If she notices it, shares it, even if she laughs, it is not nothing.
Sometimes laughter and tears are very close neighbors. And somehow it must be that you are sweet and what an honor she did share it with you... and how fortunate to share in the presence of you that is sweet.I understand that I’ve been named as the abuser discussed in the thread below. I want to respond in a spirit of transparency, honesty and good faith.
I’ve been hobbying for nearly 50 years; my focus with a provider is to achieve attunement: by that, I mean the natural willing tendencies of both partners, in a mutual concert of action. The provider’s limits and preferences are paramount. Hopefully, this results in a hot session; you can read my reviews if you want to know more.
Yes, I am dominant and enjoy BDSM with willing and fully informed participants with whom I can attune on that level, with mutual consent. That means discussing what I would like to do beforehand and respecting limits. I have never knowingly crossed any lines there.
No provider has ever complained to me about abuse. I have never hit, beat or abused anyone. I’ve seen perhaps 10 providers in the last year and done dominance with three. One was a provider who specializes in submission; she knows what she's doing and there's no issue there. With the second, I have had two GFE sessions with her since we played with BDSM, and I’ve been invited back; I have confirmed with the third that all was consensual, and she will see me again. In fact, she tells me that she was named as one of the “victims” and that not only is there no substance to the charge, but she never communicated with anyone about me. In other words, the claim of abuse was totally fabricated.
If you are a provider who has seen me, and feel that I have crossed any lines,, then pm me and let’s work it out. If I’ve legitimately hurt someone, then I’ll man up, acknowledge it, and make amends.
I am distressed that the thread on this subject degenerated into second-guesses, rumor, innuendo and perhaps the greatest mis-use of aliases I’ve seen on the boards. I have been threatened with bodily harm painted as an animal and psychopath by people who’ve never met me, based on second or third hand information that contains no specifics. The thread below contains not a single first-hand account, even offered by an alias. And as noted, at least one of these claims was based on NO evidence. Did anyone trouble to read my posts or reviews? Did anyone recall that I was the guy that asked hobbyists to ante up for the provider with botched surgery? That less than 10 days ago I advocated for boundaries in the hobby instead of romance? There’s reasons why our system of justice presumes innocence. There’s a reason it requires that the victim confront the perpetrator and the perpetrator be given a fair day in court. I feel that I’ve been lynched by a mob.
Abuse and misogyny in the hobby are serious issues. They arise most frequently in petty, but significant ways: guys who persistently seek bareback (watch the doggie, girls!); or bbbj from cbj providers; shorting the envelope; running the clock; and bad hygiene. I’ve never done any of that.
There is no place in this hobby for abuse or non-consensual activity of any kind. I have always subscribed to, and practiced this view. Abusers should not be tolerated, and I stand by the post I made below on this subject.
The original post asked what the community should do with claims of abuse. At least one lesson is that serious charges like this should not turn into a witch hunt.
I’m away from my computer all day, so won’t be responding, if called for, until this evening.
Have fun! Play safe!
P
Pollenbroker has bared his soul, and if he is being truthful (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) this scenario represents a very sad misuse of our board and of aliases.
On the other hand, if (sorry Pollenbroker), he is misrepresenting the facts, then the providers who have accused him, either openly on the board or on backchannels should step up in a similar manner and tell their story. I fear that no providers with first hand knowledge will step up, out of fear or because they have misrepresent facts, and either way our little community is not served.
This is an important issue and now that we have firsthand testimony there will be a trial of public opinion.
For people with involvement in this issue, crickets are not acceptable. Apologies or refuting testimony are the only proper responses
On the other hand, if (sorry Pollenbroker), he is misrepresenting the facts, then the providers who have accused him, either openly on the board or on backchannels should step up in a similar manner and tell their story. I fear that no providers with first hand knowledge will step up, out of fear or because they have misrepresent facts, and either way our little community is not served.
This is an important issue and now that we have firsthand testimony there will be a trial of public opinion.
For people with involvement in this issue, crickets are not acceptable. Apologies or refuting testimony are the only proper responses.
We need to hear their side of the story, whether it is to confirm Pollenbroker's account or that of the accusations made against him.
not some guy pretending to be one. 
Do you really think they will come out in a public forum? I think that they will take care of business behind the scenes- IMO
This is not a new problem in this community and a lot of the providers already knew about the issue in question. They probably will continue back channel as most are too afraid of publicly outing anyone. This was because the providers are sometimes too worried about their reputation or scores to say anything publicly. Note this was outed and brought to the board by a hobbyist not a provider.
We as this board are not in a position to find guilt or innocents, that will be left to each provider as they are checking his references and making their decision to see him.
True colors are definitely showing. Really hard to believe ANYTHING said on this board but attitudes are pretty transparent.
.. I'm new and all but my guess is that it will take some time for dialogue behind the scenes to happen to suss out the stories, corroborations and come to an understanding of what happened and what is happening. At least this is true for me and I have a very busy day like many us do.
Truth is worth the journey no matter how hard to uncover and face.
Beauty can come out of the ugliest of things. This is one hot mess and may we have patience.
Blessings and Peace for everyone, no exceptions
I personally have a great fear of being falsely accused of something and can't imagine what he is going through right now. Having this just hang out there would kill me if I were him. Having this solved behind the scenes doesn't erase this public exposure.
If indeed there is another side to the story and fear of retribution is preventing them from coming forward then maybe a third party (Vorlon comes to mind) could act as a clearing house.
A man's reputation is at risk here. Apologies or alternative versions are the only solution.
A lot of talk about how important of an issue this is, and I can't agree more. Unfortunately I don't know anything that can shed any light on this or I would. If someone can shed light and doesn't ,it means it's not that big of an issue to them.
At this stage of the game, I feel kind of sorry for the original OP (amourtouche) on this issue, even though he was being devious in his approach, I think he might have be coached to do something on a rumor or an innuendo
So you want to have a trial on a semi public P4P forum? Dude, it's not going to happen as this is a court of public opinion not a court of law. If you have a great fear of being falsely accused of something don't do anything that will leave marks, don't short providers, don't NCNS. the providers know your reputation before they choose to see you or anyone else. This is only their choice and concern.
Again this is not a new or unknown to the provider community issue.
If indeed there is another side to the story and fear of retribution is preventing them from coming forward then maybe a third party (Vorlon comes to mind) could act as a clearing house.
A man's reputation is at risk here. Apologies or alternative versions are the only solution.
A lot of talk about how important of an issue this is, and I can't agree more. Unfortunately I don't know anything that can shed any light on this or I would. If someone can shed light and doesn't ,it means it's not that big of an issue to them.
At this stage of the game, I feel kind of sorry for the original OP (amourtouche) on this issue, even though he was being devious in his approach, I think he might have be coached to do something on a rumor or an innuendo.
I have seen Pollenbroker before and I can vouch that he has always been kind, respectful, and nothing but a gentleman. If others have issues then I haven't heard it directly from them, and would appreciate a PM from someone who has had FIRSTHAND experience. Until then my opinion will remain as stated. Hopefully all this gets sorted out.
spell..... COW-E-I-E-I-
Many times I think people here just enjoy stirring the pot. Making baseless accusations on providers and hobbyists alike and just generating drama.
Glad you came out Pollen and also that Casey came to back you up.
Sometimes just seems like High School here with all the drama people like to create. It's probably all the DIY BS in this town. Might as well find some excitement somewhere.
does not mean he was not the Big Bad Wolf with another lady
I was told in a PM that Pollenbroker was the guilty party, and my"source" did name one of the "victims"....... Who had just happened to go UTR just as we were trying to find a workable day to meet. Suspicious? Of course.....so I did the obvious....I contacted her. Turns out she was fine, her UTR situation is hers to know alone, and she was in perfect health, mind,body, and soul. Age has taught me a few things, one of them being to get all sides of the story. I did as best I could....she is fine, he did not hurt her in any way. I agree with the above opinions.....innocent until guilty. We do need the victims to help us. With no victims, sadly, there is no crime. We are adults, let's ALL act as adults.....for the sake of all.
...that she wasn't under duress and was speaking truthfully? That's good to know. So, she is accepting phone calls it seems?
She shared her viewpoint based on her experience and also said she was open to hearing directly from those with firsthand experience. Seems like a reasonable position to me.
I was simply stating a fact. I have absolutely nothing against Casey. I am sure she is a wonderful lady.
However, by publicly supporting him, she is in essence discounting those women who were victimized. That is the exact reason ladies do not report offensive hobbyists.
Anyone who believes that a lady who was victimized would face her abuser and acknowledge what he did to her on a hobby board meant for men, run by men, and where men rule is not looking at reality. There is an uneven balance of power here. No lady whose financial livelihood depends upon TER and the hobby would take that chance.
I do not believe any lady victimized by a hobbyist would wish to talk to a person who publicly supported her abuser. If you do, you are living in la la land
.... until he went very bad on 2 back-to-back.
I am not discounting anyone's opinion or experience. I've asked to hear FIRSTHAND accounts, by PM, from ladies who have personal negative experiences with Pollenbroker. So far none have come forward to me. Why should I not voice an opinion supporting someone who I've met, come to know and like, and respect?
I suggest you look up the definition of hearsay. In case you don't, here it is: 1) second-hand evidence in which the witness is not telling what he/she knows personally, but what others have said to him/her. 2) a common objection made by the opposing lawyer to testimony, when it appears the witness has violated the hearsay rule. 3) scuttlebutt or gossip.
I see no reason he should have to suffer serious accusations with literally no evidence backing them. If it were anyone I knew-- anyone at all, male or female-- I would still defend them until there was a reason not to. When someone presents evidence to me I will surely re-think my opinion.
Also, re: your comment about ladies not being willing to talk to someone 'who publically supports' their abuser: why wouldn't they? If they cared about the safety of other women (which they supposedly do) I'd say I'd be in terrible danger for supporting someone they KNEW was an abuser. To not share that information seems irresponsible to me. If that's living in lala land, or whatever, then that's just sad.
-- Modified on 8/28/2013 10:43:53 PM
...you or your history. I sense this is BS from you however. Maybe I am wrong. I have dealt with abusive personalities and there is a Jekyll and Hyde aspect to them. To cover they typically over explain in grand eloquent speech and fake contrition.
I hope I am wrong.
...if you are telling the truth. I have dealt with many abusive people over the years and they possess a Jekyll & Hyde personality. I had a grandfather with this personality type. He was very nice to many, but abusive to a few. He had many defenders because of his sweet demeanor. He would defend his actions with grand eloquent speech and fake contrition. The few were then called liars, misunderstanding or evil depending on how deep in the sh!t he was.
Your explanation here resembles what he would do and say if in the same spot. I hope I am wrong about this.
However unfair this seems, there has to be a history to even be considered/suspected.
As with most of the interested parties here, I don't have first hand knowledge of anything that has been done here.
Was a third party over reacting or did Pollen "cross the line"?
I am no expert on S&M but it would seem obvious that the person suffering harm would be the sub, and Pollen has admitted to being a dom. He is whitelisted by a provider he reviewed that is an S&M (sub) provider (this would be perfect for a predator's credibility.........or an innocent person's). He mentions S&M in one other review where his GF was the sub. I am sure we won't hear from her. He doesn't write many reviews for someone with his claimed hobby experience, but that proves nothing.
When Jerry Sandusky was finally caught, some of his victims spoke out. This was a guy who functioned with children and mentored many, but was able to identify the ones to abuse who wouldn't come forward on their own. He was outed by a third party.
I must say that it is time for anyone Pollen "crossed the line" with to speak up.
If he did in fact cross the line, he most likely doesn't believe he did, or doesn't care.
I certainly don't think anyone will "blame the victim" here because this is a "mans" discussion board.
This has been very disturbing, hopefully the problem will be resolved soon.
Peace
his is fiction. My imagination runs wild. I am blind. In the dark I dream of terrors and the very worst case of scenarios.
What follows is the imagination of mine running what is my version of a worst case scenario.
I title the following: SEQUENCE & FREE ASSOCIATION PRACTICE OF BEING IN THE DARKNESS
I read of a 2 weeks absence for a personal life occurrence and an inability to answer email for these two weeks by a provider named Vivy Hart and she, later I learn, is Pollen's sub (or was/is... what do I know... I just hear stuff).
In sequence... next thread about "outing" someone or not?
Back to Vivy just in the previous thread of math of two weeks out and unreachable because of personal matters. Personal matters swim in my mind: a while long enough to recover from bruises.
Feeling my way in the dark here I know
Someone is lying. There is that darkness too. Who is lying? I don't like being lied to. Maybe something isn't my business but don't lie to me. Strangers, don't lie to me.
And I wonder more:
Does this Story have ANYTHING to do with the Previous Vivy Hart Story? Are they linked? One comes smack up against the other. How hard a smack? Is this one bruising?
I am in a double darkness of lies and blindness. Someone is lying. I am blind. Secrets are happening while in this dark space something doesn't smell right.
The imagination runs towards terrors... it is made to imagine anything. Is it true? It might be or it might not be.
I remember in this sequence early reading Vivy Hart and feeling something isn't right. I don't know her, of course. But I know I can't email her and ask: a triple darkness... she just happened to be gone and then comes out all this smacking into TER! Pollenbrokers sub just happens to be gone and silent and away and not reading any emails leaving everyone in the dark.
Imagination can't help itself but to wonder. Even in the darkness the nose knows something is just plain off about her departure.
Does it take about two weeks to recover from bruises? Imagination runs here now, naturally. What else would take one away for two weeks of any comment? A death in the family? No, not usually. Shame? Oh, yes, that can take weeks, months, years and suicide. My mind runs to people who run to suicide with all their secrets. Imagination sees the worst... the very worst.
Am I stirring and causing a problem by wondering out loud?
The imagination gets worse from here.... whether this is so baseless or not is it wrong to wonder? Wrong to imagine? I can't help but imagine and keep imagining.
I wonder... was she silenced never to tell and then others come forward finally saying enough already!! Is that what happened?
I don't know. Maybe bruises are OK for subs when they know they're coming. But what if they don't know the bruises are coming? What if they didn't agree to that? Wait, is it ok to agree to bruises? For some? I don't understand. Yet another darkness I am in, again. Quadruple darkness at least! Is it ok to give or get bruises with consent? How about without consent but only if you're a sub? Is a sub less than? Is a sub worth less than the Dom? What if a Dom can give bruises with or without asking first but just deciding on his own or attuning on his own? Or is it ok if he or she as a Dom doesn't realize bruising is about to come? Who's in charge here? Who is the one taking responsibility?
How much damage is there and on what levels when without permission bruises appear and take days and days, a week, or two? A lifetime? A driven to death time?
In all these questions I know I could never be a sub. Someone tried it on me once and in two minutes I found my wildness and really understood why wild big cats turn on their masters. In two minutes I was thirsty for blood. I guess the masters/doms in charge until the wildness of a subs heart unleashes. Unleash dear heart.
Vavoom Vivy Vavoom in your heart. I imagine a vavoom and a wild woman running wild and free and know what it's like to taste her masters blood on her tongue and lick it off of her teeth and make him cum as he's ripped to shreds and tasting life and death on her tongue. Grotesque ... imagination done gone too far?
The imagination turns so dark in all this darkness. My worst fear? If this is the life of the light of day. Pollen says it isn't. He's attuned and attuning. Is he asking? Or is he just attuning? Or is one lady lying? Two? Four?
SO DAMN DARK IN HERE.
Apologies if my meandering dark imagination went too far and this became rated TD, too dark. I agree, it is too dark. This darkness offends and I am left with mostly questions and fewer answers. I don't expect answers. I don't expect to be loved for this and praise does not motivate me. I am not a good girl. I am no girl at all. I am a grown woman with a wild imagination and full of questions
This is turning into CSI Minneapolis - and Elan is cracking the case
Elan -
Since you undertook to provide fiction, in a way that's potentially very dangerous, here are the facts:
"Vivy" and I are in a serious relationship. I love and care for this woman more than I could have imagined. Yes, we play at BDSM; it's totally consensual and I've never remotely abused her. She is not my "sub" except in the bedroom and in scenarios that we agree on. In life, she is my equal, my partner and my joy. One of the reasons for this is that she understands and accepts my life in the hobby. This allows me to be authentic with her in a way that, in my experience, has been impossible with any other woman. But there are a gazillion reasons why she's one of the best things that's happened to me.
Her venture into the hobby was her idea; I supported it and helped her and was damn proud that she did a great job. She is the "third provider" identified in my post above.
She got out of the business because she does not want to live the double life she would have to as a provider. She has her own business and her own life, and that is paramount. She wants to be authentic as well. The wake up call in her personal life had nothing to do with me, and is noboby's business except hers.
There are three providers on this board that have seen the two of us. Over the last few weeks, I have contacted several others, including you, about doing doubles with her. Why? Because we both enjoy it and, at this point, I'm a lot happier seeing a provider along with the woman I love.
This episode has been a nightmare and it has been ridiculous. I hope this will be the end of it.
Now, folks, please let us be.
P
As a matter of fact, on this board, facts do not get in the way of wild imagination. But it sure is pretty to think so. As I recall you've been a part of a mob or two yourself and all we are seeing here is that Karma is a bitch. But don't expect to end any time soon. People you've never met will stir the coals and fan the flame any day they are bored.
Facts are hard to come by but the ladies will make their own decisions about what they believe.
... is that there are, I believe, two diametrically opposed stories being told here. Both cannot be true.
On the one hand, we have a long-time hobbyist who avows he has never knowingly crossed any lines re BDSM, nor has he ever hit or abused anyone. He says the provider's limits and preferences are paramount to him. He tells us that no provider has ever complained to him about abuse. He has had at least one provider stand up for him publicly, here, and others in other forms, e.g. a whitelist. However... for some reason, multiple providers and at least one hobbyist have decided to attack this long-time hobbyist and attempt to ruin his reputation by telling many other people that he has crossed the line on SM with more than one provider... that he is actually a danger to the provider community. There is no truth in these accusations, yet these individuals have made them anyway, knowing that should their deceit be exposed, they themselves risk ridicule and loss of trust and reputation amongst the local hobby community... and possibly other consequences. Their motive(s) for making such accusations against this long-time hobbyist who has, by his account, always acted with only respect for and consideration towards providers, are unknown.
And on the other hand... there could be a factual basis for the accusations made against the long-time hobbyist, and those making the accusations believe they are acting for the good of the local community of providers and hobbyists. But those most directly affected are unable or unwilling to come forward publicly, for whatever reason.
Without more facts, each of us is left to decide for himself/herself which story we believe to be true based on the information available to us. Which one is more logical? Rational? Believable? Assuming of course it comes down to these two stories.
In the absence of more facts, I know which story I believe to be true.
For me anyway it has been an incredibly stressful & emotionally draining week. My daily horoscope ironically hit the nail on the head. The wine & a beloved friend are on their way. Cheers!
"Today there's not much astrological activity that directly affects you, Aquarius, so your main tendency will probably be to take it easy. But there is something that will make this a better day for you; it's important that you do what has to be done without worrying about what others think. At the same time, it may be easy for you to get so deeply involved in your projects that you forget to take care of yourself, so some of the aforementioned "doing what has to be done" should include taking some time for yourself today.
Enjoy the upcoming weekend & god bless you all!
Its simple, really.
The choice, as always is up to the provider if she wishes to see him.
Through reference checks, talking within the provider community, whatever, the contacted provider needs to feel comfortable with the person who wants to see them and know they will be safe seeing that person.
-- Modified on 8/29/2013 11:34:09 AM
It is now my opinion that BDSM in the provider world SUCKS! - there is no way to know for certain honesty is at hand, so be gentle! Balance of all power is clearly in hand of client. You can't set a boundary without fearing loss of client or worse, loss or detriment to livelihood. So, IT SUCKS! Physical damage is not ever truly 100% sure for consent ever in hobby-ville. This is my take away from all of this.
Certain providers show to be really into bruises and welts... if I know that they are on drugs and mind altering substances and abuse, I feel in no way is true consent possible for them.
Even with sobriety, no true consent is possible to bruising and welts, in my opinion, in the world of the hobby as honesty is diminished in an exchange that affects livelihood.
Ultimately, I also feel the bulk of the responsibility is in the hands of the Dom to understand the lack of balance of power and also honesty in light of livelihood or hard drugs/alcohol. If she's high or coming off a high or not present full in sound mind it just isn't cool.
In the the world of this hobby I don't see any possible CERTAINTY of consent for bruising/welting/lasting damage as ever possible.
-- Modified on 8/29/2013 3:34:57 PM
Once again well thought out Élan. True consent is not possible in an altered state, wether altered by chemicals or coercion.
While mild pain or discomfort, a swat to the ass, a light pulling of the hair or light nips and bites, may be somewhat exciting or even a bit of a turn on. Physical damage, welts, deep bruising or blood hmm...I may be far to vanilla but I just can't see how anyone could truely consent to that without some type of coercion or unhealthy need to do physical harm to themselves. YMMV...... maybe, but I think not.
Elan, you are so wise beyond your years. So refreshing.
I saw a provider within the last couple weeks that had a bruise from an overactive client. She showed it to me and just kind of laughed it off as nothing. You have to be nothing but sweet and very respectful and don't push any bounds with the providers and they will do nothing but thank you in return as I know this first hand.
If she notices it, shares it, even if she laughs, it is not nothing.
Sometimes laughter and tears are very close neighbors.
And somehow it must be that you are sweet and what an honor she did share it with you... and how fortunate to share in the presence of you that is sweet.