I could also get hit by a bus as I leave the drugstore with my dental dams and condoms.
Good info though.
Thanks
I am very happy to see an informed and cogent discussion of this topic on this Board.
Qualifications (or lack of same): Two doctorates, one of which is a medical degree. Not an expert on human sexually transmitted diseases. Used to teach histology (structure of the tissues of the body) to medical and other health-care students.
Both internally and externally there are cellular barriers between the surface (outside world, which includes what is in the digestive tract) and the bloodstream, but routinely there are breaks in those barriers that our body is capable of readily repairing, and immunological defense mechanisms to cope with the momentary breaches. However, there are certain agents that, once there is access, can’t be eradicated by our defenses (see for example, the viruses referred to above). The risk of acquiring a virus into the blood stream is a function of the amount of virus and access to an open blood stream portal. Keep in mind that it only takes one virus particle (HIV or hepatitis viruses for example) to make it to a site where it can survive and proliferate to do irreparable harm to you and your hobby associates or loved one(s).
My perspective receiver (oral): Virtually every adult would have some gingivitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingivitis), which could be a portal to the blood stream. If you brush your teeth (preferably a soft bristled brush) and floss (both of which we all should do daily at least) and see red in what you spit out (assumes not having recently eaten something of that color or have red in the toothpaste), you have capillaries leaking blood into the mouth and likely have inflamed oral tissue somewhere. Even if no red is seen, you likely have some red blood cells in your spittle after brushing, flossing and even eating foods which can damage the oral mucosa (e.g., piece of bone from a pork chop, sharp cartilaginous rib of a fish or hard material in popcorn). We pretty consistently experience some amount of oral abrasion that results in breaches of the protective lining of the mucosa. (I consider gingivitis to be a chronic localized abrasion.) So, to me it doesn’t matter that the stomach produces acid that can kill some viruses. We can be defenseless before that point.
My perspective giver (male): I assume we all recognize that most enjoyable acts involve some kind and level of abrasion of the male organ. The penis is pretty well designed to cope with that, and there is a layer of epithelial cells that is a barrier, but they can and are abraded. I bet most guys have occasionally experienced a sore red area after masturbation, especially if they have used inappropriate things for lubrication (DON’T use shampoo!). As you can probably also appreciate, the epithelium is not as thick on the penis as some other places on the body ((interesting side notes - scrotal skin (epidermis and dermis) is the thinnest, and the density of sensory nerves is not most dense at the head of the penis but on the surface of the cornea)). Damage to the protective barrier can and probably almost always does occur during sexual activity (premature ejaculators may have an evolutionary advantage here!), but we generally don’t notice it (however, who hasn’t been scraped by teeth?), and our bodies quickly repair it. However, all it takes is one virus particle to get access to your bloodstream and proliferate to do you in. So, if you have a breach, and she/he has virus in the mouth, vaginal secretions, tears (she/he is crying from the joy at having your amazing organ orally?) which hits that breached spot, gets access and reaches the promised land, you’re doomed. Yes, a number of things have to be right for the virus, but the more chances taken, the greater the chance of the planets being aligned for the virus.
If one applies alcohol (what concentration? diluted bleach would be better, but how many would sign up for that, and what would mister happy look like after doing that 100 times?? and, you need to allow time for recovery from alcohol or bleach treatment as both can damage the surface barrier) post-coitally, I would expect to hear an ouch! a number of times (due to surface breaches allowing access to sensitive nerve endings). Yes, it might work, but also might cause additional damage to a site that was borderline, that would allow viral access. (Reminds me of attending a party out in a field as a teenager (late 60's, rural america) where a couple was DRINKING Listerine. What's up with that I asked? Well, they had hot lovin relations and were sure they were warding off a potential venereal disease.)
Professional Expert Opinion: If you donated blood prior to engaging professional services, you know that there are questions about engaging in sexual activity with professional providers. If you have done so, they don’t want your blood. They don’t care if you only did it once or used protection. Professionals responsible for keeping the blood supply safe deem the risk too high.
My Personal Perspective: I’m in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and would love to experience the talents of some (no, ALL, though I do have a priority list memorized) of the legendary performers bareback, but won’t unless I get a terminal diagnosis which doesn’t impair my ability to appreciate the act. In that case it won’t matter to my life (though I would have to stop having unprotected sex with those I care about), though I would also be truthful and say to the potential provider (first recipient gets a free pass) that my organ has been ministered to by some of the most skilled in the art, so they can make their own assessment of the risk I might present to them.
So, for me, it is too much like Russian roulette and I haven’t done it. I would like to, but don’t want to take the chance due to the risks as I see them, for me and particularly those I care about who are kind enough to share their intimate selves with me. As has been well stated above, these are personal risk assessments and choices. Hopefully they will be informed ones.
(While writing this I was struck by the realization that I was listening to music composed by a genius, Beethoven, who lost his hearing and later his life, to a sexually transmitted disease.)
Safe sex and a long life and much love, where our needs get met without harm to others,
I could also get hit by a bus as I leave the drugstore with my dental dams and condoms.
Good info though.
Thanks
Qualifications (or lack of same): Two doctorates, one of which is a medical degree. Not an expert on human sexually transmitted diseases. Used to teach histology (structure of the tissues of the body) to medical and other health-care students.
Both internally and externally there are cellular barriers between the surface (outside world, which includes what is in the digestive tract) and the bloodstream, but routinely there are breaks in those barriers that our body is capable of readily repairing, and immunological defense mechanisms to cope with the momentary breaches. However, there are certain agents that, once there is access, can’t be eradicated by our defenses (see for example, the viruses referred to above). The risk of acquiring a virus into the blood stream is a function of the amount of virus and access to an open blood stream portal. Keep in mind that it only takes one virus particle (HIV or hepatitis viruses for example) to make it to a site where it can survive and proliferate to do irreparable harm to you and your hobby associates or loved one(s).
My perspective receiver (oral): Virtually every adult would have some gingivitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingivitis), which could be a portal to the blood stream. If you brush your teeth (preferably a soft bristled brush) and floss (both of which we all should do daily at least) and see red in what you spit out (assumes not having recently eaten something of that color or have red in the toothpaste), you have capillaries leaking blood into the mouth and likely have inflamed oral tissue somewhere. Even if no red is seen, you likely have some red blood cells in your spittle after brushing, flossing and even eating foods which can damage the oral mucosa (e.g., piece of bone from a pork chop, sharp cartilaginous rib of a fish or hard material in popcorn). We pretty consistently experience some amount of oral abrasion that results in breaches of the protective lining of the mucosa. (I consider gingivitis to be a chronic localized abrasion.) So, to me it doesn’t matter that the stomach produces acid that can kill some viruses. We can be defenseless before that point.
My perspective giver (male): I assume we all recognize that most enjoyable acts involve some kind and level of abrasion of the male organ. The penis is pretty well designed to cope with that, and there is a layer of epithelial cells that is a barrier, but they can and are abraded. I bet most guys have occasionally experienced a sore red area after masturbation, especially if they have used inappropriate things for lubrication (DON’T use shampoo!). As you can probably also appreciate, the epithelium is not as thick on the penis as some other places on the body ((interesting side notes - scrotal skin (epidermis and dermis) is the thinnest, and the density of sensory nerves is not most dense at the head of the penis but on the surface of the cornea)). Damage to the protective barrier can and probably almost always does occur during sexual activity (premature ejaculators may have an evolutionary advantage here!), but we generally don’t notice it (however, who hasn’t been scraped by teeth?), and our bodies quickly repair it. However, all it takes is one virus particle to get access to your bloodstream and proliferate to do you in. So, if you have a breach, and she/he has virus in the mouth, vaginal secretions, tears (she/he is crying from the joy at having your amazing organ orally?) which hits that breached spot, gets access and reaches the promised land, you’re doomed. Yes, a number of things have to be right for the virus, but the more chances taken, the greater the chance of the planets being aligned for the virus.
If one applies alcohol (what concentration? diluted bleach would be better, but how many would sign up for that, and what would mister happy look like after doing that 100 times?? and, you need to allow time for recovery from alcohol or bleach treatment as both can damage the surface barrier) post-coitally, I would expect to hear an ouch! a number of times (due to surface breaches allowing access to sensitive nerve endings). Yes, it might work, but also might cause additional damage to a site that was borderline, that would allow viral access. (Reminds me of attending a party out in a field as a teenager (late 60's, rural america) where a couple was DRINKING Listerine. What's up with that I asked? Well, they had hot lovin relations and were sure they were warding off a potential venereal disease.)
Professional Expert Opinion: If you donated blood prior to engaging professional services, you know that there are questions about engaging in sexual activity with professional providers. If you have done so, they don’t want your blood. They don’t care if you only did it once or used protection. Professionals responsible for keeping the blood supply safe deem the risk too high.
My Personal Perspective: I’m in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and would love to experience the talents of some (no, ALL, though I do have a priority list memorized) of the legendary performers bareback, but won’t unless I get a terminal diagnosis which doesn’t impair my ability to appreciate the act. In that case it won’t matter to my life (though I would have to stop having unprotected sex with those I care about), though I would also be truthful and say to the potential provider (first recipient gets a free pass) that my organ has been ministered to by some of the most skilled in the art, so they can make their own assessment of the risk I might present to them.
So, for me, it is too much like Russian roulette and I haven’t done it. I would like to, but don’t want to take the chance due to the risks as I see them, for me and particularly those I care about who are kind enough to share their intimate selves with me. As has been well stated above, these are personal risk assessments and choices. Hopefully they will be informed ones.
(While writing this I was struck by the realization that I was listening to music composed by a genius, Beethoven, who lost his hearing and later his life, to a sexually transmitted disease.)
Safe sex and a long life and much love, where our needs get met without harm to others,
All I have ever read is that there is a possibility, that it is a lower possibility than other forms of sex and that possibility goes up with abrasions and open sores. This is all generic and obvious information and is sometime skewed by the political agenda or opinions of the writer.
I want to see a real unbiased study where they inject something safe that could be tracked into the blood steam of one person of a couple and let them have sex or oral and see if whatever they injected appears in the blood stream of the other person so they can come up with some percentages an real data. Has anyone seen or heard of a study that shows a quantifiable risk percentage?
My co-worker caught HIV from a provider via BBBJ DATY enough proof?
I want to see a real unbiased study where they inject something safe that could be tracked into the blood steam of one person of a couple and let them have sex or oral and see if whatever they injected appears in the blood stream of the other person so they can come up with some percentages an real data. Has anyone seen or heard of a study that shows a quantifiable risk percentage?
Not really, no.
I want to see a real unbiased study where they inject something safe that could be tracked into the blood steam of one person of a couple and let them have sex or oral and see if whatever they injected appears in the blood stream of the other person so they can come up with some percentages an real data. Has anyone seen or heard of a study that shows a quantifiable risk percentage?
Your co-worker SAID that's where he caught it. But he has no way to be certain of that....and you have no way to verify his honesty. So NO.....that's actually NO proof.
....grow and cook your own food and avoid interacting with the public in any way.
Reminds me of the old joke:
If you give up women, booze and tobacco, you may not live to be 100, but it will sure seem like it.
Party on Wayne!
"It might happen. Cha! And monkeys might fly out of my butt!"
Party on Garth
But live your life as you see fit. Most of us know the risks, and if we don’t then we should be doing some research before we entered the hobby, or at least paid attention in middle school instead of laughing at the word “penis.” Most of the providers here have made their own choice to do covered or uncovered BJ, and you are not the first to post something “scary” about the risks that we take. I respect their decisions and never would ask for more, but know I can always ask for less.
It almost seems depressing that you regret your choice. You make such an informative post then you fill it with regret. It is your life to enjoy, but you are right that many of us have loved ones that could be affected by our choices in the hobby. If you truly love those people and want them to be safe, then be safe. Come to terms with your limitations and enjoy what is in front of you.
SIDE NOTE:
NEVER USE WIKIPEDIA AS A SOURCE
Everyone is aware that condoms are 98% effective in preventing pregnancy, but long-term studies involving couples where one partner is HIV-positive and the other is not showed that these couples have found that consistent condom use reduces the risk of HIV transmission by between 80 and 94%.
Math suggest that 8-9 covered BJs = 1 BBBJ in risk
I am in the healthcare field and still love DATY and BBBJ. I have 85 reviews. Never ever had a problem in seven years of hobbying. May die tomorrow! But it won't be from sex......There is inherit risk from any unprotected sexual act; it's the risk any provider or hobbyist takes when they choose to have sex with anyone.
If you are really worried about the possibility of these things, buy a good porno movie, stay home and jerk off.
Not as fun, but much safer, it will save you lots of cash, and it's legal.
This is even more true when one is a hobbyist or provider. Live your life as you see fit but I think you are fear mongering.
Also, I also have to point out this is an unusual first post, at least under this handle. Couldn't find any record of this handle on the boards in Texas or over a dozen of the larger TER discussion boards.