Hi, I have another question. I signed up for an RS2K account. What does it mean when a provider says something like P411 member with references? If you are a P411 member does that include your reference? Or do you also need additional references. I have never seen anyone before so I have no references. Do I need a P411 membership also or will the rs2k be enough? thanks

RS2K is most popular in the midwest, and not so much in other areas of the country.  To join P411, you either need a provider to sponsor you or talk to them and offer up some personal information.  They have a pretty good rep for working with guys to get them verified.  Once you are a member, and see a member provider, you can ask her if she will give you an OK on the site. just like a reference on DateCheck.  Some providers will want more than just the basic membership in the site.  P411 allows providers indicate on their profile if they are 'newbie friendly'.  Look for those.

Swim

Each time you meet with a provider on P411 you get an "OK" (I think) that doesn't replace a reference with all ladies, but it helps.  

You need to find some women that are newbie friendly and are willing to give references (most gals are fine with giving references). Write a few reviews, and just get established in the "hobby". This is often difficult and can be frustrating.  

Good luck!

P.S. when you do get a "date" shower, brush teeth and breath mints are a good idea too.

just because you saw a member provider.  She is not obligated to give it to you, just as you are not required to post a review.  If you want an "OK", you have to ask if she will do it for you.  Even then, there is no guarantee that she will.  I'm still waiting for a provider to give me a WL referral here, she's having trouble navigating the site to do it.

Swim

Okay, I visited a provider listed on here based on the reviews of what I was looking for. I wrote my first review, but there are no juicy details. I didn't get offered anything at the end. I asked, but was turned down. I guess I must suck because every review she has includes the HE. But maybe those were people that were regulars that she came to trust. Anyhow, this is much tougher than I thought. I can't even find a HE. LOL

http://www.theeroticreview.com/reviews/show.asp?id=230989

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Thanks for the clarification.

That's why I wrote "I think" in parenthesis. I never had to ask for one so I assumed it was (I thought) automatic.

My perception of a WL is it means a little more than just an "OK". Again I might be wrong, but WL seems to be you have proven to be very reliable, although I have got them after only one session as well.  

By the way, why is your "name" in a different color!

The problem might be that Massage gals "go with their gut" when seeing someone and decide what to do (or not do) during the session.

I had one provider tell me three times "you look like a cop" we did have fun, but wasn't the best experience (probably for either of us).

Try to relax, after over 5 years of hobbying, I still am never sure anything is going to happen when seeing someone new.

Better luck next time

My hygiene is outstanding as are my manners. I shower twice a day most days. I shave everyday. I workout 5 times a week. I look around 27 and I'm almost 40 LOL. I'm 5'8 and 165 lbs. I might have made her nervous because I was nervous. I have only had sex twice in my life. And it was years ago. Like over 10. I have social phobia and anxiety around women, and I'm not used to being naked around women. So, I think I made her uncomfortable.  So, I wanted to start off with something simple like a handjob. I don't think I could handle a sex session off the bat.  

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My advice would be "don't push it." You got naked in front of a provider, that sounds like a big step considering where you're coming from. If you liked your provider, visit her a few more times. Next time, just go with the expectation of a naked massage only. This will help to build trust between the two of you too. As you start to feel a little more comfortable, try rubbing her leg with your hand a little bit while you are still on your stomach. Just see how things unfold. Don't ask for anything explicitly unless she brings it up.

And yeah, working out as much as you do might lead a provider to peg you as LE

Thanks, but I don't think I will go back. I don't want to spend a lot of money and not get a handjob. I really don't have a high income level at this time. Plus, I would not feel right rubbing her leg without her asking. I wouldn't want to offend her. That just isn't my way of doing things. I need someone who is going to lead me so to speak. I am not going to make the first move. I thought maybe this girl below. She is very attractive. I am not 411 verified though. Will my RS2K be enough. I have tried to contact her, but she hasn't responded. Does anyone has experience with her? Her last review was in June and she doesn't answer her phone.

http://www.theeroticreview.com/reviews/show.asp?id=83331

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Some place more importance on ref's or OK's from the verification sites, it's up to them.  

My name is a different color because I am the host of this board.  I was the moderator until admin got rid of all member moderators, and decided to self-moderate the site.  They, for what reason I have no idea, asked if I would be the host of this board.  I said sure, why not.  As you will see, I am not the only poster answering questions.  There are a number of members who post answers besides me.  I refer to them as my highly unpaid assistants, LOL.  BTW, I'm unpaid as well.

As an aside, this is the only board where my name is in a different color.  When I post anywhere else, I'm just like the rest of you.

Swim

After reading about your difficulties, I think you need to find an experienced full service provider that will understand and guide you through the process. It might cost a bit more, but you should be able to get what you want.

Don't give up, but don't contact the same person more than a couple of times. For some reason many women will not let you know they aren't interested, they just refuse to answer.

Good luck.

i I wanted to offer my 2 cents on the "anxiety around women" part of this. It sounds like you don’t do the correct amount of eye contact. If you stare into a lady's eyes too much, you will really freak her out. If you don't look into her eyes enough, she will think you are trying to hide something. Either way, she won't feel safe, and you won't get what you want. THE best places to go to work this out are Twin Peaks and Hooters. Hooters is usually better, because the music is quieter, making it easier to talk to the waitresses. I invented a little game that I play when I go there:  

The ground rules are that I am not going to "hit on" her. I can't touch her anywhere except gently on her hand. I can't call her "babe", "chick", or anything other then her name. I can’t use some silly line to break the ice like: “Are you from Tennessee?” I need to find out at least one thing about her that I didn’t know before. (Things like where she is from, how she likes working there, If she likes to watch football, etc.) I score myself based on how comfortable she seemed to be, and how much she seemed to like me. Sometimes I even flip over the customer copy of my receipt, and write a brief description of her, and that one thing that I found out about her. This helps me remember, if I get her again next time. A few more tips:

Try to smile, and look happy.
Go when it isn’t so busy.  
Tip generously.  
Go on different days, and sit in different places, to try to meet all the girls that work there. Don’t get too comfortable with just the one girl.
Don’t worry if she dosen’t respond positively. It could be you, or it could be her. She may just be having a bad day.
Remember you goal is just to get her to feel safe, and to "like" you, not to end up in bed with her. This takes a lot of the pressure away.
There are a lot of books on how to meet people, and how to make friends. Get one of those, they will have a lot more tips on how to get her to “like” you.

Once you gain the confidence that you can meet a lady, and get her to feel safe, and to like you, then you can go back to providers. You can continue practicing on these girls in the more intimate settings. Hopefully you live near a Hooters, like I said it’s the best, because they hire outgoing girls, who like to meet new people, and they encourage them to interact with the customers

Wow. This entire thread has been a real eye-opener. It never occurred to me that some gentlemen may experience such anxiety at the prospect of meeting/being with a woman. Always thought THEY were the confident ones.  

Have to admit, I run the gamut of emotions(nervous, apprehensive, "amped-up", etc.) before meeting anyone new, but for reasons I can't explain, the moment I open the door and in walks a real human being, not a faceless stranger, I feel relieved and genuinely excited to make that person feel welcome. Strange phenomena.....

Enough of my meanderings. John, I'm truly sorry you've been disappointed. You seem like a decent guy who simply wants to enjoy spending time with women. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, sounds quite well-adjusted and healthy to me. I hope you continue to ask questions and learn from the people who so generously respond here. I'm learning from your experiences too. Thanks for that.

Hope you connect with the new lady you're attracted to. She looks absolutely lovely!
                                                           

If I'm a provider how do the hobbyists give me an ok if I'm not yet a member what is that process like let's say I meet a guy he is a p411 member and he wants to give me an ok like what is that scenario about because last night I went to become part of p411 and it said to be a provider that I have to have 2 references but I didn't understand how do I use those references if I'm not a member yet sorry if this question is dumb I just need to get on p411 ASAP so want to get it right the first time it's not like you meet a p411. Guy every day to give you an ok so when I do meet one I want to be able to get that ok ......
Xoxo kayden