Turk I can see where the board doesnt want to turn into a infomercal but I feel if there are some hot new chickie picks or web site that a guy should share that info with everyone

I'm not sure I understand!!! Ad Policy: Hobbyist Please REad

I am not sure I understand the post Turkana...please elaborate.

I look for other hobbyists to post to this board about providers, new providers, changes, etc.

That is the value of this board.

I do agree that hobbyists shouldn't try to schedule providers, but, I definitely look for information, particularly changes.

Maybe I'm the only one that is confused.  If so, I apologize and you can PM me to discuss.

Any other inputs based on this message....

Thank you

Hangin


-- Modified on 6/17/2004 11:04:53 AM

Turk, I wanted to echo the sentiments of the previous posters and hopefully our comments may filter their way to GND...

I agree that "advertising by proxy" can cause a problem when both a provider and others are posting ad/availability info at the same time and violating the ad frequency policy.

However, I think this is very easy to spot.  For instance, "Miss_MN's" recent posting regarding Alisa Rae obviously counts as an ad.  A while back, Lavalite was posting availability on behalf of Jessica ("Sexy Jess") and it was quite obvious that these were ads.  Likewise, MDL posting that Omega's big-titted biker sister has new pics on her site is obviously NOT advertising.  I've read this board almost every day for quite a few years now, and I can't really think of any cases where the line between ad and hobbyist commentary was so gray that it was a problem.  It always seemed obvious.

Anyway, let me get on my soapbox about board moderation in general.  Both you and SRV have been great about letting out lots of rope, so don't take these comments as being directed at you.  When done well, moderation is done like good officiating in sports...  A really good NBA or NHL ref has a "sense" of when the critical turning points or changes in momentum are occuring during a game, and they become more lenient during those times--just the opposite of what you'd expect.  That is, they try to let the players determine the outcome of critical moments and avoid having an officiating call be what ultimately determines the outcome of the game.

I think a similar style of "scenario dependent" moderation works well on boards like these.  The rules get tightened up when they need to be, and are relaxed when they don't need to be tight.  Let me counter each of several common arguments:

1.  "Traffic volume will get out of control if we don't moderate aggressively" -- This board is rarely so busy that it's hard to sift through the traffic.  This may be a problem in large markets like LA or NY, but not here.

2.  "If we don't strictly enforce the letter of the rules then providers will flood the boards with ads." -- Actually, we have very, very few providers who are still active on this board, especially after the end of the Madison era.  If every provider here posted 3 times the number of ads per week allowed, I'm not certain we'd fill up a page a week with provider ads.

3.  "But rules have to be enforced consistently." -- Why?  We're not talking about HR policies or municipal code here where consistency is required.  How will an inconsistent application of the rules ultimately detract from TER's ability to enhance my hobbying experience?  If a provider decides to run a special and posts it too soon after her previous ad...  TER's paying customers' interests are advanced by leaving that ad up and are eroded by deleting that ad, no matter what the letter of the rules say.  Same goes for pointman reports, reports of new pics, etc.  It seems to me that leash could be doled out until you, or some hobbyists, start to feel like the board is being "commercially abused" by a provider, at which time they're reined in a bit, both by the hobbyist's comments in replies, or by a PM from you.  As a society we are so consumed by the issue of fairness that we try to apply it to every aspect of human interaction and we forget that the free-market/Darwin forces are pretty potent moderators in their own right.

4.  "But it will be anarchy."  (One of my favorite lines from the movie 'The Breakfast Club')  Discussion boards are supposed to be a "soft" anarchy.  Each board has it's own ethos, it's own persona that is nebulous and messy and that's what makes it work.  That voice and attitude that each board has changes over time, as members come and go and different people become more or less vocal on the boards.

I think we need to remember that TER is largely funded by member hobbyists, and thus the final arbiter of every question has to be "does enforcing this rule/deleting this post/moderating this poster ultimately add to the paying hobbyist's enjoyment of the site and the hobby?"  Aside from things like personal data being revealed or flaming, which should always be enforced, I think that simple notion of "advancing the interests of member hobbyists" is a pretty solid rule that is actually easy to judge and enforce...  Violations of that "prime directive" are kind of like that Supreme Court line:  "I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it."

And let me clarify that my saying the board should be driven by pro-hobbyist motives doesn't mean I'm anti-provider by any means.  The hobby as a whole, including the provider's financial interests, are advanced by having a forum that promotes hobbyist involvement and promotes their confidence in participating in the hobby.

Comments please (from hobbyists, staff/mod, and providers!)

Turk

Omega could have not said it any better as to my settaments on your post.

I will also state as many of you know, I do announce when a traveling lady may be comming, or if she has new pictures or website.  Isn't this part of what this board is for.  Communication between Hobbyist and providers for INFORMATION?

I can see if this type of posting gets out of hand as to not turn into an infommercial.  I don't think we are even close to being at that post.  After retruning from LA for the last week and watching their board and threads, they are much more active. So I can see where the GND may have more concerns in a highly active board.

This policy seems to further irritate the PAYING customers of this board to have them hold back on the power of the keyboard.

Yhis board should continue to allow threads of new provider web sites, new pictures, Pointman reports are NOT advertisements but conversational threads for information.

Isn't that the bottom line what this board is all about.  Maybe GND and staff should post the mission statement of this board so we are all on the same page.

PM me if you wish to further discuss this issue.

'Godfather

For the TC board, I like the idea of pointman reports on traveling providers - i.e., no more than two lines, no real detail, but a "thumbs up or thumbs down" evaluation, with a pointer to a review.

I also think it's okay, and doesn't count as an ad, when replying to an inquiry.  Example:  Who gives a good BBBJ?

I do think, however, that a post from a hobbyist from out of the blue that says, "Elmerina is so hot -- you have to check out the special she's running this week" is, essentially, an ad and probably shouldn't go up. The problem is raises is one of where to draw the line; my inclination is this:  if someone's just seen a provider and is posting a review, then a post that points to the review and doesn't specifically mention price, availability or services is probably okay.  Example:  I just saw Elmerina and had a really great time. She's really hot.  For details see my review."   If it's not linked to a review, then we open the door to the floodgates.  What do you think, guys and girls?

Its pretty simple guys.  Without some limits the boards will effectively negate the need for paid ads (for the provider) or paid memberships (for the hobbyist).

I for one appreciate the "heads-up" posts, with a link and brief endorsement.  I can go get the details from the providers web-site or ad and I can do more research on detailed reviews.  It saves me the time to go through all the escort ad sites to see who is new.  I am the type that is always on the hunt for something new.  If I want to see someone I know thats easy.  This site is for sharing information we DON'T each have already.  

I think weekly ad posts are the right balance, with allowance for updates or changes when necessary.  

I think the frequent daily "unsubstantiated" endorsements from guys who just like to dominate the board are overbearing and become a disservice.  It makes you wonder if there is some tit for tat going on between the poster and the provider to create some "buzz".   Substantiated "buzz" is good.  A whole bunch of Noise is not.  

But thats just my opinion