OK. So we do all the right things:
Hobby name.
Hobby phone.
Hobby e-mail.
Etc., etc.
Nothing linked to our civvie life.
Can LE track our e-mails to a provider they arrest back to our home computer?
Encrypted e mail is tougher. Just never mention explicit details and clean out your in box and outbox regularly. Change hobby emails perodically as well.
It's really hard to prove you sent the emails even if they came from your IP. If it comes to a worst case use your right to remain silent.
Hobby name.
Hobby phone.
Hobby e-mail.
Etc., etc.
Nothing linked to our civvie life.
Can LE track our e-mails to a provider they arrest back to our home computer?
Of course they can but why would they?? I mean really, for a serious felony charge they may invest resources to do so but I highly doubt they would "track e-mails" to your computer for a charge like this. Yes, we live in a digital age where everything can be tracked down; no question about it.
Even if they did, what could you get charged with?? Soliciting through e-mails?? How could they prove it was you sending the e-mails.?? What would you be arrested for??
One has to remember however that an email or visiting a particular website in and of itself is not a crime. Now if you were to write in an email that "baby I will pay you $$$ for a BJ", that could be evidence of an agreement to have sex for money, i.e. you are busted. LE would need to demonstrate that you were the sender of the email and that your email was not somehow hacked.
Even if a provider were to "turn" on you, her testimony, as a party that is equally guilty is insufficient to sustain a conviction. That is why the LE runs stings where a sworn officer is witness to the agreement of sex for $$$. In our recent experience, LE did not bust the chops of a hobbyist exiting her incall to make an arrest, they needed an uncover operative to solicit and witness the agreement.
If the provider in question has maintained a list of real names (see desert divas), it is possible that LE could release the list. This could cause professional embarrassment, loss of employment and divorce. It would not be sufficient to sustain a criminal conviction.
I had an experience where a potential client visited my office. As is normal, I gave the person my business card. It was the first and only time I met this person. I received no less than a dozen calls from people who said he gave my name as a reference. The list itself is meaningless. Whether or not a SO accepts that as an explanation depends on the SO.
Phil Donahue (77) was on the desert divas list. Really? What do you think the chances are that it was an alias of someone else?
None of us is invulnerable. The question is whether they are willing to spend the resources and what result they are likely to get.
... isn't that the shits! ![]()
I'm aware of the hobby phone concept, but I've never really thought about it much. I use my regular phone to set up appointments - quite possibly a bad idea on several fronts (LE, other nefarious reasons). That said, I never say anything on the phone that anyone could argue is illegal. Still, I should probably stop being stupid and get one.
What is everyone's experience? Anyone had an experience where the hobby phone saved their bacon? Any recommendations for a hobby phone?
Go to Walmart or any other big box, get a decent pre-pay phone (pay cash for it) and do the set up using your hobby email. DO NOT use your other phones to do the initialization/set up. You can add minutes anonymously by paying cash practically any place.
Can they still trace it to you? Oh yeah, but like others have said it's typically not worth it for them.
Get a pre-paid Visa, (pay cash) at a location where you won't be recognized.
Buy a $40 annual subscription to a a VPN service (Like CyberGhost VPN).
Buy a $35 annual Hushmail account.
Buy your TER VIP membership.
Destroy you Visa.
Log onto your VPN before logging into Hushmail or TER. Your VPN will mask your IP address as the traffic will all appear to be coming from the VPN server (along with about 30 other people). This email, for example will show it is originating from New York.
Hobby name.
Hobby phone.
Hobby e-mail.
Etc., etc.
Nothing linked to our civvie life.
Can LE track our e-mails to a provider they arrest back to our home computer?
As has already been pointed out, most states and circuits have laws/rules about unwitnessed misdemeanors. If an act is a misdemeanor it normally has to be witnessed by the accuser. Even if your e-mail said "Hey baby, I'll pay you X for a BJ"... and even if they could prove you really did send that email and really did visit that provider the next day, there's not much they can do--it's an unwitnessed misdemeanor.
I can go to the police department tomorrow and say "I am confessing, I ran a red light last week" and give them the details, and they STILL cannot charge me. Even when there is no question that I committed the act, it is a misdemeanor and in most jurisdictions, they can't charge me because it was unwitnessed. Therein lies the legal problem with traffic enforcement cameras. In Minnesota, there are only a few exceptions to the unwitnessed misdemeanor rules... For instance, school bus drivers can swear out a complaint for a driver passing an extended stop arm because a state law was specifically passed to allow this. If a store owner arrests you for shoplifting, the store owner, and NOT a police officer, must actually sign the complaint, because they witnessed the act.
The same is true here. If your emails are on a hard drive of an exploited, minor, or non-consensual provider whose PC gets impounded... That's a felony and you can be charged without the act actually being witnessed. But on a consensual adult provider's PC, the game plan changes. The goal is not to convict you, or even charge you... the goal is to OUT you. What they need in order to do this is your name and number on her hard drive, not a detailed history of IP addresses and web servers.
Just saw the media on this. I cringed for this lady when I saw Fox 9 standing in front of her home and talking to her neighbors. Then, mentioning her children.
They did the same with the local coach just caught in a sting, showing his home with an eviction notice on the door.
I read here that when Desert Diva's list came out there were 5 suicides from the outings of clients.
A local man committed suicide awhile back after blackmailers theatened to out him to his family.
I don't come here too often anymore. I'm just an onlooker for the reasons above. I've seen too many lives ruined from this. It's just not worth it.
maybe they should rethink how they spend their leisure time and money. Suicide for this reason is indeed weak, regardless of how they were outed, IMHO.
I read here that when Desert Diva's list came out there were 5 suicides from the outings of clients.
A local man committed suicide awhile back after blackmailers theatened to out him to his family.
I've seen too many lives ruined from this. It's just not worth it.
All the more reason to have a hobby phone and hobby e-mail. However like most have said, even if you did say this is my e-mail or this is my phone, proving you sent messages is for the most part impossible.
I can go to the police department tomorrow and say "I am confessing, I ran a red light last week" and give them the details, and they STILL cannot charge me. Even when there is no question that I committed the act, it is a misdemeanor and in most jurisdictions, they can't charge me because it was unwitnessed. Therein lies the legal problem with traffic enforcement cameras. In Minnesota, there are only a few exceptions to the unwitnessed misdemeanor rules... For instance, school bus drivers can swear out a complaint for a driver passing an extended stop arm because a state law was specifically passed to allow this. If a store owner arrests you for shoplifting, the store owner, and NOT a police officer, must actually sign the complaint, because they witnessed the act.
The same is true here. If your emails are on a hard drive of an exploited, minor, or non-consensual provider whose PC gets impounded... That's a felony and you can be charged without the act actually being witnessed. But on a consensual adult provider's PC, the game plan changes. The goal is not to convict you, or even charge you... the goal is to OUT you. What they need in order to do this is your name and number on her hard drive, not a detailed history of IP addresses and web servers.
after the big splash of news, how much damage was done to any? a news story only lasts so long, there is the fear of damage and then there is damage. hopefully after the story has had its 15 minutes of fame, it will fade. hopefully. I was not into her, thankfully.
And nothing ever came from the FP "bust". No convection,fines or jail time. Tiger still hasn't gotten her stuff back from the cops though.
There are a number of well known hobbyists who disappeared after that. Who knows why. LE or just personal embarassment. Perhaps they've resurfaced with new handles. Remember TheZee?
Before anyone knew if they also might have a problem and so we don't really have a way of knowing if they had a problem or just did so as a precaution. FWIW I've not heard of anyone being arrested or outed because of the MFP bust. Also remember that the MN Nice Guys bust happened right around the same time and a fair number of guys besides the ring leader were arrested, charged, and convicted. I don't know for sure but I think many of them were also on MFP. That muddies the waters quite a bit trying to figure out cause and effect among the members of each group.