Hello,

Have a P411 account with multiple recent okays. Is there a reason why some providers still need my full name while making a booking?  

Do some providers really have this policy and if so, what could be the reason specially for P411 verified and okayed members?

Thanks,

...a P411 membership with OK's. It's what they screen with. It's what makes them feel safe and comfortable about you. The provider has the right to ask for whatever she needs to feel this way. You have the right to comply or decline.  

I know of a few providers that require full names because they want to be sure you two don't somehow know each other in real life

I guess there are strong opinions on both sides on this issue. So perhaps need to look at it on a per provider basis.

but yes "some" providers don't accept P 411 membership alone, even with dozens of Okays, just like "some" providers won't accept provider references "alone" and still insist on additional screening.

It's up to you whether or not to provide this additional information, My advice is to either comply or move onto another lady, having a "discussion" on WHY she needs the info will most certainly not be a productive one. lol

BTW when I say "small" percentage, for me it's been maybe one or two percent at the most. Such a small percentage as to be almost statistically irrelevant.

I have been asked for my full name and to show ID. I've never asked a provider for her real name or ID. I accept your reasons.  They're valid.  Would a provider be willing to reciprocate? A client could just as easily end up robbed or  black mailed.

You say "what if I asked an escort for her ID", well there are many reasons you are incorrect. First off, you have no online presence. There are no photos, stats like age/height/eye color. You can choose whether or not you want to post reviews but most ladies don't have that luxury.  

If a lady is reputable, why would she do anything untoward with your information? It would severely hurt her business that she probably spent thousands of dollars setting up (website, photoshoot, ads). But for a gentleman to know a provider's name, he can out her, make her lose her job. Because she has things online like photos, it is harder to deny.

Well,  

#1 does not protect you against the sorts of personalities that are serial killers.  You'd still be dead, and all the other guys before that last one would still be compromised.  

#2 is silly; you don't need my name for that, you already have my contact info.  
If you meant this, you would give me your name in case I got cooties!  
But I can notify all my contacts without knowing any of their names, and so can you.  

#3 is a small thing only until someone malignant gets hold of your database with my info, then it's big.  
It is not a matter of trust in you.  It's Them.

So, overall, the balance of reasons does not look good for giving my names to you, for me.  
Maybe there is a better reason, a sufficient reason, but these are not it

For me personally, if somebody has a p411 account I look at how long they have had it and how many okays they have, and sometimes how long ago they received these okays. If they have been pretty active with recent okays I generally don't need a full name. When a potential client has verified memberships on a reputable site that makes me pretty comfortable. When they are active on these sites, even more comfy.  

I only request names and other ways to verify if they DONT know about these sites or activity is very limited. Sometimes my screening is painless, sometimes it's easier than other times, sometimes I ask for one thing to verify, sometimes I will ask for 5 things to verify. Another very important part of my screening is RESPECT. If a potential client is understanding and respectful of my need to feel safe and comfortable, that ALSO raises my comfort level.  

But again, these are MY requirements for screening. Not every provider screens the same because it can take different things for a provider to feel comfortable.

Because nearly every companion can tell you a story about how the guy with 4 references from well reputed providers completely bailed on her with no notice after she booked a $300 room in Midtown to meet him.  She's still waiting on the apology email.

Because nearly every companion can tell you a story about how the guy from P411 that has been a member for 6 years and has 40 okay's "accidentally slipped" and put it in her bum after she repeatedly told him not to.  How he thrusted a couple extra times so he could get off before he pulled it out and apologized profusely with a smirk on his face.

Because nearly every companion can tell you a story about how the guy on TER with 27 reviews and several whitelists booked a 2 hour visit and after he was "done" after 40 minutes promptly declared he couldn't go again and quickly adjusted the 2 hour compensation to 1 hour compensation.

Do you think any of that would happen if she knew his name?  Where he worked?  No.  

It's certainly up to every paying client how he wishes to screen.  There will always be a companion that he can see with whatever screening information he is willing to provide.

Likewise, every companion will decide what she's comfortable accepting as screening information prior to meeting someone.  Every single companion I've ever spoke with that requires full name for screening does so because she had an experience similar to the ones listed above and she vowed "Never Again."

We all have our reasons.

do you want quality, discretion, security, quality... I guess you have to follow the lady rules.  

it's REAL simple. If a companion's screening process is too thorough for you, move along to someone who's less careful, and good luck.

For other ladies that dont screen... All money isnt good money and if you are risking your safety to get money eventually something bad is going to happen. So screen.
 

and find someone else. Every lady has the right to feel safe when meeting a friend.

Xyz actually mentioned  this in his reply above, but this thread provides a good example.  
Here is one reason some providers ask for real info:

Have you told Gina that professionals want more details on verified clients???All professionals and clients at risk illegal business.

Hi,
    I'm brand new (but have done lots of research) and I will respond from that perspective.  For someone brand new they may not be familiar with the various websites or feel as trusting as someone with more experience.
    P411 actually doesn't allow membership to brand new providers.  Furthermore, even if let's say someone has a couple of clients, at least 1 of those clients must be a member of P411 with 5 reviews or okays.  I spoke to their rep in a chat session to verify.
From the website: "To show that you are a legitimate and reputable escort, we will need to see a recent review (less than 3 months old) posted by an established reviewer. An established reviewer is someone who has posted at least five reviews of escorts, other than you, prior to reviewing you.  If you do not have reviews posted as described, we may accept a reference from a P411 client member with whom you have had a session, who has at least five Okays. Providers are not able to vouch other providers onto P411."

I can see how the screening process might not feel very comfortable and private but as long as you are dealing with someone decent, discreet, and you treat them respectfully, I would think the client's privacy would be respected since the goal is to get repeat clientele and have a good reputation.  

As for why a provider wouldnt give their information, it should be understood that there are just different dynamics at play for the different roles.  Reporting something would draw attention to the provider and depending on the details the penalty could be jail time for the provider but not for the client.  Why would someone jeopardize a major source of income and their freedom without good reason?  Your data is probably treated quite seriously on average, since it's like a career for some people plus they have their own privacy and peace to protect.  As far as female versus male concerns, even though some guys are really normal and great, it is far more typical that if/when there is an attack it's done by a male, not a female to a male.  Males are typically stronger as well.  Someone found to be linked to a provider would be suspected of being with that 1 person, yes, but the provider would be suspected of/labeled as being with hundreds and that's on top of the fact that judgement/standards seem to be more harsh for females.  

If you are already going into a scenario where the guy wants more than conversation, better try to make sure he won't be be nutty or forcing things you aren't okay with.  From the provider's side it's more about money but I don't think robberies by 1 lone female are common (although I'm sure it can happen in a sneaky way).  In fact I've read of providers being robbed (National Blacklist website).  I guess everyone should just bring what they plan to spend, not entire wallets.

In regular day to day life I had a bad encounter (attempted rape) with a guy I had recently met and was just hanging out with, not planning to do anything with...it turned out his photo and name were in the local sex offender database which I hadn't checked.  And these incidents aren't super rare just because they aren't openly discussed.  So yeah checking matters even though it won't guarantee anything.

   If I couldn't screen someone I would not remotely entertain the thought of meeting up, so it's creating more providers.  Meeting some anonymous stranger with who knows what kind of history or... affiliation??  Creepy and risky.  
    I was leaning away from an online presence for privacy reasons but I joined TER since it seems to be a good resource for info, is high up on the Google search results list and will help my page to get some traffic, and it seems to care about limiting dishonest reviews.
    In conclusion, P411 seems sufficient but I'd appreciate it if someone was willing to give a little basic information to me directly so it doesn't seem like they "have something to hide".  I'll probably feel more relaxed about it after having a few clients.  I would be using the info to help me feel safe about meeting the person to begin with, not so much for anything post-meeting.  Of course the general vibe I get upon meeting someone matters, too.  Well, thanks for hearing (reading) my piece and hopefully we can all be good to one another.

Oh I just had another thought (last one, I promise.  Haha)...a person who does have access to P411 might want your name to guess at your nationality or race to reject or allow you...so it could be an issue of stereotypes/assumptions/bias, at least in some cases.

The problem is not all BSC hookers act that way at first. There have been several very well reviewed providers that have simply gone off the rails and outed guys with little or no provocation. I will freely concede their numbers are small and the risk "not great" but to say there is no risk to giving out your personal information to even the most well reviewed hooker is a highly self serving and not at all accurate.

It's true that most hobbyists have no online presence, and that's exactly how they want to keep it. If a provider has a hobbyists real name she too can out him, make him lose his job, his wife, his kids, basically ruin his entire life. It's happened before, please don't even try to deny it.

I thought of a work-around for the P411 access issue.  If someone can email or text several screenshots or a short video of successful login (without the password showing) under the username linked to the Okays, plus show the Okays themselves, it would be fine.  But to help ensure the person is within my personal standards or comfort zone I would still need a photo (attire, cleanliness, etiquette.  A guy making weird hand signs in a hoodie...No. lol)+call, OR, those screenshots and a short pre-meet over tea, for example...without any further information.  These options are preferred over me calling a reference since I don't know if I'd be calling at a bad time and it's that much less privacy for me and creates a tie to some stranger who may or may not get into trouble.
Usernames and passwords could get compromised for a set up (or used by someone's friend who doesn't actually have an account) but im guessing that's very rare.  Any stories out there?
I think I would worry more about giving my info to a major website that could be targeted than about giving my (non-credit card) info to 1 or 2 people who seem normal.  Plus clients pay the websites whereas it's free to just let a provider do some research.  On the other hand the websites provide a more neutral and "trusted by many" feel, so I can see the appeal.

I can't imagine using your "work around" to P 411, especially when the existing system works so well for me. If you are going to ask guys to jump through THAT many hoops in order to see you I am afraid you are going to be VERY disappointed in the results.

It sounds like you are new and trying to be creative, but my advice is to follow the advice of those who have been doing this for years or even decades instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. Very few guys are going to even consider sending you a pic, a screen shot or meeting you for a 'spot of tea" lol

P 411 is well known, reputable and located outside of the United States, no offense, but "who the heck are you?" I don't say this to be harsh, just making the point that most of us are going to be a LOT more comfortable giving our info to an established, well known and reputable site, than some provider we've never heard of.

Well you contradict yourself because in your title you say "many" but then in the body of the message you say "I freely concede the number is small and the risk is not great". I've never heard of a gentleman being outed by a provider. I think a far more common scenario is the spouse finding out.  

I'm not denying there are probably some crazy well reviewed ladies out there, drugs and alcohol can certainly fuel bad choices. My point to the previous poster was that a potential client and a provider giving personal information are two totally separate things. If a crazy provider were to call up a gentleman's office to try and get him fired, it seems that they might thinks she's just a disgruntled customer or whomever.

The only actual murders of providers I've heard about were street girls, girls advertised in low end publications and girls who did outcalls to iffy locations. Given the amount of encounters in any given year the odds would have to be millions to one.

From what I've seen it's more like 100.s to one that some hooker goes BSC.  

All she has to do is contact the spouse. If the spouse is smart she hires a PI and tails you. Even if your spouse does not do that, anything that arouses suspicion is going to make it a living hell for a married monger.

Job:

If it's a sensitive job and the hooker tells them where her web page  is and verifies it with a phone number it could put the employee under investigation. Any teaching job or other sensitive job could be in jeopardy.    

It's just not worth it to bother with girls who want personal information.

i hate this stupid spouse talk. If you give a fuck about your marriage, how about you stop cheating?? There. I said it.

-- Modified on 11/11/2016 8:37:55 PM

but even with a very small percentage, it does happen and "Many" guys have been outed by BSC hookers, sometimes for something as petty as a 8-8 review of a provider accustomed to 10-10s  

It does happen. It doesn't happen all that often, but to say there is NO risk is a self serving lie. If you have NEVER heard of it, either you are new, or you simply have not been paying attention. For the record, I have been outed and my name splashed all over the internet. I am single, self employed and already "out" so there was no damage caused, everyone in my life already knows I am a whore monger, but it was an attempt to ruin my life. So NOW you have heard of it happening. If I had been married, or with a sensitive job with a morals clause, my life would have been ruined.

For the record, I don't mind providing personal information, but if my life could be ruined by some BSC, vindictive ho, I would DEFINITELY have second thoughts before doing so.

Without "cheaters" hookers would starve to death. I personally am not married, nor am I cheating on anyone, but I am in the distinct minority where it comes to whore mongers and the reality is, if a married man gets caught or outed for seeing prostitutes his entire life is likely to come crashing down on his head.

Now aside from "getting caught" by your spouse, many people have "morals clauses" in their employment contract. Is it really worth risking your career to see a hooker who demands all your personal information when there are hundreds, literally thousands of other women who will see you without putting your career at risk? There, I said it. lol

The system works for us.  P411 is reputable and efficient.  If you try to create a work-around, guys will pass you by.

I ask for name and employment info simply for verification and for my own safety. If I call someone's workplace, I just pretend to be a doctors or dentist office reminding of an appointment. I would never "ruin someone's career or marriage" by contacting a spouse or employer and tell them what a guy has been up to. I'm amazed girls actually do this?!?!!? It sounds like career suicide to me lol. Ain't nobody got time for that!

I'm not new lol. I assumed it did happen in rare cases. I just do not understand the thought process behind it. With all these hobby boards, the girl would be outed and career....OVER. Unless she finds clients that aren't on these boards. I totally understand what you're saying, though.

interest from your website. Your photos do not get me excited (skin not necessary) because there is nothing there to give me an idea of your physical beauty as in height/weight proportion, hair, eyes, smile, etc.

You have a long way to go to play in this arena.

but to leo she can be tracked very easily (ads and postings and payments all over the internet)...you can't

So in that sense it is kind of like an incentive to fulfill the contract made (between him and her)?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say every provider here would say, if asked, I would never do that. And we're all supposed to believe you. We can and should believe at least 95% of you on that. Problem is, the few that can't be trusted aren't exactly raising their hands and saying I'm going to wreck your life.

It's kinda like every hobbyist would say "beat up and kidnap a provider? I would never do that!" Do you believe us all? You know you can't trust ALL, so therefore you can't trust any. We're in the same boat.  

I'm sorry, but a number of reviews does not prove you have never done that, although it makes it highly unlikely. It certainly does not prove you never will. A list of names dates and phone numbers would make a nice retirement plan. In all honesty, if I was really convinced I wanted to see someone and that we would click, and she asked for real name, I'd probably go ahead with it if she had a solid enough rep. But a lot of guys would be risking more than I would be and they don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

If someone can't be verified, sure get a real name and check it out. But at some point it was said that even when someone has a lot of references, a real name is needed. If some level of anonymity is not possible, even in light of solid references, then Mutually Assured Destruction is the only other thing that makes sense to some people.

Don't get me wrong, I hate that you ladies have to worry about your safety, and I know you do. I hate that people try to stiff you on the price and, much worse, a few would harm you physically. I really do. And I'm not trying to talk you into or out of anything. As has been said thousands of times, you have the right to ask for whatever makes you feel safe, and everyone else has the right to walk away. I'm just wanting you to understand what they may be thinking when they're walking away.  

This comes up all the time and the answer from providers seems to always be you don't have to worry about that because I would never do that. We can't just always believe that. Neither can you

Well said. Good discussion.  

So norm is - Nobody gets real name, even if hobbyist have to walk, (I will). Respect providers' right to get and hobbyists' right to refuse.  Bad apples on both sides but P411 is neutral.

-- Modified on 11/16/2016 5:07:52 AM

I can't speak for other girls but I just want to co-sign that what Chloe said is very true! I have had most of the things listed happen to me at one time or another (all by guys with verifiable provider references btw so don't drop that "did you screen them?" bullshit on me) and if I'd had a way to let the people in those men's lives know what they did to me then I don't think the men would have risked it.  They do it because this is the perfect place to get away with it and sex workers make the perfect victims.  

 -- Modified on 11/18/2016 1:35:32 PM

You would want to be flat out crazy to EVER provide a real name and/or employment to ANY provider.

Apart from the several well-known points made already (multiple cases of providers deliberately outing clients, and lack of willingness to reciprocate), I would add the following:
- Providers lose or have their cell phones stolen all the time. Same with iPods, and computers.
- There have been several cases reported here on TER where the stolen phones, with all the juicy  
  details, have ended up in the hands of LEO, with subsequent inquiries (just search on Legal board).
- Then there are hackers. Both email accounts and computers are regularly hacked, often on an industrial scale. Again, you want those hackers to have all your juicy personal details?
- Finally, quite a few providers are frauds/crooks, and/or with pimps. You want them with your personal details?

I have only ever dated using a cover name, with separate email, and throw-away phone....

As a provider I respect your opinion but you should also consider that we also go through several things you as a hobbyist will never experience. I screen with names after having a client threaten my career (yes-some of us really do have professions in the real world), to out me (which as a nurse I would absolutely lose my career and reputation in the medical world), and threaten to follow me and harm my children and me. I had a separate incident with another client who roughed me up enough that I was out of work as a nurse and a provider for over a week. It's a huge risk for both parties but there are enough providers and hobbyists to satisfy everyone's personal preferences. If you are uncomfortable with such a request-move on to the next provider who doesn't screen with a real name.

This provider wouldn't starve to death. Here's a thought-some of us providers are hobbyists as well. I have a career that has a "moral clause" as well. Much easier for me to be ousted. It's a delicate balance of trust and respect.

Absolutely. Perfect. 99% of the providers screening with real names have a real reason. I doubt the guy who knocked me around (who had good reviews) would have done so had I known his real name.

GaGambler, emorf4077, keystonekid, and some other person...I haven't been here in a while but to respond to your replies:  
I never once said nothing bad could ever happen with some random provider.  I simply said it would not be in her best interest and it would seem illogical if she wants a good reputation to make even more money.  That said, of course there are illogical or scheming types of people in the world...or you could wrong someone enough for them to want revenge but it seems to me it would likely cause the provider stress, too (eg. cursed out by your SO). If someone new isnt given a chance then how can she ever become reputable/reviewed (in a safe manner without an agency)?  I don't really get why some people feel the need to exaggerate or be combative in forums.  A discussion doesn't needed to become a full blown argument.

As far as guys  "jumping through hoops", I said I'd use P411 as screenshots precisely to accommodate the guys, not that I wouldn't take it at all.  I cannot get a P411 membership being new, so if the user readily has access to his P411 Okays I'd think it would be really easy to just take a couple of screenshots, text or email them, then briefly meet in person so I can get a feel that he's probably/hopefully not a nut before I'm in a private setting with him.  I feel like that's pretty reasonable and just because you personally don't prefer it doesn't mean it's an out of this world bad idea to every guy.  Now, if you guys don't have easy access to view the Okays then I understand that would be a hassle.
  On both sides it comes down to luck as to whether someone is trustworthy or some sort of threat.  So I understand hesitancy.  It just sucks that I'd be blocked when I'm 100% trustworthy, not some "unpredictable drug user", and not out to get anyone.  I'd suggest you guys in relationships use cash to buy a prepaid phone without your name attached to it and keep it powered off and hidden when you aren't setting up a date...simple as that.  As far as steamy messages...I wouldn't even do that kind of talk.  It would just be getting the info for making an appointment and that doesn't by itself prove much...plus things can be said verbally for no texting trail.
Keystonekid, yeah "surprisingly enough" I'm not trying to show my full face and many people don't so I don't know how that's a legit criticism.  I am f#%king beautiful so I want to add my face but it just doesn't seem very wise.  Well if we set something up, you see me and think I look like a dog, then you can just leave.  It's not like it's a prepaid scenario.  lol.  That's if you already had the hotel room.  But that wouldn't happen anyway. Guaranteed.  I have added many more photos at this point. There was no need for any put downs.  The site was still in its infancy and I expected a more friendly and supportive tone here but there seems to be a lot of male-female bashing (of the bad type).  Not my kind of atmosphere if that's the norm.

Sorry to hear that happened to you.  You could still report him to P411 staff based on his P411 username, right?  I'm not a member of that site so I don't know all the options.  You can also consider National Blacklist and Verify Him...there may be some other sources too.

Well, I have my first TER review you guys!  I made screening straight forward and painless and kept him updated when each reference replied.  However, once I get much busier or have some bad experiences, screening might become a more selective process.  I just hate to make things difficult the way they were made difficult for me.  It was so nice to be given a chance to show and prove, and for it to all work out pretty well.  I'm still a newbie (regarding norms/nervousness not the quality "services" part) but the review should help a lot since so many people online act skeptical of someone new.
The Fog has lifted and I see great things on the horizon!  
Happy New Year, everyone!

Wow that's scary. Makes me even more nervous about giving girls my employment info.