I just read a post on the Washington DC board about a dude who paid this chick $250, then found out the rules were no DFK, no DATY and no FS, just CBJ.  

How the fuck does that happen?

I can see now I could never get all into this hobby because my nine would certainly be convincing that bii-aatch to give me back my muthafuckin money.

Hmm....let me guess....you're a Harvard or Yale graduate? First off,to answer your question,it happens because he probably called up someone with no reviews and he took a gamble and TOFTT and lost.Secondly,for someone who can't get into this hobby,you seem to know your acronyms awfully well.Thirdly,it's morons like you that make life more difficult for newbies to get into this hobby because the girls {"bii-aatches" to use your lingo} have to worry that some potential psychopath {like you}will be their next phone call,therefore they ask for a lot of references from them which they don't have yet.Newbies out there,THIS is the reason why it's so important to have references!Fourth,judging by your well-thought out and well written post,I don't think you'll ever put together enough money {"scratch",to use your lingo} in your entire lifetime to be able to see even a streetwalker......unless you decide to pull out your "nine" and rob some poor bastard.Oh,and by the way "Mr.Carry a 9mm",your post frightens nobody because everybody thinks they're such a tough guy behind a computer.You're such a "tough guy" that you can't even use your real TER handle? Pathetic loser! Soooo.....how do you plan to respond there tough guy? Let me guess.You're going to pull out your "nine" and "bust a cap in my a$$" right? Okay tough guy!

I tried for hours to put this fool in his place, but once I saw your post, I knew I could do no better.

Yeah,unfortunately it was too easy,much much too easy! I'm actually kinda surprised that post got past the mods. There's been two providers that I know of assaulted in the last week or so.....I don't want to read about any more! Three things that I hate....violence against children,women and animals.

get a VIP membership so that you can read the entire review.  If you do your homework, you will know who offers DFK, FS, etc.  You do not need to be an Ivy League grad to make an wise decision.  You probably should have a basic understanding of written English in order to write the inquiry e-mail to the lady.

Nicely put. There is no need for violence if simple communication rules are followed. First, the hobbyist need to do his homework. Read reviews and find out what the provider has on the menu. If this is not possible, just ask the provider. You are not forced to continue with the appointment if what you want is not available. Communication is everything. Violence is not the solution.
Jericho3

Is it any wonder the donations keep getting higher and higher being the gals need to casually dissuade such erudite troglodytes from contacting them in the first place.

... it is her body.  Sorry, but her health, safety, comfort, and livelyhood that comes first.  And it works both ways.  I've met providers who have expanded their reportoire beyond beyond what their early reviews suggest, and ladies exiting the business, who are comfortable enough to say, this just doesn't work for me anymore.

What happens on the day can't be perfectly predicted, and doesn't always have anything to do with you!!!  Expect much, if not most what her reviews suggest to be available, but always remember, it is not up to her to provide the perfect, dream experience every time.  No one can possibly do that.

Use reviews, avoid ladies that have excessive rules. They will go away.

If being an Ivy League grad means passing a member school in a speeding car, then maybe. Your assumption on the capacity to read, think critically and write an intelligent email is the most off target.

Perhaps the 'gentleman' in D.C. had some personal issues that compelled the provider to limit contact.  I've spoken with a few providers who have told me horror stories of dudes who, even after a shower, stink to high heaven.  Some have gum/tooth rot which might break the mood for DFK or even an air kiss. And then there are the guys who have some type of sore or wound on their wee-wee's which means no FS. I'm not saying it's the case but guys, if you're having bad provider experiences, take personal inventory to make sure you're not the reason you're not getting what you want.

the bii-aatch might have a 9, or worse two guys waitin outside with two 9's. Violence only gets violence. My bet is I'm hopin the sceenin would weed him out.

Ok, ok, so the bravado was a bit overboard.  I can certainly see this is not a very tolerant group!

That being said...

Let's get into some further analysis of the situation.  Should we as hobbyists expect providers to be totally upfront regarding rules/services prior to the payment (given discreetly of course)?

To answer your original question and follow-up:

Yes, in my opinion.  It is your responsibility as a hobbyist to protect your donation dollars with research and by only seeing ladies that you believe will deliver.

As far as expecting rules/services to be discussed prior to payment, it won't happen - that's how LE works.  Do your homework, choose wisely, arrive well-groomed, and you won't have any issues.

By the way, I approved your original post simply because I thought your actual question was a valid one, and figured it would likely generate informative dialog (which it has).  I think you'll find the group is pretty tolerant, but also very protective -- a perfectly reasonable stance.

I'd also advise both changing the alias and leaving the piece at home.

- atl_mgr

Unfotunately, what she says and does prior to payment is when she is most exposed to LE traps, so unless she knows you, sorry, but no, don't expect her to be totally upfront with you.

The ROB scenario seems common....guy pays up front (cash generally) with implied but not clearly stated expectation that FS is to be offered, the girl has the money in pocket, then explains the rules of no kissing, no FS etc...or perhaps a dance for another $$$.  Guy then understands it is a ripoff.....no way will girl voluntarily give money back...guy loses.....guy can not prevent this by asking for FS in return for money in advance of paying because of LE risk....everyone says to avoid this by sticking with well reviewed providers....but everyone is initially unreviewed, and to date, I have found no advice on this board stating how even the most experienced hobbiest can venture into a TOFTT situation with protectionfrom a ROB situation.....one can look for clues in the ads etc.  but that is it.  It seems like there should be a clever way to prevent this from ever happening where ROBs are not always rewarded...maybe someone out there is smart enough to think of something.

Well, depending on your personal situation you could always come back with a LE call (your experiencing fraud after all) or a small claims court threat.  You'll probably just get your money back at that point -- and who would really want to go on with the session anyway after that mood killer.

However, you may not see this as viable option if you have liabilities (family etc....)  the threat though might be enough to call off the whole situation though.

remember, you are being hustled and a big part of being hustled is just having the balls to stand up to it. Unfortunately american culture doesn't teach much about this...

any other comments?