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Re: Conclusion - risk is pretty damned low
carndakine 11 Reviews 660 reads
posted

With respect London, I disagree.  This data is not based on secret surveys, but rather epidemiological estimates based on observed data (i.e. actual blood tests) from either randomly selected samples, real presentations, or selected populations.

Yes, one in four people have herpes, but most have oral herpes (cold sores), which they acquire through kissing rather than sex.  On top of that, studies of discordant couples (monogomous, sexually active couples who don't use protection, where one has Herpes and the other does not) suggest that the likelihood of catching Herpes from an infected individual is pretty low - somewhere between 7 and 30% per year (which corresponds to somewhere between 1 in 1500 and 1 in 380) - I looked up the original data, but it is summarized well in this NYT article:  http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/18/giving-your-partner-herpes/.  The highest risk factor is unprotected vaginal sex, so if you use a condom, the risk is lower than that....  So, doing some simple math suggests that at worst, the risk of catching Herpes from an encounter is 1 in 1000, but probably much lower.

Not really true on HPV either.  Only about 1/20 people have any form of HPV (Satterwhite C, Torrone E et al.  Sexually transmitted infections among U.S. women and men:  Prevalence and incidence estimates.  2008.  Sex Transm Dis 2013; 40(3): 187-193).

Just to be clear here, I'm **not** saying that sex with multiple partners is safe.  I am saying that if you use the right protection (primarily condoms, but also visual checks etc.) then the risk of catching an STD is quite low.

eastofnorth2081 reads

Just curious about the risk factors. Like is it a rare occurrence or almost guarantee. I will only see a few providers, who screen very carefully and are on the top end of price. Does any of that matter or help? Am planning on heading to local lgbt clinic to start screening regularly.

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clarence37670 reads

If you fear stds, then don't have sex with anybody. That's the ONLY way to guarantee safety.

If you have chosen to pursue p4p sex, then you should always wear a condom, and avoid as much skin-to-skin contact as possible. Get tested regularly, as you say.  

The price of a provider guarantees nothing. Some top-tier providers allow bbfs even though it is usually not discussed. rying to figure out if a provider is "safer" due to her price, screening, advertising venue, reviews, etc, etc, is pretty much a waste of time.  

 

Posted By: eastofnorth
Just curious about the risk factors. Like is it a rare occurrence or almost guarantee. I will only see a few providers, who screen very carefully and are on the top end of price. Does any of that matter or help? Am planning on heading to local lgbt clinic to start screening regularly.

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Deen722 reads

I have no medical background but >>>  If you make a few assumptions about how many hobbyists one provider sees in a week and how many providers each of those hobbyists sees in a month, the network gets awfully big awfully fast.  Based on reviews, sounds like almost all providers do LFK or DFK,  the majority of providers do CIM, and the majority of hobbyists do DATY, so about the only thing that condoms might be reducing dramatically is HIV transmission through direct genital-to-genital contact.  It's kind of like each of us has swapped spit and given head to every one else out there.  Is there a flaw in my analysis?

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carndakine742 reads

Two big flaws in your analysis.
#1.  The transmission rate of STDs is actually quite low - ie, the likelihood if becoming infected in a single unprotected sexual encounter with an infectious individual.  For HIV for example, the transmission rate is less than 1% per coital act when the infected individual is at their most infectious.  Transmission rates vary significantly by STI, and by type of sex (generally receptive anal sex is the highest risk, receptive fellatio and giving cunniligus are the lowest risk).
#2.  Most STIs are symptomatic and treatable.  ie, people who get them will know something is wrong (pain or itch or smell etc), and can get the disease treated and cured typically with antibiotics.  Nb this is not true for Herpes (which is symptomatic fairly quickly) or HIV (which is asymptomatic often for years) - neither of those can be cured.

Combine that with the facts that a) there have not been any significant new STIs emerge in the past 30 years, and b) the norms of 'hobbying' (no protection for oral sex, and French kissing) have not changed in a long time.  In other words, we are at equilibrium.

Basically, the infection rate of STIs in the escort and hobbyist community is stable and very low.

That said, I would guess that many hobbyists or providers have had to deal with a case of chlamydia, gonnhorea, trichomoniasis, thrush, UTIs and the like.  HPV is probably a big worry for providers (get your shots of Gardasil or Cerverix, girls).

So wear a f**king condom if you are having vaginal or anal sex.  Don't do anything unprotected if you have any cuts or sores in your mouth, vagina or penis.  See a doctor if anything is weird and get it treated.  Get tested regularly.  And if you catch anything, then tell the sex partners you have had since your last negative test (the CDC has a way of doing this anonymously for notifiable diseases)

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Deen709 reads

I'm just thinking it gets awfully juicy down there.  And the safe sex websites make a big deal about using a dental dam, like it's really important.  I'm not implying that you're wrong, just trying to understand.  If I need to wear a condom when inserting my penis, why is it less risky when smearing my tongue and lips and slurping?

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Deen621 reads

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/STDs/cunnilingus-STD-risk----in-summary/show/735690

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carndakine639 reads

The short non scientific answer is that the mouth and upper GI tract is designed to deal with some pretty vile stuff without getting you sick (think about what our ancestors have been eating for millions of years, and that disgusting kebab you ate at 3am after leaving the pub).  The more scientific answer is that the bacteria that cause most if these STDs is not very good at infecting the mouth and throat but is great at infecting your dick - same way as your dick won't get strep throat.  For HIV and other STI viruses, the receptors for the viral particles are much much more common in genital epithelial cells than in oral epithelial cells.....  Again, same analogy, your dick will not contract the common cold.

Yes, the safe sex websites recommend a dental dam .  Which is definitely safer than without.  Just like waiting for the lights is safer than crossing the road against a red light.  The thing with the safe sex message is that being simple and clear is much more effective than being nuanced.  Hence 'never have any unprotected sex'

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Deen409 reads

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London Rayne550 reads

The giver is ALWAYS at more risk than the receiver. Why do you think so many GUYS INSIST on BBBJ, but won't daty? Nuff said. You don't get herpes once it enters your damn GI tract lol. You get it ON CONTACT!

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carndakine549 reads

The risks of giving cunnilingus are very low - in fact, the risks of receiving it are much higher (particularly of getting candida or bacterial vaginosis).

The two most cited studies are meta-analyses from the late 1990s.
1.  Edwards S, Carne C.  Oral Sex and the Transmission of Viral STIs.  Sex Transm Infect. 1998 Feb;74(1):6-10.
2.  Edwards S, Carne C.  Oral Sex and the Transmission of Non-Viral STIs.  Sex Transm Infect. 1998 Apr;74(2):95-100.
I've put a link to both below, and I'd urge anyone who is interested to read them.  It is dry reading, but very factual.  My attempt at a rough laymans summary below:

Giving oral sex to a man has been identified as a risk factor for:
HIV (both with and without ejaculation) - NB, low risk (see below)
HPV (genital warts)
Syphilis
Gonorrhoea
Chlamydia

Giving oral sex to a woman has been identified as a risk factor for:
HIV - NB, low risk (see below)
HPV
Gonorrhoea

Receiving oral sex as a man has been identified as a risk factor for:
HIV - NB, low risk (see below)
Herpes (very few reports)
Syphilis
Gonorrhea

Receiving oral sex as a woman has been identified as a risk factor for:
HIV - NB, low risk (see below)
Candida / Thrush (highest risk)
Bacterial vaginosis (also highest risk)
Herpes
HPV

Note that the viral report makes reference to case examples of HIV transmission from oral sex.  These have been disputed pretty aggressively since and are generally believed to be artifacts (false positive observations of low-frequency events because of misreporting)

Related Link: Oral sex and the transmission of non-viral STIs

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carndakine602 reads

Related Link: Oral sex and the transmission of viral STIs

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carndakine488 reads

This isn't 100% concordant with what I wrote above, but it is pretty close.  I'm sure these guys have a better take than I do on the clinical literature.  Link below:

Related Link: SF City Clinic STD risk factors

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Pavliena770 reads

that STDs is not only once you can catch with sex ..
 as all type of hepatitis, mono, adenoviruses .. ( especially if you are in to rimming .. so as much as I am greek goddess I do not rim myself  and do not need it for starting greek ..
 if he wants do that to me - it is  fine with me but I then do not kiss .. ( but kiss at the beginning ..)  it is not about how I feel.. it is about that even your own ass can pass you adenovirus ..)  
 google yourself what it is .

skin disease... monos , adenoviruses ..hepatitis .. and just  sorry lice .. and it is why high volume women are shaved ... and men  think it is sexy .. they just MUST be shaved to keep it  no lice ( but it is misstake - Lie can live and on the skin ..with no hair all its need - your blood ..
 soo dear .. still want ran by agency women from other countries?

I am very low volume and almost not hourly at all .. so I will use this opportunity to introduce my safe company:)  
 yours  
Serafima
  169465

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Deen526 reads

most providers have hepatitis vaccinations and shave / wax.  Sounds like a lot of guys are starting to shave south of the equator as well.

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Pavliena601 reads

you have to repeat your hepatitis vaccination?? I doubt  people do it here  as  soon as they are out of the parents hands   and colleges ( and I think many providers here never was in any colleges nor have been having really caring parents.. how to explain other wise that they do need provide ??? family is strong thing and it supports   a single woman in hard times .. but she is here alone .. Iam here  yes becuase I do not have family any one to help me ..in states .. but most women have families .. yet providing .. so back on track i lost myself here - so about vaccination -I dount yougn ladies here will be checking on  own vaccination immunization  records the most they will do it is  HPV Human Papiloma Virus and only because it is all over advertising .... where in states  you saw heavy company on hepatitis vaccination ? .. and you do know your own people - people just do what adds told them to do ..  so i would not relay that here all women over 23  are recent on hepatitis vaccination..  I bet many do  have just basic medical insurance ..
I saw there on NYC board so called upscale providers are going to Free STD clinics in NYC .. do you  have imagination what it is? in NYC free Std testing  what kind people are there ?? ha ha  upscale TER providers .. your would say  it is the same- tests.. yes .. but  they do not do 10 days sensitive HIV tests .. so she can may be  have AIDS 3 month  till it become detectable  so to  speak .. and it is all price you men would pay when you are saving money to see woman as I am :)
money buying not peaice or pussy  but your peace of mind  as up to me  
if I would be  TER I just allowed here women who are  min of 1000 and  gentlemen who able donate such and the rest has to  improve their style of life to fit this playgame . sorry for being a bit snobby  but yes I also afraid and STD s and criminals  in this   murky waters .. yet being alone no family .and wanting  still  keep it classy sassy kinky and  real .. it is hard ... and  myself I have all vacinations as adult - simply whe I did enter country they do require  have all medical records up to date :)if you enter legal of course. I am Us Citizen by the way .. so not be rude to me please

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carndakine476 reads

Serafima, I completely agree with you.  There are a bunch of things beyond the STIs that you can catch.  I'd add to your list the common cold, influenza, coxsackie virus, shigella, pneumococcus, etc etc etc.

But you can also catch any of those things from most of the things you do in your everyday non sexual life.

Also - pubic lice are so rare even in people with copious pubic hair.  I asked a friend of mins who is an STD doctor whether waxing really prevents them.  He said "anyone who is careful enough to maintain a shaven pudendum would be careful enough to prevent pubic lice.  And pubic lice can still hang on to skin and stubble.

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Pavliena529 reads

BUT I do not think that we are here on TER  deal with safe  well educated public with means to take good care about themselves and be well maintained .... here  are  women  not from  you know .. wealth and loving families .. educated and well read and responsible .. especially young ladies sorry .. youth .. it is fact ..   youth here learnign about men from client type relationship .. never was loved never was married never had good men in her life .. it is not her fault .I do not blame  her..I just  pointing it out .. that it will take time for a woman to become a woman .. and if woman started as provider ?? OMG ..you men donate to those women  for own troubles I would say ..Of course I would recognize  that here and responsible youth as well .. but .. do you  have own kids yes ?? you do know how hard to get them  go to doctor ?  and they are good kids .. not on weed , not on drugs  not on sex work? yet they are delying doctors visits..
 and here you would belive to all a ?? what would say you upscale escort who needs money ?? whatever .. so use your brains gentlemen  in order to organize your lovely naughty  rendezvous .. of course you can catch all those and in train.. and in bus .. but dear .. you would not have skin to skin contact ..in the  bus  or co worker  
 when you come  to provider .. what a ugly word !! provider . yakk  and some women actually happy and proud call themselv _ Iam a provider  !! ha ha ha I would say - Iam just a woman company for you :)
 so when you come to real provider  she had before you skin to skin  contact may be already 3 times
 is is sexy a ?? ha ha ah  whatever ..
 so any way I do see only those for whom trips to agency is  is not a fantasy .. but fantasy  is to relax all ways in hands of loving woman :) who can be and tigress and dove and mistress and sub and dom and role play and all and   be safe  and I did learn that adult  women are the best for that :)

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PeaceandLove2All396 reads

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Pavliena480 reads

it looks  good and I do not  afraid lice because I see only few men a month  and my men never are in high volume  places :)

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carndakine659 reads

There is heaps of data out there about STI prevalence amongst sex workers.  A few snippets that give me comfort:
*. Lifetime STI rates of licensed prostitutes in regulated brothels has been reported in the clinical literature at 6%.  Note that these are girls who use condoms and dental dams for all paid sex. All of that 6% is explainable by unprotected personal sex and IV drug use
*. Amongst US sex workers, STI rates are higher for phone sex workers than escorts (yes, you did read that right, and I am pretty sure i got that right from the article).
*. In a group of incarcerated women sex workers who had typically been incarcerated a handful of times before, STI rates are about 30%, and HiV rates are 6%.  Note that the HIV number is about the same as the non sex worker incarcerated group.  Numbers are much lower for non drug users, and white women.  

For men who visit escorts, lifetime STI rates have been estimated at about 20%.  This includes all the johns who choose not to use a condom when bbfs so offered to them, and who use street hookers.

I'd hazard a guess that at any given time, somewhere between 1 and 5% of the women reviewed on this site have an STI other than HiV, and  That they typically pass it onto between 1 and 2 hobbyists before they have it treated.  I'd guess that half of the infected women are infected through sex in their personal life rather than professional life.  For HIV I'd guess the number is lower than 1%, with passing on to clients being extremely rare.

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tg_baby471 reads

Don't forget licensed brothel workers, in addition to being uber-safe in their BCD practices, are also required to undergo regular STD tests in order to remain licensed. That's not true of the rest of this industry.

Posted By: carndakine

 *. Lifetime STI rates of licensed prostitutes in regulated brothels has been reported in the clinical literature at 6%.  Note that these are girls who use condoms and dental dams for all paid sex. All of that 6% is explainable by unprotected personal sex and IV drug use  
 
I don't personally find the rest too reassuring...but, I do take comfort in the fact that I personally minimize my risks. That's certainly not true of everybody, though.

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London Rayne569 reads

You do realize how flawed that data is? Even in secret surveys, men and women rarely admit to being in this business or seeing sex workers. I sure as hell have never told the blood bank I was a hooker before donating. No, the risk is not low...one in four people have herpes and just about everyone has some form of HPV. The cdc is your friend.

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tg_baby577 reads

There is no way for anybody to know what the truth is regarding STD's. Personally, I really didn't even find the dude's stats to be one bit reassuring. 30% of all incarcerated had a STI...just in that small window of time that they were incarcerated? I realize that the girls who are incarcerated are, on the whole, not the ones who post here...but still. Their clients probably thought they were 'safe', too. I think that because this is business for us, we girls are much more cognizant of the risks involved (smart girls are, anyway). Guys just want to think that it's fun and games - and that, if you cross your fingers twice and only see girls over $ (or whatever rules or rituals they choose to take comfort in), that they will be fine.  

I've heard of a guy getting an STD ONCE...and it was because he told me. (Not because I had anything to do with it...because he knew he fucked up, and he thought I'd have some words of wisdom for him. I really didn't except to say 'I coulda told you that'...I refrained, lol). But aside from that, my personal opinion is that it's much more common than people think, just kept silent.

-- Modified on 10/21/2013 11:55:52 AM

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carndakine661 reads

With respect London, I disagree.  This data is not based on secret surveys, but rather epidemiological estimates based on observed data (i.e. actual blood tests) from either randomly selected samples, real presentations, or selected populations.

Yes, one in four people have herpes, but most have oral herpes (cold sores), which they acquire through kissing rather than sex.  On top of that, studies of discordant couples (monogomous, sexually active couples who don't use protection, where one has Herpes and the other does not) suggest that the likelihood of catching Herpes from an infected individual is pretty low - somewhere between 7 and 30% per year (which corresponds to somewhere between 1 in 1500 and 1 in 380) - I looked up the original data, but it is summarized well in this NYT article:  http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/18/giving-your-partner-herpes/.  The highest risk factor is unprotected vaginal sex, so if you use a condom, the risk is lower than that....  So, doing some simple math suggests that at worst, the risk of catching Herpes from an encounter is 1 in 1000, but probably much lower.

Not really true on HPV either.  Only about 1/20 people have any form of HPV (Satterwhite C, Torrone E et al.  Sexually transmitted infections among U.S. women and men:  Prevalence and incidence estimates.  2008.  Sex Transm Dis 2013; 40(3): 187-193).

Just to be clear here, I'm **not** saying that sex with multiple partners is safe.  I am saying that if you use the right protection (primarily condoms, but also visual checks etc.) then the risk of catching an STD is quite low.

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tg_baby514 reads

to 1 in 6 adults has GENITAL herpes. More like 90% (as per my second article) of all adults are estimated to have ORAL herpes. Your assumption there was wrong.s

Links for ya:  
1. http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/09/ps-herpes-usa-idUSN0923528620100309
2. http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/condition/herpes-simplex-virus  

I can find more if you want...those were the first two that popped up on google, I'm sure there's more overwhelming evidence if you really want to see it.

One of you points (don't have time to pick apart the rest, but this was the one that stood out)...among monogamous couples where herpes has not been transmitted, the infected partner is likely under suppressive treatment. Also, her partner KNOWS...so he can take adequate precautions. There is communication and the woman has no incentive to be sexually active if she thinks an outbreak is imminent...

THERE IS NO DATA about independent escorts or agency escorts in this realm. Continue to think that STD's are rare here...but don't be surprised to find out the hard way, they aren't

Related Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/09/ps-herpes-usa-idUSN0923528620100309

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tg_baby381 reads



-- Modified on 10/23/2013 2:21:01 PM

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tg_baby527 reads

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