Hey, I thought I'd bring this little discussion into its own thread.  We've had a brief exchange below about dating providers and I wanted to open it up to the whole group.

I thinks it can be a very wierd scene, and I'd like to hear all sides. How can it ever work out? Do you as a hobbiest have to give up the hobby? And as a provider, would you ever trust a man you met at work?

Ok, I'm sure it an old topic to some, and I have 3-4 experiences to share, but lets see if this goes anywhere....

Thanks

Blur  




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MattG: Nikki @ KamaSutra

thanks i have a provider there I see on the side (kinda dte) but she is out of town...

Blur: You Date a KS Provider?

I've seen this topic come up before, and I'm always looking for a new perspective. What's that like for you? It was really bizarre for me...

Have you given up the hobby? If not, do you still go to KS and pick someone else? One of her friends?

If you have given up the hobby, does she believe you? Does KS miss you, think you are paying her on the side and missing their cut?

I'm sure there are more questions, let me know if you want to start a new "dating providers" thread...

seventhson:

Been there. Found it to be confusing. In one context you have sex like people normally do when you're into a relationship and on the othr hand you're trying to figure out if you want to have a relationship. So you keep running these scenarios like should we only have sex in a business way to keep the boundaries clear but do regular date stuff ? My most recent pro gf was really sweet but had a paranoid streak about a mile wide that I wasn't aware of when were were in the paid romance mode.

HarryO:

I have done it as well. At first it was not that difficult, but when we got closer I started to feel strange when we had sex...like was I just another client? Surprisingly, she was more jealous than me..I think because she met me the way she did, she thought I would be out doing the same thing with others. As strange as it may sound, I wasn't jealous of her, because I knew exactly what she was doing! Still its very strange..

Well it is just in the starting stage for me, the hard part is right now, is it for real or is it part of the game....

First I ask no qustions about her job, and I did let her know that I respect her...

Second I treat is like I would any other date, I have not offered any $$ gifts that could be thought of as a fee for sort...

So...about the sex...there is more of a kinda closer feeling....like holding hands...gentle meanful kisses...the kind you don't get at a service

a complicated subject that everybody (maybe half of everybody in the hobby) touches on or goes through. A large percentage of guys say they've fallen for a provider but then there's no follow through on that thought. If you have played for any length of time and if you've had an ATF or two you have to know the highs and lows or connection and disconnection. Its really weird to read feminist theorists who don't appear to have real world experience who insist that the women are only "masturbation objects" or "fucking machines" to the customers, because that is very far from the truth. However, it is equally weird to read men talking about their sublime romances with their hooker-lovers that are highly cash flow dependent. There seems to be this fine balancing act between reality and illusion that makes it work. When you want to be for real with a girl you get to deal with her financial issues, family dynamics (usually pretty offbeat), PMS, strange thought processes, etc.
 For example, my one time ATF became a close friend and we kinda moved past the sexual thing because she told me, nicely though, that I wasn't her type, and frankly, for raw sex other women did it better for me too, but oddly we have a lot in common in terms of our interests and perspectives, so the friendship lives on.
 She has this thing about buying tons of something. I told her she should buy some xyz and the next thing I know she tells me she bought a CASE of xyz... now why did you go and do that I asked her, couldn't you have discussed with me if this would be a good idea ? Well, she says, I get a better price this way. Are you nuts I think ? Good thing I didn't suggest you buy cement, she order a shipload to get a better price. I love her as a person, but no way Jose could I live with a compulsive hoarder... people, I tellya, they're stranger than fiction.

Were you a "regular" with this girl?

Do you still go over to the house as a customer?

and an old question from the early thread: How did you first ask her out?

blur

This is a complex issue but I think it does deserve some attention. I think in order for a provider/hobbyist dating scenario to work both people have to be fully aware of what the other is looking for, as well as have a rational view of the escort biz. I know a few providers who have tried to date their clients most of them have ended in disaster with the guy reminding the girl what she was when they met. On the other hand there are some girls who just want to be kept. Both sides need to know what their getting themselves before venturing into this territory.

i agree...its so easy to fall in love with a provider (or stripper) who gives you the type of attention you've never experienced before. GFE+

like going to the theatre, we easily "suspend our disbelief" for that hour...and if you read a lot of the reviews we are amazing lovers in that hour as well

but we know that they are working us from the second we walk in. the best providers are great sales people, selling a wonderful product, looking to get paid the best rate/tip etc.

to get someone with those Dale Carnegie skills to go out with you, means you need similar talents to sell yourself. in those few minutes you get to perform, you have to be interested in something personal about her, make a small connection, and give her a reason to trust you...you, a man who just paid for sex (implying all sorts of faults and failures to some) and hopefully you didn't ask for something so "off kilter" that she can't wait to tell the other girls on the couch.....

I was hoping you would join us on this one.

Its funny that you point to the man reminding HER where they met, as i was typing below about the perils/choices HE faces because of where they met and what it means about his character...

Blur

this is a hypothesis that slowly came into focus as I knew, dated, had friends backstage, so to speak. I think there's a huge amount of unspoken self judgement among girls in the business that they keep under wraps. They seem to have this profound fear that they can't possibly be accepted as a "real woman" because of what they do, in the same vein as writers on racial identity used to talk about minorities who internalized society's stereotypes. I've had my share of blowups not around becoming annoyed and using the job as a argument support for my side, but when I said, more or less, ok fine you do what you have to do, it isn't a problem for me, I accept you anyway... then there's this inevitable freakout on her part that I can't possibly accept her and she never should have let her guard down, and most worstest of all, I know too much about her, her real name, where she works her legit job, I could use that against her, yow yow yow.... look, I would never do that no matter how personally hurt I was, the only time I would consider such a move would be if she were in clear danger of injuring herself or something wildly extreme, but that's never come close to happening, sooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Each provider has a cocktail personality. It's a seduction personality that starts when you enter a providers space, she starts reading what "type" of client you are. It's like Method for actors. Some ladies have to work hard to create their cocktail personality, some don't try at all, and there are some whos real personality shines right through. That's part of the fantasy that must be created to suspend disbelief. I think a hobbyist should have an inkling of a girl's real personality or they will be sorely disappointed. I know guys who crossed that line only to be disappointed, and it took the joy out of hobbying for them.

Ahhhhhh you guys have put so many thoughts into my head...First I asked her to dinner as anyone would, she took my # and to my suprise she called me. We have a common background....No I do not see her ther nor do I go back to see others...it's so in the early stages and for know...We just have fun together...thats all thats counts

You created a real GFE...

So matt have you given up the hobby entirely? or just avoiding KS?

I'm probably more typical in that I have never given up the hobby. I travel too much, love to meet new people, try new places, and also never sleep.

So when "dating" a provider, I just go to Julie's while she works    

blur

Well...lets just say my eyes are always open...it's way to early to closed shut

Blur, i have had a few outside relationships with providers...Sometimes it really is just me keeping them but sometimes we actually go out.  I used to have a few girls from COrp. Treasures years ago who were from Iowa and stayed at my place when in town and we were actually together.  Another I had last year was from Body Heat and we would go out together all the time.  Usually the fire burns out quickly and it is back to the cat house.

I used to travel a lot but to one specific area. I found one such provider and I have to admit, I fell head-over-heals in love with her. Regarding issues of how we met, or bringing up the past during an argument - I'm extremely pragmatic and simply don't go there! The provider I met came from a terrible background (btw - she didn't necessarily return the feelings to the same extent that I had for her). She had both feet on the ground and claimed it would never work (why not just keep her as a mistress, etc). Also, my opinion of this profession is different from most! - I believe that this is the most important profession after teaching! Why we are so foolish about it in this society disheartens me. I realize that there are some losers here, but that exists in any field.
IMHO

That I just banged Nikki in her ASS, would you still take her out to dinner? When you kiss her do you think, holy shit this girl might have sucked 10 cocks today and I'm kissing her. Just some food for thought.

Had to join in.  I have met 2-3 providers in the past who I have seen more than once.  Not actively involved now.  What I have discovered is the more time you spend with them particularly the more they travel with you, the more involved you get in their personal lives.  If they are a really good provider they are going to make it seem like you are out on a date plus you are going to see all the warts you don't see in a one hour encounter.  The last one I was involved with, I would have seriously considered marrying if it had gotten to that point

So, I could see myself dating and even marrying a provider.  I suppose I could even deal with her continuing to work during the early parts of "courtship" but once you got really serious, then she would be like any other and I wouldn't want her dating let alone working.

I don't know what other people think.  It would be interesting to know both from people who favor one hour quickies vs. people who opt for longer dates.

Well it's not Nicki...and if you meet a girl anyplace else do you ask your self....

I hardley ever go for the one hour date, it's always been dinner, or overnight, travel...overall I think each case is different...you have to judge from the truth or the con....it's hard

ALL of my dates have been no less than 2hrs. It's a lot more fun for the both of us.

Now for some real honesty: I tried to travel with a provider and got stood up at the airport. I bought her ticket (NY to Miami)and rented a Jaguar (Miami) and went the whole nine yards.

However, being the optimist that I am, I took the $3,000 and spend it ALL on the "Hobby". I was doing incall for three days!! It was a good learning experience.

I will caution that overnighters can start create a special bond. For those of us with S.O.'s this can lead to nothing but trouble.

Hobby on!!

It funny that this has happened to me three time because compared to most guys in the hobby, I really don't see many lady's. But as fate would have it, two of the lady's I ended up dating (one I was damn near ready to marry), and now I have another current lady who we have crossed that line between provider / client.

The first lady sort of introduced me to the "hobby". It was a few years ago and I had a web development company on the side. She liked my work and hired me to do a site for her. Because of the way I work, we spent time together getting her input as to what she wanted. During that time together we got to know each other and eventually I asked her out. I never saw her as a client so I don't know if this counts. Anyway, she "schooled" me as to the "life". I probably know more about what really goes on in a escorts mind than most. At first I was really fighting trying to fall for her. I think the thing that would upset me was when times she would ask to postpone time we had set aside for each other due to an appointment. Once that started happening, I had to leave the situation because above all else she was a friend and I wanted us to remain that. Plus she had some obsessive clients and they were not too happy to know that she had a personal interest. Long story short, one of her obsessed clients had her set up when he realize that he was just that, a client. She was arrested but the charges were dropped. She later left the business after that. We remain friends and I was her "Maintenance Man" (read the book), until I met the next lady. But we are still friends today and talk at least 3 times a week.

The next lady I met a few months later. I met her as a client. She rocked my world like it had never been rocked before. So good that it damn near scared me. Put it this way, it scared me to the point that I knew I couldn't see her again as a client or else I truly would probably spend my last dime LOL. Anyway, I guess she must have felt a connection as well for we spent the next couple of days just calling each other up. One thing lead to another and we went out on a dinner date and movie. As fine as she looked and as much as I was attracted to her, I was a gentleman and really didn't make a move on her. She commented at the end of the date that it had been a long time since she was out with a guy and he didn't expect anything of her. She said it was refreshing but I thought it was sad. Anyway, she was contemplating leaving the business around the time we met. Even though she was one of the most popular lady's in my area, she was burnt out mentally. Based on my previous relationship, she was able to open up to me and I was able to do more than just listen because of my insight. Over the next few weeks she was spending almost all her time with me. She even accompanied me on a business trip to NY. One of the best trips I ever had. It was right after that when she sent me an e-mail to check TBD. I did and saw a post she had announcing her retirement. It was abrupt to say the least for she didn't have a job to fall back on, and contrary to popular belief, she like a lot of providers didn't have a large savings to fall back on. She did have a college degree and some marketable skills. I hooked her up with a job and life was great. We were together for about two years. If there was ever a person I would marry it was her, but her experience of being an escort as well as some bad relationships she had in her past, made her have really bad trust issues with men. Even though she told me I was the only man she felt she could truly be herself with and didn't have to act, I don't think she could fully trust herself to completely give herself to me. As strongly as I loved this woman, that was how bad emotionally that issue was eating us up. Her personal history is such that when things got tough, she would shut down and run. This was the case with us. Even though she said it was a decision she would probably regret, she chose to cut it off. The day after valentines day no less. OUCH! To this day I still haven't fully recovered.

Fast forward to today. Just like most guy, I contacted a lady because I wanted some physical comfort and companionship. Basically a GFE without the girl friend LOL. Based on my last relationship, the last thing I wanted or need was another one. So I called on the service of a well reviewed provider in my area. The session was great. So great that I called her about two days later and then two days after that. Talk about a lady getting to be addictive. To this day I don't know what it was but there is a mutual physical attraction between us. The next thing I know she is calling me up to service her at all hours of the day and night (but damn, I didn't get paid LOL). Talk about an ego stroke. From my stand point I'm thinking its just a physical thing. But I don't care who you are, if you spend time with someone, you will become interested as to who they are as a person. This is where we are at now. I don't want to push the issue but I think she is falling for me. Case in point, last week she had me over to her house and I met her family. Talk about coming into the inner circle. Like I said before, I don't think I'm ready for a relationship, and to be honest she hasn't even brought the subject up. I would still consider it just a physical thing if not for the family get together. Being that she is relatively new to the business, "about 1 year in" and is very highly thought of in her brief period in, I don't think she has any plans to leave the business soon. She has financial goals she is trying to meet. I will say she probably has the best head on her concerning managing her money and working the business. I ROFLMAO when I hear her talking to perspective clients, because she can put on a hell of an act is all I'll say.

I will say this, I know from experience it is damn tough to be with a lady who chooses this as a profession. It also takes a strong man mentally to deal with the fact that the lady he has feelings for provides intiamate service to other men. That plus worrying about her safety can drive you crazy. I will say the one that I truly fell for, I didn't really fall in love with her until after she retired. I don't think mentally I could allow myself to go there. I don't know what it is about me. I sound like one of those women in battered relationship who keep choosing the same type of men over and over again. The really funny thing is that I've only seen 6 providers, (really 5 because I was never a client of the first lady). The other 3 live in other states and that must be the reason why they didn't pussy whip me LOL. But then again, providers rarely let a guy get that close to them so I must be doing something right. Ultimately it can be bad for a lady's business from an emotional stand point to let that happen. Plus a lot of clients, the really obsessive ones, can not handle the fact that their ATF has a "real" relationship. I could write a book about some of the run-ins I've had but they were rather brief because I'm 6'6" with 7% body fat. Lets just say I wasn't the runt of the litter, so most guys will at least think twice about running up on me. But most guys will try other ways to get me out of the picture such as stepping up the frequency and expense of the unexpected gifts. When I mentioned that a guy could be bad for a lady's business is another situation where she is not available whenever clients were use to seeing her because now she has other commitment. This is also the case when the lady stops offering certain services such as overnight visits, or exclusive travel dates or touring in general.

-- Modified on 5/2/2003 7:34:58 PM

Fascinating post! - At the very least go with the flow!. You're going down this path for some reason! - Since you have a good head on your shoulders I doubt that you'l lose it altogether.
For me only, I've found some truly fascinating providers but at my age it's now only wishful thinking. Good luck.

Thank you for that very detailed account of your life as a hobbyist/lover. I agree you have a book to write, and hope it has a happy ending.  

I have not heard a story yet where any couple has lasted very long, your 2 years seems like the record so far. But then again would that lucky pair be reading the TER NYC discussion board? ok, He may be lurking around

I'm beginning to think that when it come to capturing a provider's heart, we may all be fools...

blur








My last three "non-provider" relationships were with women 15, 10, and 19 years younger than me,

No, but I should!(EOM)

Road Warrior..

Your experience is very similar to mine.  Met a provider..great sex...after a month or two of dating she quit..was difficult for her, being used to making so much $$$, but she struggled, bartending, waitressing etc.  Finally began to work again..at first I was ok with it..then I found one of the only ways I could deal with it, strange as it sounds, is by having sex with others as well..I felt less 'humiliated' I think, knowing that if she was having sex with others (even though she was getting paid) I was too..probably not the healthiest way to cope, but I did..we talked a lot..another thing that was nice is she began bringing girls home for special occasions...that was a nice fringe benefit!  However, Ultimately I could no longer handle it...seeing what it did to her...realizing the woman I loved was working and selling her body was just too painful..like you said though, I learned a lot!  Some of the stories!  The way she learned to turn off/on was pretty amazing, though pretty sad..the way she talked about some of the older, fat clients she was forced to 'service'  the way she felt degraded, I could no longer deal with it.

The hard part I think would be giving up the money, I mean to go from a high somewhat tax free income to the private sector...on the other hand some of the girls I know get burned out so fast and lets face it...you can not be 20 forever

I'll tell you one thing, the age thing doesn't matter to us guys. There are many providers in my area that are in their 40's. One lady in particular will get nothing less than a 8 in service rating and has about 10 pages worth, meaning that guys are going to see her in spite of her age.

The sad part is that a lady will choose this as a profession at that age because there are no other options. I'll be perfectly honest, even though many lady's may like this work, it is not a career choice for many. I will say the lady's who I've been involved with have always looked at this business as a stepping stone to something else. From a mental stand point, it can be draining. Case in point, the current lady I'm with made a comment about most of the guys she sees, she would not have any interest in if the money wasn't on the table. Honestly, I couldn't do that for a long period of time and I think that is what cases some ladies to become very jaded to a lot of aspects of life.

There is a fine line between "making the money" and "it being worth it to make the money".