As y'all know, I'm a proponent of free speech.  

I think folks have vented their concerns.  But naming names isn't cricket in this exercise.

If someone feels they've been "outed" or threatened by a provider, they should send a PM to Staff with specific details:  who did it, when, where, etc.  Let Staff discipline the wrongdoers.  I don't think any of us consider ourselves part of a lynch mob.  Let's discuss, let's keep it decent.  As long as we're in this public forum, let's keep it above the belt.  

Now can we go back to having fun?

T.

Turkana,

All of us thank-you for being such a great local moderator and putting up with us.  Question? What is the next step if you have written Staff already many times reporting these activities and they do not answer back??????? I know that more than I have tryed and still no answer, not even an answer about no answer-maybe they are busy or something, I don't know, but it certainly is not you fault, like I said, you have been a great and fair moderator- I'm hoping we all can get through this and really get back to REAL Minnesota Nice- Hugs, Jackie

Turk I think you have done a great job here.  It is very important to remember to keep this civil and decent; this is a public forum as you say…..  I can’t really see what the point of naming names is, really is not fair when the person doesn’t have any power of rebuttal.  I think this is a greater issue then this board can really handle.  The providers or hobbyists that have the concerns can and hope they do let the staff know what has happened to them. It is truly wonderful to see a couple of the providers step up on the board. I hope the staff will discipline the wrongdoers with what power they have. The true question is what we do as a community of hobbyists and providers to control the damage that has happened or will happen.  We can only offer our support to those that have been hurt and try and help those that maybe in trouble. There really are some great people in this community and I think there are some that want to help if they can or could.  But the problem has been what to do.  I am sure this is only the tip of the iceberg.  We all need to help watch each others backs!!  I know this is just an observation and there are no answers here, but I just wanted to air what I felt……

And let’s have some fun watching either’s backs or is that backsides!


-- Modified on 10/6/2005 9:17:03 AM

I just wanted to say I think the posts were a good thing to see. This had to be brought out in to the public just to make everyone aware of what all has been going on lately. Does a name need to be thrown out there...probably not as most of us know the person in question.

As for - Can we all get back to having fun? - well that depends on the bad apple and what other stones they feel the need to keep throwing and how many more lives they feel they have to mess up just to make themselves feel better.

Play Smart! - Play Safe! - Play for Fun!

Turk, I agree that we shouldn't try to name names here, there are ways to do that without using the public board.

But as far as relying on TER staff to be part of our solution...
I'm not sure I follow the logic of that at all...  One takes their case to TER's staff when one feels that TER's acceptable use policy has been violated.  And in those cases, the staff is the ultimate arbiter and has as their remedies both moderation and termination of a member.

But no such claim has been made.  No one is suggesting that the blackmailing and subsequent outting of providers is being done on TER, and thus it doesn't violate any TER policy on which the staff can choose or act.  Both the problem, and the solution, are well outside the domain of TER policy so I'm not sure how their notification is germane.

If there became a growing and credible preponderence of evidence that I was actually an axe muder and was running around harming the providers I was seeing, would it not be appropriate for my actions to be discussed in this forum?  Are you suggesting that, rather than using this form for people to support and protect each other from me, the only remedy is for the provider's I've hurt to contact TER and suggest that my membership be revoked?  Again, I agree that naming names is a dangerous game that must be avoided.  It's the leap from that position to one of using TER staff as our protectorate, that is one big bunny-hoppin leap to be taking this long before Easter.

In my illustrative case, my actions wouldn't be related to TER's policies, and while they may choose to banish me anyway, their doing so in no way improves the safety of local providers.  Having the forum be a place where my actions are discussed would.

Agree 100% with OZ.

I've met each of the wonderful ladies who've spoken up today and I'm not the least bit surprised to see the solidarity and strength they're exibiting.  Hopefully, their example will empower others to follow suit.  

I personally know of another provider that's been targeted for this treatment within the past week or so.  Evil and inexcusable.

It's painfully obvious who'd behind this garbage.  IMO, it's high time for a serious boycott of her and her toadies.  

Cancelled my VIP today because of this.  This alias should speak for itself.

I don't disagree w/ you, OZ.  

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that there's not a whole lot that the operator of a "public" forum like this can do.  It's up to Staff to make decisions as to whether discipline (banning, etc) is relevant and effective for the purposes of the board.  In order to do so, they need to know from the people affected.  I know that in the past, individuals who have outed others have been banned.  That's appropriate because it's conduct that has relevance to our freedom to discuss our hobby on this board -- if someone is outed, they're not going to be able to express themselves here.  On the other hand, when the conduct goes beyond that -- whether it be extortion, death threats, etc. -- I don't think that Staff can do anything and that it's healthy to make the community aware. The problem then becomes how you avoid mass hysteria.  It's always an issue of walking the line.

I think we've had a healthy discussion; thanks to all -- and especially "deep thinkers" like yourself, we've kept this pretty much under control and had an opportunity to reflect on it.  

Let's keep using our big heads!

There are serious issues being raised and if this is not the place to discuss them, then where is that place?  The kind of behavior I have been hearing about is not only disgraceful and personally harmful to those directly being attacked but also raises the specter of heightened LE attention.  After all, I have heard of threats being made, attempts at blackmail and extortion.  Couple this with the abuse Tia suffered recently and it's not giving me any sense of security about the state of our little community of sorts.  It's all too easy to see how this could really spiral out of control.  We need to be able to talk about this to defuse this situation before it completely blows up in our faces.

"and especially "deep thinkers" like yourself"

I am NOT a deep thinker... But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night

I agree in principal with your response, although sometimes mass hysteria is what is needed.  Throughout history, nearly every case where man has committed some really sinister act against fellow man, the act was enabled by good people choosing a reasoned response with good intention... when what was needed was outrage, indignation... mass hysteria.  Atrocities always depend on our inate reluctance to become outraged in order to succeed.

Hey, and go easy on me with the "deep thinker" thing... Chicks do NOT dig the pithy analytical types.  I got enough issues as it is!  

I think you avoid mass hysteria by giving the name of the offender right here, right now.  Otherwise guys may suspect ladies who had nothing to do with it. That could become a real witch hunt.

but there are few - if any that don't know the culprit.  She has been an anathema to this community since the day she showed up.  And it hasn't been helped by those that have espoused her as a virtuous type when given the opportunity.  As far as who she is - well, at this point it should be obvious - who's missing?


-- Modified on 2/25/2005 11:12:31 PM

I disagree.  

TER staff won't do a damn thing about these allegations except ban their screen name.  In fact, TER has participated in letting one of the accused providers run other providers right off the board.  Now look at what goes on.  

Given their lack of ability to do squat about it, why should TER staff have any privledge as far as this particular type of information goes?

Who did what, when, and where is extremely pertinent information for clients and providers alike.  Providers have done this type of thing in the past and nothing was ever done about it.

Providers will continue to do this in the future and TER isn't going to do anything about it then either.

The only defense clients have in this type of case is dispensing the information.  The repercussion needs to happen in the offending provider's pocketbook.

So, no, we can't chill just yet.  As soon as possible, but certainly not yet.

Call me dumb, but its not obvious ... yet. I have a tentative idea(75% sure), but its not obvious. If someone could PM me or send an email it may help ease my mind. Thanks...