddenhills 143 Reviews 698 reads
posted
5 / 12
mrfisher 112 Reviews 833 reads
posted
6 / 12

but I think the question you mean to ask is SHOULD I go through life like that.

Unfortunately, only you can answer that one.

I would suggest a good counselor/psychotherapist to talk to regarding what issues you should be working on to find satisfaction in life.

I did so when I was around your age and it really opened my life up.

In the meantime, seeing providers can have a positive effect on your social abilities, sort of like training wheels, so don't be afraid to indulge a bit.

We all crawl before we can walk.

sweetamanda See my TER Reviews 694 reads
posted
7 / 12

I'm an introvert myself and have definitely battled with social anxiety as well. In fact, one of the reasons I got into "the hobby" was to help me with my social skills... and it's definitely worked. I'm no social butterfly by any means, but I am certainly far more able to converse and socialize than I used to be (I'm pretty darned good at it now, in fact, at least when it comes to one-on-one. I still don't like groups so much). Most of those skills came from sheer practice.

I'm guessing you're an INTP (or INTJ) on the Myers-Briggs. If you are, I suggest reading up on INTxs and then reading on other personality types. Lots of folks discount the MBTI, but I've found it really helpful in 1) learning about myself, 2) learning that I'm not alone or "weird" because I'm not extroverted 3) learning about other people and how to relate to them.

I highly recommend reading some books on small talk. I like to get into deep discussions too, but knowing how to make small talk is a great skill to have- not everyone wants deep discussions, and even among those who do you usually have to lead up to those somehow.

As for drawing a blank about what to say, as you said happened in those situations, here's the key: have things lined up to talk about BEFORE you go into those situations. This goes back to learning how to make small talk, and learning how to keep a conversation flowing.

You don't have to spend your whole life (or any part of it) with escorts, but finding a few really awesome ones could possibly be beneficial. We tend to be pretty non-judgmental and some of us are pretty good at making you come out of your shell ;) Join Toastmasters, read some books on small talk and socializing, and hire some companions to practice those social skills on and to keep you company in the interim. Good luck!

Rickshaw17 28 Reviews 1098 reads
posted
8 / 12

There are some beautiful women out there who love smart (nerdy) guys.  You just haven't met the right one yet.  Hang out in a medical school or lawschool library, for example.  You'll be surprised how many really attractive, intelligent, women are out there. Go to the Starbucks nearest an academic center or medical center and talk to some of these women.  Some may really be attacted to an intelligent, articuilate, genuine guy who seems interested in them and what they do versis simply jumping into bed at the first available opportunity.  

If you find an attractive woman lounging at Starbucks, glance at the books she is carrying or reading. Start a conversation on a related topic.  Ask questions about her interests and build those into a conversation.  Take a "no guts no glory attitude".  Rejection won't kill you.  Quit trying to avoid it.  Women like confidence (ie: not necessarily cockiness).  Be interested but not deperate.  No one likes some desperate, clingy, guy.  Just be yourself and relax till the right woman comes along.  It can take some time, but it will happen eventually.  

By the way, there are many extremely intelligent providers, some of whom are working their way toward advanced degrees, but it seems you are looking for a genuine civvie relationship.  

Anyway... Good lluck

Rumpled4Skin 602 reads
posted
9 / 12


Some great advice in here.  Also, don't sell yourself short.  Women, contrary to common myth, have needs just like men.  One of them is to be entertained/appreciated by men.  In other words, you don't have to be the perfect guy, the one they are going to marry, or an idyllic prince charming before you approach them.  After all a coffee invitation isn't a marriage proposal.  Do some affirmations and convince yourself that you'll be good entertainment, that's all you need to be.  At starbux don't be afraid to let yourself get 'caught' admiring a cute woman.  Once you are busted, you can say hello with a little embarrasement on your face... you are already busted, so you might as well say hi.  As a shy guy of modest appearance myself I have used this process to date a couple of women who were way prettier than I deserved to be with.

tallyguy 4 Reviews 528 reads
posted
10 / 12

I know a couple of people here suggested joining Toastmasters, and that is a great idea.  You sound like someone who has Aspbergers, am I correct?  TM will help you get over your shyness, and improve your communication skills.  Not to mention those clubs also have girls.  Kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.

rkl 22 Reviews 5014 reads
posted
11 / 12

There are a number of ways to approach your situation (which have been mentioned above).  I would add, or reemphasize, that you're not alone.  Although we may not be the most visible segment of the male (or female) population, there are plenty of us who share your situation.  Many of the normal strategies of meeting and developing a relationship with other people don't work well for us.  Providers, in this sense, are a literal godsend.  An appointment with a provider is a transaction we can understand.  There are upfront rules.  There is a well-defined cost and a specific product.  There is a scheme, or a script, that one follows (or departs from) during the encounter.  In other words, for people who like structure and security, there is a lot more of it than during the civie relationship (of course, there is often less spontaneity, freedom, connection, etc.).  

But the hobby is also highly addictive (in part because it doesn't take the same effort, and good results are consistently achievable if you do your homework) and it's an addiction that I think is more easily borne by someone who has already established himself in a career.  Starting as a young guy requires prudence.

I would definitely advise seeing a provider to get yourself over certain romantic hurdles.  For each of my early appointments with providers, I would actually figure out some objectives and I viewed the sessions as learning opportunities.  I was upfront about my intentions with these women and chose them more for how they presented themselves (as considerate, mature) than for physical attractiveness.  Within a couple of sessions my confidence grew so that I no longer saw myself as a pariah.  

So, good providers can offer a different solace than a civie relationship, and they are absolutely wonderful as compared to dwelling in relative isolation.  Frankly, I'm not someone who will probably ever acquire or even seek a lifelong partner, and for me providers are the perfect complement to the social and intellectual stimulation I find at work and with my average-looking-and-somewhat-aged friends.

yoyoma78 1504 reads
posted
12 / 12

I am a young-ish hobbyist (first time happened when I was 20...still under 30) and I say go for it.  Part of growing up is figuring out who you are and what matters most to you.  Frankly, not everyone is naturally wired to have a long-term civie relationship or be overly personable.  It sounds as if you have trouble interacting with people.  You should ask yourself, is it because you're shy and need more experience or because you really don't care about making people feel good around you?  My guess is that if you really wanted to have a lot of women in your life you'd find ways to improve your personality.  You'd also find ways to play to your strengths (ie dating women who have similar serious academic interests instead of going to random parties and seeking out the hottest girl you can find).  The fact that you haven't implies that you don't really want to be "laid by an attractive woman in a normal setting" right now.  So figuring out what you want is the first step.

The hobby is beneficial because it helps you along the process of self-discovery.  This is perhaps the only "dating" environment where the man is in control of the situation.  It's easier to learn more about yourself when you hobby than when you are barhopping in search of a one-night stand.  When you hobby, it's just you and her in the room and she is giving you her full attention.  This makes it easier for you to figure out what makes her happy, how to ask for things, and how to improve the session so that both parties have fun.  The lack of real world distractions helps you leave the session with takeaways that are actually useful.  When you barhop, a lady may turn you down for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with you - her friend is too drunk and needs to go home, her friends don't like your friends, she has a flight to catch the next morning, etc.  What conclusions can you draw from that experience?  Not good ones.

As others have posted, the hobby makes you a better lover and more patient when seeking mates in the real world.  Because I have this outlet, I now only date ladies that I really have a connection with and match what I'm looking for.  But more importantly, I now know exactly why I'm dating instead of doing it because my friends are.

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