girls in this country are REPULSED my un-circumcised penis's especially if they are young [that and back hair]. only girls i know that are semi-ok with it are providers [because they have to be nice about it]. i have a thing for hot english men and will deal with it with them. but it's just gross and ucky, do your son a huge favor because it's a more complicated surgery when they are older.
I always considered it to be unnecessary and cruel, but now I am having doubts and I wonder if I was wise to say no to it. I heard a long time ago that it was more pleasurable to not be circumcised, but now I am hearing the opposite. Plus the idea of smegma weirds me out. I won't know how to instruct him on the basic care procedures. Should I reconsider while he is still a baby?
I am 100% ANTI-CIRCUMCISIONIST! If it is not your penis, you do not have the right to cut it! Please download the PDF versions on this center's link and be informed before you make a choice.
I begin with two quick and general observations: (1) everyone is entitled to their viewpoint and (2) this thread strikes me as unusual for this forum.
That being said, I must say that as a jewish male (and hobbyist), I'm hurt and dismayed by NetMichelle's post and response.
I would also ask you to distinguish between a circumcision, sometimes performed by inexperienced doctors, and a bris, which is a jewish ceremony including a circumcision, performed by trained mohels. See:
While I respect your feeelings concerning the Jewish ceremony that involves circumcision, I think that your post is dead wrong. NetMichelle was not attacking your religion, she was giving an alternative to the practice of circumcision. I am not Jewish, but several of the males in my family were circumcised. I thank god everyday that I was not one of them. While having a foreskin raises some hygenic challenges that are easily overcome with proper bathing and care, I cannot envision myself enjoying sex without the added sensation that the foreskin provides. Finally, if you want to pass on NetMichelle becase of her opposition to circumcision, go right ahead, that leaves her for someone else that will truly appreciate her and meet her without hangups.
Where have you been all my life??? Please, go right ahead. I am sure there is something else that I would believe in just as strongly that will persuade you to change your mind such as perhaps my desire to defend the 1st ammendment? For the record, I have lots of Jewish clients/friends/family and I love them all dearly, but there is no way I will ever be in favor of m/f genital mutilation. Nope, not budging. Oh and by the way, I am uncut!
Let him choose when he gets older. Let him have the choice. As a provider and former neuroscientist, I will say that those with intact foreskins do feel more. So sue me.
Very well said. I'm a Nice Jewish Girl from Brooklyn...The Rebbe's Granddaughter, matter of fact. There are SO many different reactions to this subject. I, for one, however, agree with you 100%. Anyone comparing this to genital mutilation doesn't have ALL the info...
I made the decision not to have him circumcised minutes after he was born. I didn't know what he would be (boy or girl) beforehand. I have been feeling like I may have been hasty in my decision. The only reason I am rethinking it now is because of a few points a trusted friend of mine (who happens to be a doctor) made. I am fairly certain I made the right decision; it is just that since I don't have a foreskin myself, and I am happy with the way my penis is, I wonder if I am committing him to a life of possible health issues that I have no way of helping him understand. The nurse in the hospital (who, of course knows nothing about penis ownership) said that he will always have to wipe it after pissing (what?!?!?!)which to me would be a major hassle since I piss all the time and just about anywhere I want to. I was hoping for more feedback than this, and no offense michelle; but I would rather hear from some men on this issue.
personally I think the nurse who told you that was an idiot. I can't believe she's a medical professional and doesn't know any better! Uncircumsized men pull their foreskin back when they urinate! Not doing so would be tantamount to shitting through you skivves! I'm not going into a rant here, but if you have any questions, PM me and I'd be more than happen to tell you what you want to know, in a more private forum!
Why would anyone in his right mind listen to nonmedical advice from people on this board (although well-intentioned) on this topic? Some say yes - some say no. Who you gonna trust? When your child is involved, you should be talking to a doctor. In this situation, why would anyone listen to total strangers who may or may not have a clue? Talking to a doctor that you trust eliminates a huge amount of uncertainty. This should be obvious!
SPEAK TO A DOCTOR on matters such as this. How's that for phrasing? I thought my first post on the subject was clearcut and obvious, but apparently not for everyone!
Your logic clearly indicates that unless you're an expert on the subject, you can have no reasonable opinion!!! Really scary, dude. To take this a step further, how can you a question a law if you're not lawyer? How can you appreciate art if you're not an artist. Etc. etc........ BTW - every doctor has his/her own opinion on this topic. So should you do a study????
when my son was born, I also was in doubt about getting him cut or not, as 1/2 of my family was against and the other half was for it. I decided to go ahead and circuncise just because I didn't want him to be "different" when he was growing up and be discriminated by women later in life. Based on my sexual encounters with men who are cut and not cut, I have to say the uncut ones feels inadequate and always asks "do you mind an uncut guy?". Unfortunately, the majority of women refuses or dislike to go down on uncut guys...why? Smegma is one factor, is truly a gooey nasty stuff and if the guy doesn't have pristine hygiene, ohhhh boy it smells too. So, I was thinking "should I deprive my son to be orally enjoyed by the women he meets in his life or should I listen to the ones in my family who does NOT have a dick and are preaching the pain & cruelty song to me?" So, I went ahead and cut it. I don't regret doing it. As a provider, I've seen guys with uncut and nice clean dicks, but also I've seen guys with not so good looking dicks, with too much skin around their shafts or covering their heads so much to the point is almost impossible to perform a blowjob. And the ones who have dicks like that are also insecure about themselves and wish they had it done and now blame their parents for it.
20 years ago 95% of males were circumsized and today only 65% are so there is a dramatic change occuring in the way people think. I didnt have a choice in the matter but some studies done say the male does lose some sensitivity by being circumsized. Have to remember this practice was started thousands of years and now that science is taking over there are many questions as to the old myths and some substantiation to the logic that it is not as healthy as was originally thought.
I am uncut and never worry about my adequacy. And every woman that I have met was willing to see me again, even the ones that I did not like but called by mistake because of a picture or phone number change on their part. My suggestion to you is that you look for better clientele, assuming that you are deserving of such.
Easy there killer! The lady was just giving her feedback as was requested in the original post. Just because she shared her experience that SOME guys had a complex about it, in no way implicates you personally. It seems to me that your reaction here is way out of line!
my clientele is not made of runts, in fact is made of many of you guys who posts on the boards all the time. The amount of money you have doesn't mean you take good care of your grooming. Unfortunately, I saw few guys who were driving brand new mercedes SL and BMWs, but had very poor hygiene. Is part of our business and is our decision to either go ahead with the session or politely tell the gentleman to step in the shower and, if he refuses, to ask him to leave. That's NOT what we are discussing here. In my view, the only two guys whose opinions should be considered by the original poster are the ones who did experience being uncut and then circumcised later in life. They know what I'm talking about, is impossible for a guy with excessive skin that covers his head to get touched and, god forbid, have his skin pulled back for cleaning by me. I ALWAYS wash guys, cut or not, but I do spend extra time gently cleaning an uncut guy. I didn't imply that ALL uncut guys are equal, but I mentioned my own experience with the ones I've met and discussed the topic.
I'm not circumcised and it has never been a problem for me. Anyone who pratices a modicum of personal hygiene would not find it anymore difficult keeping an uncircumcised penis clean, than a cut one. I have never had any feelings of low self esteem, nor, was I ever ostracised or made to feel different as a child. As an adult,I never had sex with a woman who refused to fellate me because of it, and to the best of my recollection, I can't even recall any negative comments.
That being said, indivuals are different. Prehaps, others have more prevalent foreskin than I. When I am erect, most woman don't even realize that I am not circumcised, and since most of them see me in that condition before they observe me flaccid, it seems to be of little consequence after the fact. Lol. While I have never had a woman tell me personally that she preferred an uncircumcised penis, I have heard and read of those who claim to. This thread should generate some interesting responses. In closing:
Bobby and Mike,(age six) were sharing a semi-private hospital room. Bobby asks Mike, "So, why are you here?"
Mike says, "Got my tonsils out. It was pretty cool! Didn't hurt a bit and they give me all the ice cream and Jello I want! How about you?"
"Gotta get circumcised!" replies Bobby.
"Oh Shit! What a bummer!" replies Mike.
" What do you mean?" Bobby askes.
" I had that done when I was 5 days old!" says Mike. " Couldn't walk for over a year!"
On cleanliness and on how women react to an uncircumcised penis. I have never had any problems at all. Over the years I have found that showering at least twice a day and also after exercising does the trick. As I pointed out earlier, any provider that gets uncircumcised guys coming to her with smegma under the foreskin should look for better clients, guys like the ones that she sees probaly have not bathed properly for more than 15 to 24 hours and are more than likely cheap, low class runts.
I was not circumcised as a child. When I was about 17, I started having problems with redness and irritation. See, as a child, I did not always pull my foreskin back enough before urinating. When you have a long overhang and your penis is in it's most flaccid state, it can be difficult. Nobody stressed the importance of this to me as a child. It's not something you hear about that often. Anyway, I did used to need to wipe after urinating sometimes, and even after I learned better handling techniques. The first time a girl put her hand on it, I jumped back because it was so uncomfortable. Overtime the I retracted the foreskin, I was in pain. So I got cut right about the time of my 18 birthday. My head is still a little more sensitive and delicate than those who were circumcised as babies but it's much cleaner, no irritation and looks quite cute I might add. The negative is that I know what it feels like to have it and it is true orgasms are better when you still have your foreskin. But the orgasms are still very good and I feel better and am more comfortable. And I say orgasms were better with the foreskin but not sex because Nobody could touch me there when I wasn't circumcised because of the discomfort. So, I could only masturbate. If you choose not to have your child circumcised, please teach him from a young age how to clean and take care of his penis. And have a urologist take a look every so often and make sure the foreskin is not to tight and everything is healthy. I'm glad I was eventually circumcised. I wish my parents had the foresight to get it done when I was a baby. I think it will be impossible to make a decision about this that will be 100% right.
it is part of my job to ask the parents of the new-born if they would like to have their baby boy circumcised. i am surprised to see quite a few blank-faced parents, especially among a certain community. some of them are outright HORRIFIED when i explain myself.
some want a day to consider. MOST of these parents refuse one in the end. this is their personal decision.
some want it. again, their personal decision.
some ask MY opinion.
in all instances, the R/B/A is first discussed : risks/benefits/alternatives. this is part of ANY procedure, especially SURGICAL. (btw folks, PLEASE ask your MD about the R/B/A of ANYTHING that is planned, you would be surprised at the number of things that come to light; things that you did not consider)
i digress. anyways ...
the risks? hemorrhage, infection, trauma to the urethra (pee-hole)etc ... usually very RARE.
benefits? after a LOT of consideration, MEDICALLY, i would say NONE. there USED to be data suggesting that there was less Cancer of the Penis and less Urinary Tract Infection in the circumsised; further studies were extremely equivocal. studies showing a possible decrease in HIV transmission in circumcised males vs. Uncircumcised should be viewed with caution. (ummm use a condom, anyways?)
SOCIALLY? will the child feel 'odd and different' in the shower? maybe, maybe not. hmmm ... no girl will wanna blow the guy huh? well, as someone rightly pointed out, LESS people are getting circumcised these days. how things will be a few years from now is anybody's guess.
alternatives? well, just say 'no' ... lol
if circumcision is NOT chosen, then cleaning under the foreskin after retracting it is to be explained to the parents by the pediatrician. this is USUALLY done in later years, as the child grows. hygiene is important and education in this direction is only to be welcomed.
yadayadayada ...
well, my R/B/A spiel is about 2 mins long, if that. then, some ask me what my PERSONAL opinion is. and i say NO, i am not for it.
i HATE doing it. the 'instruments of torture' are graphically illustrated in Netmichelle's post. (Gomco Bell) sucker hurts and no amount of EMLA (a local anesthetic) cream does the trick. even after all these years, i can't help but cry sometimes. (so much for professional 'distance'!) i am kidded around severely by the nurses and fellow colleagues ...'hey, the baby wont remember it' ... and of course, they are right ... but still ... it hurts to do a procedure that has no real MEDICAL benefit.
just a few thoughts from the 'other side' sorry for rambling on
When my son was born a couple of years ago, I went through a similar dilemma. Althogh I was cut, I had also done enough homework to know that the times, they were a-changing. Two days after he was born, I still had not decided, so I finally made the decision and let the doctor go ahead. Initially, upon seeing him immediately afterwards, I felt guilty as it looked . . .uhhh . . . "uncomfortable". Now, in retrospect, I am glad that I decided to go ahead. I can give him information about care that I have personal knowledge over; he will never see me and wonder why he is different from me or anybody else; it is easier to maintain (face it, guys are lazy); and lastly, as pointed out in earlier posts, you never hear of guys who were cut wishing that they weren't . . .
For the ones that talk about disease with the uncut foreskin: http://www.cirp.org/library/statements/aap1999/ "1.2 million newborn males are circumcised in the United States annually at a cost of between $150 and $270 million...circumcised infant boys had a significantly higher risk of penile problems (such as meatitis) than did uncircumcised boys" * see pic attached.
Foreskin restoration: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3543481/ "Nonetheless, restorers speak with quiet joy about their new foreskins. They describe heightened sexual sensation -- increased sensitivity for a man, less friction for his partner. They insist that the newly covered glans can become more sensitive. "
I am actually turned off by uncut c^cks. They remind me of a dog's penis for some reason Thank god, most of my clients are cut. But to each their own. Some may find cut unattractive. But growing up with a housefull of males, you get use to seeing one type of penis. My very first encounter with someone who was not cut, was actually being in this business a couple of years ago, and a very bad one: he dripped, and it smelled very very bad. Eversince then, I dread the uncut, but have gone through the appointments anyways. But, whenever I encounter a drippy drip and unclean uncut c^ck, I always make sure he taken immediately into shower and extra time is added on the our session to make sure that he is thoroughly clean.
As for kids, if I do have a son one day, he surely will be circumsized. I have spoken to many civi's and provider girlfriends, and they had shared the same point of view. Also, just because a lady does not speak up about her preferences, doesn't mean that it's not there: it's just not spoken. Most men don't know how I feel about uncut, but some do.
you'll probably encourage her to invest in a nice pair of silicon inflatables at the age of 16. After all honey, "just because a man does not speak up about his preferences, doesn't mean that it's not there".
girls in this country are REPULSED my un-circumcised penis's especially if they are young [that and back hair]. only girls i know that are semi-ok with it are providers [because they have to be nice about it]. i have a thing for hot english men and will deal with it with them. but it's just gross and ucky, do your son a huge favor because it's a more complicated surgery when they are older.
Do you realise that you must be the only 'civilised' country left that routinely allows circumcision for non-religous reasons? If you asked an Australian, British or European surgeon to circumcise your baby boy s/he would look at you like you were some kind of sadistic nutter.
No one does it any more guys, not since we discovered soap and water. I am shocked that it's still a common practice in the US. I had assumed that this strange rite was no longer practiced and that the baby boomers were the last generation to be subjected to routine male genital mutilation.
I strongly believe that circumcision is a violation of the child's human rights, regardless of the religous orientation of the parents. Sure, if there is a sound medical reason then do it, and if he wants it done later, then that's his choice. But those are the only two valid reasons - medical necessity or his choice.
Yes, I had no idea at the differences about this until an American relative visited after my son's birth and asked why he wasn't circumcised. What?? In the UK it's never even mentioned, and routine circumcision isn't practised except for religious or medical reasons. The same goes for the rest of Europe, so far as I'm aware.
I once read somewhere that sex without a foreskin is akin to seeing in black and white as opposed to colour. Can't speak for the truth of that myself, but it's an interesting analogy.
uncircumcised is better than that for the circumcised. How does anyone know this? How do you test for this? How would an uncircumcised man know what sex would be like if he were circumcised, and conversely? Sex and the reaction to it depends on the individual, so comparing the reactions of circumcised men to uncircumcised men doesn't cut it in my book. Yes, I know there are other ways to "test" feelings, but unless an individual can compare sex with an uncircumcised penis to that of a circumcised one (I certainly would not volunteer for that!), I think we're blowing smoke here.
For the record, I'm circumcised. Sex feels pretty good to me! I don't have any complaints! Quite frankly, never in my life did it occur to me what sex might be like if I were uncircumcised. Even as I write this I'm only thinking about it in an intellectual manner. I mean really, who gives a shit? I got a dick - I like to use it, circumcised or not! Circumcision should be based on religious or health reasons, unless you're a sadist that likes to see infants scream (which they do - babies absolutely feel it, even though they will not remember it).
Well, the original poster, I guess. He asked the question because he's worried about his son. So, I'll reply in some detail, to the best of my ability. If you don't want to read it, please pass by now.
You also asked:
"How does anyone know this? How do you test for this?"
Here's the best answer I can give.
The best test must be by way of those adults who, for one reason or another, have been circumcised later in life, as they have personal experience of the comparison. One such is a poster above going by the alias of "FormerBaloneyDick" and if you read his post you will see that he prefers to be circumcised. However, as he was feeling pain and was unable to have intercourse uncircumcised, that's no surprise. A small percentage of men will require circumcision for medical reasons. You will note that he admits to a loss of a degree of sensitivity since circumcision.
I have also read a number of contrary accounts, and here's an example:
"Getting circumcised was the most foolish thing I've done in my life. I had it done when I was 27. It 's now been three full years since this grave mistake was made. Having grown up in the U.S., as hard as it is to admit, I got circumcised purely out of curiosity, as the subject had been so close to the top of my mind for all my life.
"I was quite sexually active before marriage, and had a pretty normal sex life after marriage for two years before my reduction. Now I am essentially only interested in oral sex, as vaginal sex does not provide the detailed sensations that it did when I had a foreskin. The last thing a foreskin is - is a hindrance to sex. The analogy of "seeing without color" is perfectly apt to describe sex without a foreskin. Rather than being a touch-sensitive organ, it becomes merely a pressure-sensitive tool. BIG DIFFERENCE!"
This is just one of a number of comments set out here at:
This is an anti-circumcision site but if you scroll down the page and read the comments by adults who were cut later in life, there are a number of anecdotal stories both for and against, and there does seem to be at least a modicum of balance in the information provided.
For a clinical explanation about the mechanics, hows, whys and wherefors:
from which the following is an extract, which should explain why there is more sensitivity with a foreskin.
"Following circumcision, the foreskin of the penis has been cut away. The surface of the glans has developed a thick, dry layer of keratin (toughened skin), which makes it less sensitive to unwanted stimulation, but also less sensitive to the more subtle qualities of lovemaking.
"The gliding mechanism During intercourse the loose skin of the intact penis slides up and down the shaft of the penis, stimulating the glans and the sensitive erogenous receptors of the foreskin itself. On the outstroke the glans is partially or completely engulfed by the foreskin. This is known as the `gliding mechanism.'
"The gliding mechanism is Nature's intended mechanism of intercourse. As such, it contributes greatly to sexual pleasure. Also, since more of the loose skin of the penis remains inside the vagina, the woman's natural lubrication is not drawn out to evaporate to a great extent, which makes sex easier without using artificial lubricants.
"... When unfolded, the prepuce is large enough to cover the length and circumference of the erect penis and acts as a natural sheath through which the shaft glides during coitus. Only the presence and functions of the prepuce allow for physiologically normal coitus to occur as designed by nature."
Basically, it's there for a reason. There's nothing you can do about yours if it's gone, but I don't think it's a bad thing for anyone who is taking this step for their child to do so without being properly informed. But by all means, the original poster should rely on expert opinion, not mine.
are, in my view, conjecture and not fact. "A recent study concluded that circumcised men engage in a wider variety of sexual practices than uncircumcised men. ALTHOUGH THERE HAVE BEEN NO STUDIES TO CONFIRM THE IDEA, it is a 'reasonable hypothesis' that if circumcision diminishes sensitivity during intercourse, then men will seek more effective stimulation through other forms of sexual activity or through masturbation."
IMHO, this is nonsense. I'm circumcised, as is just about everybody I know. I never heard a soul complain about a lack of sensitivity. Furthermore, the idea that ANYONE would prefer masturbation over intercourse for sensitivity reasons is beyond comprehension! In other words, I totally reject the idea that was a "reasonable hypothesis."
As far as people getting circumcised later in life, well, the observations are mixed and the sample is way too small to be really statistically significant. In addition, as your post alluded to, circumcision in adulthood may carry with it problems that negate any comparisons.
OK, on to the next topic. I think this one has been exhausted, and, as is many times typical on these boards, no firm conclusions have been reached.
I was 40 when I had it done! Response diminished considerably. Recovery time was very long (wayyyyy toooo sensitive). Looking back it at I can safely say that for me - while I'm OK with having done it, sex for me was much better before. But, now I last much longer and my partner is happier.!!!
I know this thread is not about the tolerance of other's religious beliefs. On the other hand circumsion is an important part of Jewish ritual. We are all survived the moal or the pediatric surgeon without any lasting ill effects. Maybe it has prepared us for all the other shit we have had to tolerate and survive over the last 6000 plus years of our history.
It's been proven to be absolutely unnecessary from a medical perspective. However, women are accustomed to most men with a fully exposed mushroom top. So, for the little guy's future benefit, you better get it done. Soak his pacifier in Mogen David before, so at least the little fucker can have a nice buzz on when he gets the snip.
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Thank god, most of my clients are cut. But to each their own. Some may find cut unattractive. But growing up with a housefull of males, you get use to seeing one type of penis. My very first encounter with someone who was not cut, was actually being in this business a couple of years ago, and a very bad one: he dripped, and it smelled very very bad. Eversince then, I dread the uncut, but have gone through the appointments anyways. But, whenever I encounter a drippy drip and unclean uncut c^ck, I always make sure he taken immediately into shower and extra time is added on the our session to make sure that he is thoroughly clean.