I'm a newbie to this site and typically go to Asian Massage Parlors.  When I meet a girl I really like, I tend to stick with her over an extended period of time. But here's something that has happened to me with several different AMP girls: after seeing the same girl a few times, she will suggest that I drop the raincoat. Is this a common occurrance?  

It seems quite risky--both for the girl and for me.  I've never taken the offer, but I have been tempted--some of these providers are quite beautiful. Is this a way for a provider to 'hang on' to a customer?  Thanks.  --z

If she's offering to do it for you, how many other guys is she doing the same thing for? Totally not worth it. You should politely decline, and if she insists, move on to someone else. No matter how good she is, she's not worth the chance of catching STD's.

Are you referring to oral activities or intercourse?  For the first one, not a big deal.  The other one is not a good idea...

That is a very bad idea if we're talking FS like the other guy said, unless you have a death wish.

I personally don't get along with raincoats but it's a necessary evil. It'd be great if there were no risks going bare back FS but there are plenty

I was referring to 'no raincoat' during intercourse.  I understand there's a risk, but some behavior is riskier than others, agreed (?)

The data I've seen is that HIV transmission in the U.S. from female-->male is rare. Consider this 1991 Univ of California study of HIV transmission rates:

"PARTICIPANTS.--Data from 379 couples at entry to the study are reported: 72 male partners of infected women and 307 female partners of infected men.  
RESULTS.--We observed one probable instance (1%) of female-to-male transmission compared with 20% transmission rates in the female partners of infected men. All couples were sampled in the same way.
CONCLUSION.--The odds of male-to-female transmission were significantly greater than female-to-male transmission. The one case of female-to-male transmission was unique in that the couple reported numerous unprotected sexual contacts and noted several instances of vaginal and penile bleeding during intercourse."

Do you know the range of STD's transmitted by intercourse? To me, you'd have to be out of your mind to consider this.

Don't do it!!! No matter how tempting it might sound, it's foolish. It sounds as though you have done some research on this, but as suggested, HIV is not the only thing to consider. You need to consider all of the other STD's, not to mention the millions of other people in this hobby, some of whom would be affected by a poor decision on your part.

there is no reason to take the risk. NONE!!!!

Think about all the men that do indulge in that. Still want to sick your uncovered dick there? She's offering it to you then she is, like stated above, offering it to many others. Not only worries of STD's but what about pregnancy. Has that even crossed anyones mind? Talk about ruining your health... what about your life?
Want the rain coat off? Then please go fk your wife. ;-p

AR
XO

Let's assume she's on the "up and up" - not a psycho looking to "burn" you with a disease, and not trying to trap you by getting pregnant.

I think you are correct - she knows this is a way to keep you coming back (no pun intended).

Most likely you're clean-cut, showered, you never stiffed her on the tip, she's seen you multiple times, you have a good rapport. If she can get you BB, she knows she'll have you wrapped around her finger - you won't want to see anyone else but her.

Even if you like variety, "old BB" trumps "new with condom".

As far as risk of disease, you're correct about HIV - the risk is mainly hers, not yours. Everything else is a toss of the coin. Don't BB her and then f**k your SO that same night - maybe not even that same week!

You make a valid point--true, there are other STDs out there, but none as lethal as HIV/AIDS.    But the issue here is *risk and how do we measure it, quantify it.   The fact that you're a 'hobbyist' means that you've accepted a certain level of risk.  And a condom doesn't eliminate your risk from STDs.  

I must admit these girls surprise me when they offer themselves without any protection--I think their risk is far greater than mine.  Last week a beautiful Korean girl (that I've seen on multiple occasions) asked, "Do you want to try without it?"  I'm always a bit stunned.  In the past year, this has happened with three different girls at three different AMPs.  Surely this is happening to other guys out there?  Maybe AIDS fear has dropped off in my part of the country.   I know it sounds reckless...but each time it gets  harder to put on that raincoat when there's a beautiful girl inviting you to drop it.

I get BBFS with many providers, and my wife says I fuck around too much, and insists on rubbers.

Angie, here's the WORST idea ever: engaging in this hobby while having unprotected sex with your wife/girlfriend.  I might be willing to run my own risks, but it would be immoral to pass that risk on to an unknowing  wife/girlfriend.  

Consider: wouldn't it be better if I did the reverse: unprotected sex with a willing participant (massage girl), and then only protected sex with a wife/girlfriend who was unaware of my 'hobby'.  
Just a thought. --z

You gotta be out of your mind to go there...

I'm concerned reading some of these responses. I was a sex education trainer for the Red Cross...please know that you CAN contract HIV from oral sex!!!!!! The only 100% prevention is no sex, but if you use a condom the correct way everytime, the risk of STDs is greatly reduced(HIV is an STD). The shocking thing is how many men and women don't know the proper way to put a condom on....Ladies, it is easier for us to contract HIV than men....I am happy to educate anyone know the proper way to put on a condom.

"Only unprotected sex with your wife/girlfriend"

Not only would that raise suspicions, but seems a little backwards to me. Yes, there are risks in this hobby, and we all determine the risks that we are willing to take. With the risks being much higher by going BB with your massage girl, the risks at home will increase no matter how "careful" you are.

I do not think that there is one documented case in getting aids from oral sex . Now herpres and gono thats different.

not one documented case of HIV from oral, check out the HIV board on medhelp.com

The dr's have over 30 years of experience and they all tell the users there is no risk of HIV through oral.

You misquoted me, here's what I wrote:

" wouldn't it be better if I did the reverse: unprotected sex with a willing participant (massage girl), and then only protected sex with a wife/girlfriend who was unaware of my 'hobby'. "

My point: if you're a hobbyist, then you should NEVER have unprotected sex with a wife/girlfriend if she's unaware of your hobby.

A person contracts HIV which develops into AIDS. An infected person can pass the virus through their blood, semen, pre-seminal fluid and vaginal fluid and there are documented cases of infection through oral sex. The risk is lower than anal and vaginal, but it's a risk.

He is also taking risks in that the provider might do bareback with her boyfriend. He is insane.

I am sure you didn't mean that literally, but I couldn't help myself.

-- Modified on 12/16/2008 8:11:17 PM

If you need someone to tell you thats truely NOT safe, you may want to rethink your new hobby.
Maybe something safer like, stamp collecting. Pretty much a solitary hobby and no sharp edges for you to hurt yourself on. What you are asking is like asking if its safe to skydive without a parachute.  Think man think!!!

I doubt that any provider here will see him after reading this thread.

-- Modified on 12/16/2008 8:10:03 PM

I knew someone would catch me on that. teehee

-- Modified on 12/16/2008 9:08:40 PM

If it seems risky, talks risky and walks risky it is risky!

Never worked at AMP (and never would) .. but isn't the whole point of those place that EVERYTHING is covered? Given the volume of their busines ....

I personally would never ever think of BBFS even with someone I was dating in civvie life. Unless we have decided that we are noth seing other people and were together for a long time.  

XoXo

Lina

Girl, those papercuts can be life threatening!  Plus, you neva know who licked that stamp

XoXo

Lina

let us not get carried away

i like the idea, but to get a real test takes a month and thats if she doesnt bb some else that entire time. 1 wk thats a joke right!

Clara, thanks for the Provider Ban.  If you read my posts carefully, then  you know that I still wear the raincoat.  The point of my post was that several providers have asked me to take it off, and I thought it was a fair topic to discuss that risk.

 Since you've identified yourself as a provider,  the fact is that you have no clue about the sexual history of your clients.  You're only interested in punishing someone who tried to address a controversial  topic on a public board.  Do you think I'm the only one who has been tempted by a provider to take off the raincoat?   Careful, guys--even discussing this issue will get you a provider ban on this board.

I was in a seminar once about effective communication.  The speaker used this example that was supposedly a true story about medical workers in Africa teaching ladies the proper use of condoms.

The medical person taught the women of a rural community that condoms would help them keep from getting diseases.  They showed them how the condoms come wrapped in a package, how to open the package, and how to apply the condom (using the handle of a broom stick as a prop).

Three months later the medical team came back to the village to measure the progress of the free condom program.  They asked each of the ladies if they were using the condoms and in every case each said yes they were.  Of course the medical team was thrilled to hear this.

They were thrilled until they had one of the ladies proudly point to her broom standing in the corner with the daily replaced condom stretched over the end of it.

I have recently set up an appt with a provider.  She advertises uncovered oral. In her reviews they talk about it also.  I have only been with 2 other providers and this was not an option.  Why do so many providers include this in their ads.  Isn't this an unsafe practice.  I am married and still have sex with my wife.

Sorry but the experts at Med help say there has not been one documented case of HIV thru oral . You are wrong if you can find a documented case please post it for us.

"Yes, it is possible for either partner to become infected with HIV through performing or receiving oral sex. There have been a few cases of HIV transmission from performing oral sex on a person infected with HIV. While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, evidence suggests that the risk is less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex."

The main reason why there aren't any cases where it is stated that HIV was transmitted via oral sex, it that you would have to find, and believe, someone who is HIV infected whose ONLY possible exposure to the virus has been oral sex - no unprotected vaginal sex, no unprotected anal sex, no transfusions, no sharing needles, etc.  That's a pretty hard ask!!!

I don't know of any reputable site that says there is NO risk of HIV transmission via oral sex - they all say that it is less risky than other activity, and there is debate whether it should be classified as higher or lower risk.

Important thing to remember, open sores on, or in the month, of the person performing the act is a risk factor.

I see, the word 'sport' has magical properties, unlike 'hobby'.  Someone needs to redesign this site so that all mention of 'hobby' and 'hobbyist' is changed to 'sport' and 'sportsman' .  --z

It is a serious issue. It's clearly a phenomenon that occurs and it does need to be aired.

The reason you alarmed everyone so much was the seemingly cavalier way in which you discussed the risks involved. To post a response about HIV transmission rates was odd and largely irrelevant. The providers and hobbyists who participate in TER boards think of themselves as a sort of gentry of the hobby community. They abide by pretty high standards of behavior. Your perspective was scary to them. They'd rather not know what lies behind your perspective.

And my heart is breaking... --z

Why would anyone be honest about anything on this board?  The penalty = Provider Ban (remember?)

There has not been one case that has been documented . Med help says  there is a risk but it has never been proven.
If it was it was probably gay men I trust Med help and real doctors more then a gov website.

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/show/117


http://www.sfcityclinic.org/stdbasics/stdchart.asp

-- Modified on 12/17/2008 11:05:09 PM

-- Modified on 12/17/2008 8:58:35 PM

When my ex would wanna take mine off i'd look at her like she was crazy!!  I definitely don't mind getting a BBBJ.  but i'd go home before i'd go BBFS.  
just my 2

The CDC has some of the best practicing doctors and medical researchers in the world. I would trust them absolutely BEFORE trusting anyone else. The agency is very good at researching and understanding public health issues.

Why do you think gay men are more prone to HIV transmission via oral sex that heterosexual men? You statement sounds completely ignorant to me. I am a 100% heterosexual man, so before you try to go there, don't.

BBBJ is offered because many men want it. If you have concerns about BBBJ or DATY, don't partake of either. There are enough ads from providers that provide only covered BJs and who do not allow DATY, many can use business from hobbyists that prefer CBJs and no DATY.

If you do not think gay men are more prone you are the one that is damn naive

But there are warnings out there if someone decides to go bareback. No one has banned you, but I am not the only one who will not see someone who goes bareback. Who in their right mind would?

I was trying to grab your attention -- and it worked -- because if women hear that you're even thinking about it, it scares the crap out of them. If you decide not to, then please post that because it is important for us and for you, okay?

Hugs,
Ciara

Hi Zangari,

I just wanted to let you know that I didn't mean to sound harsh in response to your post, but I guess I did want you to take notice. I usually use a lot more decorum in my responses (mostly humerous), but there are times when I say it as it is. Most know about -- and our comfortable with -- my personality for the past seven years on these boards. I was already having a bad day and a few men who kept bugging me to go bareback (which I won't), so your post scared the crap out of me -- and a few others. I would never ban anyone unless he stole from me, hurt me physically or was really scarey and hostile. However, many providers send out warnings, which I'm sure you can understand. This may be fun for some of us, but it's also a business we take very seriously, especially when it pertains to health risks.

The majority of escorts on TER are highly educated, very witty and sexual beings. Having said that, we tend to mentor newbies on a variety of subjects because some are very dangerous and we don't want you to get hurt or be hurt ourselves. We also come off very clear and sometimes loud if we think someone is going to do something stupid or risky. Just know that we do care and want you to be safe. But, also know that 99.9 percent of us will not see you -- or anyone -- who goes bareback.

Happy hobbying & hugs,
Ciara






-- Modified on 12/18/2008 3:07:20 PM

I would say the reason there is really no conclusive evidence is that usually there is other sexual activty that goes along with oral and therefore making it impossible to tell how the HIV was transmitted. I'm the kind of person that thinks along the lines of never say never and just because it hasn't been conclusively documented doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I just took a look at the list of things a lady can catch performing bbbj from a reputable site in San Fran and that made me shudder. BTW the reciever is at way less risk. Hmm...maybe that's even more reason you gents want it.

All: I think I was a bit too brazen in some of my remarks on this thread & sorry that I upset some folks.

Ciara: thank you for your gracious statement above.  

I hope everyone has a fab holiday & a great 2009.   --z

OMG how could you say that when it is so possible to get HIV from oral. Have you ever heard of vaginal or penal secretions. Those fluids carry the infection so if it enters your mouth and penetrates the skin you are now infected. How could some people be so ignorant of something like this???

Wow!

I wouldn't be your wife you sound stupid.

First your wife will Never know and she never should so thats not the point. Second your lack of respect for her is apalling. Risk the safety of your marriage for pleasure with a call girl. If you do come down with something life threatening is that fair to your spouse?

To me you are a true beauty. I love your perspective and persona. Again you come off as a truly stunning person personality wise

Let me quote your beloved Dr. HHH, the medhelp.org guru:

To my knowledge, there is no documented case of a person catching HIV through performance of cunnilingus; the internet debates you describe are pretty much limited to fellatio.


ummm, yunno most of the gals who post on TER perform fellatio on a daily basis, why assume that someone who is HIV infected must be a gay man?

Nothing is zero but the current  belief now is saliva kills aids virus . Gays do more then just blow jobs thus they are at  higher risk in the ass . Common  sense dude

If you add the infected cells to a large amount of blood, semen or breast milk and then you add saliva, any of those three fluids will protect the infected cells from being killed by saliva," Baron said. "This is consistent with other evidence that those three fluids can transmit HIV. But in the presence of saliva and the absence of those three fluids, HIV appears to be transmitted only rarely."

From that same post .

Why would a male be at greater  risk receving oral sex then performing it on a female ?

Doc
He may not be. The risk with fellatio is primarily from penis to mouth ,not the other direction . Ejacualtion may be important.