Okay so I'm not sure how many of you read my post about an old ATF of mine that I booked a date with earlier this month. The story was that I needed to change from outcall to incall. I messaged her a week and a half before the scheduled date to let her know, but never heard back from her. I sent another message with a polite "hope everything is okay", still no response.  

You should have notified her at once, because it sounds like you did OK her getting a room for that Friday.

I mean in the interest of anticipation for a date with her the last thing I'd wanna do is feel like I'm being taken for granted. That's why I searched out for someone else figuring that whenever she would ever decide to get back to me I'd let her know I booked with someone else. I'm having a hard time seeing any point she'd make because I had already (in a nice way) told her I'd need her to get back to me because I needed time to research someone else. I was not rude about it. I didn't say "LOOK thiso is my 3rd and final message".

1) If I'd initially agreed to do, say, a 1-hour outcall - and then someone changed it to incall - I'd be very annoyed. Hotels are expensive.  

She initially asked for the outcall not me. Hotels here in Oakbrook might run about $50 for a three star. She doesn't have different outcall rates as incall so if she's banking on keeping the entire $350 an hour then me OFFERING more $450 for 1.5 hour rate for 2 hours plus covering part of the hotel is think is more than fair. Especially considering that her only weak argument was that she turned down potentials (which is none of my business), but initially taking home $350 now to now be taking home $425 is more $$$ when I do the math.

...you in the palm of her hand and no matter what she did, her faithful puppy dog would always return.

I do my homework when it comes to $$$. Your link is not incorrect, but on Hotwire a 3 star hotel could be booked for $49 at the time I first contacted her. Given the fact that I gave her ample time and notice of the change, she missed an opportunity. Also I've out called with her before where I had to pay for the hotel in the same area and I paid that same $49 plus a $25 dollar refundable hold for incidentals.

Posted By: Debra_Hollander

Posted By: sljackson

She initially asked for the outcall not me. Hotels here in Oakbrook might run about $50 for a three star. She doesn't have different outcall rates as incall so if she's banking on keeping the entire $350 an hour then me OFFERING more $450 for 1.5 hour rate for 2 hours plus covering part of the hotel is think is more than fair. Especially considering that her only weak argument was that she turned down potentials (which is none of my business), but initially taking home $350 now to now be taking home $425 is more $$$ when I do the math.

   
 As you know, I'm in the same general area so as soon as I read what you thought the average hotel price is, I had to go check!  
   
 Right this second, the lowest nightly rate is $84 before tax.  Add on taxes and fees, that's about another $10.  
   
 Depending on what time of day you wanted to meet, she might have actually had to get the room for TWO NIGHTS.  
 I know, because often when I only have one client for the day and he wants a 2-hour date at 12pm, that's exactly what I have to do.  
   
 So if that were the case, her out-of-pocket for the hotel alone is $190.   You pay her $450?    
 Her profit is  $260 for a 2 hour date.  
   
 Now  if she only had to pay for one night's stay, that still changes your figures to $360 for a 2-hour date.  
   
 You didn't say how much you were going to contribute to the hotel cost (not sure if you meant 50% or a flat $25) so obviously these figures aren't accurate.  
   
   
 I don't have anything else to contribute here, I just like talking hotel prices!  LOL.  

From the sound of things, she did not value you as a client.  It also seems best that you and she part ways, as you and she apparently have different communication styles & expectations.  This may not always have been the case, but it certainly is now.  

First, she may not like that hotel for a variety of reasons, including location, atmosphere, flexibility of check in/out times, scrutiny of hotel staff, tendency of hotel to work with LE, and many other reasons. But even if she could get a nice hotel for $50 - that's still a chunk of her rate, and she didn't agree to it upfront.  

I appreciate your reply but a lot is out of context. I contacted her in advance and needed to change plans. Now you say this would have aggravated you, but I'm saying I'm giving her ample notice in advance. She was honest and said she was not prepared for incall but how about longer date  (meaning more $$$ to cover the expense and a little bit of an upsell) not only did I offer more $$$ but I offered to help with hotel (that she didn't mention she needed help with). I see myself here as a gentleman and understanding the situation enough that I take away any inconvenience and add a win win situation for her not so much for me in terms of the $$$ I wanted to spend. Now at that point I was more than a week away so if she really had other potentials then she could have cancelled with me and took those dates but she didn't. No way was this about $$$.

Posted By: VOO-doo

First, she may not like that hotel for a variety of reasons, including location, atmosphere, flexibility of check in/out times, scrutiny of hotel staff, tendency of hotel to work with LE, and many other reasons. But even if she could get a nice hotel for $50 - that's still a chunk of her rate, and she didn't agree to it upfront.  
   
 Also, a lot of girls like to book with the hotel directly - when using tools like priceline, hotwire, etc., you sometimes get what you pay for - substandard rooms, no preference as to early check-in, less likelihood that requests are accommodated. Also, she may belong to a rewards program and/or just prefer a different hotel for other reasons of her own (some hotels are much more/less provider-friendly than others).  
   
 I don't have separate incall and outcall rates. If a date isn't worth it to me, I just won't do it - or, will suggest the gent book a longer time, as your provider did. It's not an upsell. If the guy doesn't want to book longer, then he doesn't have to - in that case, things wouldn't work out and he's free to choose someone else.  
   
 In most cases, I'll just refuse outright if a guy wants 1-hour incall... even if I COULD get a hotel for $50 (not likely for me). For 90 minutes I'll at least look at hotel rates, but I'll refuse the date if my profit margin isn't high enough.  
   
 If the guy wants to book a room to see me, that's his prerogative... but it's unlikely that I'd offer to give any discount. And if he asked me to take one, I'd refuse and tell him to find a provider who offers incall for the time/price he's seeking.  
   
 It's HER business to run.  
   
 You pretty much admitted you let your emotions get in the way. This doesn't seem to be entirely (or even mostly) about her professional practices - she made you feel hurt and angry. While her handling of your feelings and demands may have been immature and unprofessional, I think she'd be more than justified to try to put some distance between you. You do admit that you probably had a hand in her emotional reaction.  
   
 Also... you WERE advised by a fellow hobbyist to give her a deadline (harborview: "ask her quickly to confirm and give her a resonable time limit over 24 hours.  I'd be explcit that "if I don't hear back from you by midnight tomorrow 9/26, I'll assume you can't make it & consider it to be cancelled."  . It doesn't sound like you did that. Because it wasn't truly about deadlines. I think you likely knew she'd get back to you eventually, but her attitude made you angry. So you tried to FORCE her to give you more attention (maybe she even sensed that? Which could partially explain her delayed replies), and then basically punished her by cancelling, and telling her you found someone else.  
   
 I'm not saying that she behaved with the utmost professionalism, but she really didn't do anything egregious enough to warrant a sudden cancellation.  
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
 

Although I am sure he would have much preferred you "seized" it. lmao

Hope I spelled it correctly. Just because I can hold my own in an argument doesn't mean I'm not anecessarily excellent suitor Debra. You say YES to me not no. I can be anywhere in Chicagoland in an hours time usually.

Not to jump on the hooker bandwagon about "haggling" but this is what happens when non JDU graduates try to negotiate with a hooker. Whether you started it or she did is of little matter at this point. You dickered back and forth over chump change and now the magic is gone. My advice is to put this behind you, forget about which of you were the most unreasonable, and simply move on to another woman, just like you "claimed" you did.

Umm I followed the advice I was given when I had not gotten a response to 2 emails. You're a respected member on TER I think, but you're dead wrong here. I guess it don't matter.

Sometimes I can get bad at checking my messages. Specially if I'm really busy IRL, going through real life drama shiz, or trying to take it easy/personal days. It's bad I know, but that could be why she didn't get back to you.  I highly doubt she turned down other potentials for you, she was just probably annoyed, who knows! If she was really that busy, she would've smoothed things out asap she so could figure out if she should see someone else, just as you had. But, I could be wrong..

Also, a 3-star hotel in Oak Brook costs no less than $110...and that's not including tax.  

The hotel her and I have visited many times is $49. I got no reason to be less than honest about that. If I was wrong it's because I took the advice of the folks on this forum. You guys don't get it both ways.

You took the letter of the advice, but not the spirit.  

I think the group is just trying to work you up a bit. Obviously if she wasn't getting back to you that's a no no in terms of client relations. I've read the posters on here and your original post. I see nothing wrong with honesty. If her lack of communication was causing her to risk losing the appointment then there's nothing wrong with saying that if it's the truth. In the business world lack of diligence can cost you money. Not understanding the needs of your client and how he appeals to the service you offer it just........ I'm having a hard time understanding how all you guys are getting her back on that.

You were nice to offer some comp. in my opinion.

I'm sorry.  My suggestion was only to address her lack of response in a timely manner which is why I suggested putting the date & time in the subject line.  I didn't address the change in venue, thinking (mistakenly) that the change in location was a direct swap.  This wasn't the case.  And further you asked for a discount!?  You are worried about the schedule & you start talking discounts which can easily cause an event to blow up?   If I wanted a date to take place, I'd never do that.  

We're all waiting anxiously.  

Out of my long post and descriptions the part you heard was the part of least significance to my point. I think people can be upfront and honest. If I let her know in advance that there's a possibility that her lack of diligence could result in my cancellation then I think I'm being transparent and honest. I describe in my post that even after doing so she still continued to ignore the diligence that I'd described in was looking for something therefore I let her know I moved on.

What everyone is failing to realize though is that her and I have seen each other many times. And there's no way you guys can understand the dynamic of that without asking questions about the details you don't understand. But since it's out in the open it will add here. I've covered the room on other occasions with this woman just because I wanted to see her and me covering the room made that possible. When she suggested  (after 3 emails) that we contunue the plans with something that benefited her (longer time = more $$$), the I suggested something that was equally beneficial to me (more time for a special rate) because she suggested that we could have more time to enjoy the date and each other. There was no haggling involved, but many of you ASSUME there was and that's the reason first this going south.  

... from harborview, Voo-doo et. al.  But it's clear you really didn't want an answer to your question, what was wrong with what I did, because you don't think you did anything wrong.  

I find it a tad bit over hypocritical when I did what I was advised to do and the "board" still does not think it was the right advice when the concensus told me to do it. This ain't me not wanting to take advice or me just plain being mean. This was her disregarding and taking me for granted so I came on the board and asked for advice.  

You're pissed at your ATF for "messing up" your anticipation of the date. And you wanted others to tell you your actions were justified.  

If I actually had moderator abilities, I would close this thread. This has gone on long enough and is going nowhere. We don't trainwrecks on the newbie board. I have watched this thread and the previous related thread for days and I never replied in the threads because there was enough reasonable answers from others. At this point, I feel this has gone on long enough and nothing is being accomplished. Let it rest. Other future readers to the thread can read all the existing posts and make their own judgements. Nothing more needs to be added.