many of the agency sites indicate the same approximate donation for a companion as the independent providers post.  Does the donation include the agency fee or is that the showup fee with an additional fee for the lady?

I have seen providers from two different agencies and each time the agency's fee was included in the donation.

My understanding is that the provider pays the Agency from the donation you give her.

Reputable agencies: Yes, the fee is "all inclusive".  The 'reputable' agencies are the ones with lots of good reviews.

Non-reputable agencies: The fee is for a different woman to show up at your door.  After she takes the money, she'll point behind you and say "OH MY GOD!! WHAT IS THAT?!?!!"  When you turn around, she will have disappeared.

Btw, you may want to consider tipping more heavily with an agency girl, since she's having to give a cut to the agency.

-- Modified on 5/10/2006 9:02:19 PM

I disagree with the comment about tipping more heavily to agency girls because of the 'agency cut' - which pays for screening, incall location, supplies, etc.

For some reason, many clients seem to forget that independent providers have those same expenses, too.  They typically handle all calls/screening, supplies, incall location expenses, etc, etc, etc.  They may get the entire fee, but the 'net profit' margin is nearly identical to what the agency girls receive, sometimes less.  Independents don't work as independents just for the extra money; they do it for the extra freedom and control over their own destiny.

Tips should be based on your experience and services received from the provider, regardless of her employment arrangement.

Since I made the first comment, obviously I disagree.

As I see it, the agency cut not only includes things like screening/phone/booking costs, but also includes some profit for the agency.  They're not going to do this just to cover their costs.

Meanwhile, an independent is effectively paying 'cost' for the screening/phone/booking/etc. All things being equal, an independent will make more because she keeps all the profit, instead of the agency taking some profit and she gets the rest.

Below is a relatively simple example:

Provider 'A' works for an agency; Provider 'B' is an independent.  Both charge the same $300 hourly rate, and both work five days a week, seeing two clients each day.

Agency Provider 'A' retains $200 from each session, making her net gain for the week $2000 (200x2x5).  With the exception of minor expenses (makeup, etc., which also apply to Provider 'B'), that $2000 is for 10 hours work, plus session prep and travel time - let's estimate it at 20 hours total.  Average hourly net income:  2000/20 = $100/hr.

Independent Provider 'B' has a gross income for the week of $3000 (300x2x5).  Because she maintains her own incall location, the expenses of maintaining it must be deducted from her gross.  For a $1200/month apartment, one week's expenses will be around $350, counting rent and utilities.  Throw in another $50/week in miscellaneous expenses (candles, drinks, laundry, towels, sheets, etc.), and her gross is now down to $2600, and we have not even considered any advertising expenses.  For her prep/travel time, she spends roughly the same 10 extra hours as Provider 'A', but you must also add in telephone/email/screening time (10 hours, and that's a low estimate), and add 5 hours per week to include time related to upkeep of the incall location (cleaning, laundry, shopping for supplies, etc.).  Adding all those hours to her actual session time, her total time investment is at least 35 hours for the week.  Average hourly net income:  2600/35 = $75/hr.

Your major error is in underestimating the extra time involved and expenses incurred by the independent, and assuming that the 'profit' received by the independent is all free and clear -- when in fact they have extra costs (some significant) to deduct before realizing that 'profit' which is spread over a significantly higher number of hours worked.

As in any service industry, tips should be based on performance and service received, not the person's employement arrangement.


-- Modified on 5/12/2006 4:52:52 AM

My most memorable experiences have been with indies.

Still, I have no problem believing that popular agency ladies, provided she works for a top-knotch agency, nets more for for her effort than an independent gal.

(edited for spelling)

-- Modified on 5/12/2006 1:39:12 PM

"Your major error is in underestimating the extra time involved and expenses incurred by the independent"

And, IMO, your major error is overestimating those expenses while underestimating the agency's costs.  In my experience, agencies have also provided far less service than you give them credit for.

The agency's incall location(s) still have to be paid for.  They can't be shared all that well among ladies doing 10 sessions a week, when you figure each lady would have to have the room to herself for some time before and after each appointment to set up and clean up (unless the ladies are good at rushing then acting not-rushed).  Sharing a single incall is also complicated by there being popular times of day to see a provider.  The agency would have to turn these customers away, or have multiple incalls.

And I've never heard of an agency providing maid service at their incalls.  Granted, it could be I've just never heard of it, but the cleaning, laundry, candles, supplies, etc were supplied by the provider, not the agencies (in my limited agency experience).  Unless, of course, the incall was a hotel in which case the indie can go to a hotel just as easily as an agency girl.  Presumably the agency would want some profit on the hotel room charge, which an indie wouldn't have to pay.

Advertising: The agency is not going to get all that much of a break on advertising, unless they cram all their ladies into a single Eros ad (for example), which is far less effective than individual ads for each lady.  Eros might give them a bulk discount for lots of ads, but I would be suprised if it is very large.  The agency also has to pay someone to maintain those ads, which an indie does not.  In my experience, the maintenance is going to be a far larger problem for an agency, because their girls seem to flit in and out of the business quite often.

Most of your 'miscellaneous expenses' would be incurred by both an agency girl and an indie.

As for telephone/screening time, she either pays for it with her time (indie), or she pays someone to do it (agency).  The cost, in economic terms, is the same unless you can find some "economics of scale" argument for the agency.  Since both ladies are seeing the same number of clients, there's no opportunity cost to the indie.  And the agency will demand a profit on top of the wage they pay the screener, making agency screening more expensive than the 'average wage' for a screener.  We can presume that the indie is charging herself the 'average wage' for a screener.


Obviously, anyone is welcome to tip any way they feel like, if at all.

When I have seen agency providers, I preferred to tip them more because I felt most of them were getting ripped off by the agency's fees, compared to the service the agency provided.  So her employment situation was a factor in how I decided to tip.  Up until I decided to stop being a white knight in that way, and just see indies.

You are welcome to use any factors you feel are important while tipping.  I'll use the ones I think are important.


-- Modified on 5/12/2006 10:20:20 PM

Hobbyist.
Bottom line. Independants end up with less $ and less time for a personal life,time is money too ya know.
Of course that is if you are dealing with reputable people... Like me
tyvm,P.T.

"time is money too ya know"

Time is only worth the value of what else you'd be doing with that time.

For a more detailed explination of my position, you can read my 2nd reply to atl_mgr.  Whether or not a provider should join an agency is well beyond the scope of the current discussion.

Btw, if the tone of your post is a sample of the customer service you're providing for ladies, ya might wanna work on that.  Since I don't know you, I have no idea what tone you were trying to convey.  To me, it came off as massive arrogance, especially with the tsks.

instead of writing more quasi insulting uninformed posts.
tyvm,P.T.

-- Modified on 5/14/2006 8:47:19 PM

You are welcome to try an explain where, in detail, I am wrong since I explained in detail why I think I'm right.

It's also quite possible that your agency provides far more value than the agencies I've dealt with in the past.

Repededly calling me an idiot isn't exactly good PR.  Making a case for how your agency is different and a great value to the ladies would be good PR.

I dont see the word idiot anywhere in either of my posts.
tyvm,P.T.

Repeatedly using "uninformed" + the condesending tone of your posts = idiot.