The last few providers I've reached out to have requested a picture of a driver's license or a pay stub or both. I have offered P411 info and ter info on both occasions but they wanted more. Am I wrong to not want to share drivers license or pay stub? In the past P411 or ter was enough. Not looking for an argument just trying to understand. I am evidently wasting my money on the verification sights?
A pay stub? Not a snowballs chance in hell.
A safe provider? How do we know? They are here for week and gone. No reviews and we don't get the providers information.
Even local providers. How do know they're safe?
So you feel safe but aren't you forgetting the Client's safety?
I've done the DL thing but I don't like it, at all.
Not sure what the best answer is so will be watching to see what everybody says about the subject.
I can confirm that both providers were reputable. Actually had seen one of them several years ago. I thought being a p411 member covered the screening tho? That's not the case anymore? Just asking as if that's the case no need to waste that money anymore? 40+ okays on there! Full disclosure it's been a year since last ok.
Providers that allow P411 and/or TER as screening require that you have at least two (2) P411 "okays" and/or TER "whitelists" that are no older than 6 months before the scheduled date. I've seen providers expand this to "okays" and/or "whitelists" cannot be more than one year old due to the pandemic; however, your last review is from June 2020 so I imagine your last "okay" is from June 2020. Therefore, you're outside the one year threshold and definitely outside the six month threshold for all of your "okays".
That said, you're most likely going to need to provide PII (personal identifying information) for the next provider or two to get caught up to be able to use P411.
Appreciate the feedback!
Being on P411 doesn't mean a provider can't ask for more screening information although it largely defeats the purpose when they do ask for a lot more. The inconsistency here is that the providers say that no reputable provider will misuse your PII without explaining how clients know for sure the provider really is reputable and will remain that way. Providers can change as well.
I've considered making this a post on my blog because there's so much information to flesh through. The reality though is that screening, no matter what method, is not full proof. However, certain methods (i.e: real world info, DL, and/or employment info) mitigate potential issues more than others. The pandemic brought out the worst of the worst and that is when I noticed a shift in screening that I think is here to stay. I know that for me, requiring at least some real world information has kept me out of some situations with questionable people from the jump.
Also, maybe it's just me but fellas who reach out via P411 tend to be very arrogant and entitled about the whole thing. They often fail to even introduce themselves politely and instead just say something along the lines of, "Hi. I'd like to meet you on "x" day at "x" time in "x" city. I have 30+ "okays". Thanks." Like, okay dude, you just went to the bottom of my screening list for the day. The approach is 85% of the battle.
You are probably right about the arrogance of p411. To be honest I feel some entitlement as I was sold on the idea originally per the fact that it covered screening? P411 did the screening for the providers? Obviously the new normal has affected everything! Quick question Paige, how would you handle the situation if I had reached out to you. It would be the same situation as my original thread, as we have met in the past. Just curios.
Thx
They’re all very arrogant and entitled? That sucks.
I don’t introduce myself through P411 quite that way. I send what I think is a polite, respectful request, give details on when I’d like to meet, mention I have several recent OKs (read: references) from well-known local providers, say that there’s a lot of info about me in my profile, and if there’s any other info the provider needs to feel comfortable scheduling with me to let me know.
However… I don’t understand what so terrible about the example you gave. Yes, it’s short and to the point, but maybe they’ve gotten input from providers to not waste their time with verbosity. There was a friendly “Hi” greeting and a “Thanks” at the end. Terse, but polite. They got right to the point and were clear about wanting to schedule with you, and asked your availability for a specific day/time/place. They mentioned that they have many potential references for you to check. They probably figured you know how to view their OKs and profile, and take it from there. And they also probably figured that if you responded that you’re interested or need more info, they can provide more details then. If not, they just saved you some time from not having to read a lengthy initial inquiry.
More terse than is my preference, but I can see plusses with that approach.
No, not everyone. As per my post, I stated "fellas... tend to be". Doesn't mean all of them. I digress.
In regards to introductions, I'm not asking for an epic poem nor am I wanting flowery prose but I do require some level of introduction. Please remember your first email is also your first impression. Sure, saying "hi" and "thanks" is nice, but a person who can take a few minutes to say "Hey I'm "so and so". I found you on "insert here" and I'd love to meet you on "x" day at "x" time in "x" city for "incall" if available. A bit about me... (Insert a sentence or two about their personality.) Please feel free to contact any of my references/okays and please let me know if you need more info. Thanks, (insert their name)", just is a better first impression.
Out there, on the world wide web, is a plethora of information about me that gives the potential client insight into my personality, quirks, likes/dislikes, etc. I'd like that to be reciprocated at least a bit. This is why I even provide some minor prompts on my booking page to help gauge compatibility: what kind of music do you like, libations, funny story, etc. I get what this industry is about at the end of the day for most clients, especially those from TER, but it's also about connection and intimacy. I have found that those who take the time to at least introduce themselves are better communicators outside and inside the bedroom which makes for a much better date all around. In addition, I will say this: I have yet to decline an engagement request from someone who sent a lengthly initial inquiry.
From our interactions, I know you're blunt and I am too; however, there is a way to show some personality while being polite and succinct.
… when guys who want to meet you haven’t bothered to read your website, which you took time to create for their benefit?
One of the benefits of P411 is that it makes a lot of info about providers AND clients easily accessible, and thus it streamlines the mutual qualification process. As I said, I have a lot of info about myself in my P411 profile… about my personality (both in the words and style), likes/dislikes, etc. I could write a long intro message that repeats some of that info, or I could simply let the provider know my profile has that info. I choose to do the latter. My profile also includes info on who I am.
It’s clear I think that when I reach out to a provider through P411 that I most likely found her there. When I give the provider access to my OKs, I think it’s understood that the provider is free to contact any of them she wishes. And as I said, I ask the provider to let me know if she needs more info, although frankly that should be understood also.
If an initial contact is NOT made via P411 but via email, then I agree that the kind of info you mentioned is appropriate, as there’s no other easy way fo the provider to get it. And my initial emails, when I reach out that way, are longer than with P411. My point is that P411 makes it easy to get that info and thus initial reach-outs through P411 can be shorter.
Just my 2 cents, that’s all.
Obviously, you're one of a kind KnotsAway because you actually fill out the bio fully. However, just because you operate in a certain way but doesn't mean other clients do. You are on the client side of P411 - you cannot see other client profiles. I am on the provider side so I can and honestly the majority of the client profile is focused on their physicality (facial hair, visit the dentist, are the overweight, etc.). While that information is helpful, I'm more concerned about the other questions like personality type, music, refreshments, etc. Questions that are not normally answered. Suffice to say, there are numerous clients who do not have a fully filled out profile, have some form of "prefer not to share" as their answer on half their profile, and have not legitimately filled out the long-form, open-ended "bio" part of their profile and if they do, it's really more so focused on the acts that they most enjoy in a session.
In addition, when it comes to screening via P411, it's gotten much more difficult due to clients having "okays" that are well out of date and "okays" from providers with inactive accounts (a slew retired during the pandemic) and there's no way to contact them. So semblance of an introduction is helpful as it could shed some light on their specific situation. Also it's not always clear that someone found on P411. I'm often found by P411 members on other sites and THEN they reach out to me on P411.
Again, per my previous post, that example intro I provided was no more than six (6) sentences. You mean to tell me that it's too difficult for most people, in this case men, to write six coherent sentences that aren't terse but instead succinct? The difference between terse and succinct is often the tone. And again, that is the point - people fail to realize that even though it's the written word, it still carries a tone. However, if you want to shoot me an example of your normal P411 intro email, I'll take a look at it and then show you the difference in what I'm talking about.
In the future though, it would be awesome for you to take what a provider is saying to you at face value.
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Oh, TLDR: I don't get peeved when people don't read my website even though my website is linked to my P411. Instead, if they ask basic questions, I just send them the url to my website.
-- Modified on 7/28/2021 11:05:12 AM
I’m just offering you another perspective, a client’s perspective, as you’re not a client (and I’m not a provider) and I thought it might be helpful to give you an idea as to why a client might be terse/concise in communications. It may not be because he’s a poor prospective client for you. Could be other factors at play, e.g. he has a completely different communication style than you do, he doesn’t know that you highly value longer introductory messages (even on channels like P411), or maybe he’s seen all the threads on TER and Twitter where providers talk about “time wasters”, and he values your time and thus kept it short ‘n sweet.
I don’t expect I’m the only guy who’s ever filled out his P411 profile completely, but I have had other providers tell me I’m one of a kind. I think they meant it as a compliment. 🙂
it's one I've heard before. Although those requests might be the *last* to be answered it doesn't mean they go unanswered. Typically, I will respond and ask that they give me a bit more info into who they are and why they think we'd be compatible, especially if I don't fit their preferred provider type. They are usually apologetic and, as you said, reached out that way because they didn't want to waste my time which I appreciate. But it's not my style. I'm very blessed, I get a lot of requests especially with my MN rate being so competitive now... I want to make sure I'm spending time with people I would click with. In regards to the original example I provided a few replies above:
""Hi. I'd like to meet you on "x" day at "x" time in "x" city. I have 30+ "okays". Thanks."
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Now, there’s nothing wrong with this request, and it was probably written by really great person who had the best intentions in mind. It's just a straightforward, no-fluff sentence typed out by busy person. Nothing more. But invariably, due to the tone it comes across a bit more pushy and a bit demanding. And while my communication style is different, I worked in corporate for years and was on a leadership team with the upper echelon members of the company.. even they were aware of tone in emails and would change it depending on who they were emailing. With me, they could be short and blunt - we had that relationship. With someone they didn't know and were requesting something of, they'd be a bit more cognizant of tone. If those men of all men could do it, I know others can too.
And no, you're not the only guy to fill out your P411 profile in it's entirety but you're one of a few. *winks*.
Exactly!
I've found that with some if I PM them before actually setting up an appointment they get peeved because I just did not use the scheduled appointment feature. Others you use that out of the blue and they are peeved because they want an intro through PM or email. My intro and all info is in my profile, they can just click and read.
If I get a negative response which is truthfully, quite rare, its a signal to move on. There is no doubt ladies operate in the same manner.
So, what exactly do you want from an initial contact via P411?
"Hello (insert provider name),
I'm (insert client name) and I originally found you on (insert site) and would love to meet you. Are you available on on "x" day at "x" time in "x" city for incall? If not, would this (insert secondary date/time) work? A bit about me... (Insert a sentence or two about their personality.) Please feel free to contact any of my references/okays but please know I've made the most recent ones aware that you may contact them. If I missed anything or if you need more information, please let me know.
Thanks and I'm looking forward to hearing from you,
(insert their name)"
Roughly six to seven sentences. Succinct yet personable. Good tone that doesn't come off as bossy, pushy, or demanding.
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I just say hello, would like to meet, here's my first suggested time, let me know what works. I keep it as short as possible. Typically end by saying something like "Looking forward to meeting you. Thanks".
Fyi
Whomever sent me a message I'm unable to open as I let my vip lapse. My p411 just lapsed also. Probably won't renew either one. Sounds like there's less expensive ways to screen?
Every time you turn over personally identifiable information (PII) to a provider you are trusting that she will never use that information in a way you don't want. I don't doubt that is true a huge majority of the time so long as you are dealing with well established providers. But the chance of it happening is not zero and the more people you hand that information out to, the greater the chance that you will run into a provider who is thought to be reputable but turns out not to be. And all it takes is one bad apple to cause a lot of trouble for you in your real life.
One of the things I learned early on when I got involved in P4P was the value of mutual anonymity. I don't know who she really is and she doesn't know who I really am. There are providers who do not demand PII as part of their screening process.
I've never done it and never will. I've had a few ask, never as part of P411 but I've screened out the ones who state on their website it's required and file them as blocked. If my P411 or refs are not enough it's time to move on quickly. Anonymity is it for me, nothing good can come from people you don't really know (or don't know their situation) having this kind of info...not always but it only takes one to completely F your life up. I completely understand why some feel they need it, it's just not going to be me. If I was retired and single, I may not care or I may still care because I don't want copies of that stuff floating around in the digital world for many reasons.
Now for those having no verifiable info, they need to start somewhere and the world we live in now ladies feel if they have your personal info, DL or paystub they are safe. That is a false sense of safety in my view.
I also have not had an Okay in over a year. I plan to book with an active lady who has seen me before to get a new Okay.
Anonymity is key. I got swindled and threatened on a sugar baby site once. I also have had a TER poster threaten to expose my real name.
I got on 411 many years ago to skip background checks. If someone won't take my TER and P411 references, I move on. Just one scare will make you realize NO date is worth extortion and exposure.
Yes, it can still happen, but I work hard to minimize the risks. No Dl, No Paystub, no real name.
BTW, if you get caught in a bust, you can know each other's birthdate and you're still screwed.
I don't get why this is always such a hot topic. There are well-reviewed, respected providers out there who I'm happy to give my information to. If it makes her more comfortable, the experience is going to be better for both of us. If someone with little or no history asks for more than I'm comfortable with, I'll move on. Simple. If you're cleared through P411, that shows that you were willing to verify your identity once; that you are who you say you are. I agree that should count for something. But that could have been years ago and it doesn't say you're not an abusive jerk. Give her what she asks for or move on.
I agree it can be frustrating sometimes. Right now I don't have any current references and I don't want to ask someone from 5 years ago to vouch for me. I really wanted to meet someone new, but she replied to my email stating that she only uses current references. I swore at my screen and wrote her a polite response saying I'll be in touch when I have the references. Because I "hobby" so infrequently, I probably will never be able to meet her. I'm not happy about it, but there are other great providers who have different requirements. I'll just have to get in touch with them instead.
Every client has to decide for themselves if they are willing to give out PII. Clearly you are. It's been explained what can go wrong in this thread so what else do you want?
I used my real name and email address for the first few ladies I ever saw. Then like the 3rd one told me not to do that and use an alias name and make up an email so I did. I have been using an alias ever since and have seen the top ladies in the state with no problem for 7 years. I have never filled out a booking form ever either. Simple emails work just as well.
I remember a date with a well known lady like 5 years ago once showed me how her clients would email her from there work, use there real names and work emails. She even showed me a few of there doctor and lawyer bio pages. I was surprised how there guys were so dumb and just looking to get caught but whatever I don't know the ladies real name and they do not know mine.
...the real names and bios of several hobbying doctors and lawyers courtesy of a local well known lady.
That should be the end of the argument.
This is why what sweetromantic and lockstock say!
Now, I know some people, especially from TER, dislike "Twitter" providers; however, I stumbled upon this thread earlier today. Suffice to say, providers across the gamut have their thoughts on P411. I will say more veteran providers (in the industry 10+ years) always told me that P411 was always an advertising site and screening was secondary. Who's to say.
All I know is I found this thread and thought it might shed some light.
From what I know P411 was never intended to be an advertising platform. The "infiltrated by law enforcement" rumor has been around forever and has been debunked. It's likely less infiltrated than any other platform including this one. There is no much to infiltrate there since all it does is says I have oks from x people and those people have given out x number of oks. There are no reviews or any other info anyone would be interested in except maybe a spouse or someone wanting to blackmail someone else. There are none of the issues big platforms have such as underage, human trafficking, etc...they run a pretty tight ship from my experience.
I do find it kind of ironic that ladies will go through the requirements to appear on P411 (I believe it's referred by a member or verified by one or more) but say they don't accept OK's from there. I can see maybe 1-5 ok's not being enough but a 10 year history+ with 40+ is not enough? An ID surely provides no more security at that point. I've never found these things to be true with anyone that I have contacted that did not have the words "real name and ID required" on their website. Those I pass by so I'm not sure if they hold that standard with many ok's spanning a decade.
There are many providers on P411 that do not have a review to their name or have desisted themselves. There is no way to verify they are real or repeatable so giving them personal information seems like a one way street. If I asked for theirs, all I know is they are real and I can look up their court records.
I think it is safe to say everyone has their own level of comfort and everyone should be fine with that. If it works, great, if not, it does not and we all just move on.
I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet that P411 membership by clients includes the condition that providers can ask to see the ID that was used to create the member’s P411 ID, e.g, driver’s license. I think the rules at the time I joined said that it was acceptable to cover up parts of the ID such as address and last name when showing the ID to the provider; I don’t recall exactly as it was several years ago.
So I’ve always brought that ID with me to sessions. But so far no one’s asked to see it. Maybe because there’s lots of info in my profile, and my OKs are solid.
I don’t know if P411’s rules have changed since I joined, but when I joined P411 membership and showing an ID to providers was not mutually exclusive.
to do "as much additional screening" as we'd like when we receive an appointment request. That line in and of itself tells me that P411 doesn't believe it's truly the end-all-be-all of screening.
I don’t think anyone here suggested that P411 is the end-all-be-all of screening. Anyone who thinks that wasn’t paying attention when they joined P411, nor when they use it to request appointments (or respond to those requests). It’s a tool that, as I said above, streamlines SOME of the process. But it doesn’t do everything providers and clients need to do to ensure a mutually safe and pleasurable session.
I think this is my third or fourth version of this. I really can't say the whole full version of this situation. Over the past many years, I've known about incidents or known these guys personally. It has to be at least 15 guys that have gone down for several reasons.
But what I have severe issues with is when a companion purposely takes down a guy. I can't remember right; she dropped off the evidence at his house so the SO would find out, or she went up to the door and told the SO. I remember a few phone calls beforehand, and this person mentioned to me. Has my name come up in anything, and I don't ever want my kids to find out, I'm in this lifestyle.
So, the ball drops, and so many thought either I can't believe she did this, and if she did this... could it happen to me. At the end of this incident, her whole life (everything) was vetted to people who wanted to know.
She is retired, and I'm NOT going to say any names in this situation (on here or DM)...I still have a life.
-- Modified on 7/30/2021 9:39:35 AM
That most companions don't do anything as I mentioned above. That was just this incident
The way I see it everything we do in life as a level of reward vs risk, from the route we drive home to the food we eat.
The only voice worth really listening to is the one in your gut. If you even I have the slightest concern about a providers integrity, why move forward in the first place?
That said, I also look forward to the opportunity to enjoy the company of Paige and Jordan at some point soon and will gladly provide whatever screening info they need as I have no concerns whatsoever based on their reputation and status. With such providers, I suspect the rewards are great and the risk minimal.
Listen to your gut feelings, and not your little head.
Btw: how damn cool is this civil discussion anyway?👍
I've given the name Walter White (love Breaking Bad), and pulled random peoples dl pics off the internet.