he has another perspective, $700 for two hours is not cheap. $1500 for a month is not cheap either. And those SB is not naive at all.

I didn't move to SA b/c of $, I tried it bcause i wanted a more authentic dating experience without the relationship baggage.  Your objection seems to be that I'm vile for not paying thes girls enough.  That's absurd.  These girls are not pros.  They're mostly looking for someone they could date casually who has thir shit together and will also help them out with bills.  They are not seeking to maximize their monetary payoff by hooking up with the richest old dood.  That's what providers do.  The "real" sugar babies you reference are just like pros - they view things in a very transactional way and it's a huge turn off.  I would never want to "date" them and probably would not like them as a person.  

There's room for all types of hobbying, hobbyists, etc in the world and the SBs aren't somehow "taking" our clients.  Not that you said this, but just emphasizing there is someone for everyone.  Before you were a provider, or at least a smart one, you probably sold yourself way too short too.  I remember when I was 22, working 40hrs+ in sales, and taking home $1600/mo, IF I made good commission that month.  At that time, an extra 7 or 15 hundred bucks a month would've been freakin awesome!  To a provider, that money is just a normal day at the office.

A lot of us older guys have stayed in great shape and retained our reasonably good looks. So I'm wondering why you find the need to add the "creepy old men" comment.  
A guy in his early thirties paying for sex seems to be closer to the definition of "creepy."  Or is it "loser?"

Sorry man, but this is literally what girls have told me - they're in their late teens and early 20s, and they get bombarded with messages from men in their 50s and 60s who want the girls to call them daddy.  They think it's creepy.  It's not my opinion but it's the girls' opinions that matter.  I'm sure some girls actually get off om the big age differential but most girls do not.  The girls are thrilled when they can actually be with someone approximately their own age and won't get stares when we're out in public.

I am an old too. And we have to pay for this. When we were young it costed less. When you were 5, it might have cost you nothing to show your penis to GND, now cops will take you to the station. That's life. And he is not the loser, he just younger than you.

I've tried to be as accurate as I can and give all pertinent details.  i was also surprised at thr quality of the girls I met on SA and their interest level, which is why I wanted to share this for the hobbyists.  

It is better than hanging out his dick and thinking about world's power. He found the one and only and maybe they even marry. at least it is not riffraff wanting everything for nothing.

If you say so

One girl probably has a lazy eye, or missing leg or something.  Jk.  Again, the catch to your luck (there's ALWAYS a catch) is pregnant girl(s) on your hands who not only will want NO sex with you again, but also will key your car, pound on your door at 3am demanding you let her in, put a tracker on your car, call you 300X a day, and other fun pregnant SB activities.  Remember these parting words:  the younger the girl, the easier pregnant.  And even if she claims to be on the pill, if she wants to "keep" you all to herself, maybe you seem financially stable and like a good catch- then whoops, she forgot to take that pesky pill  

is it ewwww if I meet a girl at a bar or the park and dont use a condom on the second date?

Another story if the girl is smarter than you. Then don't use them. Also wash your hands after transaction. Many other people touched your cash when you transfered it.

to calculate risk, based upon age or demographics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WEtxJ4-sh4
Great video

agree re risk.  However for the record, the first girl I saw did not ask for any money at any point.  I even asked her after sex what she'd like, and she said whatever is fine.  I gave her 700 bc I thought it was fair, and I did not plan to see her again.  

Re: If you say so

I agree also that a man should not rely on a female saying that she is on the pill or any form of BC. As I say it takes two to tango and if you want to make sure she doesn't end up pregnant I would advise you to BOTH go in on the plan b and make sure she takes it. I've been in a relationship before where I had took my BC but got sick an hour later off food. I wasn't for sure if my BC came up so I told him and we both went and grabbed a plan b and I took it right in front of him so there are no misunderstandings. I think what you're doing is very risky and that you are taking advantage of the fact that these females happen to be cheaper and unwise about their actions. Good luck to you

You met her on a sugar daddy site.  

The "mostly lesbian" part makes no sense and makes you sound dumb. She is either straight, bi, or lesbo.

Well since you are talking about "physically attractive" men then that is what closeted gay men are. Guess you might be with the fruit cake club.

Girls at the rest party are mostly fat slobs. There are tons of college girls that are providing and they tend to be the hotter sophisticated girl rather than the typical chubby bound frat girl.

Good looking men are all gay.

Re: If you say so

Problem is the younger the girl the more a normal straight male will do what biology dictates.

I have two dates now .. no more, whom I met here- There can be called "hobbyists " becuase they do write reviews  time by time.
( or when asked)

You're vile because you admitted to seeking naive girls for barebacking, lowballing offers, and bragging how you're doing so well on SA versus the average hobbyist that's apparently not as young and handsome as you and spends more on hobbying. If you're looking for an authentic dating experience, why did you go to SA and not to a bar? A 20-something will have no issues dating a guy in his 30's in this day and age. You're in denial that $ isn't involved.

I'm not worried about SB's taking escorts' clients, there's enough penises in NYC for everyone. I just think OP is a creep and I hate how he's justifying sticking his uncovered weenie into any girl as long as she's not a provider =/

Yup you are -- brag about BBFS come on -- go jerk-- off in the corner -- you are not going to win many women fans here and probably not many monger fans as well -- thou the Italian Jewish girl from Jersey sounds like my cup of tea minus annoying personality -- but really keep the cover on DUDE -- or else your tool my not work very well for you.

I can't wait until he posts a topic about getting one of these girls pregnant or catching an STD. El oh ellll

What do your think he will name the baby?? Link?

Hotels and freedom do what I do and friendship - not a controlling freak john
but a lover.. married or single, old  or young
 - BUT respectful to my life as well
We all have things to do when we are not in bed.
 and In bed we have soooo much to do and soo little to think

I'm confused, I thought you were mad that I'm not paying these girls enough, but some of them didn't ask for money, and one clearly has had more experience at an SD arrangement than me.

But none of us are, hobby, civie, married, in a monestary, fundamentalist Christian "family values" etc.  Everyone does dirty stuff and pretends they're pure as the driven snow.  

I do not "seek" naive girls for bb sex.  I seek girls I find attractive, physically and emotionally in some way.  Before we engage in sex, I do not coerce them into bb sex (how would that even work?), I tell them when I got tested, ask them the same thing, and based on our interaction, make a judgment about risk and whether or not to use condoms, which I'm sure the girl does as well.  

These girls know my real identity, because they're smart and wouldn't want to meet up with a psycho.  If they do get pregnant, they can easily sue me for child support, so yes I would be held accountable for my actions, but isn't it my decision to make?  

She's bi, but generally finds girls more attractive than guys.  The fact that you need this spelled out for you makes you sound dumb.

If you don't "seek" them why are you on SA?  Who are you kidding?  You do this for sport. Do whatever floats your boat but don't come on here pretending to be a great guy. Your a gift giver. It will catch up with you in time if it hasn't already.

Bwahahahahahaha!  Right on Muddy!  That's awesome!

Then follow in his footsteps.  

I'm on SA because I don't want a monogamous relationship, and I don't want to mislead girls in "real" dating sites.  On SA the default expectation is no commitment.  So yes, I'm using money to keep expectations in line.  

OP here, it seems my original post is getting a lot of hate for god knows what reason.  So just to clarify:  my post is to share experience with fellow hobbyists.  It is not for providers.  I'm not saying providers suck, or the hobby sucks.  I am saying that for some hobbyists, consider trying SA as they may provide a better experience.  

So in other words you are with a masculine woman.

Problem is you are full of shit and dick in your mouth and we mean literally.
That is your problem. You talk like some know it all when you are nothing but a poser and a mangina

Actually, four, plus a few other friends.  Regardless, as a hobbyist to a fellow hobbyist...whatever works for you.  It's your hobby!

, Jon Snow.  =)

Alyson, thanks for your input.  I think you are right that it's always a good idea to assume that the other party is not revealing everything on SA.  Even though I try to be as upfront as possible (like talking about past arrangements), it would still be a turn off, for example, to discuss other concurrent arrangements.  I assume the girls I've met are looking for and may have other arrangements; it would be naive to believe otherwise.  

I am younger than you, and millenial civies rarely use condoms these days?  GOODBYE.

Another moronic comment.  The only women you get are fat slobs. And girls in this world won't use condoms depending on the price.

Coincidentally, I was out with my ATF SB earlier this week at dinner and sitting next to us was an older gentleman that I guess was between 60-70yo, with young Russian woman who was probably late 20s.  It was definitely pretty obvious, and my SB texts me from the table, 'how do you think they met😜'.  I laughed, and wasn't about to tell her that my best guess was probably TER vs. SA..  My sense is that relatively younger and descent looking guys tend to do much better on SA. Yes, many of the women are self conscious about being out in public with much older men; one girl I have seen has a strict rule on guys having to look under 45.  Of course I know pros who are self conscious about that as well.  That said, I have one hobby friend in his 60s who has met some great women on SA as well.

One day you will find out that you have fathered some children and end up paying child support.  Just a matter of time.

Waiting for Link to reply to justify his stupidity--err, logic. =p

Listen, I don't know you and am probably as old as your dad, but here's some old guy wisdom. 1. You need to value your health and your life more! Think about it, if this sleaze from Jersey was willing to go bare after just meeting you bc you "talked about" STDs, no medical paperwork confirming that either one of you are clean....for a small amount of money,  not a good sign. She is probably doing this with many men and if she is clean, won't be for long. Probably is a drug user too. My advice to you,  go see your doctor. Any one of these girls could have been carrying something that is asymptomatic at first. The "plan b" one doesn't seem health concious at all, sketchy as can be. Do the smart thing and use condoms. If you want bareback sex, find a steady, not for pay girl friend.

Tinder is for gay men and fat women.
However in SA you still got to pay which is no different. The problem with Link is he thinks he is getting hot women. With SA quality of girls is typically power and selective girls on such a site are scum.
At least here girls can be selective too but you are getting a better experience.

I think that's good advice, thanks man.  Honestly I regretted the hook up with the first girl too.  I asked her if she wanted to use a condom but when she said no I wasn't thinking.  I waited a couple of weeks to get tested after that, and luckily came back clean.  I actually sent the results to my subsequent dates.  The girl visiting me also got tested recently; my long term arrangement did not have results handy, but she told me that the last guy she was with was ayear ago, and she's clean.  She hooks up mostly with girls.  I've seen her a number of times and I trust her in that regard.  She also has extensive social media presence so it's not hard to verify her dating history.

would that convince you?

I'm only replying to you because you're spreading false info.

What's the use of nitpicking on definition?  They are not pro in the sense that they are discriminating, low volume, and generally long term.  They are pro in the sense that they want money.

You mean I might end up propagating my genes with young beautiful educated girls with good families?  Oh the horror.

Tinder sucks and is a gloryfied match.  

Don't worry, there will always be people like you to keep TER in business.  It seems like you've tried SA and get only interest from trailer trash.  That's not surprising since you seem like a very unpleasant individual.  The fact that you cannot understand how SA opens up a new and valuable market despite having it spelled out for you shows that I would waste time trying to help you understand.  But hopefully other hobbyists find this helpful.  

Well SA is full of trailer trash, trannys, or gay men and you are the one using it, not me. So it figures you belong with the fruit cake club. Its clear you sucked(more ways than one) at Ter so of course you need to make yourself feel better by going to a third rate site so you can make yourself feel that you are the better man. All you have proven is that you are an effeminate girly man.  

More like fat, hairy, or tranny is what you mean.

Yo Dude you see how much banter you created with your post -- I guess you wanted to bring attention to yourself and this last reply/ post will only continue to get remarks in a negative way!! Call it a day and just Shut the F--K Up!!!!

No idea what you're talking re: calculating or changing my tune.  On your post above, however, u seem to be a little confused about the term "discriminating".  I think "discriminating" is good; it's the difference between TER pros and (most) SA girls.  Pros are NOT discriminating, they take basically all comers.  SA girls are much more choosy, which I think is good for the eventual encounter itself.

apologies, didn't mean to interrupt on another conversation.

This is why you are full of shit.
You say the girls are from well of families then say they are on student loans. They can't be both idiot.
Just admit you are a poser.  Nothing you say makes any sense.

and I am certainly not calculating by the minute.  In my experience, the differences hours..   I spent 18hrs with my SB for what would normally coat 2-3 hours with a comparable escort.  Again, it's still P4P, but the rules and expectations are different on both sides...

Haha wow, you seem like an autistic spy from North Korea doing his best to understand American society.  Either that or someone stuck in his parent's basement playing WOW for the last 10 yrs.  

Lol so now I have the magical ability to impregnate trannies.  God was able to impregnate a virgin but even she was at least a woman!

The reviews of those reviews to figure out if his dick has crossed paths with me, I have little time to finish reading  this entire train wreck . Good luck . Scary shit . He was wrong however condom sales Are up and are projected to continue in that direction  .

how the hell does global condom sales, fueled by population growth in developing countries, have anything to do with condom usage among young americans in urban centers?  If you worked at my company you'd be fired for plain stupidity and incompetence.  

That married baby boomers ,our largest generation ever to be born in the US , are mostly married and way beyond their baby making years I think it actually speaks volumes . Clearly many of the developing countries are having issues with distribution and sales of condoms and plenty of people younger than you use them like.most of us in our generation are . Your deluded . You just like to get your dick wet  , what you do doesn't speak for the rest of us .

what you said was largely gibberish.  and you're unable to isolate relevant issues.  i'm not saying unprotected sex is good and everyone should do it.  I'm saying young people in the US are having unprotected sex at greater rates.  if anything that makes it more dangerous and is an argument FOR using condoms.  What I did was not safe and not smart.  

I'm smart enough to be able to read English competently, which is more than most of the posters in this thread, including you.  

The whole point of an SA date is that it is untimed.  There is no meter running.  It's the ultimate non-rushed experience.  In many cases, the woman actually WANTS to spend more time with me.  

Personally, I hope whatever works for you works for you.  It's your hobby..

Wow.  If the guy wants to have bareback sex what business is it of yours?  Your lying to yourself and everyone here if you say you never indulged in it.  Stop hating because he went a different route then you may like.   You say you won't see him because he has bareback sex.  Shirt you wouldn't see anyone on this board because we have all had bareback know sex one time or another.  My only exception is him alluding to the fact providers are somehow the spreaders of std.  That's a bit far fetched.  I too have had some great SA dates that worked out good and I'm in my late 40.  Not because I'm cheap it's because it's a different situation the p4p. Even though you still pay.

Exactly!