Hi Ladies and Gents. I am a newbie doing some pre date research. I am concerned about possible LE traps, especially after the CL spot light with that alleged creep in the news. How active is LE toward the discrete trade? Does the TV thing of getting a provider (or client) to state they have no LE affiliation actually protect you? I understand the importance of the donation being for company only and never to be specific. Thanks in advance.

The only advice I have is see only providers that are well-reviewed.

...they're allowed to lie!

CL is supposedly crawling with cops after the recent attacks...I suspect they're more interested in providers than clients, as that's the way it usually is, but I'd guess they're targeting both...

I heard a LE guy on the news saying "we need to arrest prostitutes to protect them, it's for their own good".  Paternalism's a bitch.

As for the "discrete trade", you're probably a lot safer...I doubt LE is setting up fake profiles on Eros--not at 100-175$ a month...even if they could place the ad for free, they just aren't going to catch the volume of clients they can trap on CL or the other high-volume sites.

As a newbie, you should never see an unreviewed provider.  Having said that, solictation laws only apply when you inquire about specific services that is sexual favors but to avoid that, make certain that you know what service you want.  Also join a verification service such as date-check, P411 or RS2K.  If you do this, you won't have to worry about LE

spend the $20 for VIP so you can read the details in the reviews.  Don't go by the profile page.  Happy hobbying.

But let me say this, most LE look for underage girls, in which I agree with.

risk by following the advice of the other posters to this tread, but, one thing that seems to be common in almost every LE sting is that, at some point, either in email, on the phone, or in-person is that the subect of some sort of specific sex act and money comes up in the same sentence.  If you hear that, it's time to go.

While I am *not* a law enforcement officer (of course, if I were, I'd be allowed to lie and say I wasn't, so you never know), I incidentally know a lot about this.

I can tell you that asking someone if they are LE is a dangerous myth. In many cases, the FAILURE of LE to lie in that circumstance is, in and of itself, a crime. They MUST lie to you or be charged with a crime themselves.

Furthermore, if you are under any form of surveillance, the associated phone/internet or housing providers are barred from informing you of that surveillance. It is a crime to inform you.

Do not believe, for one moment, that there is any single question you can ask of anyone to determine whether or not they are LE. (Unless you use enhanced interrogation techniques as part of your screening process.)

In addition, as certain things may constitute a form of "organized crime," non-Law Enforcement informers are often used.

If, for example, I were trying to end hobbying from the demand side; I would find a popular and highly reviewed lady and lean on her -- hard. I'd get an indictment on a host of things (ridiculously easy) and have her looking at 1,000 years behind bars for starters; then have her agree to have all of her work videotaped for a month as she provided all phone and email records. In exchange for her cooperation, the charges would be dropped and then the arrests of prominent businessmen and politicians would begin ...

You are never, ever, safe if you are engaged in anything that might even be misconstrued to be illegal.

I know a man who has politically incorrect views. You can't be put in jail for your thoughts directly (yet), but LE can be creative. Early in life, he was charged with a misdemeanor for theft and served a year in jail.

Later on -- 10 years later -- he was put in jail for five years for being a "felon in possession of a firearm," even though he had never been convicted of a felony. The rationale was that, as his misdemeanor COULD have resulted in a sentence of longer than a year, it should count as a felony for purposes of interpreting federal law. The feds spent over a million dollars following the guy around, and in the end, that's the best case they could make.

He simply agreed to the charges rather than fight, because the prosecutors told him that if he dared to take it to trial, they would charge his wife with "conspiracy" and his kids would end up wards of the state while husband and wife rotted in jail waiting for a trial. (Bob Barr, recent libertarian candidate for President, was his defense attorney. The man is now out of jail and working as a personal trainer.)

I also know a guy who is an organic farmer who was charged with "animal cruelty" for killing rabbits that were raised for food and making an instructional video of the process. This was also because of his opinions, but he managed to beat the charges after thousands of dollars in legal bills. The indictment was secured by calling his livestock a "pet bunny." Just a little twist, but legally significant.

This is the bottom line: if LE wants you bad enough, they will get you. They can lie, pressure, cut deals, twist laws and all kinds of stuff. Maybe, MAYBE, you can secure justice if you have enough thousands to spend on lawyers.

The one thing I have learned, in general, is that the nail that sticks up gets hammered down. If you want to avoid this sort of thing, don't be blatant. Don't be in their face. Don't defy them openly.

Millions of Americans (including many politicians) cheat on their taxes with no consequences. Irwin Schiff published a book and website advertising the fact he didn't pay taxes and even ran seminars. He was a nail that was sticking up, was in their faces and defied them openly. He also went to the slammer.

Don't be Irwin Schiff.

Some people in the business do sound cockey when it comes to never getting caught and how not to get caught -probably myself included but I would not write a book about ny career as a hobbyist either.

johngaltnh has a great post in this thread, so I don't have much to add to his, and I'm a n00b hobbyist myself, but in my day job I do have some contact with LE... local police, sheriff, and even FBI.  

While I find most cops are pretty decent, most everyone (LE or otherwise) has a little bit of self-righteousness about them, which can get amplified when put in a position of authority.  Some of it is good (many take pride in their work like I do), some of it is not (I'm sure some make it more than it should be).

So in that regard, I agree with the sentiments about just laying low - just don't give anyone (LE or otherwise) a reason to look you (and her) up.  Even if you're a regular client seeing a regular provider, don't get lax and put each other at risk by drawing the neighbors/hotel staff/whomever's attention.  Even people who might generally look the other way at this activity may call the police if they think you're some homicidal weirdo.  Keep a low profile and when not together, keep information exchange to only that which is necessary to arrange meetings.  Email is not secure and I don't assume this board is either.

At the same time, though, just as you might feel "overworked and underpaid" in your job, most LE feel the same thing.  So just as I do in my job, I'm going to pursue easy wins, which means:
1. Low hanging fruit- i.e. where it's fast and easy... for LE that'd be where the case is pretty much done for me ("open and shut")
2. Cases that "set an example"... where I can get a lot of political publicity (for LE, that's media attention) - because that lets *me* get more power and resources.  As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, rings involving organized crime and victims below the age of consent definitely fits that bill.  Or if you're going after the governor of New York...

Vice squads need to justify their existence and budgets and they have a lot on their plate.  So in that context, I'd think setting up a sting just to catch an independent provider and a few clients is a pretty expensive resource vs return proposition.  A lot of times, they're just trying to manage the situation, not trying to shut it down.

I'd actually worry a lot more if they changed the law so that if found guilty, instead of jail time you got automatic $10K+ fines levied against your paycheck for getting caught, because in this economy and era of state & municipal budget cuts, that would incentivize LE to start pursuing it more.

In my line of work, I end up with working with LE from time to time, but unless I have very solid suspect information (name, address, etc), which is rare, they'll be happy to listen to me cry about the crimes I report (which are far more severe and costly to society than discreet providers giving services to discreet customers) but do nothing about it in terms of investigation.

In the end, members of LE are people too.  For that matter, a recent (2008) study by Freaknomics related professors showed that a street walker in Chicago gets arrested something like every 425 tricks and is more likely to have sex with a cop than to be arrested by one.

It is a word game at first. Definatelty never give money for sex, give money for time and massage only. If you pay for a massage, get a massage, and after the massage wild human impulse takes over, thats different, but comtracting for sex acts is illegal. So even though you both know whats up, the conversation should play out something like this......
"here is the donation for the massage and your time"
thanks
-Massage-
Provider: "that completes your massage, and what your donation covered, you can leave if you like, but if you like to stick around, I happen to be in a highly sexual mood, and am very attracted to you, you do not need to pay me for anything we do from this point on."
"that sounds great, I am very aroused myself, and accept the invitation to stay on personal unpaid time"
There s no law broken there.