Long time, first time here. I thought about calling this post Alternative To Screening?, but I think what I'm going to suggest serves the purpose of screening.
I'm a newbie and for me, sharing my work info and showing my license is not an option. Absolutely off the table. I've read enough posts to know that "Aww, do I really have to be screened?" posts are not appreciated. This is not one of those. I agree that if you're asking a provider who doesn't know you from Adam to meet for an hour BCD right off the bat, then you need to sufficiently demonstrate (notice I didn't say prove, because you can't prove a negative) you're not LE and that she will be safe. I've thought about this for awhile and I'd like to know what providers think about the following. I think for what many clients will consider a reasonable amount of money, this should serve the same purposes as traditional screening.
An unknown client needs to request a dinner date and he needs to stay at a reputable hotel (I'm writing this mostly with Vegas in mind). The provider will go to the hotel lobby and call the client. The client will give the provider his room number. The provider will share the room number with a trusted friend and ask her to note the date, time. The provider will then go to the room, where the client will greet her, stepping out into the hallway before she enters. The provider will request to use the restroom and the client will apologize and say he needs to make a phone call, would she mind meeting him in the lobby once she is finished using the restroom? There will be stationary in the restroom for the provider. The provider then goes to the lobby, meets up with the client again, and the two go to dinner at a classy restaurant. Whatever happens happens.
With respect to the provider's safety, the client has to show the hotel his credit card and license to check into the room. God forbid something should go awry, the provider's friend could tell LE (screening is partly intended to prevent things from happening that, if they did happen, you, or someone on your behalf, actually would want someone to get LE involved) that the provider saw such and such client who was staying in room x on this date. LE could then compel the hotel to disclose the identity of that client. Theoretically the client could give the hotel a fake credit card and ID, but if he is capable of doing that, then he's just as capable of supplying false information to the provider, and I would submit that a hotel has better mechanisms in place to verify this information. The point is that the client is leaving a forensic trail that would only be tracked if he misbehaved.
With respect to an LE check, so to speak, the dinner is pulling the weight. People spend thousands of dollars on courtside Lakers tickets, and they're terrible this year. You don't even get to meet the players. It really is ridiculous, if you think about it. It's much more reasonable that a person would pay that amount of money to share a wonderful meal and conversation with a special lady. In what I described above, the client and the provider won't be BCD at any time before the dinner (and more reputable hotels have cameras in the hallway to verify this). And I know our government's priorities are off, but I can't imagine LE would have the budget to set up the above scenario to target someone who is being discreet, when they have much bigger fish to fry. And even assuming they did, I would think any decent attorney would be able to establish reasonable doubt.
I'm curious to know what people think.
I would have to have a hobby friend whom I trust implicitly (and in this world, I don't), and I would have to trust LE and the hotel to do what they "should" do, but only after it's too late.
I'm not trying to be harsh, but you are the 1,000,000th newbie to come here and say "I just can't give my name / work info." You seem to think that you have more to lose than others do. Or than I do. And that is simply just not true - once you're screened and we're in private, it's all about you. Until we get there, it is not. There are many men who are more "important" than you, and they give their info to us every day of the year. But they make their choices carefully, and after much research. You are unlikely to find a higher end girl who will jump through the hoops you propose when we can move on to the next guy who is much easier to make arrangements with.
The reality is that if you find someone who will see you without references, or your name and work info, you will be in much greater danger than if you give P411 (they are based in Canada, outside the reach of the US government) and/or a couple of established, reputable girls your info. Once you have references you will have a much easier time being anonymous.
Thank you for your reply. The necessity of the provider having a hobby friend didn't occur to me and that certainly is a flaw in my concept.
But trust me, I am acutely aware of how unimportant I am - in fact I spend a hour every other week with another type of professional to deal with my inferiority issues 
It's not that I think I have more to lose than others. It's simply that I have my limits, what other risks people are willing to take is up to them. If someone in a higher tax bracket with an IQ 20 points higher than mine feels comfortable sharing his personal info, good for him. I don't feel entitled to play by my rules - I'm trying to find someone who is willing to and if I can't, then I'm ready to accept that hobbying may not be for me. I didn't post this with the intention that providers should play by my rules, I was more interested in hearing intelligent people such as yourself point out any logistical flaws. And for that I appreciate your response. Best.
I'm definitely going to have to agree with Natasha here. And you're either going to have to recalibrate your rules, or you're going to have to find another way to get your needs met. Most of us just don't need the money that badly to just go along with this alternative to screening (which quite frankly doesn't completely make sense to me).
While I appreciate your polite attitude here, at the same time, it does frankly annoy me a little when men want to get around screening because "they just can't risk it." LEO is not the only reason ladies screen their clients. Ladies here also want to make sure that we have your info so you won't short, rob or attack them....and if you do, we'll be able to blacklist you and/or notify the authorities. You say you understand our the ladies' need for safety, but do you really? Do you understand that without that information, we're at a considerably higher risk for violence? And if we don't have that information, and something bad happens, there is nothing we can do? And do you understand that that's a real risk? My motto is that we play by my rules or we don't play at all. And any guy who doesn't understand that or scoffs at that is not the type of guy I want to see.
So, you're not willing to sign up for P411, date-check or rs2k, and you're not willing to give out your work info. I really can't imagine a woman in her right mind who would see you if you told her that...no offense. I guess get to the bank, get a bunch of singles, and have fun at the strip club.
rapists, serial killers, psychos, etc.
Safety is #1.
You seem too concerned with the LE aspect, when in reality there are worse things out there.
nothing like knowing my friend can find me AFTER I'm dead.
Hi there. The idea I was attempting (apparently unsuccessfully) to convey, is that a killer probably wouldn't leave a trail of bread crumbs for LE to trace back to him. Therefore, if a client leaves the aforementioned trail of bread crumbs, he's probably not a killer. Or, at the very least, if he's willing to kill someone knowing that her friend knows exactly how to get LE to find him afterward, then I'm not sure that verifying where he works would serve as any more of a deterrent. Unless you were dealing with a very specific type of killer that didn't mind serving 25 to life, as long as his employer didn't find out.
He/they proceeded to rape and rob these girls.
They awoke two days later in a state of confusion.
I'm guessing he's thinking the cops won't believe some hooker that's probably already hooked on drugs and/or she'll be too scared to contact police for fear of prosecution.
He/they are wrong because LE isn't buying that BS and we are no longer afraid to report it.
You might be different but I'm just guessing....I don't gamble.
There are alternatives to providing rl work info and your driver's license. In my brief experience as a hobbyist, I have passed the screening test of a number of providers. Remember, the key purpose of screening for the providers is to make sure you aren't LE and that you aren't some psycho. Any information which they can verify can serve that purpose.
Hi, thanks for your reply. Specifically what alternatives?
I hope you enjoy watching the football games today, as I would think there's a 99% chance a hobbyist would be very interested in today's events.
SHOWING UP IS INTENT WHICH EQUALS ARREST! Why do you think smart providers are not going to MEET up for coffee? It's intent, and if a cop is on the other end, she is arrested...no questions asked. That is what most of you keep missing when you try to get around screening that makes sense. If she has your room number, guess what? She also has your name, which she can then find out everything she needs to know about you. Whether you meet a HOOKER at a concert, a coffee shop, or at freaking church makes no difference.
You have 3 options...either go through the screening for select providers, or go see some half wit who is hooked on drugs, likely has a pimp, and is dumb enough to be alone with a guy she knows nothing about. Your final option is to not hobby, which of course, no one said you had to in the first place. Guys like you make our job and our sanity all the more taxing, so most of us just send your mail right to spam. It is not OUR job to make you happy BEFORE you pay us..sorry, that's just the breaks.
-- Modified on 1/20/2013 2:20:57 PM
I'll divide this into two sections:
EARNEST: Wow, I didn't realize showing up for coffee/dinner is enough to pin a provider. I mean, you would know better than I, but that's shocking to me. If so, then yeah, my concept is inherently flawed.
How does knowing my room number equal knowing my name? Bribe the desk clerk to disclose it?
I guess an issue I have with screening (and again, I'm not suggesting that the entire system needs to change to accommodate me, I was just dipping my toe in the water) is that it smacks of Lucky Sock Syndrome. Why isn't LE pinning more providers? Surely not because providers cleverly refer to money as roses and make a website visitor click on a button that states they "solemnly swear" they are not LE before getting past the welcome page. Like an athlete wearing his lucky socks, these are really just things providers do to make themselves feel better. It seems LE doesn't pin more providers because they have bigger fish to fry and high-end discreet escorts are actually good for the economy. And respectfully, I don't see how screening proves a negative. If someone really wants to establish a fake employment record and photo ID, they can easily enough. Unless you're going to send a courier to personally visit someone's job or limit yourself to clients who have online profiles with large employers, I don't see how traditional screening proves a negative. It seems there are similar problems with relying on previous providers to vouch for a client. Already I've seen posts on here complaining that some providers are vouching for clients they haven't met. The whole thing seems a bit like a house of cards to me. But because high end escorts are good for the economy, it's probably not as big a deal as I'm making it out to be. All I'm saying is that I'm not comfortable with giving out my personal info, I'm not expecting everyone to stop the world for me.
SNARKY: True, no one said I had to hobby, but I also didn't say that you had to change your business model to accommodate me. I was just floating a concept, FFS. And if you had read my replies in this thread, I made it clear that I'm ready to accept that hobbling may not be for me. I'm sorry that your job can be taxing at times. What is that like? I'm fortunate enough to have a job where I'm sheltered from even the slightest of discomforts and all of my clients are perfect angels. And having to send a mail to your spam folder? That sounds horrible. Maybe there is a carpal tunnel support group you could join because of all the mouse-clicking you are needlessly subjected to.
BACK TO EARNEST: True, as an independent contractor, you don't have a job description. You simply price your services at what the market will bear. And apparently the market is full of men are willing to provide their personal info and they accept a handshake as surety that it won't be revealed. And if you can get men to do that, then, as Kanye said, "Get down, girl, go ahead, get down.". I respect your hustle, I really mean that.
Have you tried Backpage? Guys seem to have better luck finding providers that'll negate screening on that site.
EARNEST: Wow, I didn't realize showing up for coffee/dinner is enough to pin a provider. I mean, you would know better than I, but that's shocking to me. If so, then yeah, my concept is inherently flawed.
How does knowing my room number equal knowing my name? Bribe the desk clerk to disclose it?
I guess an issue I have with screening (and again, I'm not suggesting that the entire system needs to change to accommodate me, I was just dipping my toe in the water) is that it smacks of Lucky Sock Syndrome. Why isn't LE pinning more providers? Surely not because providers cleverly refer to money as roses and make a website visitor click on a button that states they "solemnly swear" they are not LE before getting past the welcome page. Like an athlete wearing his lucky socks, these are really just things providers do to make themselves feel better. It seems LE doesn't pin more providers because they have bigger fish to fry and high-end discreet escorts are actually good for the economy. And respectfully, I don't see how screening proves a negative. If someone really wants to establish a fake employment record and photo ID, they can easily enough. Unless you're going to send a courier to personally visit someone's job or limit yourself to clients who have online profiles with large employers, I don't see how traditional screening proves a negative. It seems there are similar problems with relying on previous providers to vouch for a client. Already I've seen posts on here complaining that some providers are vouching for clients they haven't met. The whole thing seems a bit like a house of cards to me. But because high end escorts are good for the economy, it's probably not as big a deal as I'm making it out to be. All I'm saying is that I'm not comfortable with giving out my personal info, I'm not expecting everyone to stop the world for me.
SNARKY: True, no one said I had to hobby, but I also didn't say that you had to change your business model to accommodate me. I was just floating a concept, FFS. And if you had read my replies in this thread, I made it clear that I'm ready to accept that hobbling may not be for me. I'm sorry that your job can be taxing at times. What is that like? I'm fortunate enough to have a job where I'm sheltered from even the slightest of discomforts and all of my clients are perfect angels. And having to send a mail to your spam folder? That sounds horrible. Maybe there is a carpal tunnel support group you could join because of all the mouse-clicking you are needlessly subjected to.
BACK TO EARNEST: True, as an independent contractor, you don't have a job description. You simply price your services at what the market will bear. And apparently the market is full of men are willing to provide their personal info and they accept a handshake as surety that it won't be revealed. And if you can get men to do that, then, as Kanye said, "Get down, girl, go ahead, get down.". I respect your hustle, I really mean that.
Gold Digger is indeed a lovely song, take the end, for example, "Because when you get on, he leave your ass for a white girl." Kanye makes it clear that men are self-interested as well, going for the perceived upgrade of a white woman when it suits their needs. It's not a diss song against women, it's pointing out that people do what's best for themselves. I really was sincere when I said I respect your hustle - lawyers, doctors, they're hustlers too. You gotta screen and I gotta keep my cards close to the vest. I was wondering if there was a way to bridge the gap between my interests and yours. The answer is apparently not, and yes, it is becoming clear that hobbying is probably not for me. I dipped my toe in the water and gingerly stepped out. No harm done.
Backpage seems really sketchy, no thanks. I was more interested in the companionship of a high quality lady such as yourself, Heather. Your page is really well done and you look intriguing. So stay safe, Heather, and I wish you the best. Perhaps I'll meet a high quality lady such as yourself in another life when I'm not so risk averse and less rough around my edges.
Look, there are risks in this hobby. Deal with it. Are you too good or too important to go through traditional screening? It's understandable that you would not feel comfortable giving your personal info to several different providers. If that is the case, do what many of us have done and join a verification service such as p411, Rs2K,or datecheck. These Verification services have good reputations for a reason. As I said, there are always risks, but you can reduce the risk by sticking to a provider who is well reviewed. Anything is possible but it's not probable at all that a well reviewed provider will be law enforcement or any other sinister thing.
If you think you are too important to get screened and that you have too much to lose, then don't participate in this hobby, but don't complain about not being able to see anyone and imply that those of us who are willing to get screened are not playing with a full deck.
I can't tell you why LE focuses their time and money on us but here's a hint...trafficking, pimps, and drugs. Sadly, just one bust for a misdemeanor is rarely what they are looking for, so they usually target specific providers and then bust the clients along with them. They also LOVE busting men who are of high profile such as athletes, politicians, and celebrities. Why? Because that gets them headlines, and headlines make it appear as if they are working hard to clean up their cities from us filthy whores lol.
I don't waste time with guys who attempt to "get around screening" and it's that simple. Maybe when I first started and needed a buck, but those days are long gone. I do this for side money, not my primary income, so I can tell a guy to get fked elsewhere..pun intended. You can fake employment all day long honey and most of us are going to catch it.
A company can't just open yesterday and we are going to accept it or just take your word for it. It will in fact be listed in the damn Treasury Dept. if it is a LEGIT business, and I don't take that "self employed" bs either. I CALL you at work to make sure the person emailing me, is in fact the person using that employment. VERY seldom is a cop going to go into a business and answer the damn phone, so you're reaching and basically trying to suggest that since there is no 100 percent way to screen, we should not do it at all. Hell, then I guess we should all stop using condoms for sex too since they are only 99 percent effective. Brilliant!
I don't much care what you choose to do, but we are telling you how it is. Once again, you have 3 options. Make a choice and live with it. It is not for you to understand why other men do what they do...worry about yourself. Or, is this for that paper we discussed in your last thread?
-- Modified on 1/21/2013 10:31:09 AM
" If someone really wants to establish a fake employment record and photo ID, they can easily enough."
That's not necessarily true. If someone wants to be verified that way, you bet your ass I am going to research the shit out of the company and their name. And I have a screening assistant, so two people are going to be researching the shit out of the company and name. If nothing comes up when looking for the business online other than its website, and there's no record of that person's name anywhere, I move on. I'm not going to give out all my screening methods and resources, but I have a lot, and I know how to use them. If something doesn't add up, I don't book. It's really that simple. And I highly doubt someone's going to take the time to phony up a new identity, which would have to be more than a driver's license in oder to pass most higher end ladies' screening methods (you'd honestly have to either create a whole new online persona, and have to have a bunch of people surrounding and supporting this new online identity, or you'd have to phony up more documents in order to be on the public radar), or make up a new business, which would involve getting at least some sort of answering service, because most ladies do need a main switchboard line (in which case you should probably have a credit card or a bank account linked to your fake name, lest your real name show up on the business profile) and be listed on some other site somewhere in the world. I just don't think it would be worth the time and effort.
Once again, the bottom line is that she needs to be comfortable with you. You need to ask her specifically what else she will take as references or for screening information. Sometimes that means you need to give her provider references, and you might need to see someone who is a little more lax with her screening in order to see someone else who is a lot more tight with her screening. Coming on the board and writing a dissertation pleading your case is useless, because the girl has to be comfortable with you. Others are seeing her enough for her to be happy with how she is doing things, so stop thinking that ranting on here is gonna make a difference. It won't. It's as effective as you telling American Express that you are gonna go on Facebook and rant about how much their policies suck.
What you are proposing has numerous problems:
1. You are asking the provider to commit time by going to your hotel lobby.
2. LE can still have a room in its name. You are not hedging out the LE risk.
3. You left out how the client contacted the provider. Initial contact always occurs through an ad with an email or phone number, which can be Googled to find out that it is sex for pay. However you dress it up, once you started talking about sex for pay, you have committed a crime. You have not hedged out ANYTHING.
4. You completely did not think this through. You cannot argue style over substance, you cannot argue form over function. You can prove that contact was made through an email or phone number that comes back to an ad for sex for money. A thousand people have thought of this before you. You aren't offering anything new, and you have not addressed the risks.