I've been a TER member for just a few months, but a recurring theme has popped up on the discussion boards: a hobbyist falls in love with a provider, then wonders why the 'relationship'  has soured over time.  This type of post usually follows three acts:

Act 1--Delusion: when the hobbyist first meets the provider, the sex is red hot.  The hobbyist assumes the provider is into him, just like he's into her.  

Act 2--Angst: over time, the true nature of the relationship is revealed.  The hobbyist becomes despondent, waiting for days for the provider to return phone calls and e-mails.  This phase is a bit like high school.  

Act 3--Denial.  The hobbyist wonders if maybe he should sit down with the provider for a heart-to-heart  talk about their 'relationship'.  As if they were newlyweds going through a rocky patch.  

I can only shake my head in wonder when I read these posts.  It doesn't surprise me when a lonely hobbyist falls in love with a beautiful provider.  What amazes me is how blind these men are regarding the nature of their  'relationship' that's based on money.  

Note to Newbies: your relationship with your provider is a business relationship.  You will grow fond of your favorite provider, that's only human.  But It only becomes romance when money stops changing hands.  Remember this and take care.  --z




-- Modified on 2/7/2009 12:48:48 PM

and that is becoming so friendly with a provider that you forget the transactional nature of the business, and settle for less than you really want from someone because you like them. That is a lot more common. Done that myself. Sigh.....

How do you know when you get less than what you could have gotten? Even if you knew, how do you know that at that point in time you would have a better experience elsewhere? In my experience there is no way to know.

-- Modified on 2/7/2009 6:01:05 PM

If the provider says she loves the client, does that change your analysis?   I have more than one provider who says she loves me.   Is it just self-delusion (part of your first Act)?

presumably you get less than you used to in the past from the same person. leave sex out of it for a moment: professionalism in keeping track of and confirming appointments can deteriorate over time.

Dear FC:  I'm sure you're quite lovable.  But I would gently remind you that it's not romance as long as money is changing hands.

I once booked a porn star who whispered in my ear that I was a great  lover.  Oh, I forgot to tell you: I was paying her $500 an hour. Take care.  --z

Love is free.

Sex still costs.

Same as it's ever been.

What is love, anyway?

And I throw in a Talking Heads as a bonus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYbUCvz1LYE

"Once in a a Lifetime"

I suppose I'll have to save this tune for my very first 10 rating, eh?

Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...

My God, what have I done?

I once heard a preacher say that at a wedding. We thought it was hilarious him talking about Tina Turner using it in a way to tell about real love
Kinda of a new twist.
To the guy above that says his providers say they love him . Try asking for a play friend date in a kidding  cutting up way and see if she says  I need money

-- Modified on 2/8/2009 12:20:29 AM

Part of the problem here is that some guys take 'bedroom talk' literally.  That was the point of my second post.

A provider will use language during a session to keep you interested & aroused--and that's fair. For a client to take that out-of-context and then post on the TER board that 'she loves me' or 'I'm a great lover' is idiotic.  

One additional point here: Part of what a good provider sells is illusion. We all need to understand that.   --z

-- Modified on 2/8/2009 3:40:51 AM

You can want to fuck us for hours and hours or just an hour, you can email us, you can call us to make an appointment, you can even dislike us, but NEVER EVER NEVER LOVE US!!
you can LOVE you time with us, but as your leaving, click off anything else!
Jay

LadyJay: when a client falls in love with a provider, he is easily manipulated.  I have seen several threads over the past three months of lonely men in this situation asking for help.  You have seen these threads as well.  

If one of your clients falls in love with you and you love him, I would assume that's he's no longer a client but your boyfriend.  I don't charge the people I love to spend time with me.  Do you (?)

And you should be careful about what-you-wish-for.  The client that falls in (unrequited) love with you is emotionally vulnerable and possibly dangerous.  He may be parked outside your house at 3:00 a.m.    Take care, --z

I used to see a provider who was so into me. She would call, telling me she was thinking about me  and how much she missed me etc. I still had to pay her. Folks don't be fooled, we are only paying for fantasy fuck session for about an hour or so and that's it, nothing more. She also would complement me on my good looks and would tell me what a good lover I was....HORSE SHIT. FYI...I look like Frankenstein's older brother and have a pecker the size of a petite chili pepper.

it can be very hard to keep it in perspective.

and i wouldn't fall in love with any of my clients..thats NOT what i'm here for, i like certain hobbyist alot to the point that we talk on the phone, but if sex is involved they KNOW money will be exchanged. Period!
be careful what i wish for?? where the hell did that come from?? There are a few things in place right now for me not to really have to worry about a stalker! Yes, the chance is always there, but this goes back to the old adage, you DON'T open your doors to just anyone..thats why i PICK and CHOOSE who i see!  I've said this before.

-- Modified on 2/8/2009 4:40:56 PM

clarity and integrity such as yours it certainly commendable and eliminates much needless suffering and drama.

LadyJay: here's your first cold blast on the issue:
"You can want to fuck us for hours and hours or just an hour, you can email us, you can call us to make an appointment, you can even dislike us, but NEVER EVER NEVER LOVE US!! you can LOVE you time with us, but as your leaving, click off anything else!"  

And then you follow that with a second post:
"I wouldn't fall in love with any of my clients..thats NOT what i'm here for"

Translation: it's o.k. for a client to fall in love with you, but not the other way around.  Why?  Because you have leverage when your client is lovestruck.  That's why I wrote this post--to warn hobbyists of that potential to be manipulated.  

And here's what I mean about the stalker parked outside your house at 3:00 A.M.:  When people are emotionally manipulated, they eventually become damaged and often feel betrayed. Then all kinds of aberrant behavior occurs.

I don't mean to imply that providers are emotionless monsters.  I'm sure that you & other providers have genuine affection for clients that treat you with tenderness and respect.  And I have great affection for my ATF.  But that's not the subject of this thread.   regards, -z

that a person who feels emotionally manipulated necessarily becaomes a stalker. sure some weak character with no guts or integrity is going to do that but it is not a straight line from maipulation to stalking.

i say so from personal experience. i have had occasions when i have felt emotionally manipulated and i have never, never gone that route. never will. it's barbaric. you see, some folks know that there is nothing to be gained from acting in such a psychotic manner.

LadyJay's attitude may not seem to you to be considerate, but i can tell you that such clarity does effectively rule out your scenarion of encouraging the client to fall for the provider as a means of manipulation. what is manipulative is the hint of possibilities in the future. if insincere THAT is pernicious.

one of my favorite DC providers wears her wedding ring in session. wish i could book with her more often but she is busy weekends with her family.

emotional manipulation is a fact of life in this culture. LadyJay's clarity gives up so much potential manipulation that i cannot comprehend your 'cold blast'.

Now that is a kind of  man with  a different  kind of ego  that is married to an escort    What kind of  guy would let his wife be an  escort
I guess she brings home the bacon !

-- Modified on 2/8/2009 11:58:13 PM

texcatlipoca:  

1. I didn't claim that every manipulated client becomes a stalker.  But I think that's one possible outcome.  

2.  It's important to be consistent when debating issues.  LadyJay's position of 'love me, now get away from me I have a boyfriend' is inconsistent and may lead to trouble later on.  

3.  You make an excellent point about insincere hints of romantic possibilities in the future.  That's the manipulation I'm talking about.  I'm glad you were able to break free of your bad relationship.  Take care, --z  

actually, i have no idea what he is like or what kind of bacon _he_ may be bringing home and from where. she is very discreet about details. also is quite up front about the family being the reason for no weekend availability and other rules. her reviews are quite good. hmmm... i think i may need to take a midweek day off soon....

glad it was a misunderstanding on #1. on #2 perhaps it is the case that LadyJay is using different senses of "love" so with clarifying that as your aim i understand your post. as for #3, it was an amusing divorce and i had a very good lawyer, which helped.

your translation is way off to what i ment, i was yelling it out there what the DON"Ts were about falling for us..I never took your post as providers being emotionless monsters, never once did i think that...MY post of what NOT to do was a shout out to the Hobbyists to keep things in check!
Jay

Who the hell said that..i suggest you GO back and read my damn post again!!
What isn't acceptable here, i've come to understand is that it's NOT good to be honest with a Hobbyist huh???
Every gentleman that i've seen, if i feel he's getting a bit more emotional then allowed or that he wants to see me "off" the clock, i tell him point blank that i have a man in my life!
Why is that so hard for some of you to understand here??
My post about is saying point blank to do anything but LOVE US..it was so simple i didn't think it needed much translation, but i guess alot of you love to read things into what was said here!
Jay

Jeeeez guys!  stop tearing apart and reading innuendo's into a simple clear post that was made by me..
and for the last time..what i said was
FEEL ANYTHING YOU WANT FOR US (PROVIDERS) EXCEPT LOVE!! desire us, think of us, even stroke your dick to us, just DON"T LOVE us!  
does everyone understand that now??

advice will help him.  You and I can talk, write, shout, quote songs, or otherwise try to get the message out, and it still won't matter.

Some guys are just not equipped.  We've all met them in our regular lives, and providers, I'm sure, deal with them quite a lot.  It has more to do with how someone is emotionally wired than anything else, and nothing really to do with how well the provider sells the fantasy.

Think about it.  A provider is usually lauded and praised for her ability to sell the fantasy (the essence of the GFE fallacy), and the better she sells it, the better she is considered at her profession.  We write reviews about it, we post minis about how wonderful she was, and we highly recommend her to others. It would be an injustice to then hold her accountable in any way when she sells it to an emotional cripple who then goes off the deep end and is unable to maintain the boundaries.

I take exception with your assertion regarding "manipulation" in your posts to LadyJayLa because it has nothing to do with being manipulated.  She is 100% spot on when she writes that her clients are free to love being with her, but not to "Love" her because she doesn't want it, nor does she encourage it (at least that's how I read her posts).  

Just because some moon-bat can't handle a good lay or a beautiful woman being making him the focus of her attention for the time they are together doesn't make the provider culpable in any way.  That's what you suggest when you use the word "manipulation."  

This isn't a dating game.  It's a hobby about NSA sex.  NSA is No Strings Attached, not No Strings Attached unless you really rock my boat which will lead me to pine after you until you burn me off with a lit cigar like the leach that I am.

There will always be guys who cannot handle it.  There is nothing anyone can say or do to them to prevent the fall into the abyss.  Either they will learn from the first tumble and not burn themselves again, or they are destined to be a miserable part of this hobby for both themselves and the poor lady who just did her job too well.

Good luck

Over the last year or so I have seen so many posts about this and I have come to the conclusion that most guys are confused. GFE is only an experience. It seems to me the ladies are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Too much "reality" and some guys can't handle it...not enough and she gets labeled 3 G's.

Unfortunately you can't see the troubled ones coming...even the most level headed guys can turn. And I don't mean turn nasty. It has happened to me where more time is expected or time off the clock as I've heard "You seem to enjoy yourself as much I do". I am paid to show you how much I love being with you...I guess that is forgotten. Geez...

Ashes on my head!   I misunderstood LadyJay's first post on this thread.  Here's what she wrote:  

"You can want to fuck us for hours and hours or just an hour, you can email us, you can call us to make an appointment, you can even dislike us, but NEVER EVER NEVER LOVE US!!
you can LOVE you time with us, but as your leaving, click off anything else!"  

I thought this post was written with anger and sarcasm.  But now I understand she meant this literally.  Sorry LadyJay!

it is not so simple as the guys always being merely confused. some providers may also create confusions as an opportunity.

almost all of the folks i have seen (i have seen more than i have reviewed, so don't try figuring anything out from looking at my reviews)
are sensible, professional and honorable. they facilitate keeping boundaries quite clear and keep confusion to a minimum. play time and business discussions are separate and distinct.

a minority (tiny by my sample) engage in practices that are vague about boundaries. _they_ initiate OTC time, hint vaguely at future possibilities and try to engender an illusion that there is a possible real relationship while still taking an envelope. that is NOT cool.

emotional manipulation can happen in either direction. there are (to put it harshly) predators on both sides of the client-provider relationship.





-- Modified on 2/9/2009 9:32:03 PM

Yep and if the girl starts  making not subtle signals I kid around about being play friends .
She leaves the door open at that point  where you can mess around without acting like you just want a freebie.


-- Modified on 2/10/2009 1:22:48 AM

Couple months ago a clinet booked me for a whole week. I have never met him before. When I finally did meet with him, I felt butterflies in my stomach and forgot how to speak english, i was so nervous that I started to speak in Spanish (i am latin and have an accent)... I was like "oh God this cant be happening, this is estrictely bizz'. I was tryng to convinced myself to enjoy the time with him and be a good provider. However, he mentioned many times that he was falling in love with me... Asking me if i would like to be his gf... BLAblabla... At that point i was already in love with him as much as i fught my feelings. Anyways, When we said good bye he promised to visit me, but he never even called me back...   Conclusion, sometimes, clients lie to you its not only the providers...