Newbie - FAQ

My policy...
akissisjustakiss 2044 reads
posted
1 / 17

A Fav of mine...  over 5 years...  we have certainly blurred the line between client/provider.  She has a legit home business in an electronics field.  (This is a great decoy for any traffic for her providing.)   If I need repairs I'll often take my equipment to a session.  
So I bought myself an early Christmas present & upgraded my home electronics.  I gave (free, gratis, no strings attached) my Fav the old equipment, works fine...  she was happy to recieve it.  She is free to keep for her own use or sell it.    Subsequently, I replaced an additional component & packed the previous up & took it to her.  When I called to get the ok to stop by, she nicely asked if we were going to have a 'play session'...  which I had to decline since I spent my Christmas money (& had only seen her a week earlier).  
So I arrive, she comes out to carry the boxed component in, 2 hands since I use a cane.  Rather than our usual hug & kiss behind closed doors, there's this box in between us.  Although I had declined a session & was not expecting one...  I felt emotionally conflicted.  
She offered me a coffee & snack, we chatted...  Eventually it was time to go, she gave me a hug, a kiss on the mouth (closed mouth) & I headed home.  
Now, the gifts I gave her were more than equal value to a session...  but there was no such deal in place.  It would have been rude to ask for one.  As I said, I was not expecting a freebee.  She could have offered one but why would she?  That would cross yet another boundry & set a dangerous precedent.  She needs me as a paying customer.

What I take away from this is even after years of 'companionship' & friendship on some level...  at the end of the day, it is still pay for play.   Vetran hobbiest & newbie alike should keep in mind...  the activity is a GF illusion.  I am not angry or hurt but I realize that my emotions and my brain are not necessarily on the same page.  I do not regret the gifts.  I will reel in my emotions & my next meeting will be with a different girl.
KK

Bostonguy57 48 Reviews 808 reads
posted
2 / 17

I've had an ATF for almost six years now.  Over the course of the average year we spend more time together off the clock than we do on. We have dinner together after every session. We have lunches and dinners together even when there is no session. We go on weekend trips together and the only thing she charges me is the equivalent of a two hour session.  But that's the point.  The sex is always payed for.  Gifts are a very nice gesture but they don't pay the bills.

Dr Who revived 884 reads
posted
3 / 17

and the P4P is just that.  It's too bad however that your gal pal was "cold" to you upon arrival.  How hard would it have been for her to "pretend" to be happy to actually see you?

The part of this that you are not getting (but I am sure you really get it now...hopefully) is that her rent/car payment/shopping needed to get paid...NOW.

Back off from her as you indicate in your last sentence.  But don't be shocked when she doesn't call/text/email you to come back.  

And time to find another gal that you can have a similar run with.  Frankly, five years is a nice run.  And you will always remember the good times.  Just don't go back as that might create some lasting memories...the kind you don't want.

Good luck and thanks for sharing.

OldTraveler 40 Reviews 809 reads
posted
4 / 17

As you said, you had no agreement of electronics for a session.  So you have no right to be disapointed that you did not get a session.  It was a gift on your part, was it not?  And a gift inherently has no strings.

You say she offered you coffee, a snack, and conversation.  Sounds like what a frend would do.  From what she described it sounds like she can juggle being a friend and also having a business relationship--and keeping them seperate.  You seem to have confused coming over as a friend, but expecting it to cross over to a bartered business transaction.

Obviously you have every right to decide to see her, or see someone else.  But to rationalize that her treating you as a friend was clear demonstration that her friendship was an act is a bit of a stretch.

I have heard variations of this from a lot of ladies:  a guy says he wants to be a friend as well as a client, but when she treats him as a friend she finds out that his definition of "friend" included a lot of OTC playtime.

alexandrasmith 950 reads
posted
5 / 17

You acknowledge you didn't expect a freebie and you aren't angry or hurt. Yet you are punishing the lady.

It seems to me you WERE expecting something, if only subconsciously.

You could have asked if she would accept the electronics as full or partial payment for a session if it really had value to her. If you brought it as a gift to a session, she might have volunteered you a discount or extended time, again if it had real value to her IMHO the lady SHOULD do that. But if you ask to bring her a gift without a play session, you are setting up an awkward situation.

AnitaBloughjob 1079 reads
posted
6 / 17

I mean, damn, she could have at least given you a hand job as a 'thank you' for the electronics!  :)

Dr Who revived 694 reads
posted
7 / 17

another letdown.  The ladies, in many cases, are much better at compartmentalizing this "friendship" than the guys they are "friends" with.

And based on the OP, I doubt this was the only time he was somewhat disappointed with her.  If after 5 years this one incident is causing him to rethink this, well...I doubt that.

But for his happiness, he can try again with her.  And hope that SHE is really the friend that he is trying to make her into.  And that will rarely end good for the John.

akissisjustakiss 776 reads
posted
8 / 17

Sorry I was a bit unclear.  I had not bartered a freebee and did not go expecting it, though I was prepared to let events take their course (condoms in the car).  
Mentally I was prepared, emotionally, not completely.  Which was the point.
I do not intend to kick her to the curb.  She is one of a few Favorite providers.  I choose to see another next, in order to regain my perspective.  I do ordinarily rotate among Favs.  
KK

keystonekid 114 Reviews 1601 reads
posted
9 / 17

to the electronics you sometimes take to a session or does she fix them for free?

Zangari 1169 reads
posted
10 / 17


Interesting that you let slip that you use a cane, which I think goes to the heart of the matter here.  It's always possible that a man just likes to carry a walking stick.  But you then add that she had to carry the gift, since you're dependent on the cane.   We're left with a vivid impression of a disabled man  trying to please a provider with second-hand gifts.  

You need to understand your own motives:  your donations of old electronic gear is simply a pretext to see your provider off the clock.  You're vainly hoping for some action off the clock.  But let's face it--we live in a Darwinian world.  You're disabled and broke.  I'd say your chances are near zero. Sorry, old sport.  I have bad knees & do sympathize.  I may need a cane in a few years.  Have a great Christmas by spending time with family & friends.   --z    

Posted By: akissisjustakiss
A Fav of mine...  over 5 years...  we have certainly blurred the line between client/provider.  She has a legit home business in an electronics field.  (This is a great decoy for any traffic for her providing.)   If I need repairs I'll often take my equipment to a session.  
So I bought myself an early Christmas present & upgraded my home electronics.  I gave (free, gratis, no strings attached) my Fav the old equipment, works fine...  she was happy to recieve it.  She is free to keep for her own use or sell it.    Subsequently, I replaced an additional component & packed the previous up & took it to her.  When I called to get the ok to stop by, she nicely asked if we were going to have a 'play session'...  which I had to decline since I spent my Christmas money (& had only seen her a week earlier).  
So I arrive, she comes out to carry the boxed component in, 2 hands since I use a cane.  Rather than our usual hug & kiss behind closed doors, there's this box in between us.  Although I had declined a session & was not expecting one...  I felt emotionally conflicted.  
She offered me a coffee & snack, we chatted...  Eventually it was time to go, she gave me a hug, a kiss on the mouth (closed mouth) & I headed home.  
Now, the gifts I gave her were more than equal value to a session...  but there was no such deal in place.  It would have been rude to ask for one.  As I said, I was not expecting a freebee.  She could have offered one but why would she?  That would cross yet another boundry & set a dangerous precedent.  She needs me as a paying customer.

What I take away from this is even after years of 'companionship' & friendship on some level...  at the end of the day, it is still pay for play.   Vetran hobbiest & newbie alike should keep in mind...  the activity is a GF illusion.  I am not angry or hurt but I realize that my emotions and my brain are not necessarily on the same page.  I do not regret the gifts.  I will reel in my emotions & my next meeting will be with a different girl.
KK      

nearlynapping 28 Reviews 548 reads
posted
11 / 17
CarlyLady See my TER Reviews 769 reads
posted
12 / 17

While I do off-the-clock activities with a few favorite clients, my policy is that all time spent behind closed doors should be compensated. I would not be comfortable with any arrangement in which P4P is not maintained. If I were to offer this, why wouldn't the client assume that the relationship had changed to dating or FWB...why wouldn't he assume that, since I enjoyed his company and sex so much, that I no longer wanted to be paid? I would envision booty calls galore, endless requests "to stop by my place for a few drinks," to "go out for a bite," etc. As a worst-case scenario, I would fear an emotional morass of epic proportions. Also, while you might genuinely enjoy your work, would you not feel taken advantage of if you were asked to do it for free? The pay and benefits are the terms on which you will work for your boss, but that is nothing personal against the boss ( or maybe it is, but I am using this as a hypothetical situation of someone who has a positive working experience). The terms of P4P as the terms on which she has chosen to offer herself and her body. The status quo is in place for a reason.

I think that this girl probably does like you a great deal...she seems to genuinely enjoy your company enough not to mind if you stop by to chat when there is no "playtime" scheduled. Think of her as a service provider with whom you have a special relationship, not a friend, girlfriend or sex buddy.

CarlyLady See my TER Reviews 1767 reads
posted
13 / 17

Sorry, typed this out on my droid and didn't proofread very well! I do dinners, lunches, shopping, etc. off the clock (with a few clients only) but any "playtime" I expect will be compensated. Sorry if that was unclear in my first post.

I just wonder if you subconsciously wanted something more than a free session? My understanding is, that once P4P is off the table, the relationship leaves the realm of 'the hobby' and progresses onward to something else. In any case, the nature of the relationship would have to change if sex were ever offered for free.

akissisjustakiss 693 reads
posted
14 / 17

Carly,
You are quite correct.  As I said in the original post, she asked if this was to include a "play session" (P4P) which declined & agreed to the parameters even if they were a little vague.  She stuck to the parameters & I have no reason to be unhappy with her over what occured.
Rather than criticizing her, this was intended as a reflection of my emotional reaction to the reality.  
She was happy to recieve the gift (she powered it up, was using it, before I left) and did thank me several times.  However she never touched me before the departing hug & kiss I mentioned...  Upon reflection, she was carefully and wisely controling the situation.  
This is probably the third time (over 5 years) I have asked & recieved permission to stop by without including a play session.  In each case, dropping off a gift was involved...  in one other case building supplies she needed for her renovations.  
KK
   

CarlyLady See my TER Reviews 1895 reads
posted
15 / 17

It sounds about right...she probably intuited that you were hoping for a little bit more than a chat and a thank you. We can smell it from a mile away :)

It's actually a common situation for us...clients of mine have dropped things off, texted that they found my earring in their bedroom, and tried all manner of excuses not to leave after a session...I am sure that there was some faint (or not so faint) hope that I'd acquiesce to some gratis action in these cases. But where does one go from there? For the most part, I enjoy their company very much, but simply don't wish to abolish the business component for many reasons (I have a boyfriend, for one)...

I guess that quandaries like this are just the nature of the beast, for both sides.

Hope that you keep seeing her, and that you both keep enjoying each other for years to come :)

akissisjustakiss 746 reads
posted
16 / 17

I was not expecting a play session or even angling for it.  If I was, I would have had protection in my pocket.  Having my 'go bag' (including protection) in my car, instead of just my hobby phone, was just being prudent.  Ever since she asked me to stop & get some when I was enroute (strange neighborhood, delayed my arrival, not good selection), it has been my practice to bring them for our sessions.  It would be a 'beach' to have a lady want to do me & NOT have any protection!  After she inquired about a session & I declined, I certainly did not arrive expecting a freebee!

Except for the no contact until departure, everything which happened was just as I expected.  She did like the gift.  She did say 'thankyou' several times.  This is my head speaking.  
Without the physical contact...  I guess it felt just a little cold.  This is an emotional feeling.  I thought I was completely in control of my emotions...  I think I MOSTLY was.  I was surprised that it was not 100%.  That is all.  

I am not in L*** with her, nor she with me.  But it would take a heart of stone to not have any feelings after doing what we do over 5 years.  I will see her again, but she will not be the bext person I see.  
KK      

psych101 757 reads
posted
17 / 17

Having done this for a while, though nowhere near as long as the OP, I have encountered some similar situations. Something happens, something changes, in what was a wonderful (what is the right word for it?) arrangement up to that point. And that requires some sorting out, usually just on my part, because the lady is doing something that is completely normal and within her rights.

So I deal with it, but it does change things, and more often than not it si the end of the arrangement for me. I am not in this to "work things out" even if those things are just in my head and heart. I am here to have fun, to enjoy the pleasant company of lovely, charming ladies, and once it becomes something else, be it a jumble of emotions, misunderstandings to be resolved, issues to be worked out, or whatever, it is time to move on.

It is interesting to me that some posters interpret this as punishing the provider. It is not that at all. Sure, she loses a regular, a good source of income, but she probably would have been complaining about how he started acting weird, asking or demanding strange things, became a problem client and wondering how to gently cut him off.

And if she does contact him, asking where he has been, it is more likely because she is missing his contribution to her income than his sweet, old self, though that defiinitely is not how she will word it, and probably not how he will understand it.

Don't get me wrong - I understand that friendships and relationships do blossom, too, in this world. And in those situations, a hobbyist and provider can work together to "work things out," when something comes up, either between them, or in the respective lives of either one. But while it is natural to find onself thinking of a regular provider as a friend or lover, since that is the illusion she is working to create, P4P is a difficult foundation for a friendship or more.

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