A good place to start would be how they present themselves. Read the websites, don't just skip to the pictures. Pay attention to the words they use in them and also in how they communicate with you. You have to make sense of what you see....also, make sense of what you don't see. If you happen to run across a girl who doesn't advertise much, doesn't inundate every single message board with advertisements as often as she can, and she's charging an above average sum of money for her company, there might be a good chances that she understands her exclusivity and is worth every penny. Nothing about this business is a science, but there are steps you can take.
I will tell you, though. If you already have the mindset that "oh that's too much money, that's not worth it", it won't be productive for you. You have to have an open mind when you're looking to indulge.
For a while now I see girls with rates of $500 - $1000 that have never been reviewed. I can understand if they were a porn star or there was something else that stood out about them. Most of them to me appear just to be gnd's testing the market.
My question to my felloow hobbiests is what is the most you are willing to pay for a lady with no reviews or recommendations from a fellow hobbiest? For many of us $500 is too high in the first place but there are plenty of hobbiests that this is their general range.
For the high end, you just know what to expect as far as service (BBBJ, DATY, DFK, multiple pops). So as long as that's understood (which is a whole other topic in and of itself), it just comes down to whether she is hot enough to justify the premium over a more standard girl. For example, there is a busy agency in town that charges $300/hour for some attractive, solid girls.
I would say that if a girl is ridiculously hot (and a first-timer/semi-pro/GND/cougar/testing-the-waters type), $500 for me personally is worth the gamble.
That's just me, though.
Then again, I've been on the fence about seeing another girl who is not that well-reviewed and charges $350/hour, too, so I guess my rule isn't hard and fast.
The gals have to have some sort of cred for me to consider them
nycad
I actually do this quite often actually, but I tend to negotiate down since I don't know the level of service. Unfortunately I've mostly hit duds. Not so much B & S, more just lack luster service. Girls tend to be really attractive and think that this business is a direct correlation to they're usual life where their beauty gets them through everything and work ethic goes out the window.
Recently. There was a really good one that I TOFTT'd. She goes by Charity Love on Eros, claims to be a porn star. It's hard to find stuff on her by that name but she does pop up as Scarlette Jolie. She is the real deal. Spent 1200 for the hour but I actually knew who she was, plus I was able to peace together some adds from high end agencies that finally convinced me that she was real. In any case I felt confident in spending that amount given that I knew what I was fairly confident in what I would be getting.
I need to put up a review. I originally did then told her about it, but then I had the admins not approve it or certain reasons. In any case now she does want me to review her, so I have to see if the admins will let my second review go through even though I asked them to reject the first.
Hey sometimes they just don't want to be reviewed.
For the most part I am being priced out of the hobby.
I second the view that I would never see an independent with no reviews or a referral.
Like it or not, there is a large silent component to the market that is indifferent to paying $500+ for whatever their preference is. I suspect that if you're the type looking for a [fill in the blank] girl that is new to the business then you take a flyer sometimes. What pisses me off much more is that when one of these girls snares a few guys and pushes them to post undeserved reviews to help out the new girl create a little buzz. These girls don't have the performance to last very long but I've been caught by more than one of those situations.
... of reviews. I use reviews strictly to find out what services are provided. IF she has no reviews I will email her and ask her if my favorite things are on her menu. IF she does not respond or responds no then I move on.
If they're not standing out to you, it's because it goes beyond photos. Girls in higher price ranges generally come with a sense of elegance, style, and intelligence that the others don't have. They know how to do more than just suck, fuck, and chatter about themselves a little. And most of them know this, so they charge to reflect what they're capable of bringing to a session. But I think you have to be a certain type of hobbyist to appreciate this. It's almost like trying to convince someone that a bottle of wine is worth $500 when they're only accustomed the type sold in supermarkets.
I'm saying all of this with a wealth of comparative experience, by the way.
That would be all great if there was level of proof that is what they are bringing to the table. But to start out at $1000 sight unseen?
In my experience, at least some of these girls aren't really just popping out of nowhere. They are being introduced to the business by other providers or have just emerged from being UTR. I would never--and I mean never--see a girl without at least a handful of reviews from reputable reviewers for anything approaching 500. I really can't see why anyone would take that risk in this market, which is positively saturated with high-quality sure things in the 400-700 range (Kitty, Justina, Brianna, Olivia . . . the list goes on and on).
But I have seen girls for up to $1k with no reviews at all, when they have been referred to me by other providers whom I trust, and it has worked out great.
A good place to start would be how they present themselves. Read the websites, don't just skip to the pictures. Pay attention to the words they use in them and also in how they communicate with you. You have to make sense of what you see....also, make sense of what you don't see. If you happen to run across a girl who doesn't advertise much, doesn't inundate every single message board with advertisements as often as she can, and she's charging an above average sum of money for her company, there might be a good chances that she understands her exclusivity and is worth every penny. Nothing about this business is a science, but there are steps you can take.
I will tell you, though. If you already have the mindset that "oh that's too much money, that's not worth it", it won't be productive for you. You have to have an open mind when you're looking to indulge.
1. You'd be surprised how quickly some (not all) of these girls will reduce their rates when asked. Start an email exchange with them. Be very polite. Begin by asking about their availability. Then ask about their rates. When they quote the higher-than-average rate, reply with something like, "Thanks. Unfortunately, my upper limit is $XXX. Best of luck!" Sometimes you'll get either a counter offer or they'll agree to your rate.
2. I, too, think it's ridiculous to enter the market sight unseen at these higher-end rates. Part of it, though, is that there hasn't been any backlash. This is the first post in a while that I've seen here on this board discussing the subject. I actually wrote a post objecting to the rates being charged by a new girl with no reviews who posted on this board a few months ago (and it wasn't just the lack of reviews, but the quality of her photos and the way she presented herself—she was more like a $350-400 provider than a $750). But my post was rejected because board rules state that you can't critique an ad post. If you feel strongly about this, speak on by starting threads like these more regularly.
3. I'm not objecting to the high end here. I enjoy playing in the more upscale hotels with upscale women who know what they're doing and do it well. But no one here enjoys getting ripped off.
I disagree with most of what you had to say...particularly the thing about calling providers and offering a lower rate (doesn't work with elite providers - they'll hang up on you and not answer again). But I'm mostly curious as to why you would feel the need to openly object to a provider's rates in an ad that she posted. If you think they're out of line, you could simply move on and patronize someone else. I think other factors may be at play in your behavior that bear examination if you find yourself so emotionally vested in this process that you think there should be "backlash" for rates you deem too high. That's a little too much anger for a hobby that's supposed to be about pleasure.
The previous poster was referring to ads that do not post a rate. If you ask for a rate and its too high and then beg off, its not really negiotiating if the provider then responds with a lower rate. If a provider lowers her rate because I decline her for revealing a high rate, I don't see her as I would feel bad forcing a provider to lower her rate--and possibly her service.
I never said call the provider, I strongly recommend that these negotiations take place via email, and that they be conducted with respect. As others here have mentioned, it's quite possible that these newbie providers are entering the market at a high rate because they've been counseled to do so, or because they see these rates and believe they've available for the asking. A respectful hint that they might be better off entering the market at a lower rate, establish a reputation and then raise their rates accordingly seems to me entirely appropriate.
And, as for my response to the ad, it was offered as polite and helpful advice, not as an angry rant. In a similar spirit, I might suggest that you refrain from dime store psychoanalysis of the participants on this board and restrict your comments to the thread topics. Generally, it leads to more interesting discussion.
When I was a complete newbie, no VIP, I called in reply to an ad (Eros? BP? CV?) and said I didn't see a particular "number" (fee) in her ad. She said "8". I said Oh, thats more than I wanted to spend. "7!"
I was NOT negotiating. Further, I think if someone is asking for a certain amount and feels that they've settled for less than they are worth (got a bad deal), then the session will not be good. That's why I don't want to negotiate (except in very rare cases if other issues are involved).
Thank you, but I think I'd better look elsewhere. "6!" No, really, I don't want you to do that. "I can do 5 if you write a review." I don't know how to review. "Well, I can see you for 4." I had to end it and just get off the phone. No, I didn't see her. I saw someone else at her regular advertised rate and, fortunately for me as a newbie, had a great time!
I don't even call anyone whose fee is beyond my budgeted amount and I wouldn't want to risk a lousy session from someone who thought they were being cheated by accepting less than their listed fee.
I'd simply reply that someone starting out in the business has less of a sense of the difference in service level between a "good session" and a "mediocre session" than an experienced hobbyist does. She knows that she's trying to establish a reputation, she's feeling her way in a relatively new endeavor, so the likelihood that she'll penalize you at a lower rate is relatively low. You're more likely to get a mediocre session with a newbie provider if you catch her towards the end of the day after she's seen several other clients, because she hasn't learned how to pace herself and maintain her stamina.
That said, while I don't negotiate too often, I have from time to time. I've even found well established providers who are having a slow week gladly accept a booking at a lower rate if you agree to keep it quiet. And I've never had a problem, performance-wise.
I really think that, on this board in particular, we've deluded ourselves into believing that providers have all the power when it comes to price and as hobbyists we had better just toe the line. The truth is really quite different. The money is in our pockets before the transaction begins, after all. We should have more of a say where that demand curve meets the supply curve. And the truth is, from a 60,000 ft level, we do. We're not as aware of it day-to-day as we should be, that's all.
in my experience rates depend a lot to the extent the provider is part of an agency or an independent. Having spoken recently to someone who just left an agency which she claimed took 50% of her rate, she now charges 50% less as an independent. So someone who might be in the $1000 range at one point may become a $500 provider once she becomes independent. Same amount of money going into her pocket... it's up to providers to determine how much agencies are worth in terms of working with them, helping with security, bookings, etc. but it makes common sense that the very presence of any 'middleman' (or woman) will make rates to up irrespective of the quality of services on the menu.