I don't understand the risk factor for getting arrested. I can see if a provider wanted verification so she doesn't end up with ted bundy part 2.
But as for getting arrested i was under the belief that unless sexual acts and a price is stated its not against the law.
So if i walk into a room put down a envelope for a hour or more of time and proceed to sleep with the woman it is fine since i was only paying for time not what we did in that time correct?

Not correct at all.

no sense getting into debates when you don't have to

If you truly don't understand the fact that paying a woman for sex is illegal you may want to avoid this hobby altogether.

I'm not an attorney, but let's say you walk into a sting.  You greet the provider (who is actually a cop), then drop a cash-filled envelope  on the bed/counter/nightstand.  That's probably enough to prove  'intent' to solicit a prostitute.  It's kind of lIke bringing a suitcase filled with cash to a drug deal ("Hey, I'm not here to buy drugs, I just like carrying around a suitcase filled with cash").  

Try telling a judge/jury that you like to visit strangers in their hotel rooms just so you can drop a cash-filled envelope on the nightstand.   Good luck with that.  --z

The accused has the right to “face” their accuser in a court of law.

 Just as traffic enforcement cameras have demonstrably erode the above precept for the reason of "revenue" for deficit addled cities; so too does the ubiquitous usurping of law and procedure by police in this context.

Best legal challenge a provider can offer is to preempt a possible arrest and the law's usurping in the first place.

When a lady has reviews, and a website that states rates and links to the reviews that list prices and activities, simply agreeing to meet, indicating the reviews are "real" or the like, can be seen as an offer of prostitution.

Showing up to the room, is all that is required.
No envelope needs to be put anywhere.  

The acts and price doesn't need to stated explicitly when she has a menu and prices on her web site, when there are prices and activities in reviews. If she indicates the information on her site, or in her profile here is correct that can be enough.  Even that isn't necessarily required as the argument can be made that multiple reviews all stating activity is corroboration and all she has to do is say "I'm Miss X" using the name associated with the reviews, web site, profile, etc.

On the clients side, asking about the reviews, saying he saw the reviews, or profile or web site can be seen as soliciting prostitution.

That all may not hold up well in court, but cops don't have to worry if the person is convicted.
The cops make the arrest the DA's office worries about convictions.

As far as you only paying for time and not what you do during that time, that is semantics...and it isn't gonna save anyone's ass.

You have just made a good argument for no reviews and not mentioning anything as far as menu items or industry acronyms on a website.

And as you said...maybe not a conviction but sure as hell an arrest. Food for thought....

WebT:  If your assertion is true, then any provider with a P411 profile or TER listing is already guilty.  Which means EVERY P411 or TER provider can be busted for prostitution right now.  Since that hasn't happened, it's fair to assume that the legal threshold for solicitation/prostitution is a little higher than what you're stating.

Although state law may vary, a  general definition of solicitation is below.  

*****************************************************************
From West's Encyclopedia of American Law:

"The crime of solicitation is completed if one person intentionally entices, advises, incites, orders, or otherwise encourages another to commit a crime. The crime solicited need not actually be committed for solicitation to occur.

When law enforcement agencies seek to curtail prostitution, they use decoy operations. A person who offers to perform a sex act with an undercover officer for money can be arrested for solicitation of prostitution. Police decoys are also used to nab customers. When a person looking to pay for sex approaches a decoy officer and makes, by words or gestures, this request, the person can be arrested for solicitation of prostitution."
***********************************************************

For the most part cops aren't concerned with making the case stick, just getting an arrest.

Cops can arrest a person for almost any reason. It depends on what their agenda is for that day and time.

By and large when they arrest escorts or clients they want to embarrass them and scare them. The cops know it is a simple misdemeanor and therfore are not going to put too much effort into making it stick. They just want it out of their backyard.

that you haven't spoken to any ladies that have been busted.

Every lady I know that has been busted (granted not many) all got busted for walking into room.  Just walking into the room.  No envelopes or money changed hands, no activities happened, no discussion of promised activities for a certain price. They walked into the room.

Now, what did LE have once the ladies walked into that room?
Printouts of their web sites and their reviews.

Yes, every lady with a TER profile could be busted right now...and it is happening. The thing is the cop has to make an appointment and the lady has to show up.  That is why ladies screen, because all they have to do is walk into a room.  

Why do they have to walk into the room?
Because prostitution is kind of like public drunkenness, you have to be caught in the act to be arrested for it.  So, having reviews doesn't make them guilty, showing up for an appointment does, then the reviews are used against her.

Lady X has X number of reviews stating she does activities A, B, and C.
Cop calls and asks for Lady X, and sets up an appointment.
When Lady X arrives she is busted for being the woman in the reviews and showing up for the appointment.

It really is that simple...
ask ladies that have been busted.  

As for your Encyclopedia entry...
words and gestures?
yeah that's streetwalking...
like I said the internet has changed things.

The words now can be, "I saw your ad on CL".
The offer to perform the act is in saying she is the woman in the reviews and will meet with him.

A question I have wondered about with screening services is the possibility of LE getting a non LE person (friend, neighbor, etc) to sign up with a screening service.  They confirm he is legit as to screening info and put him on list.  The LE guy sets up the appointments using that name and ID to get the bust.  

Yes, it may be more trouble than it is worth but in a day you could hit a number of ladies.  

I figure being a senior citizen is the best screeing I have since not many LE are this old.

You're assumption is incorrect.  I know a provider who was busted a few months ago and she described it as follows:

She posted an ad in Backpage & a guy answered her ad.
She set up an in-call and the BP client came to her hotel room.  

He asked her how much for a BJ, she named a price.
He then asked her how much for FS, and she named a price.  
Then he identified himself as a police officer & arrested her.  

I don't know where you're from, but in my hometown:
YOU MUST OFFER AN EXCHANGE OF SEX FOR MONEY.  

Maybe you should move.  --z

Just go over to the Legal Corner board  and read a few threads. The maniacs have taken over the asylum.  --z

I have known many girls that just walked into the room and were cuffed, had all print outs of her ads and reviews. She even tried to fight it and lost, her reviews were held against her. She said nothing via phone or in person, she just showed up.

So please Get to know more then ONE girl this happened to before you make your assumption. Every place is different and every case is unique, doesn't mean anyone here is right nor wrong.

Yes Pointing to your reviews posting that they are true is an admission that what was written about you will happen when You show up.

Maybe you should get an education- SVK

there is no way of knowing if he wouldn't have still busted her had she not answered or played dumb as to what he was asking.

Maybe he just asked to see if she would answer so he could testify as to what she said, maybe he was recording it so he could put that into evidence...
maybe he just did that to shore up the arrest and he didn't need it for the arrest.

Just because he arrested her after she answered doesn't prove that he couldn't have arrested her if she hadn't answered.

Better ladies assume that all that have to do is walk into the room, it will keep them safer if they worry about if the guy is LE or not before she shows up, and doesn't just count on not specifically answering questions saving her ass.


As for moving...nah I like living in Sin City, and since I know ladies from here, LA and NYC that have all been busted for just showing up, not sure where I would move to. *grin*

If what you're saying is true, and you're saying the same thing as WebT,  then doesn't it follow that arrest warrants can be issued for every provider on TER, every provider on P411, etc (?)

Why does the provider even have to show up?  According to you, she didn't make any solicitation when she arrived.  If intent can be proven from an ad, then why can't LE  go to your home and bust you.  Or maybe 'showing up' proves intent for that particular case.    
Interesting, but I'll concede the point.  --z

Why do they have to walk into the room?
Because prostitution is kind of like public drunkenness, you have to be caught in the act to be arrested for it.  So, having reviews doesn't make them guilty, showing up for an appointment does, then the reviews are used against her.


The cops can't just go to the ladies' homes because there is no proof that because she did it before she will do it again.  A lady could walk into a police station and say "Yesterday I took money for sex" and there isn't much if anything the cops can do.  But, if she has reviews saying she does X for Y and then arrives at the appointment she is seen as committing the crime.

That, and I doubt the police would put an APB out for "SoVeryKarrie"  I highly doubt that is her real name, or is listed on any rental agreements or deeds.  The next step would be what getting a subpoena  for TER's data, then matching up IP's, then contact all the ISPs to find out who had that IP on that date and make sure it wasn't someone catching a ride on an open wifi connection and that she was who had logged in to TER from that IP at that time?  Oh, and again just because she would post on this board, or have reviews doesn't mean she would show up for an appointment.

She has to show up...but that is all she has to do.

if you arrive in the same room with them.  
skb

Honestly the law is a bit grey accord to what I understand