New England

Dr. Stinglove, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying...
AnnONymous 1682 reads
posted
1 / 20

Early last year I tried to see "Ellie", a regional provider who had two positive reviews on TER.  Things fell through and I didn't get to see her.  Imagine my surprise when I opened up an email today that contained the following information (TER will not allow me to repost the email even with all personal information redacted):
 
1. The name and home address of Ellie's parents
The email was addressed to them.
 
2. A message identifying me by my real name and claiming that I was yet another of the innumerable tricks that their daughter turned while working as a prostitute.  My personal contact information was included, in a forwarded email allegedly sent to her boyfriend/pimp in case I either assaulted her or turned out to be a police officer working undercover.  The author went on to claim that I had sex with Ellie for an hour and a half at a specific hotel in a specific city on a specific date.

3. The return address was from someone using Ellie's real name(?), which I suspect is a decoy.  The email was cc'd to about a dozen people that I don't know.

OK, so now I am mildly freaked out.  I realize that this is an attempt to intimidate and embarrass me and that there is nothing that this person can do to me from a legal standpoint.  However, it bothers me that they have my actual name and details of this alleged tryst (which never took place) and could out me to people that I do know.  I suppose the only thing I can do about this particular event is to ignore it, move on, and hope it blows over.  Although I am tempted to respond and set the record straight, a vigilante like this cannot be reasoned with.

What worries me most is that my information was obtained from an email intercepted from a TER-reviewed girl.  I see TER-reviewed girls almost exclusively because I need discretion.  So, I am worried that this may happen again with other TER-reviewed girls.

On a related note, I recently learned on this TER discussion board about ExposingJohns.com, a website to out johns and extort hundreds of dollars from them to have their names removed.  Man, this vigilantism is REALLY sucking the fun out of the hobby.  
 
Who is behind all this vigilantism?!?  And how can we protect ourselves?!?  As you can see, sticking to TER-reviewed girls did not work out in this case.  Please don't suggest P411 or other verification services, I tried P411 for a year and so few girls accepted it that my options were really limited.

inicky46 61 Reviews 780 reads
posted
2 / 20

And I'm sorry you've been subjected to this.  I also totally understand why you're posting under an alias.  It's a great example of why aliases are a legitimately good thing to have here.
That said, I'd do nothing.  I certainly would not respond to "set the record straight" because whoever sent you this email doesn't care.
I would also change all my hobby-related email addresses, phone, etc.
As for P411 I'm surprised at what you say.  P411 was key for me in getting started a few years ago and has always been a good way for me to find and set up appointments.
Good luck to you.

DT_lover 188 Reviews 689 reads
posted
3 / 20

Strange that you are not being asked for money...yet.  You don't need to do anything really.

This is a rare situation.  I would not change anything you are doing.  Maybe look for girls with more than 2 reviews.  

I don't know why you did not see the benefits of P411.  It is really good and does a good job of screening out scammers/troublemakers from both sides...girls and hobbyist.

Why not create a new e-mail address and forward the e-mail to the parents  (with your info removed) and suggest they take it to police to go after the pimp.  I'm sure the email was sent out to many and the perpetrator won't know who did this.

-- Modified on 1/2/2014 6:10:49 PM

pogostickjump 734 reads
posted
4 / 20

If the bad guys can get into TJMax, Target, Bank of America, RSA, and more, what makes you think P411 is safe?  
From what you posted, it sounds like a bad guy got into her email account. It would also appear that "Ellie" either used her real name when she created the email account OR the bad guy knew her personally. It would be difficult know her real ID unless she left a trail- ie; used her hobby account for real-world things like a web purchase at Amazon or some other store. Or maybe she sent messages to her real email from the hobby email etc.
 
I know for a fact that there are BP ads specifically posted as honey-pots for the purpose of outing Johns.
There are black-hat sites with email usernames and passwords that can be purchased in bulk.
There are lists of known provider email addresses and phone numbers.
There are individuals and groups that make money on all kinds of extortion schemes.
There are individuals and groups that specifically target this "hobby."  
So, this could be a careless provider that used a weak password or has a Trojan running on her PC that allowed a random bad guy to gain access to her email account with your information included. or  This could be a jealous boyfriend/girlfriend/pimp that was able to guess her password or already had access. or This could be the work of an individual that is, in general, targeting providers and Johns.
You may trust the person but you can't always trust in that persons tech ability.  
Rotate your passwords and use strong passwords to start with.
Use the tor browser  
use a hobby phone
avoid using your hobby email address for anything else ever!
don't save old messages in you email account
set you browser to delete history, cookies, and passwords on exit
encrypt your data especially on a laptopTrust no one

DT_lover 188 Reviews 536 reads
posted
5 / 20
pogostickjump 525 reads
posted
6 / 20

https://www.torproject.org/

from what I have read, this was developed by the US CIA and or Naval intel for users in other countries so they could surf the web with anonymity. It is so good that the NSA is having trouble tracking people that use it.

-- Modified on 1/2/2014 9:19:59 PM

AnnONymous 540 reads
posted
7 / 20

Thanks for the excellent advice.  Based on the interval between my contact with Ellie and the email, I don't think this was a honeypot scheme unless the perpetrator waited a very long time to collect as many victims as possible.  If I had to guess, it may have been a jealous boyfriend who resented her activities and wanted to cause problems.  I will note that of Ellie's two reviews, the first was from someone whose only review was her ("red flag"), but that the second was from someone with many pages of reviews, including girls that I have seen.  So, unless this latter reviewer is a long-term mole in the TER reviewer system (which could be), I believe that Ellie was a real provider and not a honeypot.

As for P411, I agree that our information is no more safe there than in any database, and in fact, P411 must be a high value target for vigilantes.  Again, only about half the girls I was interested in seeing accepted P411.  Also, I think that P411 is a little pricey for what you get (I suppose it is all relative, you are paying for piece of mind...but without concrete information about system security, this may be a convenient fable).  I also noticed that some girls who advertise on P411 have higher prices listed there than their ads in other venues (i.e., same girl, higher price).  I suppose they figure that P411 subscribers have more disposable income.  Please note that not everyone does this, and some girls do offer discounts to P411 members, which I suppose offsets the higher list price.

I am surprised that only hobbyists have responded to this thread, and that no providers have said anything.  It seems important to know how our personal information is used/stored/protected.  After all, we provide much personal information to see providers that go by aliases and guard their own privacy (rightfully so!).  Anyone?
Posted By: pogostickjump
If the bad guys can get into TJMax, Target, Bank of America, RSA, and more, what makes you think P411 is safe?  
 From what you posted, it sounds like a bad guy got into her email account. It would also appear that "Ellie" either used her real name when she created the email account OR the bad guy knew her personally. It would be difficult know her real ID unless she left a trail- ie; used her hobby account for real-world things like a web purchase at Amazon or some other store. Or maybe she sent messages to her real email from the hobby email etc.  
   
 I know for a fact that there are BP ads specifically posted as honey-pots for the purpose of outing Johns.  
 There are black-hat sites with email usernames and passwords that can be purchased in bulk.  
 There are lists of known provider email addresses and phone numbers.  
 There are individuals and groups that make money on all kinds of extortion schemes.  
 There are individuals and groups that specifically target this "hobby."  
 So, this could be a careless provider that used a weak password or has a Trojan running on her PC that allowed a random bad guy to gain access to her email account with your information included. or  This could be a jealous boyfriend/girlfriend/pimp that was able to guess her password or already had access. or This could be the work of an individual that is, in general, targeting providers and Johns.  
 You may trust the person but you can't always trust in that persons tech ability.  
 Rotate your passwords and use strong passwords to start with.  
 Use the tor browser  
 use a hobby phone  
 avoid using your hobby email address for anything else ever!  
 don't save old messages in you email account  
 set you browser to delete history, cookies, and passwords on exit  
 encrypt your data especially on a laptopTrust no one

pogostickjump 447 reads
posted
8 / 20

There are no sure-things in the hobby. All you can do is try to mitigate risk.
It's not all that uncommon for a pimp or the provider to write a first review. It's "seeding" the field. I've noticed a few different girls with ads that all have a similar style that all have 1 or two reviewers in common. Those are either a devoted agency client or a pimp.  
If the 2nd well known reviewer had a similar experience to you with the girls that you have in common, he is probably legit. If his review was deliberately vague, he may be a shill

Dave76015 38 Reviews 485 reads
posted
9 / 20

I really feel for you getting caught up in this.  As stated in the replies above, nobody is really cyber-immune from this kind of thing.  It's amazing the list of groups that could exploit this: religious fundamentalists, LE, pimps, jealous ex's, Eastern European organized crime, script kiddies, black hatters, etc.  

About the best message is to try and insulate this side of your life from everything else and never let the streams cross.  Really bad things can happen when the streams cross!

powderpuff 533 reads
posted
10 / 20

In my opinion, if you reply to that email you would be giving the perpetrator another piece of evidence linking your real name, address, email account etc to the hobby and to this girl.
Try to stay cool. Don't give them anything new to work with!

Save any of your original and the current correspondence phone numbers emails with FULL HEADERS (if you don't know what full headers means, google "email headers") dates times of any calls/texts. If it comes to point where you need to defend yourself you may need that stuff to attempt to back-trace where you were or where the emails originated.

Change your passwords on any account you use related to this. It might be a good idea to create a new hobby identity/email and get a different hobby phone if you have one. Don't close the email account, the perp might send something new and they might screw up and give you something to work with to find them.
Start thinking about what happens if your info appears on one of the blacklists or one of those "John" sites.  You might also want to have your TER handle changed to something else so it won't appear in searches later if your handle gets leaked along with your real name

AnnONymous 518 reads
posted
11 / 20

No worries, I wouldn't bother with a response.  The thing is, as far as I know this person may only have an email containing my name and email address, possibly my phone number.  None of these are state secrets, so basically anyone could accuse anyone of being a john with only a little bit of widely available information.  The author also claims that I had sex with Ellie, when in fact no meeting ever took place, exposing the fact that they know very little about me and what did or did not transpire.  Ultimately, their "evidence" seems unreliable, wholly circumstantial, and utterly deniable...not that I want to have anything to deny.  Obviously they know this and either hope to embarrass their victims or to bluster their way to some sort of profit.  I will not cooperate with them nor respond to them, as these actions would only encourage and assist them in their vigilantism.  As far as I know, I received a bogus piece of phishing spam that I promptly ignored, right?  Hey, for all I know, they are reading this right now.

41Anon 575 reads
posted
12 / 20

I just saw this post.. I got the same email.  I did see her however.  I'm ignoring it as there has not been any follow up.  Her TER reviews, website and eros ad are all down.  This looks to me that she was outed to her parents and this is a shot across our bows to stay away.

Sensual Missy See my TER Reviews 525 reads
posted
13 / 20

This had happened to me long time ago.  I got an email from a client's wife, which had threatened me that she would go to the police, etc.  She had all my information.  All I did was, I did not reply at all and move on.  I did changed email address then.  Best thing to do is ignore it.  Act like you don't know anything about it and say something like someone stole your email address to create a scam.  That is what people do everyday.  What proves do they have?  There are no pictures of you and her together anyway, so let it go.   Change your hobbyist name or Handle and let other providers that you know, had to change it.  I am a provider and I have been around over 15 years on and off, so don't sweat it hon.  By  the way, you would not be here on TER, you would be some place else that is not a home sweet home by now.  Just be careful of not to give too many information, make it as simple as you can.  P411 is not a bad site to use either, whatever it is there, that is all the information you need, except if you are a newbie, might just need to see your ID to make sure you are who you are.  If you have any questions I will be glad to answer it for you.  Start off the New Year 2014 right, have a positive attitude!

Missy

P.S.  Providers and Clients have the rights of their privacy of their emails, never ever cc.  That was unprofessional on her part.  Whether she did it or not or did it to be spiteful, still unprofessional!!

Lckherlot 6 Reviews 621 reads
posted
14 / 20

Thanks for sharing your story Im sorry you had to gp through that. Thats one of my worries I know providers want info on there clients but what happens to that info when you leave Im not cofortable with provideres that want full name place of work and work phone number. I understand it from the providers point of view I get nervouse with some of the characters that show up when your selling something on craigs list let alone meeting some one for a more intimate exchange.

NoLoveForIntegrity 476 reads
posted
15 / 20

The only girls that don't accept p411 or the like, are girls that you might want to consider not seeing. I mean, those sites are free for girls to use. What reputable girl wouldn't use them. Otherwise, you might want to consider trolling the avenue. No need for screening there!
Or let your assumptions get you loured with a bullshit story, maybe you'll get lucky.

Aken03 381 reads
posted
16 / 20

Lckherlot, first of all, you ARE a provider!  You are always trying to talk shit about other SUCCESSFUL providers while you let men into your rental house ALL day and night with a simple phone call.  Good luck with that!   Why would you come here with comments that make CAREFUL providers look like they are doing something stupid by asking for verification?!  The fact that you come here under this name after already being called out on the other site shows YOUR level of stupidity!  People are not stupid...hang it up.   The bad typing, spelling & grammar are not the most clever way to try and disguise yourself!  LMAO

Posted By: Lckherlot
Thanks for sharing your story Im sorry you had to gp through that. Thats one of my worries I know providers want info on there clients but what happens to that info when you leave Im not cofortable with provideres that want full name place of work and work phone number. I understand it from the providers point of view I get nervouse with some of the characters that show up when your selling something on craigs list let alone meeting some one for a more intimate exchange.

ginainthemorning See my TER Reviews 1236 reads
posted
17 / 20

P411 got 22 ladies arrested in Denver ladies year, and NR got 12 women busted in Phoenix a few months back.  I find that DC is much more discreet.  Many of these problems arise because people seem to think its OK to engage in explicit talk by phone, + email and we know that there is no electronic device that is private.  Another factor when looking a a providers reviews is what do you really know about her, does she have a pimp or boyfriend lurking around, that may have access to her computer and phone.  These exposing John sites are popping up all over, I saw one that listed guys for just calling a ad, so it seem they post fake ads and write down all the numbers that even call to inquire. There is nothing illegal about seeing a escort, for her time and companionship, and why I understand why we need reviews, they have been used to prosecutor many people. Lets face it anyone can be reading our posts and reviews and out in Phoenix, they have men from Bethany church working with the cops with their PROJECT ROSE STINGS, and these church men can verify to see a escort and get her arrested.  If they can hack Target what makes you think they haven't already hacked in here and have everyones credit card info, along with their handles etc.  It sure would be a lot safer if TER allowed non explicit reviews.

Lckherlot 6 Reviews 479 reads
posted
18 / 20

First of all I am not a provider the idiot  on the other site thinks I am but I am not. If you took the time to read any of my post on this site or the other site you would see that.

Also I never said that providers that ask for verification are stupid I said that I understand it from the providers point of view and that I feel that way when I put an ad on craigslist to sell something.

So please calm down its hard to believe that anyone who actual read my post would be upset

Aken03 410 reads
posted
19 / 20

Reading your posts MAY indicate you are male but only to those who are not aware of your history with this user name (and others)  You pose as a man quite often.  I know business is failing(the amount of time you spend on sex boards and tweaking your BP ads and those riduculous pics would prove you have too much time on your hands)  but coming here hoping to 1)get info about yourself to find out WHY business is so slow, and 2)Make false statements about other providers in an effort to degrade the competition.   You create user names, make a few random & pointless posts in an effort to build some kind of credibility then start with the all the deception.  You are too well know to get away with this anymore.  Maybe it's time for you to get a real job since this has proven to be an epic fail for you.  

Posted By: Lckherlot
First of all I am not a provider the idiot  on the other site thinks I am but I am not. If you took the time to read any of my post on this site or the other site you would see that.  
   
 Also I never said that providers that ask for verification are stupid I said that I understand it from the providers point of view and that I feel that way when I put an ad on craigslist to sell something.  
   
 So please calm down its hard to believe that anyone who actual read my post would be upset

Aken03 489 reads
posted
20 / 20

There happens to be SEVERAL "idiots" on the other site that knows exactly who you are.  I have met you and I know you are not right in the head and over a years worth of talk about you with varios people, it's become common knowledge that you play these games.  Who's the idiot??

Posted By: Lckherlot
First of all I am not a provider the idiot  on the other site thinks I am but I am not. If you took the time to read any of my post on this site or the other site you would see that.  
   
 Also I never said that providers that ask for verification are stupid I said that I understand it from the providers point of view and that I feel that way when I put an ad on craigslist to sell something.  
   
 So please calm down its hard to believe that anyone who actual read my post would be upset

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