Posted By: mrfisher
It will not be hard for a prosecutor to convince a judge that your comments to the police decoy who nabbed you were an attempt to get sex for pay.
By the same token, careful providers will shut off and black list prospective clients who discuss illicit activites.
The time for the discussion is when you are in the room, the envelope has been tendered, and the festivities are begun in earnest.
(still not a lawyer)
I suppose I could always be wrong.... and I do hope someone corrects my misconceptions if I am.... but if discussing sex that is in the fantasy realm and/or the uncompensated realm is somehow able to be twisted into a solicitation for an illegal act - why aren't there rampant busts made of Adult Friend Finder patrons? Or any of the other nine thousand "seeking sex" type of websites? Or every bar and dance club in town?
Hhmm... because it's *free* sex?
But so is this... if sex ever actually happened IRL. We all know ladies are compensated for their time and the pleasure of enjoying their company.
I would think that any bottom-of-the-barrel lawyer could make an astounding case for First Amendment violations if a person were arrested for DISCUSSING something. I would be curious how propositioning someone for free actual sex at AFF or in a bar is somehow more legal than even discussing free imaginary sex that neither party ever expects/contracts for/pays for to be translated into real life? Every piece of erotic literature would be an indictment hanging around the neck of the author! Penthouse would be in hot water for publishing all those "illegal" Forum Letters and the authors would all be in front of judges. Even the erotic fiction we have here on TER would cause a legal system meltdown with all the busts to be made! It's not as if LE doesn't know where to find all of us ladies, and through us, find you gents. So if simply writing about a fantasy encounter you had/would like to have one day (though certainly NOT on the day you meet with a charming young lady to hang out and chat) is enough... none of this lovely world would exist.
Heck, even people investigated for felonies.... big, serious things like hiring hit men, plotting murder, etc.... need to be EXPLICIT in their speech regarding the exact nature of the crime about to be committed before LE steps in. "I"ll pay you 10k to kill my husband" kind of thing. To my knowledge, there's no case to be had over someone crying in their beer at the local pub saying "I wish my wife were dead" (of course, if she turns up dead shortly thereafter then the words may make the sayer a prime suspect but without an actual murder having occurred, just saying that isn't going to produce any yucky outcomes). The former is clearly a solicitation for an illegal act while the latter is akin to discussions of fantasy sex, is it not? Talking about wishes and wants... Without a murder/*compensated sex* or some other illegal activity ACTUALLY happening.... and one being caught in flagrante delicto... speech is speech is speech, is it not?
I fear the lovely Ms. Cole may be wrong on this one.
First, as an aside, this is likely to be a question on which different states have different laws.
She is correct in that speech alone, unaccompanied by any illegal act, is almost certainly ok. The best example is probably phone sex, which seems to be legal everywhere. However, "solicitation" is itself an act, and one's speech connected to that act may easily be used as evidence of the intent to commit the act. If you never meet the voice on the phone, you should be fine. But once you're in a room with LE, I fear that having couched your previous speech couched in terms of "fantasies" is not necessarily likely to help.
The "free sex-bar" analogy is weak. Having sex is not illegal (there used to be all sorts of "interesting" laws, but I don't think those that may still exist are enforced). Exchanging sex for money is.
What makes sense to me isn't always the way the law sees things. I'd love someone with legal experience to chime in... Or perhaps this thread might be moved to the LC?
A Escort will never provide sexual services for money. You are in reality renting her companionship. That being said, during your time together should something sexual occur, it occurs between two consenting adults. If a escort has a menu, she has exposed herself to solicitation. BTW, all those disclaimers you read mean absolutely nothing and will not protect the escort or you in a court of law however, unless a escort is disturbing a neighborhood, it is very unlikely LE will attempt to arrest or prosecute. The resources needed to bust a escort is costly and seldom ends up in solicitation conviction (unless the escort has no common sense). It is normally pleaded down to a disturbing the peace charge. Solicitation bust normally occur on the street. Stings are much easier to setup with a undercover officer being wired. They normally arrest a number of people and have tape and video to present in court. In general, emails, phone contact with a escort is normally safe. Don't discuss sex. Again, you are renting her companionship. When you meet, and business is conducted, make your move. The Escort will tell you no if you are doing something she is not willing to do. No mean no so don't push the issue. You will know what to expect if they have reviews on sites like this.
Not a lawyer, but you cannot legally discuss "services" at any time, with the interpretation that it's "only" a fantasy.. the DA will eat you alive should it ever come to that. I'm not a lawyer, but what you may deem "loopholes" in the law, they will dissect and eat through unfortunately. I am one of those providers that if a potential client asks about services at any point in time, I will end the conversation, and never answer again. I have tons of reviews and so do many other ladies.. you can basically glean what info you need from those.. questions about what she will and won't do just aren't common courtesy and not proper etiquette, IMHO.
Now, if she's not reviewed anywhere, you could always ask.. but then you may have more to worry about than what she will and won't do once you arrive.. now that you've "solicited" her over the phone, in some instances, that's all LE needs.
I am pretty sure that being there with cash discussing a menu of sexual acts is enough to get you busted in any jurisdiction in the US of A, even if you have not actually offered to pay for them, and even if you both say it is just a little make believe game you like to play. Corresponding about it via email or text, or discussing it on the phone and then showing up with cash is no better. You would not be the first to try that and if it did work the only way they would ever bust anyone would be if the money was handed over and the act committed.
(not a lawyer either, but I have a fantasy about it).
If it is not on the menu either in a review or on the web site, I prefer to meet the lady once and share our fantasies (following Ms. Cole's lead here) and then either once our fantasies have crossed certain lines, or perhaps after we have concluded our make believe playtime, ask if I might pretend to do something else now or the next time.
If you are in the room with some cash and LE is there with you, you are close to 90% of the way to being busted, but anything you say can be held against you, and you can be damned sure discussing specific acts and prices will seal that deal. The best defense is to say as little as possible until you are sure everything is cool. Hi, kiss, talk about other stuff, play a bit and then talk about other games you have in mind.
Zig
