Although I have never had a sensual experience with Elan, we do meet and talk occasionally.
Elan is a woman interested in creating pleasure, both in the hobby and in her personal life.
She would only pull back if she felt there was a need to do so. Perhaps the Torkelson
character has become attached to Elan and she is not willing or able to reciprocate.
Unreciprocated feelings hurt the heart and would cause one to lash out. That is natural
as we are human beings with complex (or not so complex) needs, desires, interests, and
feelings. I would urge Torkelson to evaluate his feelings before continuing in the hobby.
No matter which provider he sees, he has to be able to keep separate the deepest levels
of emotional attachment. This is not meant to be "Love Connection". The feelings should
stop at casual friendship.
I know many people are thinking a lot of interaction has moved to other social media and I can only state my opinion, but While I love my twitter I feel it's there as a sort of photo album of thoughts: likes and dislikes and extra info. about myself that I personally chose to share with whoever decides to follow me.
I don't do a lot of back & forth chat on twitter - I only check in on it once or twice a day sometimes.
Plus I prefer to get to know a guy thru a website forum like this, where I can see some other topics they've shared, & I know a little about who he has seen & how he writes..... Direct messaging me as a stranger never really inspires me to chat it up...
Those are my thoughts about twitter, I don't participate in any other social media.
I enjoy TER and very much appreciate the love & support that can be found on the providers only board, not to mention all the fun topics and advice given, even just venting now & then from some gals....the provider only board is from gals all over the united states and while that is nice - sometimes I really just wish we had more community (board community) here in MN.
Meaning I wish more providers would chat on the local board more often and not just at random times certain slow months.
I really wish women felt safe enough to truly share more about themselves even if it's just small talk and comments about the topic at hand.
I think providers starting topics could be very interesting too.
My question is -ladies when you're busy is it too much to chat & make a point to check back on what you've commented on?
Or are there too many trolls and flaming going on so you truly feel you can't speak your mind?
Or do you just feel like there's nothing to say?
I think it would be so much fun to start fresh with added providers commenting a few times a week and having some light happy convo's or even some hot debates, IMHO communication is so sexXY!!
Oh yeah and there's nothing wrong with agreeing 2 disagree, sometimes that happens too. 
Mindy
I know people get tired of hearing this, but the the board was a friendlier place a few years ago. Not so much now.
I love the way you write and your ability to think. Also , you are pretty darn good looking as well.
I know people get tired of hearing this, but the the board was a friendlier place a few years ago. Not so much now.
I love the way you write and your ability to think. Also , you are pretty darn good looking as well.
you seek to open a dialogue where it's needed
may you have he fortitude
i don't mean it as a nay say'er;
you may have an uphill battl
The only uphill battle is the one placed by us. We need to be more open minded here. That's the real problem is closed minded people on here.
If we post too much we are threADing
If we don't post enough we are shy
If we post our own opinion we are met with opposition
If we don't post often enough we are asked "why?"
I read this discussion board daily and sometimes have opinions and sometimes don't... a lot of ladies prefer to only use the ad board and keep their opinion/personality/etc. off the discussion boards. To each her own... it has quieted down in the past few years (ever since the photo thread changed ... sad sad day... )
Posting here has proved to be detrimental to a provider's reputation and business if the right hot topic arises and strikes a nerve. Someone who is angry and posting while venting or drunk can show a nasty side no one wants to portray (both clients and providers). Some ladies find it best to stay off completely and allow all judgements by clients to be made in person. This makes sense to me, but I also have a lot to say so I won't let that deter me from responding. 
Let's talk about SEX baby or whatever else is on your mind - I love current events and hot topics but don't usually jump in if my opinion has been expressed by someone else
Good response Natalie. I have always liked your posts. You also are darn good looking.
Rochmn can you also call me pretty too? 😜 since you have called all the female posters in this thread pretty I'm felling left out😂
Since I'm not much of a drinker, I never really thought of that as being part of the equation,
I guess the same could be said about too much coffee, energy drink or just having a bad day -people sometimes do go overboard and that can also make for some good entertainment, I get what you say about if your opinion has already been expressed by others.
I do think we are all still human (so far) so there will never be any perfect discussion, no matter what the topic..but that can be a good thing too.
Thanks for chiming in sexXY lady
IMHO it would be fantastic to see more local providers posting opinions on this board. Years ago there was a book Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus. I for one have had my eyes opened to the other viewpoint more than once on this board.
Mindy - I do owe you an apology for offending you a while ago and so I am sorry but I sometimes need to be hit in the head to turn around.
Keep posting your opinions ARE valuable.
Also miss seeing your pictures on the photo board.
I have been here since 2001 and have seen a lot of changes. What had happened here in the last few years was bad for all. The changes that have happened in the last few weeks have me optimistically hoping they stay. When I first started it seemed like there was even numbers of posts started by guys and providers. Everyone talked and at least tolerated each other 😜. I really think if people think before they post we could get there again,
I have learned the hard way that if something gets my goat I have to wait to post. My initial gut feeling can get me in trouble sometimes because the emotions can get the better of me until the brain thinks about it. It was nice having a community that at least on the surface cared for each other in a sexual, deviant way 😂.
The topics would really vary and covered everything you could ever imagine. This should be our board to talk about things. If the mods start silencing providers who want to talk about non hobby things and say they are advertising then all of us need to complain about it to have them relax some. We should be able to have adult conversations here without fear of getting silenced or ridiculed. If a provider wants to talk sports she should be able to. Same as a guy that wants to talk about girly things,after we rib him a little, should be able to.
Like mindy said this really is a good way to get to know people on here. I know in the past what providers have said on here has influenced me in both directions. Some I thought I would never see i have because of what they have said here and vise versa. Just like im sure has happened with providers over the years. Today's world has gotten too " all about me,screw the other guy" mentality going on. To many good people with good ideas and thoughts don't talk on here because of it i think.
Why do we all have to follow that? This is a very small closed community and being like it was makes new people not want to talk about it and really hurts us all.
I personally would love to have more providers talking on the boards.
Mind just to end up being " put in their place" or argued with to the point they give up & move on.
There are plenty of providers that don't like TER and make no secret of that, I think it's getting a bad rap but it is up to us to get it "back to good" so 2 speak & if we could all lighten up on each other, I know I made plenty of mistakes when I first started expressing myself, but I like most, live & learn.....
While I certainly understand a guy basing his decision on who to visit depending on what they say on the board, I see the board as more of a small talk & a way to look deeper into what some of my good friends think & feel, a lot of times I disagree but I ( so far) have never cared enough to remember it and I've never put anyone on a DNS list because of anything said on the board.......
(so no need to apologize4 anything ranger)
idk why I guess it would defeat (IMHO) the idea of being more real, but that's just my style -I love honesty no matter how brutal it can be, and I'm not surprised to know people change & grow so I love thinking I may get a voice in2 another persons thoughts that become beliefs......
Ok,ok I know that's some deeper kinda stuff right there, for the most part I like to think of the board as safety talk and extended pillow talk.... that's always fun & now lemmie think of what I'm gonna say about the perfect date.....hmmmm...
A large part of my initial attraction to you Mindy was your open and honest posts exposing your personality. I wish more providers could post their thoughts with out fear of degrading retribution from negative attitudes.
I read the board most every day and do pay particular attention to provider's posts. Over time its a pretty good way to understand interests, personality and whether or not you might like to spend time together. I am disappointed in how often providers get flamed and don't really blame them when they check out. Maybe if the community started to call out the trolls more often and do a better job of protecting everyone's right to an opinion, we'd all be better off. Thanks for posting Mindy .. communication is sexXy!!
And that's what I'm going to do from now on. All trolls are getting called out. No more sitting back and letting it happen. I want to hear from everyone about everything even if I don't agree with it. I don't have to and won't respond to all posts unless it interests me.
Now like Mindy I need to think about the perfect time too,
I also come here daily. Whether I post or not, I try to read as much as I can.
One thing I do, like consider8, is to both discover and discount certain ladies by their words just as the ladies judge us in the same way.
Not many things more attractive than a lady who is well-spoken, both here and in person. Just saying that on a profile does not mean much. The proof is in the pudding and some are able to do so while many others are not.
Good thread.
Nor will getting into flaming wars with them. But if the rest of us focus on having civil discussions, even where we disagree, then the trolls will be greatly outnumbered.
You're right a flame war is not the answer. But if we let them know their behavior is not wanted or tolerated here they will hopefully either take it down a notch or leave. Like what is said below this, some guys with their wiring might not get it but we can always hope
Intimacy in all forms are basic human needs and drives. It comes from our 'lizard' brain at the base of the skull. It's the same place that other basic, basal emotional drives originate. The finer, higher thoughts come from higher up, closer to your forehead. A person cannot 'think' from two different areas of the brain at the same time.
This simple example helps explain what's going on.
Guys, for the most part, are the majority participants on this part of the board. Guys are driven here (TER) in search of fulfilling these basic, basal drives. They are not thinking 'highly' of women or other men ('competition / threat) in this realm. Aggression lives in the basic brain as survival, so men are primed for fight in this realm. It's why so many stupid, unimportant topics get so heated. We men are trying to compete to fulfill our basic needs, not finer needs. These are not judgements, these are facts, so it's not necessary for anyone to be offended, but some will be given the aggressive caveman mindset that brought them here. I'm here too so I'm not better than anyone else in case there are 'offended waiting to happen' in the audience.
Are respectful discussions possible? Yes, they've happened before. Is it more likely simplistic, emotionally-fueled discussions will occur? Yes, it's the nature of how we arrive here (TER).
I agree that men are hard-wired to want to have sex with beautiful women. And there are behaviors, including competitive ones that men follow to try and make this happen. But no small number of guys come on here and make nasty comments about the ladies for no good reason. Escorts or not, that is not a way to increase one's chances of ending up in bed with them.
I believe your basic premise is flawed.
If men are so "primed to fight in this realm", what about the many men who maintain civil behavior here?
And if the poor behavior here is driven by "basal drives", what about all the Web boards that have nothing to do with sex but still exhibit the same kind of behavior?
No. I think it's simply that many people use the cloak of anonymity on Web boards like this to attack others. Why they do that, I'll leave to the psychologists. But it's not unique to sex-oriented boards like this. For an example, check out the Politics & Religion board here. Nothing to do with our basal drives, but one of the nastiest if not THE nastiest board here.
Competition? Whom am I competing against? If I meet a provider's screening requirements and can afford to see her, she'll see me. It's an open market system, not WWE Smackdown.
-- Modified on 8/12/2015 3:22:16 PM
Totally agree with anonymity as primary reason asses can be super asses. Some go as far as double anonymity with an alias to insulate themselves from consequences with providers for their behavior.
All the shitty arguing or trolling comes from our little brain (not that one guys). Evolved thinking doesn't get emotional, it's rational and respectful. It listens to understand, not to argue or find fault. Emotional thinking assumes all comments are directed at the reader and are personal attacks that require immediate rebuttal - like they are being challenged (in a competition).
Even boards that have nothing to do with love, sex, religion or politics can have assholes in the mix, so I agree that anonymity and aliases let the asses of the world have a forum. Every board on TER is on TER. The draw here is not to talk about our model trains. What brings us to TER is a basal drive and then we have several options from there. I was on a board based on life in a foreign country. It was very helpful with all sorts of forum sections and all very civil, except for the 'relationships & sex' section. It was the worst behaved section and eventually was dropped from the site after many years and terrible behavior. The same aliases were decent in all other sections, but totally creeps on the relationship section. It's something in the subject matter that lowers the quality of discourse.
participate with maturity. some great guys and gals there. no trolls allowed.
I am not terribly optimistic regarding the results but I am hopeful.
Over the years I have witnessed many "Kiss & Make up" posts. They typically lighten up the board for a brief period of time but in the end it's back to the same old thing. Sometimes the post doesn't even make it to the second page before the "Putz club" starts in with their antics again. "Sigh"
Crossing my fingers, hoping for the best.
Take care
Leigh-Ann
Over the years I have witnessed many "Kiss & Make up" posts. They typically lighten up the board for a brief period of time but in the end it's back to the same old thing. Sometimes the post doesn't even make it to the second page before the "Putz club" starts in with their antics again. "Sigh"
Crossing my fingers, hoping for the best.
Take care
Leigh-Ann
Over the years I have witnessed many "Kiss & Make up" posts. They typically lighten up the board for a brief period of time but in the end it's back to the same old thing. Sometimes the post doesn't even make it to the second page before the "Putz club" starts in with their antics again. "Sigh"
Crossing my fingers, hoping for the best.
Take care
Leigh-Ann
And that is where we need to change things Leigh-Ann. We can't allow it to get there again. Hopefully enough of us are feed up with what this board became and don't like it and want something similar to what it used to be. Seems like there are several of us feeling the same way. We just need to hang together and not let the "Putz club" take control again.
I came aboard in 2009 & recall us having loads of fun. We could even disagree with laughter! Lol! I also know it was even better before then.
I saw a huge change when we lost the Mods. Who remembers Apollo? Lord do I miss him! It is what it is now though & at the end of the day we are responsible for moderating ourselves. As adults that's how it should be in the first place. That's my opinion anyway.
Lets roll kiddos! Hee! Hee!
-- Modified on 8/12/2015 6:51:39 AM
It absolutely is what we make of it. I agree having local Mods made it better but as you said "it is what it is" so we have to move on. With that being said all of us can make this a little better place buy not dropping to the level of the "Putz club" and bringing it back up to where it should be. No reason we can't talk about anything and tolerate it instead of bashing people down. Already there have been some fun things brought up in the board. Thank you to those that have started them and those that have responded as adults. I might be overly optimistic but I think we can have a decent board here. I know it will never be perfect but I do think we can be civil.
You are one smart lady
I wonder whatever could u mean .... ..... ........
It's all fucking & fun
That's all
-- Modified on 8/12/2015 4:17:40 PM
Lighting a candle is a standard symbol for praying with you.
The trolls are here. They are here to stay.
But I agree with Leigh Ann and you, it would be nice if the board was nicer.
Google light a candle
I miss her SO much. Anyway I'm sorry I was talking about the dot, dot, dot,
Figured it was a veiled reference to me still being here, but I'll just put a lid on my assumptions & take your word at face value. Thanks for the clarification.
TER decides what posts are acceptable and what are not. IMHO, what it is about is the rest of us refusing to let the trolls ruin things for us. What they post says a great deal about them and very little about us.
But do you ever not post a response, with your great insight, just because you think the responses may not be positive? I honestly think some threads are more telling by who doesn't respond vs who does respond. Just an honest and sincere question.
Could say the same about you here wong.
I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me and I figure that no matter how many positive responses I get to my posts, there are some who don't agree, whether they post or not.
If I'm going to make a post that I think some people are likely to disagree with strongly, then even more so than usual I like to think carefully about what I say. Sometimes I don't have time to figure out what I think is a good post. Sometimes I'm too tired or cranky. And sometimes I just don't feel like it.
I mean this sincerely, and you know this, Mindy. Maybe you've changed for the better since you're a more seasoned provider now? I would love to be here periodically. I don't have time in general, but once every month or two I'd love to post something creative... but haven't been since you came onto the scene as you used to really attack me and others, big time. Many women left this board as some of the men don't want to see women here, which is absurd. I would love it if all the women can support a healthy dialogue here, as we sure are incredibly supportive in being great references and keeping us safe that way! Certainly the women are a fantastic community behind the scenes!
-- Modified on 8/13/2015 9:24:56 AM
Look I'm not going any further with this but to say, I don't feel I attacked anyone under any if my alias's
-one that is now retired and of course now I have the new one.
I said what I felt. Period. I think you were being unduly harsh (a bully) in the big scheme of things when it came to the downfall of a well known provider, yet nobody but me called u on it.
I stand up for my own gender often, it's kinda about my own life back story ( we all have them)
Anyway I doped NOT know that she was known to rip people off and this was not an unusual thing, I kind of saw it as you jumping on the bandwagon to "toot your own horn" & no at the time I didn't feel like all the people in the world of TER should
Know (or would care) who rubbed me the wrong way.
But hey I now know she had a history of doing similar things to guys some of whom may not have felt comfortable coming forward, maybe you knew this, idk I'm not privy to all things, & I probably shouldn't have opened my worth to add my 2cents. I just thought trying make it into a self serving ad seemed cold on ur part. Again maybe I misjudged & there was more to that story too.....who knows.......
As far as "people" I've attacked....ah no you don't............you do NOT know how my email was filed w/ harassment, and the messages I got there's at least one high lass gal that knows full well since day one said provider took is issei with me & gossiped behind my back heavily
things that were not even close to true and some just down right vindictive!
Now it's all water under the bridge -as far as I'm concerned- because I don't hold onto anger- but there are more than one or two guys who caught some serious crap for simply shilling for me! Is that right?
And yes it's back when I was new and yes when I found out some of the crap- I did anonymously vent, which I think everyone is entitled to. (note I didn't start the topic it was already being discussed by many & I jumped in w/ my thoughts at the time)
As far as that provider goes it took a full year before I learned so much more about that person & certain health issues that may have come into play w/ her treatment of me, IDK but I forgave & let it go.
At least my gentleman friends will not hear me down talk gals and I would never do anything other than encourage men to visit other gals...like directing them your way, more than once since you have a very specific specialty. I don't play the passive aggressive crap I say what I feel and let it go...get it out and move on...
I've lived too long to look back biting my nails because maybe everyone won't like me, & people shouldn't expect to always have everyone like them, it is what it is. I have emotion I'm a human being at times I vent.
I try very, very hard not to ever come across as "attacking" anyone!
Elan if I remember correctlly I have seen you let your emotions get the best of you sometimes on here. Everyone does. The thing is most of us really want to move on from here and let the past be the past. No longer letting the trolls control where this board goes.
I think most of us don't want to see 2 or 3 people that have a grudge against another hashing it out on here. Things like that are better taken care of through PM's or emails.
Exactly who you, pugdog, thinks are the 2 or 3 people hashing out grudges and/or the trolls are? Since you are rallying to make this board better who or what is it you are lobbying against? This is a sincere question as I am interested in your perspective as you have come forward with a desire to make a difference. I'm wondering if your list of negative jives with my list of negative.
I think we all know who the number one troll is. It might be because of his age or it could just be him. He seems to start things and then others hop on board. " I would get a beer with you". Some people just blindly follow instead of standing on their own and I just want to see the board become what it is ment to be, a place where we can talk and debate about anything and not a bashfest.
The point of debating is to discuss different opinions not force everyone into agreement. If you can't debate without feeling you have to force the other party to accept your view as right, you should just shut the fuck up and grow up
I along with everyone else likes to have a good time and joke around but not at the expense of others. I use myself as the butt of the joke if need be to get the laugh but degrading someone to make a joke is really childish and shouldn't be tolerated any where.
Some of the grudges that I have heard about here are also a little childish. People who are new here or in the hobby don't know what is acceptable or not. People should take that as a chance to help them understand and take the right path. Then if after that they don't, move on and write them off as not willing to learn. We all know of past providers and hobbiests who have done things that they shouldn't have and to assume the new people know about that is unrelistic. You need to remember they don't know that person or what baggage that comes with them.
What is so wrong with the gals helping each other on the provider board or here. And us guys helping the new guys. We all have our certain likes and dislikes in what we want to spend our time and money with. Maybe it's just my nature but I like helping people that are new to things that I know about. I don't see it as compitition to me. Why can't we all just get along? You don't have to like everyone because that's not going to happen but to bash them or backstab them is not really needed. Any backstabbing shouldn't happen.
I know it will never be perfect here but why can't we try to be better then it has been? I know I'm just as much to blame for the way the board became because I did't step in earlier to keep it on the road, we all let it happen
that a person agrees with everything they say or do.
I happen to be open to hearing most everyone's opinions, even if we disagree on some things or even many things.
I will say that a messenger can often not be heard or listened to even if the message is valid. I'm trying to see that "message" no matter how it is delivered, whether eloquently, poorly, negatively, positively, etc.
Ever heard the expression "Don't shoot the messenger"?
I think we all know who the number one troll is. It might be because of his age or it could just be him. He seems to start things and then others hop on board. " I would get a beer with you". Some people just blindly follow instead of standing on their own and I just want to see the board become what it is ment to be, a place where we can talk and debate about anything and not a bashfest.
The point of debating is to discuss different opinions not force everyone into agreement. If you can't debate without feeling you have to force the other party to accept your view as right, you should just shut the fuck up and grow up
I along with everyone else likes to have a good time and joke around but not at the expense of others. I use myself as the butt of the joke if need be to get the laugh but degrading someone to make a joke is really childish and shouldn't be tolerated any where.
Some of the grudges that I have heard about here are also a little childish. People who are new here or in the hobby don't know what is acceptable or not. People should take that as a chance to help them understand and take the right path. Then if after that they don't, move on and write them off as not willing to learn. We all know of past providers and hobbiests who have done things that they shouldn't have and to assume the new people know about that is unrelistic. You need to remember they don't know that person or what baggage that comes with them.
What is so wrong with the gals helping each other on the provider board or here. And us guys helping the new guys. We all have our certain likes and dislikes in what we want to spend our time and money with. Maybe it's just my nature but I like helping people that are new to things that I know about. I don't see it as compitition to me. Why can't we all just get along? You don't have to like everyone because that's not going to happen but to bash them or backstab them is not really needed. Any backstabbing shouldn't happen.
I know it will never be perfect here but why can't we try to be better then it has been? I know I'm just as much to blame for the way the board became because I did't step in earlier to keep it on the road, we all let it happen.
Your right OTB.
I am also totally open to hearing anything too. But when the response back is extreamly degrading and puts down the past response then you just lost any crediability you might have had. And when almost all of your responses are like that your credibility is next to nothing.
And sometimes trying to get what they are saying printed on the board is not always what they ment. I know that has happened to me in the past. In your mind you are trying to say one thing and what you type is totally another thing. And people can read into the answer too. And it can get frustrating when others don't get what your trying to say. But when people seemingly purposly write something to fan the flames that is what I dislike.
Having a civilized debate is what we should be having on this board. Trying to put down others for their thoughts are not what we want. Absolutly I want to hear all sides of what ever the subject is but keep it civilized without the bashing that has happened here before. And some people are better and saying what they mean and for those that are not eloquent we should cut them some slack instead of jumping on them.
Soooo your asking Pug to name names and point fingers on who's the trolling type?!?!??? (that in itself kinda defeats what we are trying to do)
IMHO that could change weekly or even daily but yeah there's a couple who always seem to be intentionally, bodily controversial such as Talon, recently talking about some innocents (TCF tellers) that don't participate on the board even naming their specific location...you know behaviour like that.....anyway it's about looking at the bigger picture & individualiy holding ourselves to a higher standard so as to keep things as postive as possible.
At least that's my take on it & when people make a concentrated effort to do just that everything else is just better, in other words TER shouldn't really be about letting go & going off at the end of a bad day.
You and the lap dog Pug and the Mz have a wonderful PR campaign going on for the usual fools on this board. We don't all agree with your thoughts lately so why don't you and your company take your own advice and let posts be opinions and leave it at that? Wow...this coming from a handle with a long posting history and review history...shocking I didn't resort to an alias.
-- Modified on 8/13/2015 9:32:21 PM
-- Modified on 8/13/2015 9:33:14 PM
Ok clearly you are not as open minded like I think I am, because you keep saying the something over and over. So with that being said I'm not going to respond to this anymore, because unlike some I don't continue to beat my head into a brick wall when there is not going to be any type of change. You and your gang go right ahead and continue to think your right and I'll do what I want. Because that is clearly how you play the game, making the rules up as you go to make sure you win.
You think what you are doing is trying to "change" a vast group of people and I see it as trying to control. When I feel people try to control I will of course push back. Especially when the control has an undertone of manipulation involved. You say "you and your gang" I'd love to hear what you mean but I guess you decided you won't respond which is probably all the better for you. I will however say I can put a few things together in my own mind about your angle by doing a simple search of your posting history along with the posting history of a couple other handles you support as of late. My reason for bantering with you over the last couple days is to ensure you and "your gang" realize not everyone is a sheep to be manipulated. You may see me as a problem or a troll or negative or whatever label you want to place on me but I see the same in you. If you want me to I could certainly post a long ass dissertation explaining the nuances but I think it best to leave that alone for now.
Looking forward to you not responding to me! Have a great weekend.
Im not looking to control or change anyone. If what I have said makes someone think before posting the nasty ass shit that has been going on here then great i did my part. And yes you have already made up your mind so im not going to waste my time trying to change it. And you have been part of the issue at times, but I have also agreed with you a lot of the time too. If you want to talk about a sheep following the asshoIe hurd look at yourself and some of your posts and look in the mirror .
Believe me i am not scared of anything you might think you have.
The old deflect, inflate your worth, blame, and deflect again routine. A sorry and tired version of debate. I thought you said you wouldn't respond anymore. Liar.
Funny how you seem to have diarrhea of the mouth and can't seem to shut up. Vorlon might respond a lot like you claim but at least hes not rude like you have been. But keep talking so people can see your true colors.
You responded like I figured you would. So sad when we could really debate after all.
So since you seem to know all, you clearly know you are no longer debating. You have reached the point of just trying to put me down and be rude. You passed the debating line several posts ago.
Funny how earlier you claimed I was manipulating people and i shouldn't do that, but here you are trying to do that to me and get me to go off on you. You are apparently dumber then I gave you credit for before. Congratulations on that.
-- Modified on 8/16/2015 7:27:43 AM
At the risk of being accused of being a "white knight" I have to come to the defense of Mindy. I think I have spent enough time with her to vouch for her integrity. She's never discouraged me to see any other provider nor has she ever gossiped about other providers. So I can't understand how someone who's never met her warn others to avoid her because of some rumors she's heard. I rest my case.
My two cents. I am a long time client of Elan and I have enjoyed her. Over time however as she has become more adept at the business of the hobby I have become uncomfortable. She is an excellent business woman and she has applied her communication skills in self marketing. There is no denying she knows how to create attachment. She always says she is here to enhance her clients. As time has passed I have felt more like a customer she is working to attract and keep. She has become more possessive and discouraged me from seeing other providers and spoken unkindly of them. Mindy spoke of Elan being a Bully. I can see that. I have seen the controlling manipulative side of Elan entitled to lecture and condescend exposing an unpleasant narcissism. She always demands respect but sometimes doesn't correspondingly give the same respect to me the client. I found her post to Mindy to be condescending, lecturing, superior and reminded me of an occasional interaction with me. I don't see Elan as much as I used for all these reasons
In this lifestyle I see a great danger in going in and hoping for attachment.
I can see celebrating pleasure and being alive and human and the natural need and in sharing pleasure as a movement to give a nod to life, per se. Hats off to life that makes us inherently need affection and care and pleasure. It can be an art form or simply a pure and natural gift to get to find a true pleasure.
I understand sharing in this finite time in affection. I am not sure I understand attaching to any client or provider in a way that is exclusive or any provider wishing any client to be exclusive to them as most certainly no provider is exclusive to any one client.
I am afraid that if there is any other interpretation of any event that there is a misunderstanding.
Hats off to nature and our inherent drive for pleasure and the finer things in life if they can be attained, given, offered, received!
No misunderstanding. You create attachment with how you market yourself within the client/provider relationship. You are extremely good at it and I congratulate you as an excellent businesswoman. You have developed a proficient business model. We enjoy seeing each other, but over time I have come to better understand you and what I'm dealing with. I just agreed with some of the points Mindy made about you. I just offered my opinion as a guide to current and prospective clients of yours. It seems to me it is more of a business to you now than when we first met in your early career.
Maybe I misunderstand you.
What I know of myself is that I value and appreciate celebrating life itself and staying within healthy boundaries! That is good personal and professional business.
-- Modified on 8/14/2015 4:16:24 PM
I am not trying to be harsh or unfair and would not continue to see you if I didn't enjoy you. However, my point is that I have seen a change in you over time. You are more controlling and business like. I know you honestly think you are not creating attachment to business advantage. My personal experience is that the mutual celebrating of life ethic you espouse has decreased over time with a greater emphasis on building your business through the creation of attachment. In this area your boundaries are very unclear and the benefits accrue to you. Maybe you are not even aware of this which is more appealing than if you are working your business plan. This is an area where I feel disrespected and manipulated. Having said all this, I am only one client and a singular experience. It may well be different with all your other clients. I apologize if I have misrepresented you in total. I have and will enjoy you, just with an understanding of the changes that have occurred in my experience with you.
Dear Torkelson,
Seeing as I now only see 3 clients a week I
kindly ask you to go and find a more fitting match for you.
Anyone feeling I am a narcissist or feeling any manipulation at all, if there are others, then for the sake of all sexy in this universe, please do better for yourself and myself.
In these years I have felt incredible change and indeed have found more about what I do like and what I do not like sensually. This has been a beautiful process for me and I imagine I'm not alone in this on either side of clients or providers, that here many of us discover what we like (and don't) than ever before.
-- Modified on 8/14/2015 7:14:44 PM
-- Modified on 8/14/2015 7:18:47 PM
Time for me to step into this thread. I have been a client of Elan's for over a year and have enjoyed many, many great sessions with her. The sessions have evolved over the time as I have gotten to know her - and vice versa. She is an incredibly intelligent person who is passionate about the hobby. This world - and especially this hobby - is a better place because of Elan Montage!
-- Modified on 8/15/2015 1:46:20 PM
is the complete opposite of my experience with Élan. I was one of the first people she saw when she was starting out here and I have continued to see her because of the way she conducts herself. My experiences with Élan just keep getting better, I except what she offers and never have the expectation I should be getting something more than she's willing to give me.
I have never been disappointed when I leave her and she has always been happy to offer recommendations when she thought I would enjoy meeting one of her friends. She has always been happy to vouch for me any time I have asked.
You must be a very special person if she wants you all to herself....but I suspect that your sense of attachment is causing you to see something that's not really there. Infact a client becoming attached and no longer respecting the boundaries of a provider and the boundaries of P4P is a very good reason for a provider to pull back on the experience she offers you.
It's unfortunate that you seem to have created this account with no reviews and no posting history just to post on this thread and that leads me to believe there is much more to your history with her than meets the eye.
All I know for sure is that the picture you have painted of Élan is nothing like the person I know her to be.
-- Modified on 8/14/2015 7:32:01 PM
Nothing is more wonderful than listening, sensing and responding in a safe environment.
When chemistry, respect, truly listening to one another and in that listening finding the boundaries and then working within them only opens up the most wonderful of new worlds we certainly have found unique to you and me. Every time I see you something surprises me and I feel I discover something new I've not known before and it is a beautiful thing I get to find each time without expectation, without pressure. Simply pure presence. Being present with you shows there are miracles for showing up open, curious, trusting and sexy!
Great to show ones face and what a beautiful face you have.
-- Modified on 8/14/2015 8:34:00 PM
Although I have never had a sensual experience with Elan, we do meet and talk occasionally.
Elan is a woman interested in creating pleasure, both in the hobby and in her personal life.
She would only pull back if she felt there was a need to do so. Perhaps the Torkelson
character has become attached to Elan and she is not willing or able to reciprocate.
Unreciprocated feelings hurt the heart and would cause one to lash out. That is natural
as we are human beings with complex (or not so complex) needs, desires, interests, and
feelings. I would urge Torkelson to evaluate his feelings before continuing in the hobby.
No matter which provider he sees, he has to be able to keep separate the deepest levels
of emotional attachment. This is not meant to be "Love Connection". The feelings should
stop at casual friendship.
The Good, the Bad, & the Ugly are restricting their arguments of which is which to one thread. Now THAT's an accomplishment!
It would be even better if you gave an opinion LC.
What happened to your wanting to create a sense of community on this board.
IMO, you are one of the worst offenders.
Belinda
PS - I thought you blocked me. Oh well....
Wong is in it for Wong and could care less about anyone else. His sense of community is if his 2 heads agree, nothing more nothing less. He has proved that over and over just on this thread alone.
If I have offended you in any way.
I never meant to communicate to not see other providers. I know that when someone seems to even get anywhere near a boundary or wishes to ask for more than I am willing to give that I do absolutely get touchy and I am sure many a man or woman can vouch for that in my life both in this lifestyle and out! It's not fun defending boundaries... but it is also a part of life. I do apologize, however, for any way that may have truly offended. It could be an issue of communication and chemistry having something being amiss and then certainly you should see me less or none at all... whatever is most healthy. Feeling like a customer above feeling like a genuine human connection in the moment is very much just not sexy and it is imperative to the deep health of the human psyche and sex to honor both boundaries and one's humanity which is what being truly sexy is about. That is why we are here and it either clicks or doesn't. May it click! May we all find what pleases while also having the beauty of integrity intact for all parties. It is possible, it is desired!
I am known to recommend seeing these women quite often! Just email them and they will not deny me recommending others to see them! I describe to many men why I might like any one of these in particular.
Victoria Breckin
Poppy
Claire South
Trinity
and Jillian
Victoria Sloan
on occasion Charlotte
They will all vouch for me in sending them clients! When Clients ask I do share whom is my favorite choice and I miss Melissa GFE and I miss Samantha Good. I've myself adored playing with these women (excepting Claire, whom I've just enjoyed greatest laughs and fascinations and horse play).
These women are on time, a sheer pleasure and so sensual with me and very well liked! I highly recommend them for anyone who is curious and who may want a threesome... yes!!!!
I do not get paid for recommending them in any way whatsoever aside from an instant inner smile.
-- Modified on 8/14/2015 5:10:46 PM
Trinity once warned me against seeing new people.. unseasoned clients. She told me there are a number of reasons for this.
Also, I have been a part of another very sexy community and they also say the same, that to be with a "newbie" is quite dangerous when it comes to the world of sex or for that matter, probably other addicting or potentially addicting substances or activities.
I didn't head the wisdom given me.
I went down the path anyway and treated this client with the same or similar affection I give to those that have a great affinity with me and I with them who wish for or show to be receptive to connecting outside of just the 4 walls we play in. I was unprepared for this client due to his being "new" (my being his first provider). I did recommend he see Poppy, as I wanted the very best for his second experience. He did see her and then returned to me. I wished for him to have an FS but if Poppy isn't it... it's up to him to discover who is best for him. It's hard to "recommend" other providers for specific reasons... so I just said see anyone but Mindy, as I've never met her but I've heard some most terrible rumors that have or do not have a true basis, but that certainly her "good intentions" proved that some of the rumors were based in fact. I no longer steer people clear of Mindy, as she seems to have become much calmer and I don't hear new rumors about her much at all anymore like I used to. Some of these old rumors used to be quite alarming. Since I don't hear them anymore I don't think about it anymore and assume those dangers, either real or perceived, are not as relevant to the present and may just be a thing of the past. Bygones be bygones.
I've learned that if I see anyone new to my creative events that I may need to let them know clearly in advance, that I am not interested in any affairs as a specific line item, if anyone seems that they are wanting something really special with me that the special is not destined for marriage or affairs, but yes to art, the art of the present moment.
I still give and receive gifts, make small or larger paintings, find lovely and meaningful books, poems, quotes, have lunches or dinners, other gifts, shoes, boots, sporting gifts or accessories, or to offer or request poems or quotes or striking passages or a more tangible amazing out of this world olive oils, or other gifts that I think some of my clients may appreciate. This by no means has ever been interpreted as my way of suggesting I wish to attach in any life altering way except to this "new to the hobby" client. This is my "masterful/manipulative" ploy or business acumen he may be referring to in me being an expert in getting clients to "attach" to me. Some of my clients bring me avocados, or tea, or books, music, theater tickets or theater accompaniment, sporting goods, poems, gourmet items... etc. I am known to give a plethora of interesting finds. It's not just about sex, it is about connection. Hell, I go skiing or to theater or for nature walks, meditations, and other excursions. I do love what I do. I do enjoy a real connection. Life is short, this moment is sacred, enjoy it for all that it is. The humanity we have is incredible and this moment is incredible and so... embrace all the good that there is here, make the good that there is here. Yes, this is good personal and professional business. Many businesses "love" their clients. That's the best way!
This new client had things go differently emotionally and other accidental but unpleasant blunders that resulted in my expression of communicating strong boundaries and I am sure it can come across as condescending in the moment when it is genuinely just a loud clarion call, a beacon, an unmistakable message that demands a boundary to be understood or everything is needing to be called off. Even needing to have such strong communication was my error in continuing the connection. He asked for an affair and some other things and I flew off the handle and lost my own professional centerpoint entirely with this one individual on this occasion especially, but at the request for an affair it was just entirely over... and ungraciously so. I am sorry we had to learn this lesson together. I am sorry the wound has not healed yet. I understand why it may not have. We shared allot of lovely times together. I did not head the wisdom of advice from my mentor/predecesor Trinity and others who are seasoned. Trintiy enjoys trips, and gifts, and time with some of her clients, as do a good number of the providers. Trinity encouraged me that it is very much alright and even a benefit to enjoy human connection both intellectually and emotionally with some of our clients. Well, Trin, you were right through and through on this point: do connect, do have boundaries, don't see "new to the hobby" people.
I lived out a cautionary tale in this instance and I am sorry as I had an enormous part in this going down wrong as it started out wrong. I doubt anyone new to the hobby can quite groc how profoundly true this is but I know many of you seasoned clients and many of you seasoned providers understand my mistake and still even better than I do now. Do not see new clients more than once or twice, even if they want to stay with "just you"... encourage them strongly to see others, more than one, but ten or more and have a boundary for yourself around this one. I understand this individual didn't want to see 10 other providers. But if just one or two,... then perhaps another venue for extra marital connections are a better option. (I've said it before: ashley madison or seeking arrangements or some other venue).
The problem is that someone who is brand new to this lifestyle is not entirely appropriate for the kind of treatment that I offer. I don't actually fully understand it, but I now believe this to be true. One experience like this has been painful for both parties. I am sorry. And it is mostly my fault, not his. I do know I will not repeat this mistake. I am awfully sorry I didn't head wisdom given to me in the first place and please let my experience be a cautionary tale if you yourself are new, or if you're a provider coming across someone who is entirely green to this lifestyle.
These months with this client were by and large my mistake, my fault. I am sorry. I will not repeat these obvious to me now, mistakes. I am sorry for any damage felt.
This was hard.
This was the most difficult and even frightening experience I've ever had in this lifestyle. Some of the blunders were outrageous and the fear of vindictiveness is alive on both sides and I truly wish that we both put this one to bed and move on.
-- Modified on 8/16/2015 4:05:25 PM
-- Modified on 8/16/2015 4:27:19 PM
How dare you? You were advising people not to see me because of rumours?!?
Wow.
And danger? Are you effing kidding me!?!?
Look élan I've things going on so I haven't been able to reply to your private message to me but you going on here to publicly admit that you advised people against seeing me.....well that's just ridiculous!!
It must be all fun and games when you run with the popular crowd (or as you like to put it the top girls) IMHO
mean-er girls ya'all could star in ..... but you need a reality check
Speaking out & venting when I was getting harassed does not give you the right to advise people or further continue those "romours"
you know NOTHING of me or what I've gone thru on a personal level from some providers, supposed "sisters" you & I haven't ever so much has glanced at each other or met in person.
believe this: karma is always present & I can honestly say I have never, ever told any guy EVER not to see any provider, I suggest you ask around about me to some people that know you and me & find out how real this statement is.
I really am just sitting here with my eyes wide right now... Thinking hmmm well I guess I'll just consider the source.
As I hope others do too.
here was allot of smoke about a year and a year and a half ago and all those "good intentions" along with the big "Max" scare was happening at the same time... so many people thought you were actually Max. That I'll never know, maybe somebody has gotten that bad memory figured out and hopefully it is just that from this point forward... a bad memory of that weird "Max" intimidation going out to all the gals. The final one being you and your bestie. Then it all ended. We all saw the smoke and allot of it surrounded you Mindy. That Max and "good intentions" was a scary combo. I am just saying that now that both of those are blown over for a long time, maybe it's safe to be on this board again. Maybe. It would be nice. Almost every provider was harassed by whoever Max was. Weird, confusing, frieghtening and coincidental days back then. I think many pulled back after that. Some of the women left entirely back then.
WOW Elan,
You claim you have high standards and morals yet you slander Mindy on rumors and have never met her. You should know that most of the rumors in this world are strictly based on getting the competition eliminated. For you to continue with it just shows how low you will go. I have never heard a bad thing about you in the past but your true colors just came through. And now everyone knows you don't have any morals like you claimed you had.
ery provider knows this. Every provider got the Max messages. Weird ass shit back then. Everyone was wondering who the heck it was. I was coincidentally or not coincidentally a good time to be all about "good intentions" while the Max stuff was around.
I talked with several providers at the time and was pulled in on it too. I was also threatened of being outed. I do have it narrowed down to 2 or 3 people it could be and that was as far as I could figure it out. And I can tell you who it wasn't easier then who it was and I know Mindy was not part of it at all. But for you to just ASSUME things because your gals told you is really irresposible of you. Makes you wonder how you run the rest of your life if your like that here.
also why so many women left the board, or left the hobby, in part or in total.
I never "knew" it was or wasn't Mindy. You, Pugdog, personally know it wasn't Mindy, and that is good to hear. Just so many thought it was and that put everyone on edge.
Max was TERRIFYING.....
I was not told who got flushed out.
but it did get flushed out who it was.
And now I am terrified it might have been Mindy after all and I thought maybe it wasn't... but now I jsut made a mistake in writing this post to someone who is potentially that whole nightmare from last year..
Makes me want to leave the hobby even sooner. Today!!!! I just don't need Max breathing down my neck.
I don't know how to calm Mindy down but she PM"D me and knows I am a "bad" person and a shit eater and wishes me bon appetite.
Oh boy... I only hope I didn't just upset Max. I can only hope it isn't Mindy but I cannot assume it is nor can I assume it isn't .
Or I will do he same. Would you like me too?
Because while I don't like being mean -you said some redicious things to me privetley and I responded that you should stick to what you do best, And that happens to be eating asshole, so what?
That's what I said -while being fed up with you!
I've asked you many times to stop talking, stop trying to manipulate public opinion & stop publicly debating my actions or when "I came on the scene" when I fist joined TER I was a DIY massage girl that didn't know ANYONE of the providers and it stayed that way for a while.....
You just keep on & keep on -not only privately PM-ing me all about your nonsense with torkleson, but trying to claim you want peace. My telling you that I believe you are a liar and if you wanted peace you would have gone about differently still hasn't stopped you both here and privately.....
but alas as I said many, many, times I'm not holding onto anger, do I get angry yes -at times with this I have- still I let it go, you are more of an annoyance than anything else.
Why can't you stop? It's very, very clear to see you are continuing to try 2 tie me to the Max character and your doing your best campaign to make me look like " the last person a guy should see"
You're STILL DOING THAT!
Why??!!?! I will ask again please, stop, stop PMing me & those that have supported me, go hang out with the " in" crowd and let them make you feel better!! enough with this, you show your weakness, for your own sake just stop.
-- Modified on 8/17/2015 12:45:16 PM
So that's what I sad stop trying to contrive an overblown sense of fear (enough of the victim crap)
And again I will point out I use the angry face emo. so that people can find my more recent replies.
That's it -I could care less about hanging onto any anger.
I was just truly surprised and shocked that you so casually admitted to advising guys not to see me & you said it like it was no big deal and NOT wrong!
That really shocked me!
I was as new as you, I was one month earlier in arrival to TER as you and then look at how Max was and hearing the possibility of that likely being you.
Then add to it how Good Intentions treated people and the truth of that coming out.
Now look at Mzchevious and how Mzchevious wonders if it is ok to gossip or have bad opinions of the providers she has threesomes with to be negative and questioning whether they are truly bi or not, etc. just a day or two or so ago (see Robots) No it's not ok to slander people you just had a threesome with, isn't that obvious to Mzchevious?
How everyone is treated by you seems as follows: if someone agrees with you then they are wonderful and an angel, just such a good person; if someone disagrees with you then they are like the devil or at least a bad person that needs to be attacked. That is consistent with Max, Good Intentions, Mzchevious, and Mindy.
Are they all the same person? Does it matter when they appear so much alike?
Yes, it matters, as it can be toxic here or worse! Yes, it matters, as Max was threatening and scared the crap out of allot of people.
If only GoodIntentions was nice. If only Mzchevious was nice, if only Mindy was nice. If only these three names on this board were nice and safe and supportive then more people would come to the board; instead how it is is that many have left but otherwise would still be here.
And then comes the issue of Max that has an uncanny timeline coincidence with your arrival time and Max coming right afterwards. Doesn't mean it was you but this thread began with wondering about Provider Participation and I am just putting in here that the Max aftermath was something to behold and everyone noticed and everyone changed around it except maybe you. You were never afraid. Why?
(Pugdog says you were never afraid of Max because you are better than the rest of us. I wonder if it indicates again that you were indeed Max). I don't know. What I do see is that this picture is the picture painted over the many days you and all your aliases and the coincidences that have surrounded you paints.
Why wouldn't I want to protect anyone from a highly likely danger back during the Max days when so many compass needles seemed to point toward you. When Max was gone, the concern withered with that disappearance.
Whether you are Max or not, don't pretend Mzchevious or Mindy is all that inviting here in actuality. But if so many providers came back and didn't agree with you would Max have a resurgence? Would you attack or threaten them much of the time, anytime they have a difference than the direction you want things to take?
As far as the in-crowd, I was not aware and am not aware that there is such a thing. I just happen to enjoy threesomomes and sharing in other commonalities with some of the women. I don't plot Mzchevious posts or gossip like Mzchevious speaks of in her Robot post. That's not how anyone makes friends. That's a way to divide and create discomfort.
This is not fun to write but so many people have complained that this board feels unwelcoming.
-- Modified on 8/17/2015 6:32:02 PM
-- Modified on 8/17/2015 6:34:38 PM
My using an example of girls wanting to meet and get to know each other before a threesome in no way alluded to I want to talk about anyone I've had 3somes with from an alias- it was an analogy to show how people need chemistry b4 such an intimate act.
And the opposite side of the analogy is gals may need to vent now & then about anything including providers(but I don't have any problems with anyone I've ever had a 3some with & I'm very sure they all know that)
The way you just spun everything around shows very clearly what you are. Now I have nothing further to say so keep trying to connect me to Max, call me dangerous or unafraid,
(Y don't you got ask one of my friends about me calling her up crying during the whole Max thing)
keep telling everyone I have so many alias's & that I attack people, you are only showing how foolish you are.
Anyone that's ever visited me knows I don't gossip and knows I wouldn't ever be hurtful your just upset because people that have seen you can't say the same thing, seems like most people that have visited you have been "warned" about me! How childish!
keep on twisting all the BS élan people can see thru it.
You are very angry and hateful ( at least when it come's to me) , no I refuse to be afraid of you, but I will not allow you to twist my words!
I am done. PLEASE STOP!
I was as new as you, I was one month earlier in arrival to TER as you and then look at how Max was and hearing the possibility of that likely being you.
Then add to it how Good Intentions treated people and the truth of that coming out.
Now look at Mzchevious and how Mzchevious wonders if it is ok to gossip or have bad opinions of the providers she has threesomes with to be negative and questioning whether they are truly bi or not, etc. just a day or two or so ago (see Robots) No it's not ok to slander people you just had a threesome with, isn't that obvious to Mzchevious?
How everyone is treated by you seems as follows: if someone agrees with you then they are wonderful and an angel, just such a good person; if someone disagrees with you then they are like the devil or at least a bad person that needs to be attacked. That is consistent with Max, Good Intentions, Mzchevious, and Mindy.
Are they all the same person? Does it matter when they appear so much alike?
Yes, it matters, as it can be toxic here or worse! Yes, it matters, as Max was threatening and scared the crap out of allot of people.
If only GoodIntentions was nice. If only Mzchevious was nice, if only Mindy was nice. If only these three names on this board were nice and safe and supportive then more people would come to the board; instead how it is is that many have left but otherwise would still be here.
And then comes the issue of Max that has an uncanny timeline coincidence with your arrival time and Max coming right afterwards. Doesn't mean it was you but this thread began with wondering about Provider Participation and I am just putting in here that the Max aftermath was something to behold and everyone noticed and everyone changed around it except maybe you. You were never afraid. Why?
(Pugdog says you were never afraid of Max because you are better than the rest of us. I wonder if it indicates again that you were indeed Max). I don't know. What I do see is that this picture is the picture painted over the many days you and all your aliases and the coincidences that have surrounded you paints.
Why wouldn't I want to protect anyone from a highly likely danger back during the Max days when so many compass needles seemed to point toward you. When Max was gone, the concern withered with that disappearance.
Whether you are Max or not, don't pretend Mzchevious or Mindy is all that inviting here in actuality. But if so many providers came back and didn't agree with you would Max have a resurgence? Would you attack or threaten them much of the time, anytime they have a difference than the direction you want things to take?
As far as the in-crowd, I was not aware and am not aware that there is such a thing. I just happen to enjoy threesomomes and sharing in other commonalities with some of the women. I don't plot Mzchevious posts or gossip like Mzchevious speaks of in her Robot post. That's not how anyone makes friends. That's a way to divide and create discomfort.
This is not fun to write but so many people have complained that this board feels unwelcoming.
-- Modified on 8/17/2015 6:32:02 PM
-- Modified on 8/17/2015 6:34:38 PM
And maybe it is being misread. But maybe it is easy to misread.
See this post after MN4ever re-read it several times.... and Mzcheivious has a history of not being very kind in prior posts.
yeah go read it again because you totally missread the whole tread from everyones view.
Again you twist what I said to suit you.
"(Pugdog says you were never afraid of Max because you are better than the rest of us. I wonder if it indicates again that you were indeed Max). I don't know. "
and what I said in the PM was
" And Mindy has been so comfortable of the boards because she reached the point where she doesn't care about Max and what Max could or couldn't do. Mindy has a backbone unlike the rest of you."
where in there does it say she never was afraid? She was but unlike you decided to move on. Where does it say she is better then you? Because I said she has a backbone unlike you that means she is better? I have always thought someone with a backbone is better then a jellyfish.
You really like to twist things around to try to make youeself look good, and why so many modifications on your posts? Figuring out how stupid your looking and trying to fix it?
ou split your own hairs Pug. Ok
your funny Elan
I like delusional people, they make me laugh
I agreed with some of the things you said initially but you have proven yourself perfectly capable of playing in the mud like everyone else is. Your calls for a more harmonious board seem to ring a bit hollow now Mr. Pugdog
Your right DJ I have. In an attempt to help defend Mindy from the derailment that happened I went to far. Elan decided to poke the sleeping bear and I was right there with her. What could have and should have stopped it never happened. Elan is just as guilty with keeping this going as I am. I am going to stop poking the bear, we shall see if she wants to get in her last poke since she has already proven she has to get in the last word.
Mz says:
"I mean does it really matter to the guy if one provider doesn't particularly like another, and if it does, why? If she doesn't try to bring others into and simply states her opinion now and then, why is that so frowned upon?"
MN4ever says:
Boiling it down, it seems to me you are asking if it is okay to make disparaging remarks about another provider or providers, based upon your personal dealings outside of this discussion board, while concealing your own identity behind an alias. And you are hoping for a yes.
_________________________
I say that after reading the Robot post many times, many people come to this conclusion as well.
Nope, not alone. Pug, you are not representative of everyone by any means. To suggest that you are on the pulse of what everyone thinks fits with how you think, but truth and reality are not at a crossroads in that line of thinking.
-- Modified on 8/17/2015 9:00:01 PM
-- Modified on 8/17/2015 9:05:18 PM
When and where did I ever say I had the pulse of the board? I am saying what I believe you're the one claiming to know what others are saying.
"many people come to this conclusion as well."
Really? If they did don't you think they would have come on here and said so?
u must love yourself, if you love delusion and can't even remember the point of this thread. Yup, I can see you do love delusional people!!!!!
Where have all the posters gone and why arene't they here? You wonder!? Really? This is just that inviting?!
I am under no delusion of why others don't want to just jump right in. As a matter of fact, more just want to PM or email me with their input or thanks or clarifications.
Anyone who knows me knows better and anytime I ever caught the slightest hint of this rumor -I would mention the rumor of me being max to the guys I know & it was immediately dismissed as ludicrous -so NO sorry I had no idea anyone truly thought I was Max even a couple gals I'm friends with said "no way people know better"....
As far as you trying desperately to couple Max with the other persona -that holds no water.two very separate entities, that I'm quit sure the other one was an Alias only ever seen on the MN discussion board & most for surely never threatening or harassing anyone. So STOP trying to connect the two separate entities please. As a matter of fact, please just stop, stop running your mouth about stuff- you yourself admit -you have no clue about.
To spread rumor's is wrong, and you seem to subtly keep on doing it - So just stop!
Who knows who that was? Anyway, hope to never see any Max again!
Ok Elan I can tell you what I know about Max.
Max is a provider.
She threatened to out me and another provider that gave me an okay on P411 back in August 2013. Mindy was not even on P411 at the time, she didn't sign up for P411 till the end of the year. So that alone tells everyone that it could not have been her. But lets look at some of your gal pals who were part of P411 at the time. Like I said before I was able to narrow it down to 2 or 3 it could be. All providers that didn't like compitition. And I think the other name was either "Max" or a close freind of Max helping them out with all the BS that happened.
And no your not making yourself look like the devil yet, just very ill-informed and not willing to seek out the truth. And after every response you just keep throwing more and more dirt around trying to cover up the huge mistake you made and continue to make.
the timing is the same.
Max showed up in July or August. Mindy in November how does that make it the same? Also started in the spring of 2013 and continuing on till the end of the year was a very pissed off banned provider that was Max. If your going to slander someone you really need to get your facts in line with what actually happened not the rumors that were spread by those not in the know.
“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.”
Z.K. Abdelnour
So Pug, you say Max showed up in July or August, and it would be nice if Mindy showed up in November, but TER history reveals otherwise.
This does not prove she is Max, it just proves the timeline.
“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.”
Z.K. Abdelnour
-- Modified on 8/17/2015 1:08:44 PM
indy's reviews going back to August 2013 mention verification thru P411. So she's been there at least that long.
So the timeline is the timeline.
She did massage and then became FS and that was very exciting back then in August of 2013.
I am just getting the timeline straight here. Provider was created created on May of 2013 on TER
Smh
Trinity once warned me against seeing new people.. unseasoned clients. She told me there are a number of reasons for this.
Also, I have been a part of another very sexy community and they also say the same, that to be with a "newbie" is quite dangerous when it comes to the world of sex or for that matter, probably other addicting or potentially addicting substances or activities.
I didn't head the wisdom given me.
I went down the path anyway and treated this client with the same or similar affection I give to those that have a great affinity with me and I with them who wish for or show to be receptive to connecting outside of just the 4 walls we play in. I was unprepared for this client due to his being "new" (my being his first provider). I did recommend he see Poppy, as I wanted the very best for his second experience. He did see her and then returned to me. I wished for him to have an FS but if Poppy isn't it... it's up to him to discover who is best for him. It's hard to "recommend" other providers for specific reasons... so I just said see anyone but Mindy, as I've never met her but I've heard some most terrible rumors that have or do not have a true basis, but that certainly her "good intentions" proved that some of the rumors were based in fact. I no longer steer people clear of Mindy, as she seems to have become much calmer and I don't hear new rumors about her much at all anymore like I used to. Some of these old rumors used to be quite alarming. Since I don't hear them anymore I don't think about it anymore and assume those dangers, either real or perceived, are not as relevant to the present and may just be a thing of the past. Bygones be bygones.
I've learned that if I see anyone new to my creative events that I may need to let them know clearly in advance, that I am not interested in any affairs as a specific line item, if anyone seems that they are wanting something really special with me that the special is not destined for marriage or affairs, but yes to art, the art of the present moment.
I still give and receive gifts, make small or larger paintings, find lovely and meaningful books, poems, quotes, have lunches or dinners, other gifts, shoes, boots, sporting gifts or accessories, or to offer or request poems or quotes or striking passages or a more tangible amazing out of this world olive oils, or other gifts that I think some of my clients may appreciate. This by no means has ever been interpreted as my way of suggesting I wish to attach in any life altering way except to this "new to the hobby" client. This is my "masterful/manipulative" ploy or business acumen he may be referring to in me being an expert in getting clients to "attach" to me. Some of my clients bring me avocados, or tea, or books, music, theater tickets or theater accompaniment, sporting goods, poems, gourmet items... etc. I am known to give a plethora of interesting finds. It's not just about sex, it is about connection. Hell, I go skiing or to theater or for nature walks, meditations, and other excursions. I do love what I do. I do enjoy a real connection. Life is short, this moment is sacred, enjoy it for all that it is. The humanity we have is incredible and this moment is incredible and so... embrace all the good that there is here, make the good that there is here. Yes, this is good personal and professional business. Many businesses "love" their clients. That's the best way!
This new client had things go differently emotionally and other accidental but unpleasant blunders that resulted in my expression of communicating strong boundaries and I am sure it can come across as condescending in the moment when it is genuinely just a loud clarion call, a beacon, an unmistakable message that demands a boundary to be understood or everything is needing to be called off. Even needing to have such strong communication was my error in continuing the connection. He asked for an affair and some other things and I flew off the handle and lost my own professional centerpoint entirely with this one individual on this occasion especially, but at the request for an affair it was just entirely over... and ungraciously so. I am sorry we had to learn this lesson together. I am sorry the wound has not healed yet. I understand why it may not have. We shared allot of lovely times together. I did not head the wisdom of advice from my mentor/predecesor Trinity and others who are seasoned. Trintiy enjoys trips, and gifts, and time with some of her clients, as do a good number of the providers. Trinity encouraged me that it is very much alright and even a benefit to enjoy human connection both intellectually and emotionally with some of our clients. Well, Trin, you were right through and through on this point: do connect, do have boundaries, don't see "new to the hobby" people.
I lived out a cautionary tale in this instance and I am sorry as I had an enormous part in this going down wrong as it started out wrong. I doubt anyone new to the hobby can quite groc how profoundly true this is but I know many of you seasoned clients and many of you seasoned providers understand my mistake and still even better than I do now. Do not see new clients more than once or twice, even if they want to stay with "just you"... encourage them strongly to see others, more than one, but ten or more and have a boundary for yourself around this one. I understand this individual didn't want to see 10 other providers. But if just one or two,... then perhaps another venue for extra marital connections are a better option. (I've said it before: ashley madison or seeking arrangements or some other venue).
The problem is that someone who is brand new to this lifestyle is not entirely appropriate for the kind of treatment that I offer. I don't actually fully understand it, but I now believe this to be true. One experience like this has been painful for both parties. I am sorry. And it is mostly my fault, not his. I do know I will not repeat this mistake. I am awfully sorry I didn't head wisdom given to me in the first place and please let my experience be a cautionary tale if you yourself are new, or if you're a provider coming across someone who is entirely green to this lifestyle.
These months with this client were by and large my mistake, my fault. I am sorry. I will not repeat these obvious to me now, mistakes. I am sorry for any damage felt.
This was hard.
This was the most difficult and even frightening experience I've ever had in this lifestyle. Some of the blunders were outrageous and the fear of vindictiveness is alive on both sides and I truly wish that we both put this one to bed and move on.
-- Modified on 8/16/2015 4:05:25 PM
-- Modified on 8/16/2015 4:27:19 PM
Elan..I have not met you but have seen Mindy many times over the last 3 years including a recent weekend together. She has introduced me to other providers and has only had good things to say about other providers when I ask. Mindy is a joy to be with !
... and that things sound good now. Over a year ago rumors were absolutely nuts and I could make hide nor tail of any of it, and some of them in the mix were proven to be true. Some we'll never know, only the originators know.
It's just good to air this out in this thread as there is an invitation to invite providers to participate here and it would be great for everyone to feel welcome and never return to that crazy rumor mill that was way out of control and had allot of people leave this place for a long time, some entirely quit the hobby due to Max threats. Every single provider got the weirdest threatening emails back then from some weird Max entity.
Maybe not angle /devil scenarios here, but you're definitely being nothing but horrible....just take this headline for instance you say "commet I believe you (yet you personally tell me that you've heard many,many men tell you I gossiped about you) so you don't believe him & for you to say "but that's not how it was a year ago,"
Just like you said right from the get that you knew who torkelson was, yet you start up all this crap the next day with the headline "now that I know who this is" which headline was the truth élan?
I think the point these few men have chimed into say is that they have all known me for a couple years - as the case w/ commet even a year ago he knew me, and I have never been anything other than the same even tempered normal gal he knows and enjoys.
So NO it wasn't different a year ago!
The only thing different a year ago was a bunch of mean girls quick to gossip and speculate w/ out knowing what they were talking about.
I have a very full life I don't need to explain why I'm not Max -though when I was originally accused of this and got threats in emails I immediately gave my real name, DOB.,And even soc. sec. # to what I assumed to be a well respected provider and I told her feel free to look up anything about me including my background because I'm pretty damn sure I wasn't even living here once Max made the scene....well I really have no idea when Max came about,
but why the hell would I put all of my personal info. Into her hands like that??
Just like Élan you claim people told you I was gossiping, who said this & why would I put out the statement publicly that I haven't gossiped about other providers? Why -because I know who I am and what I do & don't do! Ask some of the gals I'm close to, ask what I've ever said about other providers? Ever?
It doesn't matter you will keep on w/ your nonsense and it's so clear by the way you talk " maybe things are calmer now I don't hear as much" who in the world are you? I think you are very self righteous
and I can't believe what you've told me about torkelson, I may have believed you but I've already seen how you've been slandering my name all this time, so yeah -you lost all credibility with me! Honestly I had no idea you gals were at it this bad over me...how silly & sad.
Now please think before you write as I already said I intend to do, and if you don't see your condescending, righteousness just take a look at the titles of all of your posts....." It was not that way a year ago......" WOW
Rumors élan -rumors!
Also no my energy w/this is no longer anger I wrote my peace & let it out I use the emotions so others can easily find my response.
Please, be well
... and that things sound good now. Over a year ago rumors were absolutely nuts and I could make hide nor tail of any of it, and some of them in the mix were proven to be true. Some we'll never know, only the originators know.
It's just good to air this out in this thread as there is an invitation to invite providers to participate here and it would be great for everyone to feel welcome and never return to that crazy rumor mill that was way out of control and had allot of people leave this place for a long time, some entirely quit the hobby due to Max threats. Every single provider got the weirdest threatening emails back then from some weird Max entity.
Mindy, you say you gave your SS# and BD to a provider (Sam) to prove you weren't Max, but don't say: you didn't know you were very much suspected of being Max and that many of the providers were incredibly concerned and don't pretend there was no reason for people thinking you were/are Max.
The coincidence of that time was that right after you gave your SS# and BD to this provider (Sam), that there was one more post by Max and things were done, finally, Max stopped emailing.
This was the same time that it got revealed who the cruel Good Intentions was, beyond any doubts, and it isn't safe to come to TER with such cruelty being delivered.
It's better to just simply say yes, I will be kinder than I have been. Maybe you were actually Max and got what you wanted which is control of this board... as since then you have been MN's main TER discussion participating provider and maybe that is good for your business but at what cost? It gets lonely being the only one here.
Whether you were Max or not, being cruel like Good Intentions doesn't inspire for women to feel safe and trusting near and around you. So I found irony in you asking why it was there are so few providers participating on this platform.
I don't think the new Mzchevious is cruel like Good Intentions but she has shown to be rather unkind and uninviting. Better, though. But, still frequently unkind and that is with less provider participation, what would happen if more came back here to enjoy participating?
I think that this is Knotsaways point.... that many of the discussion board members are not fond of aliases. It's about human dignity and kindness that people deserve in life and being on this board or being in this hobby doesn't mean we have license to walk with any less dignity than anyone else in the world. This can be a beautiful place. I think it is possible, it is desired. Aliases tend to have the poster feel more confident in being mean. That is not a good use of an alias.
You say you are not afraid of me. You shouldn't be. But don't be cruel or unkind. Not just for my sake, but yours and everyones. Treat everyone with kindness and find topics of discussion that inspire people to feel genuinely welcome. It's good business and a good way of life.
Giving your SS# and BD to a provider did not make you look any less guilty... (whether you are or not), but it did show an acknowledgment that you understand people were quite concerned.
All's I asked is that YOU Mindy, and any of your aliases, promise to be kind or kinder on the boards and you really didn't like that as a response to your invitation for more providers to arrive to the discussion. Often when you don't like something you feel attacked. It was a sincere question and the answer so far has been no, you will not be kinder. But perhaps the door to more kindness can open.
There is no incrowd, there are just women who enjoy each other and trust each in MN and that is an incredible and unique part of MN hobby culture. It would be great to invite that onto the boards!!!! Truly!
I hurriedly gave that info. to Sam after provider friend& I were talking on the phone & provider friend even said" I don't believe it & I'm sure nobody else does", I had called provider friend crying because of the hateful threats I was getting in my email.
I was never cruel & have never attacked, though you -elan show just what has been happinhg to me 4 far too long!!
I've said all I need to say. I'm encouraging people to keep it respectful even if we disagree, you have turned this entire post around & have made it about condeming me, like u twist my words & spin,spin,spin, I'm not telling u to leave the board & I never said to eat shit-as a matter of what I've read -the assholes are quit clean, so please, since you don't know what you're talking about & can't stick to the facts when debating, why not just stop trying to engage me?
Keep it real elan
I am no villain -but if it makes u feel better to cast me as one in your mind then whatever, how about at least keeping my name out of your mouth from now on. This is a rhetorical question.
Get well soon
Talon showed up the same time Max did so it has to be him. I heard a rumor on the internet it was him. And we all know the internet doesn't lie. The rumor was he was trying to take over the board with girls he likes. So Talon realing isn't a bad guy just misunderstood.
... then maybe it can clear up the confusion about one of the very few facts mentioned it this incredible thread.
You stated that Mindy joined P411 in November 2013. Not sure how you know that, but I assume Mindy gave you the info since you seemed sure about it.
But as Élan pointed out, according to Mindy's reviews she was on P411 no later than August 2013, and earlier depending on what "verification service" means (from reviews again).
How does the Truth of the Internet explain that discrepancy?
It explains no one has any humor and wants to move on from this. This has ran it's course and needs to stop. That is the truth.
Mindy didn't give me anything. I foound those dates on my own and if I made a mistake so what. Move on this tread is done stop dragging it out.
-- Modified on 8/18/2015 11:08:59 AM
How sincere are you in wishing this to end if you're asking for more readers to come and click the "like" buttons on your posts?
It's not about dragging anything out, I'm sick of replying to everyone who individually spoke to me privately about how much they support me & how unbalanced you SEEM to be, more than a few are too scared of you to post publicly, one even saying you like to get real name's & who knows whose info. would just get yanked into this discussion,
(see you mentioning names & I'm not)
Anyway THAT is why I recommend people could still show their support silently if they so chose to & I fairly stated
"they could like whatever they agreed with" & still keep their privacy.
You know it's one thing to say a girl is flighty, ditzy or you heard she likes a S& M or she's always late, or even you think she's not good looking........... I mean everyone's entitled to their opinion, but to tell everyone (for roughly a year or longer) that I am dangerous?!!
That was truly uncalled for, and as you can plainly see I've met many men & not once has anyone came out to say that I was any kind of danger or put them in any dangerous situation.
There's a name for feeding rumors and spouting out nonsense it called being a hater... & I guess haters...... Are.............gonna........
Hate, (smh)
You should just keep your anger 4 me between the people who don't know me & therefore don't know better,
as you have been......... all this time.
At least I admit I was snarky at times and a few things my old alias said were not needed, you on the other hand seem proud to slander & spew such untrue venom.
How sincere are you in wishing this to end if you're asking for more readers to come and click the "like" buttons on your posts?
-- Modified on 8/18/2015 7:07:33 PM
I never say that. and I did not do this for over a year. It was during that Max stuff. It's been a long while.
LOL... you think I talked about you for a year? Ummm, misunderstanding there. Yes, that would have been a titch tilted and unbalanced indeed.
However, you needing or feeling the need to give a SS# and BD to your worst TER adversary you attacked so hard for so long is a weird and inexplicable thing to just do for whatever reason. You denying that many women were alarmed by the possibility or likelyhood of you being Max reached your life and your response was to share you ID with Sam as some gesture is telling a story that many of us don't understand but suggests there is so much more than meets the eye when it came to that time period. I don't wish to revisit those details. I am glad that time period is over. It was very stressful for many people getting Max emails, getting attacked by GoodIntentions, etc.
(see you mentioning names & I'm not)
Anyway THAT is why I recommend people could still show their support silently if they so chose to & I fairly stated
"they could like whatever they agreed with" & still keep their privacy.
You know it's one thing to say a girl is flighty, ditzy or you heard she likes a S& M or she's always late, or even you think she's not good looking........... I mean everyone's entitled to their opinion, but to tell everyone (for roughly a year or longer) that I am dangerous?!!
That was truly uncalled for, and as you can plainly see I've met many men & not once has anyone came out to say that I was any kind of danger or put them in any dangerous situation.
There's a name for feeding rumors and spouting out nonsense it called being a hater... & I guess haters...... Are.............gonna........
Hate, (smh)
You should just keep your anger 4 me between the people who don't know me & therefore don't know better,
as you have been......... all this time.
At least I admit I was snarky at times and a few things my old alias said were not needed, you on the other hand seem proud to slander & spew such untrue venom.
How sincere are you in wishing this to end if you're asking for more readers to come and click the "like" buttons on your posts?
-- Modified on 8/18/2015 7:43:14 PM
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