I agree that one should never post in anger or offer insults, that is pointless, however, this is a discussion board, that's what we do, discuss. Silence is not a communication method on a discussion board. Your advice makes some sense, yes, but for instance in the case of our friend Morris, he got folks posting to his thread approvingly and it only led to more threads until yes, the provacative thread appeared and what do we do...agree? disagree? I guess one would not know unless one posted a comment, but I agree with you that it does at times "feed the troll", however if enough respected posters "crush", the troll's post with a razor sharp repartee, they tend to go away for a while, imho. Again, I am NOT defending mean, viscous posts at all, but strong opinions stated clearly and with conviction is a good thing and healthy for any discussion board.!
-- Modified on 8/12/2012 12:44:30 PM
Don't feed the trolls. Your argument, devastating and convincing in your own head, will not silence a troll. Your insults, clever and cutting in your head, will only spur him or her on. Your anger and protestations are fuel, as is your attention.
Don't expend the energy. If you don't want to be bothered by a troll, don't read the posts, don't comment, don't complain. Ignore. Even if you think your rejoinder is a real crusher. It is not. Best to do nothing.
...cliques, the drama, the in-crowd, the jocks, the cheerleaders, the nerds and geeks, the hippies and dopers at the fringes (my long-ago era!!), and more.
And, with some of the bile spewed, including direct insults, it's really more like junior high!
I'm less and less inclined to participate.... Much of the fun and joy are being sucked out of the board. It's been a lively and interesting place--just check out some other regional boards: they're dead zones, where posts a month ago are still on Page One. But, if the Minnesota board ceases to be that interesting and fun place, it will lose its appeal, at least to moi....
-- Modified on 8/12/2012 12:00:17 PM
You have described most of the boards on TER. The only board that seems to have a modicum of respect in the postings is the Over 60s board (and wow do they have great photo threads over there). Anyone looking for a milder posting environment can always try over there (several posters are under 60) or the Newbie board where they try to keep it civilized, all the rest, it's wide open, a wild west shoot out, just as it should be, imho. When people can post without revealing their true identity, we will always see both the best and worst of human nature. It takes a thick skin to post here, that is a fact. But as far as the health of the hobby here in MN? A good indicator is that our M&G filled up right away. I don't think our MN board will turn into a deadzone if those of us here post strongly held opinions and particiapte in a sharp repartee. IMHO the dead zone is a certainty with pablum posts.
I agree that one should never post in anger or offer insults, that is pointless, however, this is a discussion board, that's what we do, discuss. Silence is not a communication method on a discussion board. Your advice makes some sense, yes, but for instance in the case of our friend Morris, he got folks posting to his thread approvingly and it only led to more threads until yes, the provacative thread appeared and what do we do...agree? disagree? I guess one would not know unless one posted a comment, but I agree with you that it does at times "feed the troll", however if enough respected posters "crush", the troll's post with a razor sharp repartee, they tend to go away for a while, imho. Again, I am NOT defending mean, viscous posts at all, but strong opinions stated clearly and with conviction is a good thing and healthy for any discussion board.!
-- Modified on 8/12/2012 12:44:30 PM
And yes, what mnjohnny and oldguy say are valid points. Silence would make this board a wasteland and a place only the trolls would visit to bash whomever is brave enough to post here. A very well placed quip or snipe at a troll works wonders... I wish I had LuckyIrishPricks quick, sarcastic wit. He knows how to put the trolls in their place, as do others here.
Thanks,
BS
a third option. In the 5 plus years I've been around this board and several others, I have never seen either ignoring or crushing trolls actually work. During that time I have happily been and remain a member of other boards that generally don't have a troll problem. These are simply well-moderated boards that first warn and then eliminate trolls.
These well-moderated boards tend to have deeper and more informative discussions. They allow disagreement but they keep it respectful. They just don't put up with insults and name-calling. They also have little use for aliases. In short these boards are much more useful in sharing quality information and in keeping rookies (both guys and gals) out of trouble.
TER discussion boards could be made much more useful if they first had a stated purpose, and second were actively moderated toward that purpose.
....that a well moderated board eliminates trolls, but as much as I don't like trolls, I dislike moderation even more. Moderation=censorship in my view. TER has decided to go the route it has after several experiments with other methods. I for one do not want TER in control of our board, that is, and should be, left to those of us who post here, and yes that means "dealing" with trolls from time to time, imho. TER does deal with those don't abide by the discussion board rules that are in place (even though they seem slow to do it at times).
-- Modified on 8/12/2012 1:48:54 PM
Like it or not, TER is in control of this board. You cannot post about busts and stings, you cannot post a link to any site that has reviews on it, and no matter how important to Minnesotans a meet n greet might be, it will still get moved to the meet n greet board where nobody will notice it.
The problem with trolls is that they suppress good information and discussion even more than a good mod does. Just one example: A few years ago a newbie provider showed up here on TER. She made a couple of rookie mistakes and the self-appointed experts here proceeded to call her names. insult her and insult anyone who urged them to calm down. When she was called a fake and a scammer with no real supporting evidence, the MODS (two of them) did nothing. They even posted in the thread, ignoring the abuse of the rules.
Meanwhile on a well-moderated board (many of us will recall) a parallel discussion was going on. On that board there was no name-calling and a much more nuanced discussion was possible. The result was that several of us met this young lady. Eventually TER reviews were written and it became obvious that the Troll-pile was totally out of line. But that didn't change their behavior.
The problem is, you'll never know how many people have just given up posting here 'cuz it's just not worth it.
Until recently, there was a board that was TOTALLY unmoderated. Over a very short period of time useful information was a blessed sight to see as the hobbyists, & providers that were there to actually foster safety & pleasure in this fine hobby eventually gave up & refrained from posting. Someone has to take the wheel in order to keep the boards fun & safe.
With all due resepct, TER can shut us down, but it won't and yes, there are rules and we expect TER admin to enforce the rules, but control of the content of each post? No way!! Speaking only for myself I don't ever want some unseen and unknown mod controling the subjects and the discussion. The rules known to everyone upfront, ok, but not censorship.
-- Modified on 8/12/2012 9:17:08 PM
If someone posts something that violates the rules then TER will remove the post. So in such a case you already have a moderator changing what is posted. If your sole concern is that a mod would actually edit the content of a post, I am not sure if they have ever done that or if they simply remove the post. Someone else may know for sure if they have ever edited a post.
I too remember the incident with the new provider from a few years ago. It was not a pretty sight as she got reamed for nothing other than being inexperienced and making some rookie mistakes that were pretty harmless (she never NCNS'd anyone or ripped them off in any way). She actually approached becoming an escort in a much more intelligent fashion than just throwing up an ad on BP and waiting for the calls to come and in pretty short order developed a reputation as a first rate escort.
Like Craig, I have been and am a member of boards where the posters are expected to meet certain standards and if they don't they are subject to being warned and even banned should the warnings be ignored. In truth, TER does the same but their standards are a lot lower and behavior that would get people kicked out of these other boards goes on regularly here.
I was responding to CL4 and his post on this thread and another (see the quote). I disagree that TER needs to give this board a stated purpose (beyond what it is) and then be actively moderated toward that purpose. And, yes posts have been changed (edited) in the past. Remember seeing the notes on posts that said they were moderated? Does not happen much these days. The Politics and Religion board is unmoderated and is a free for all yes, but it does work. Free speech is a very messy business that's for sure, but is much better than controlled censorship. Kicking someone off a board for expressing views that are not in the majority or because they are flaming others in their posting so that others may enjoy a more nuanced conversation is PC BS, imho. Don't we already have enough PC in our lives. Please, not on a fuck board.
Link to edited post
Once for name-calling. I did it on purpose, without an alias, and after most everyone had seen it they took it down.
The other time was for the post which follows in its entirety, which was a parody of TER rules. In both cases the posts were deleted without a trace.
"There are some real good reasons to keep review stuff in the review section, but beyond that just remember...
If you want to say something good about a gal, you can't start a thread for that, but you can wait till she posts her weekly ad, and say it there, or you can add it to a thread about her that started negative, but then you'll be called a white knight.
Or if you want to say something bad about a gal, you can't add it to her weekly ad post, but you can start a thread of your own about it or you could add it to an existing post that started negative.
And if you want information about a gal you can make a "411" post, but those are so annoying, but you can't start a 411 post in order to answer your own question using an alias, and thus start a positive thread, because you can't reply to yourself using an alias.
see? simple!"
The board goes in cycles and troll outbreaks are part of that. FWIW, I have seen it far worse in the past. So, my suggestion is don't overreact to this; that is the sort of thing that trolls live for; they enjoy getting people riled up. But at the same time I cannot agree with the ignore them idea. The problem with that is it can easily lead to people thinking that such behavior is not only tolerated but may even represent the way most people on the board think. It is better IMHO to point out the flaws in the posts trolls make without getting into flaming contests with them.
My career as a "troll" has been largely directed at challenging board participants who take it upon themselves to be self appointed "moderators" of the board, and try to dictate what is, or is not, appropriate for discussion.
If you were to look at the history of my alleged "sins," you would see a pattern. I make a statement that is contrary to the "in crowd" and then the fun begins. The ensuing "name calling" is generally directed at me, and often included attacks by people who seem unfamiliar with the original exchange that began the dispute. In addition, I receive threatening PM's that go far beyond anything posted on the board.
There seems to be an ongoing attitude among a number of persons, or groups, that, while WE don't like censorship, or moderation, WE don't mind it so much if WE are doing the moderating.
That is nothing new and is unlikely to change.
There is nothing inherently virtuous about expressing viewpoints that many people disagree with and criticize you for. It's a discussion board; you express your viewpoint and others are free to comment on what you have said. And you know as well as I do that the only people your posts have to pass muster with are the people who run TER.