Stupid question, but I am still going to ask it.  I have never used P411 before.  Can I use it to verify a provider?  What sort of information can I see about a provider?  Is it worthwhile to joint if you are already a member of TER?

I tentatively scheduled an appointment with a provider, but she only has a few reviews on TER.

To use it, you must be a member.  To see provider info, you must be a member.  It is a verification site for providers to verify that potential clients are safe to see, but those must be members of the site in order to be verified by P411.

It is worthwhile to join if you are new to the hobby, but you will need someone to vouch for you or provide P411 with some personal info in order to obtain membership.  Gina, the owner, will work with you to get you verified if you do not have a provider reference to get you in.

LLAP,
Swim

If you want to be sure she is legit and not LE or a scam, then yes, it's a great tool for that.  

The info you get about a gal depends on how much she puts in her profile, most of the ladies fill it out completely, but some are a little more shy about giving out their stats, like age and measurements.  

It is a great service that compliments TER in my opinion. The main benefit for us guys is it streamlines the screening process allowing the ladies to vet us guys pretty quickly and easily. There are a few ladies that will require more info, but they are the minority.

P411 is a verification site.  It's good because it helps you book with women who have been vetted and their vetting process of you tells women you are most likely on the up and up.  When you've seen someone through the site you can get an OK from them that resides on your profile, so women can check with gals who've seen you to be sure you're good.
TER is a review site.  It's great to gather information about women beyond what you'll find on P411. You simply have to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Since you have 20 reviews here, the only surprise is you don't already know this.  You should be well beyond newbie status.

If you will do a quick check of his reviews you will see they have all come since March of THIS year. He most certainly is still a newbie, it's the reason I have chided him from time to time for "giving" advice on this forum when he should still be "asking" for it.

Overall, I am certainly not a newbie.  Because I have posted 20 reviews doesn't mean that I am new to this - it just means that I have posted 20 reviews.  For years I never posted reviews.   Recently, I started using TER as a VIP member.  Previously, I used backpage and a few other crummy sites and then cross referenced with TER.  Then I got smarter and got a VIP TER account.  Much safer and much more efficient.  Too many bad experiences that almost made me throw in the towel.   Here I am just asking a basic question about P411.  I value efficiency and I am not sure that I see value in having both TER and P411 (as a client) given that TER seems to have all of the functionality/ benefits that P411 has.  In other words, I don't see a material difference between a TER referral/white list and a P411 okay?  It just seems burdensome to maintain multiple accounts unless you are a provider and want to increase your reach/marketing.  

There is a huge difference between P 411, (a verification site) and TER (a review site)

The two site provide very different functions and when used together properly can ensure a safe and easy way to enjoy what we do.

P-411 okays alone are most often all the screening info needed when booking a provider from that site, regardless of what some of the women here keep claiming. I have booked hundreds of women through the P 411 site and it's maybe one in a hundred that have asked me to jump through any additional hoops. TER Whitelists are quite a different matter. Very few ladies will accept your TER White Lists as their ONLY method of screening, WL's are helpful, but it's a rare woman that will accept your WL's as the only way of screening you.

I quite often make "same day" appointments, without P 411 this would be almost impossible to not only find a provider I am interested in, but to be able to both contact her and get screened for a short notice appointment an hour or two later. Once you know how to properly use the system in any decent sized market, you can wake up in the morning, decide you are "in the mood" and find a brand new provider that you had never even heard of until that day and be between her legs a couple of hours later. TER is NOT designed to facilitate that kind of date. P 411 makes it easy. TER just makes it easy to make sure you that the hottie you found on P 411 is really all she is cracked up to be.

I have self awareness and don't get defensive.   I ask for advice when I recognize that I have an incomplete understanding.   I give advice when I know enough about the topic to do so.  I ask questions to see how others think so that I can formulate or refine my own thoughts or position.

I still don't follow why a white list is any different from an okay.   In both instances a lady is vouching for your legitimacy.  

and can only be requested by a member that has actually had a session with said provider.

A Whitelist can be given out to any member a provider chooses, for any reason she sees fit. I have had several Whitelists given to me (which I have since had removed) by providers I have never even met. and by one who I only met in a social setting (M&G) who WL'd me because of my board persona.(go figure)

"Most" P 411 providers will accept multiple P 411 okays as screening. "Most" TER providers will NOT accept TER White Lists in lieu of screening.  

Don't shoot the messenger, I am simply stating things "as they are" not how I want them to be. If you want to argue rather than listen, ask this same question on the GD board and I will oblige you.

I would think that it would be extremely rare for a lady to white list someone that they have never met.  I assume that 95%+ of white lists come after a review.  PMs and/or the review itself provide enough for the lady to recall the encounter.  Separately, some ladies might white list a guy after an appointment that she felt went well, perhaps to encourage a positive review.  That probably happens maybe 1-2% of the time.  A lady white listing someone that she has never metpies definitely an anomaly and probably happens significantly less than 1% of the time.  

There are various rationales providers give for preferring P411 Okays to Whitelists (not all of which I pretend to understand):

1). Guys have to be screened to get on P411, and your ID is attached to real-life numbers. TER is the Wild West in comparison. (Whether providers also have to jump through hoops to get on P411, I wouldn't know.)  

2). A cloud of suspicion hovers over provider-client relations on TER. Since it is a review site, there's always the possibility of quid-pro-quo. Some providers wouldn't put it past other providers to Whitelist Ted Bundy in exchange for a 10/10 score.  

3). You have to actually see a provider to request an Okay, and baseless requests can get you punished. There's no such system on TER. Of course, a P411 girl could lie and act like you met when you didn't, but there isn't as direct a motivation for doing so as on TER.  

4). As a provider put it once, and I paraphrase, "TER is for clients; P411 is for providers m" With which I don't agree I wouldn't even say it's equal, as I still think it leans towards clients. But there's a perception, especially among jaded providers, that TER is a woman-hating Boys Club (or Boys and Select Few Girls Club), and they don't trust anything coming out of it.

-- Modified on 4/21/2017 12:41:52 PM

Much good advice above. As always some bickering that we could do without. Your question is a valid one and not fully answered it would seem.  I'm hoping a bit of a summary might help, so I'll do my best.  It largely comes down to a difference in the purpose of the two sites and what they offer, so that's my approach:

p411 Is Primarily About Verification:
It is a bit more provider oriented as a site that verifies clients through some background and employment checking. What providers see is that you are a member (your identity is verified, and your are who you say you are).  Your employment is verified (serving as a secondary and independent verification) .  Okays from providers, which show that you were a good client.  You can see that this gives the provider several valuable reassurances.

Providers also see you profile.  Basic stats, a picture if you provide one, some questions that you answer, and a bio written by you.

The corresponding advantage to you is that once established, you can generally be quickly accepted as legitimate, especially with some number of Okays (3+ tends to be sufficient for most providers).
The providers are also verified, so there is a much higher level of legitimacy than say backpage where anyone can post an ad.

On p411 you can search provider listings by a number of criteria including location and the typical physical descriptors (Age, height, body type, ethnicity, etc.; plus a list of services and details).  A very useful tool, imo. I can search for a very specific type of provider, or just browse a given city.  

A provider's page page will include a few pictures, contact info, personal website if they have one, rates, a profile, a written bio, and links to ratings. To me, the p411 listing gives me a base of legitimacy, and a starting point for my own research.  

TER Is Most Useful as a Rating site.  It is our (client's) chance to share information.
To the best of my knowledge there is no rating/review of providers on p411, only links to reviews, most typically TER.
So there's your transitions and the reason that I, and most commenting here, suggest subscribing to both.

You are more familiar with TER, so as you know the ratings can be invaluable in giving you information about a provider you are interested in.  I find the ratings to be remarkably consistent, i.e. a provider's ratings will typically cluster within a couple of points (validity, in statistics terms). You get info on the accuracy of the provider's photos, the description, services, and more as you know. As importantly the narratives tend to describe the provider's personality and attitude.  

So you know what this person looks like, he quality of their service, and how they act/treat their clients.  Try getting that on backpage.  I don't see providers all that often, but when I do I want 9's and 10's, and that's always what I've gotten.  'Nuff said.

As an incidental, to be complete, you can do a convenient search on TER, as with p411.  I find them to be complimentary.

Looking back to your question:  
Can you verify a provider?  You get a level of certainty not provided elsewhere. It may not be iron clad. Add your own research to your level of satisfaction.  It is p411's strength and a good enough reason to join.

Is it worthwhile in addition to TER?  Clearly, my answer is yes, per all of the above.  If it spares you one hassle/disappointment, or leads you to one exceptionally positive experience, it's worth it.  I forget the exact cost, but it's, what, maybe less than 1/2 hour of provider rates.  Huge bargain.  Using p411, TER, and other sources will make it far more likely that you get what you want, and increase your bang for the buck tenfold.

You mention a provider with only a few reviews.  Your call.  If they're consistent, that helps.  Check the reviewer's other reviews, that can help.  Do your own research.  I've know excellent providers that have only a few reviews, even though those reviews are 9's and 10's.  What gives?  In talking to providers, I'm surprised at the low percentage of clients that bother to give reviews ( and I'm talking 9's and 10's).  

So I'll end, if anybody's made it this far, a personal plea;  Take the time to review.  It is our most valuable resource and the fairest way to reward the good providers, as well as warn the rest of us against the bad.

I have had SEVERAL bogus White Lists, and obviously NONE of them came after a review as I don't write reviews. You might also check out the WL's of a frequent poster on this board "Bigpapasan", now I doubt his WL are from women he has never met, but his numbers blow your theory out of the water as his WL's exceed his reviews by a factor of ten to one.

and just where are you getting your figures from? It sounds like you are simply pulling them out of your ass.

Do you want advice on how to get the best of the tools available to you, or you do you simply want to argue based on the way you think things "should" be instead of the way they actually are?

I am just making conclusions based on a pattern of observations.  That person is probably an anomaly.  He probably doesn't like to provide reviews and accumulated several white lists over the years.  For most people, though, I think that white lists generally follow the reviews.  And for a small percentage of people, they may get a white list w/o providing a review.  I don't think that means that those white lists are bogus.  Admittedly, this is all speculation.  Everyone will form their own opinions based on their own observations and experiences.  

Apparently much of this has already been discussed:

https://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?BoardID=12&SortBy=DateCreated%20desc&SearchType=1&DayFrom=4&DayTo=0&MessageID=898147&frmSearch=1

Including the relative benefits of P 411, but it doesn't sound like you were really asking a question about P 411 at all, even though you have admittedly NEVER used it. It sounds more like you had already made up your mind that is was of no benefit to you and were asking for validation of your presumption.

If you had already made up your mind, why did you bother wasting all of our time asking the question?

Your actual question was a valid one, your refusal to accept any of the answers, most of them very good and quite helpful answers at that, is quite another matter.

I appreciate all of the responses.  Insightful.

do so with an OPEN mind and not be defensive to answers they may read that they don't think are accurate.

It is a proven fact (others have stated it and I concur) that P411 OK's are "more valuable" than TER white list referrals. Yes, I am a TER VIP member as well as a P411 lifetime member and have been members of both for over a dozen years.

Keep in mind, TER is not the only review site out there and is not prevalent in certain parts of the US. P411 is more widely accepted all across the US. Depending on where you live, P411 can be a very good asset to have. This is especially true if you travel to other parts of the US where TER might not be very useful.  

Search on the Gen Discussion Board. What you think of the White List vs the P411 Ok doesn't matter. It's what the providers think of them that matter.

Yes, White List and P411 ok is given by a provider vouching for the client. But if even one White List is given to a TER member the provider didn't see they all become suspect. Do the search. You will find discussions where providers say they don't/won't depend on a White List alone because they can be given without having seen the TER member.  

Yes, a white list helps. . I have them and they have been beneficial.  

I agree with the others in that you have been given good reasons and explanations about the differences in White List and P411 but you have decided to conitnue to question. That is your perogative but agreeing to disagree is OK.

According to the TER White List FAQ:

What is the TER White List?
Everyone talks about Blacklists. At TER, we prefer to be positive versus negative so we have created the White List. What is the White List? The White List is a list of providers who, after you have seen them, have personally vouched for you.

This states that you have to have seen the provider.  

You've received many great answers here.  Time to either join or not. A trial membership is $99.  You may not get all the benefits others have mentioned, but you'll be out less than half of one of you session fees.  If you don't like it, GaGa will refund your money or Jake will make it up to you with the discount double check.

-- Modified on 4/22/2017 7:04:10 AM

His first is from January and there's one from February.  That said, most are from March and I don't think I've ever seen so many in one month,  not even from the infamous guy who had more than 1,000 reviews.
I guess he's been so busy writing reviews he's got no time for anything else.  Anyway, the rest of my advice stands.

1.  When I first starting writing reviews I didn't change the month from what was prepopulated.  
2.  I am still not sure that I see a significant difference between a white list and an ok.  
3.  I will try P411 and make up my own mind.

-- Modified on 4/22/2017 10:03:53 AM

Some girls don't make a distinction, some do.  That said, a girl can White List you without having seen you.  That is not supposed to happen on P411.  Most girls take a P411 OK more seriously for screening than a White List.

A lady isn't supposed to white list someone unless they have seen them.  Per above:

"According to the TER White List FAQ:
What is the TER White List?  
Everyone talks about Blacklists. At TER, we prefer to be positive versus negative so we have created the White List. What is the White List? The White List is a list of providers who, AFTER YOU HAVE SEEN THEM, have personally vouched for you."  

That is true. Unfortunately, not all of the rules are followed here, or taken seriously by some. We all are aware of the fact that a good percentage of reviews are completely fake. Therefore, it wouldn't make much sense to take the Whitelist too seriously. At least, it can be a way for a provider to check with the providers that Whitelisted the person, but that's really no different than checking references. A seasoned provider will not use TER as the only verification method. But they will gladly accept your username to read any reviews you've written. Most providers take this site with a grain of salt, especially regarding verification. P411 is where most of them consider a more legitimate source.

That's what it says, but there's no system in place to check. I don't know if P411 has any penalties for providers falsely Okaying clients they've never seen. (How would they know? The client's not gonna tell.) But I do at least it has a system n place for penalizing clients who request Okays from providers they haven't met. (Providers will tell, because they don't want to be bothered.) At least that's something.

Also, like I said, there's an incentive for falsely Whitelisting someone that just doesn't exist--ditectly, at least--with P411.

How do I know this?  I have a white list from a girl I've never seen.  And I know of other examples.

Thanks

You can view who has accessed your profile on P411.  As a client, you are asked to report unauthorized views.  I think this is to prevent the multiple use of client id's, but I also believe that P411 wants to keep clients from receiving 'unsolicited' offers.  If there are false OK's, then a provider likely would need to view a profile, which would show up as a view, and could be reported.

Why would I report a false 'OK'?  Because I would not want that provider vouching for me.  Ladies do contact one another for additional info. I would not want someone on my OK list that I have never seen being contacted and giving inaccurate information.

-- Modified on 4/22/2017 6:06:46 PM

GaGa posted in another thread about a lady who had a weight requirement.  I've undergone the same 'screening'.  It is rare, but does happen.

-- Modified on 4/22/2017 6:18:56 PM

I've also seen ads that state that you must be "height and weight proportional."  

I don't know about 50lbs., but some providers have weight cutoffs, yes. Others want to know ahead of time even if it's not a deal-breaker.  

P411 doesn't require clients to say whether or not they're overweight, by the way. Answering is optional.

I was thinking in terms of the client asking for the false Okay. If one came unsolicited, that would be another case. Does that happen often? It's never happened to me. I have heard of unsolicited Whitelist referrals, but not Okays.

The client has the option of answering yes, no, or leaving it blank, as with other questions as well.  If one of these questions are part of your screening criteria and they are not answered, you can follow up.  If the answer is not satisfactory to you, you can decline seeing that client.  I am sure that you have other screens that resulted in you not seeing a client.  For some it might be weight, I think you mentioned 420 before, or just a bad feeling about how you were approached.  You can't regulate an illegal business, so you are free to see the clients you want to.  My money my not be green enough to overcome some screening criteria, but that's life.  

Providers are prohibited from giving okays, even if they have seen a client, UNLESS the client makes an actual request for an okay. Clients of course are prohibited from asking for an okay unless they have actually had a session with a provider.

I really think people need to be able to pass a test on how this world of ours works before being allowed to answer questions posed here sometimes. There are some very seasoned, and quite helpful veterans on this board that do their very best to help out the newbs by giving helpful and "accurate" advice, and then there are others who seem to want to make it as difficult as possible for us to do so.

PLEASE people, if you don't know the answer to a question, Don't simply GUESS at how you "think" it should be, just let the people who actually know the "right" answer to a question answer it and quit confusing the issue.

Thank you.  And PLEASE people, please do not try to bait people into arguing over these boards.  There were some good comments here --- sometimes it just took a little push back and/or time to tease them out.  

+1

" Guys have to be screened to get on P411, and your ID is attached to real-life numbers. TER is the Wild West in comparison. (Whether providers also have to jump through hoops to get on P411, I wouldn't know.)  "

We do. Many hoops. P411 is def more for our safety.

Definitely get P411.  It is much safer and has an internal e-mail interface so if you do not want to use a regular e-mail.   I am someone who did not use it at first and then a provider introduced me to it and it made a HUGE difference.....Experiences are much better and less stressful.  When I first started I was always LE paranoid.  Now, much less so.