Would someone please explain to me how these reports are acceptable here on the TC boards according to the TER guidelines? It seems to me that similar pointman type of posts on the LA and NY boards have been discouraged and removed. I searched back and could not find much regarding this. Thank you.

It would take someone with a position in TER to give you an official answer.  For my part, I can see the value in them for the following reasons
1) As others have pointed out before, they are very useful for getting info out about a lady who may only be in town for a few days and who may well be gone by the time a review is posted.  You could argue that hobbyists can and should go look at the reviews from the provider's home territory but even so there is something to be said for getting a quick head's up from someone with a local perspective.
2) It's a quick and easy way to get some initial information out about a new lady or about significant changes regarding an established provider.  Reviews take a couple of days to post typically and that's after the hobbyist has found the time to write one.  There have been times when it has taken me a couple of weeks to get around to writing a full blown review.
3)  I don't necessarily see that every discussion board has to be run the same exact way.  Let this board see what works best for it's participants.  Perhaps the concept of pointman reports needs some refinement but it may well be an idea whose time has come.

Vorlon is correct.  Pointman reports provide information about a traveling provider while she is in town and before a review gets posted.  They do not replace a review, but simply provide some information during the time that a review is not available.  More information is better -- better for the provider, better for the hobbyist.  So long as the pointman report is brief (i.e.,  no more than a couple of lines), it serves this limited purpose. If a provider does not want to be subject to a pointman report, she should say so, just as some providers don't like to be reviewed.  

If you have a substantive objection to pointman reports, what is it?

If the mod feels the post is an ad I have seen it removed in
some cases.

fr

Perhaps the objection is to the pointmen, not the pointmen reports?  

These reports are invaluable to the local hobbyist and can generate a lot of great business for the providers. I for one have seen a lot of great ladies that I never would have tried without the heads up of a local trusted hobbyist.  

Turk

Thanks for your support of these Pointman reports.  Obviously some providers are not comfortable with these.  

Vorlon has said is very well.  These reports are not intended to hurt the provider but give an early report on the lady that may not have any reviews or track record.  No one likes to TOFTT too many times. I for one fel these are very benifical to the hobbyist and can also be benefical to the providers.  As a whole it hold some level of accountability to the provider to not be a bait/switch or that may have other issues.

Curious to know why NM has such an issue with these reports when she is primarily form the LA board.

I would be interested to know from LOCAL providers their thoughts on this.  I know a few traveling agenices that do NOT have issues with these, but welcome them.

Although any individual post taken in isolation may be ok as
far as moderation is concerned, I think the overall tone of
the board is an issue.

Any suggestions on how to improve this would be appreciated.
Come on lurkers - I know you're out there.

fr

-- Modified on 8/9/2004 9:20:44 AM

So frankie, what do YOU consider "a larger issue: on this board?

You on on many of the boards across the country, you of all people should know that each board operates a little different and has it ownb quirks about it.

With any group, be it  online or off line.  There will always be activity levels ranging from lurkers to highly active.

I'm not sure I see an issue on these discussion boards at all.  The main issue I see, is the fact that the rating critereon is too subjective.  I mean that many girls can't have that many inconsistent days, attitudes, extras, etc.  Sure, some hobbyists standards might be different from someone elses, and thus he would rate someone a 4 instead of a 6.

But I've seen nasty terms used  (smelly, dirty, etc.) along with 7's and 8's.  I've also seen what would otherwise be a 6 to 8 in looks, go to a 3 because the guy didn't like the way she was dressed.

I don't know how to fix the rating system... and it obviously is better than having nothing.  At least you get to read over reviews, and if the majority of them fit what you are looking for, then you know you might want to try out that provider.  But the ratings still don't really seem to fit in many cases.

We also need to define GFE more strongly.

GFE shouldn't have to be dressed to the nines for a typical "girl-friend" experience.

Perhaps a new term.  FGFE (Fantasy Girl Friend Experience) where those of us who are massoginistic can expect our girl friend to always gussy up for an evening out with us.

I think you might be oversimplifying something that's much, much deeper and more complex.  The problem isn't the tone of the board, it's the overall tone of the local hobby scene, and the board is only a symptom of that.

Frankie, you and I had a rather vocal disagreement recently, so I'm concerned you'll take this the wrong way, but...  Our environment here in the Twin Cities is pretty complex.  It's easy to take a peek at the board and quickly sum up the problems...  But the people and the situations go back years...  And while sometimes outsiders bring a needed objective perspective, it's almost always the other way around, that is, out-of-towners who feel compelled to comment on local dynamics create more tension and division, not less.  Many of us have been here for years and have weathered a lot of gradual but significant sea-changes in our hobby scene, and have a perspective that can only be obtained by living it, not passing by it.  Again, no slam is intended so I hope you don't take it that way.

I travel to a couple of other cities regularly and have gotten to know their hobby scenes almost as well as I know ours...  And none of those cities have the same problems (and consequently, the same sense of division) that we have here in MN...  Not even close.

For me, the problems we have here are fairly obvious.  I was tempted to write a fairly long, detailed analysis of what I think the local problems are...  They're actually pretty easy to understand once they're spelled out.  But I've resisted because I just don't need the heat.  My hobbyist friends would hate me for what I'd say about hobbyists, and my provider friends would hate me for what I said about provider's contributions.

But here's a synopsis, which I think most of you, providers and hobbyists alike, would agree is a pretty fair, balanced snapshot of MN if you've been around 5 or more years:

2000: Internet-based hobbying really comes of age, almost all hobbying is with a moderate number of local providers.  TBD becomes the predominant board in TC, TER is barely known.

2001--The Balkanization: Provider cliques start to form, and girl spats online become fairly common.  TBD erupts in all manner of controversy, mostly having to do with providers, not hobbyists...  but the cliques and the explosions put hobbyists in the difficult spot of being on one side or the other.  Mass migration to TER takes place.  MGC, last of the bigger, traditional local agencies is busted...  outwardly attributed to a couple of loud-mouthed hobbyists that were busted on their way out and talked, but there has always been strongly-held suspicions that a well-known local provider was involved in either starting the turmoil or at least fanning the flames.  By the end of 2001, it has become almost impossible to get local references because of the tension between the girls. (Remember those days?)

2002--The invasion:  Almost overnight, the "going rate" in the TCs goes from 200 to 250 to 300, seems like it was a matter of weeks, although it was actually a little slower than than that.  (Please, I'm not the least bit interested in starting another price flame war here)  Because of the price jump and the reference troubles, business with travelers skyrockets over the winter of 2001-2002...  Literally a 2 or 3-fold increase in the number of agency travelers in just a few months, as the Florida agencies start to have serious traction in MN for the first time.  This, of course, increases tensions.  A rash of traveler busts in 2002 are conjectured by some to be the work of angry local providers.  (I suspect that this is not true, that this was simply about the time LE started meeting with hotels in Bloomington and Woodbury to enlist their help in identifying provider traffic and encouraging its reporting.)  All the struggles of the local hobby start to form a sense of at least some solidarity between hobbyists, potentially creating what looks like a "girl's team" and a "boy's team."

2003-2004:  Most of the provider clique thing has smoothed over.  The "girl's team's" back channel becomes pretty powerful, and some of the more active hobbyists (me included) are concerned about how much info on local hobbyists is being kept and exchanged even between "opposing" provider cliques.   Then...  The "Madison Episode" explodes when a well-known, super-TER-active local accidently pastes a hobbyist's phone number in a TER post and is banned.  Again, division, choosing of sides, finger-pointing...  Her clique of very-active TER providers "makes the jump" back to TBD.  Another price hike starts in mid-2004 as most new, unproven "limited service" providers are now coming in at 300 and most FS/GFE newbies are leap-frogging the proven locals by going right to 350-400 out of the gate.

I'm not trying to reignite or re-hash any of this.  (and I hope those of you who've been around a few years will agree that this has been a pretty fair synopsis of the past few years.)  I'm just trying to illustrate that our situation here is complicated...  Way too complicated to analyze by just stopping by over the last few months.  Way too complicated to be summed up by those who were only attracted here by one recent event.  Way too complicated to be attributed just to the tone on TER...  the problems are much, much deeper than that.  And honestly, the problems won't be, and can't be, solved by outsiders no matter how good their intentions.  And there sre some things, like so-called "pointman reports" that have been discussed openly several times in the past and the consensus of opinion was overwhelmingly in favor.  That's a perspective you can't get by joining the debate on page 179 of our board's 180-page history.

Again, I hope no one has taken any offense with anything I've said...  Nothing I've said here has been meant to be a jab at Frankie or anyone else.

So let me try this angle of thinking with the group: if I can have a pointman report here in TC it seems crazy that I can't have one in every touring city that I go to. Every touring provider would like some free advertising. The benefits are obvious. As a traveling provider I have been to your city twice, and have not benefited from this, as most of my business is by word of mouth, back channeling or reviews, and of course publicity out of my domain: bad or good. Most of the gentlemen that I see don't write reviews. What happens in the bedroom stays there, I don't object.


As a member of TER I have to post every so often within a certain cycle of days for my touring schedule. Otherwise I get moderated. Having added input is more lucrative and informational... So tell me where I sign up if this is acceptable, or should I just slip a tip or toll pass to someone? Hmmm?  I am expanding my advertising and the cost is astronomical. If there are free ads being posted, then I want a part of it. That’s all.

someone on the west coast and someone on the east coast are so worried about are little itty bitty board. Would you not get a little more sophistication if you were to stir-up trouble in oh, let's say LA or NY???

I get what NetMichelle is saying ... but Michelle you are beating a dead horse.. the POINTMEN only comment on a certain type.. and so if you are not that type then you might as well forget the FREEBIE AD.

So Michelle.. I am going to write you a private email.. have I got a deal for you.. so look for my name in the RE address so you don't miss it.. The Twin Cities have great guys and the Pointmen are not representative.. they are only MORE VOCAL and PROLIFIC in WRITING.  Many, MANY, and MORE MANY have voiced that they don't post, they enjoy reading but get concerned with how much detail is posted..  I hope you give the Twin Cities another shot and that your experience is a better one than before..

I cause a ripple in the pond wherever I go. East coast, West coast--- but I love the country bumpkins the best.

Sorry, I have to drop the May West routine; I can't keep a straight face.

If I irritate you this much,  trust me:  I am way more satisfying between the sheets. But don't ask me, check the reviews. Or just book me on blind faith.


BTW: Is "Peachs" possesive or plural? I am so confused. Maybe I am having a blond moment. Maybe I need to reformat my GPS for your longitude?

Forgive me father for I have sinned, and will sin again. Mea Culpa.

LOL. Peace bro.

xoxoxo

Michelle.. can you post your email address.. I couldn't find it.. I want to email you .. not thru ter.. no membership

I had no idea just how complex the history of all this has been the past few years and I'm sure you just scratched the surface.

It is tough to convey all the emotions and everything that goes with all that you have written, but you have certainly covered all the basics since about the time I started reading the boards.  

The levels of animosity and just flat out hatred sometimes on these boards, no matter who is involved, has always amazed me.  Perhaps it is easier because it is virtually anonymous, or there is little to no threat of actual retribution, but I can't imagine many of the people carrying out in real life the way they portray themselves in this forum.  

My biggest disappointment has been watching the providers turn against each other, when really the main goal should be for them all to work together to promote safety and well-being among everyone who works in this highly dangerous business.  Petty differences should have been set aside long ago, but they have no grown past the point of no return, I am afraid, as ego and pride have long since been factored into the equation ahead of reason.

The backstabbing, whining, and general lack of trust seem to belong a lot more on an episode of the Sopranos than in a forum that is supposed to be about fun, pleasure, and a fairly nice income for the ladies that frequent here.  

Netty,

I agree and disagree.  Despite your headaches here (and let me say publicly AGAIN how disappointed I was by that, guys) you are a nationally known provider with plenty of reviews.

When the pointman thing first started, I was very much in favor of it in principle.  What has made me steer clear of the pointman thing more recently was that it has become too widespread...

Just like has been discussed, it was supposed to be a quick "heads up" for when a better-known local hobbyist saw a relatively unkown provider whose availability was limited, either because they were only in town a few days or because it was a new local with onkly limited incall availability.  The thinking was that these providers were often gone before a review was posted, and that's no good for anyone, providers or hobbyists.

BUT, and this is a big "but", it has generalized out to include just about anyone, and I think it is this issue that creates the feeling of it being unfair.  Many pointman reports are being offered on providers whose history and reputation are well known.

I've seen Netty and she DEFINITELY has my seal of approval, I would be the first to post a bright red, blinking, pointman report.  All caps baby.  But, my feeling was that these reports were supposed to be isolated specifically to those providers that didn't have a credible review history, and Michelle's is both credible and historic.

Omega:

What about the situation where something significant has changed with a provider?  Do you not think a pointman report is useful in such a situation?  Also, what about when a provider whose history is not local first shows up, whether it's a trip or a "permanent move?"  I think a pointman report, giving a local perspective on the lady, could definitely value.

[email protected]

I don't open attachments.

But Frankie, you're doin' it...  You're doing exactly what you said we shouldn't be doing.

Just a few posts ago you were trying to take the "high road" with an ambassadorial post about how the tone on this board is too harsh.

And here we are, moments later, and you're down on the low road, gettin' in to it.

If you really want to know what's wrong with the Twin Cities board, all you have to do is look at this one thread.  For whatever reason, people (yourself included), even when they're on the high road, don't feel any sense of obligation to stay on it.

And I don't mean to draw a we/they line, but the fact that you're not local makes your post a drive-by shooting, and that just makes it worse.  I don't always agree with Peachs...  in fact, i often disagree.  And sometimes he, like others here, comes across as a bit blunt on the boards.  But he's here...  He's livin' it, particpating in it, takes the hobby seriously, and best of all, has a reputation of putting a lot of thoughtfulness and preperation into his meetings with providers.  What else could you ask of him, whether you like him or not?

Frankie, you gotta have a heart-to-heart with yourself and decide if you really want to be part of the solution, or just be part of the problem.  Doing both is easy...  Hell, we got a zillion guys right here in river city to go low, we don't need your help with that.  It's committing to one or the other that's a real bitch, here on the boards as it is in life.  But people doing both IS the problem with the TC board.

Of course you could just be too sensitive, and he could have been kidding.  Why do people immediately assume the worst/flame when it isn't obvious?  Stop taking yourselves so seriously, and everything will be cool man.

I s'pose it's bad form to reply to one's own post, but...

Re-reading it makes me feel like my post is too one-sided, it makes it sound like "provider issues" have been the sole cause of whatever challenges we've had...  And that certainly isn't true, we've had lots of guys come and go on this board over the years that were divisive, sometimes intentionally, sometimes accidently.

The only point I was trying to make is that problems run way deeper than just a little angst on the board...  And those problems can't be solved by simply acknowledging them or restating them.

I'm a CEO of a corporation, and when I call Accenture and ask for help identifying a problem, they have a hundred guys they can send right over, that same afternoon.  But when I call them and say "I know what the problem is, now I need some guys who know how to fix it," then, all the sudden, the line outside my door starts to get pretty thin.

That's what we need...  We don't need people, locally or from the outside, helping us realize we have a problem.  We don't need help restating the problem to make sure we have it properly defined.  What we need is for people to propose real, workable solutions...  And people that won't just propose solutions but make the personal commitment to be part of them.

people must be informed and entertained or they would quit reading this board!!!!!

I agree with your "lighten up" motif in principle, but, let me say a couple of things.

1.  I DO assume he was kidding.  But that doesn't help.  My point was that you can't be Henry Kissinger on Monday and a back-slapping huckster on Tuesday.  If you're going to challenge people to rise above the sophomoric, you have to rise above the sophomoric yourself, joking or not.

2.  I'm not big on flaming, I go to great lengths (painfully so for some of you!) to state my case objectively and avoid personal jabs.  I'm not sure what I may have said in my reply that was a flame.

3.  For some of us, this IS serious business.  For some providers, this is just a little fun, but for other's, it's their livlihood.  For some hobbyists, it's a little "gettin bizy wid it" now and then, and for others, this has become an important part of our lifestyle that we take seriously.  I never liked the words "hobby" or "hobbyist" because for a lot of us, myself included, the experiences I've had are worth way more than that implies.

On a completely unrelated subject....TER needs a spell check option, PLEASE!....YMMV

I haven't seen cat fights in here for a long time.  I think it's the guys who are doing most of the bash and runs.  LOL

As far as the ladies who get along and don't.  I don't see that here either.  I think the board has matured enough as a community that those who post nasty about their competition get harassed in turn.  Not much anyone can do about someone who isn't good in a competitive market or someone who's got emotional issues, but deal with them when they misbehave.    

I doubt you'll see any providers promoting unsafe practices.  I guess it depends upon what you feel is unsafe and if it's any of your business what others do in the first place.  I hear the rumors, so what.  I can't control what others do behind closed doors.  I'm also pretty certain everyone here has a grasp on what safe sex is.  It's up to them to keep their heads on straight.

If someone is going to be telling me what to do with my body, it better be fun.  If you're going to preach to me, please go over to another board where I have no inclination to visit so I don't have to read it.  

A question about safe sex, great topic.  Telling everyone to get tested because 2 women might have cold sores.  At least that's what the poster heard from her very reliable source LOL  That crap doesn't belong in print.

It's your board as I'd said before.  The guys are the ones out of hand bashing each other LOL  You need a PP Sqaud.  Polite Police for those wondering.

Yes, there have been and will continue to be guys who think they gain from being the most well known.  I think it works against them

xoxo
Misty

I know of no one that is more concerned & conscientious when it comes to health issues than Misty.  Many could benefit from your example of being an  honest,informed, voice of reason. Thanks Misty.