Misty,
It is good to see you jumping in to air your feelings. I go totally bonkers with "the silent treatment". That causes anyone to imagine the other person's thoughts. What a disaster waiting to happen! When there is communication (not just a monologue), there is hope of a satisfactory conclusion for everyone.
The lack of provider input into the complaints (which even I support because the local climate has become quite unfriendly), is what caused me to try to do a little mediation. This is very hard work, but without it there are no winners. The guys end up seeing only travelers who come through less often then desired for purposes of deepening the familiarity, and the local providers end up with much less business than they want and a lot of headaches due to harsh competition among themselves for the few appointments who do want to repeat.
As far as the moderator's decision to sit back and watch, I don't think any of us should be able to control the moderator, or who the moderator is. I've been moderated by turk in the past and I PM'd him to ask for undertstanding. His reponse was to unmoderate me becasue he could see that I wanted to cooperate with the TER rules and simply did not understand them as fully as I needed to.
"Understanding", that is the absolute key to improving our situation here. Where there is open communication there is hope for understanding. When I made my first attempt to mediate the issue I was not criticizing the guys for telling it like we see it. It may have gotten a little bit hurtful as the threads developed, but the real negativity came when there was no response from the providers. All my life I have known that when a lady remains quiet I better watch out because I know the wheels are turning in her head but I don't get any feedback on what I have been saying.
Thanks Misty for coming forward. I could tell you really felt what you were saying.
cme
Hey guys, I'm sure a discussion on who's primary board it is has it's place (perhaps in a different venu). "Our team" vs. "their team" really defeats the purpose of even mentioning our several disatisfactions, which is to try to positively impact some local attitudes . Now, I expect many of us have feelings for the ladies we want to have treat us like kings. There must be more than just words and $'s with which to walk. Can we work just half as hard to bring about a flavorful outcome to our famous MN soap opera? We look pretty silly to the agencies from Florida and also from the lurkers from other regions who check in on us to see what we're arguing about now.
On the other hand, if the majority of posters really don't give a rat's *ss about achieving a wholesome and happy community here (which we don't have now), why are we even wasting our time? Why do we have to get into "teams" issues again? Why not just walk to the travelers and say nothing here? The reality is that this (by TER declaration) is not just a hobbyist's board even though it is listed as primarily for hobbyist. Is it vitally necessary on this PUBLIC and OPEN board to insult our ladies in the process of making our case? OK, rip me apart now. I just had to speak my peace. Oh what a wonderful word "peace" -- in fact, equally as nice as "piece" lol.
cme
I agree CME. I typically do not look at this Hobby in terms of "Teams" "their side" "Our side". WE are ALL in this hobby to meet some people and have a great time.
Personally I wish the Providers would post more often on here. I commend the ones that regularly do so. I think some are afraid to post something that some hobbyist might not like and will hurt their business. That is a business choice they have to make.
At the same time as I have informe many providers, the more they see your Name out there, next time they are looking for some afternoon delight, whose name might come to might quicker?
I have your 6 on this one CME...bring it on!
I very much doubt that providers are in the business to "meet some people and have a great time." It's about the Benjamins.
I've asked our moderator to step in a few times and he's chosen to stand by and watch.
If those here with an agenda can't post their nasty stuff, they'll give up. Some VERY hurtful things have been said to providers who have tried to post here. Who wants to go through that. No provider NEEDS this board. I've seen ladies go as far as to post as an alias about themselves because of the fear of being harassed.
I've stayed because this is where everyone is and I founded this place, I failed to get what I wanted accomplished because I don't have control of who moderates. If it doesn't change soon, I'll probably find another venue. I want a place I can go to where I can post my opinions and have fun without having my feelings hurt on a regular basis. I've had it guys. I've put up with some major bs and if I didn't have an attachment, I'd have left.
EVERY provider who's tried to be a part of this community has been harassed and the others have already heard how lame this board is. It's not worth it. You guys made this YOUR board, don't blame anyone but yourselves for allowing those with agenda's to make this place unfriendly.
Next time, I'll make sure the board is moderated sufficiently to allow open discussion WITHOUT attacks on others. I come here to see what the climate is out there. Check on warnings and have fun. It's no longer fun.
-- Modified on 1/24/2005 7:35:16 AM
Misty,
It is good to see you jumping in to air your feelings. I go totally bonkers with "the silent treatment". That causes anyone to imagine the other person's thoughts. What a disaster waiting to happen! When there is communication (not just a monologue), there is hope of a satisfactory conclusion for everyone.
The lack of provider input into the complaints (which even I support because the local climate has become quite unfriendly), is what caused me to try to do a little mediation. This is very hard work, but without it there are no winners. The guys end up seeing only travelers who come through less often then desired for purposes of deepening the familiarity, and the local providers end up with much less business than they want and a lot of headaches due to harsh competition among themselves for the few appointments who do want to repeat.
As far as the moderator's decision to sit back and watch, I don't think any of us should be able to control the moderator, or who the moderator is. I've been moderated by turk in the past and I PM'd him to ask for undertstanding. His reponse was to unmoderate me becasue he could see that I wanted to cooperate with the TER rules and simply did not understand them as fully as I needed to.
"Understanding", that is the absolute key to improving our situation here. Where there is open communication there is hope for understanding. When I made my first attempt to mediate the issue I was not criticizing the guys for telling it like we see it. It may have gotten a little bit hurtful as the threads developed, but the real negativity came when there was no response from the providers. All my life I have known that when a lady remains quiet I better watch out because I know the wheels are turning in her head but I don't get any feedback on what I have been saying.
Thanks Misty for coming forward. I could tell you really felt what you were saying.
cme
As far as posting with an alias, many guys have done the same thing for fear of being "outed". Use of an alias usually means that there is "no trust" in each other. Personally, I don't want to get naked with someone who I don't trust, and I'm sure the same is true in reverse (no pun intended). And I certainly can't imagine making woopy with someone from the opposing "team". Banding together for the purpose of having power over others is a very bad way to promote one's business or hobbying efforts. It really just deepens the breach. I'd love to be able to bed down with the reasonable understanding that I will get what I am paying and that my being there is appreciated. I would imagine that the provider would love to bed down with someone who she feels appreciates her and will be back for more. The common denominator is really pretty simple. ~~~~~~~~~~~~cme
Misty, (and other providers);
I have an honest question and hoping for an honest answer. Over the years, I've posted on a number of controversial threads, and have often "led the charge" into the controversial topic. But I've always tried to "walk the fine line"... I've always tried to be fair and level headed, always tried to be careful not to beat up on anyone personally, although I can think of times when my comments weren't taken that way.
At the risk of sounding defensive, I'm curious to what extent your post above relates to me, especially my recent postings about the wide provider/hobbyist chasm that we seem to have here in MN. I've heard a couple of positive comments from local providers, but am curious about what you and other providers would say. I would welcome your feedback, here or via PM, positive or negative.
Nothing is directed at you OZ, you're a nice guy. You mean well and you would never flame.
This is all I ask for, an end to the flames. If someone 50% of the time has nothing but flaming to do, they should be moderated. This board is owned by TER. They make the rules.
But, that's why TER wants to moderate everyone. If I had a board where no providers wanted to post, I'd moderate it heavily til everyone felt safe to contribute. TER wanted to keep everyone on moderated status and I asked him to not do so when this board was started. I'm not asking to moderate everyone, just those who flame and irritate people. Not everyone on this board are happy and stable. Not everyone comes here to have fun, that's apparent.
All this means is their posts aren't automatically placed on the board ... if they have nothing to do but flame or out someone trying to pass on sensitive info why allow them to.
One thing, please don't relate lack of business to postings. Business is good. I really don't think this board has any effect on my business. If someone reads my posts and chooses not to see me, it's probably best. Those who read my posts and choose to see me, probably have a better understanding of what I'm about. I just don't care to see (2) people harass providers into silence.
I'd hate to see you go, Misty. You're cheerful, funny, knowledgeable, mature, and I enjoy your posts.
Let's not let a few bad apples spoil the bunch. I hope you (and everybody) will see that for every 1 jerky inconsiderate poster, there are a dozen friendly and fun ones. Every day here I see people banding together to help one another--even with things unrelated to the hobby. Personally, I think it's easier to ignore the childish posts than to try to have somebody moderate them away because it's hard to draw the line--it's nice to have some level of free speech, even if there are a few nuisances in the mix. Nobody really believes or listens to the mean, childish posters anyways--it's obvious who they are, and we should just not pay them attention, not let them rile us up like they sometimes try to do.
This board is great not just for sharing information, but for forming a community. Without that, the hobby is an hour of sex now then, and the rest of the time we are alienated in our sexual "hobbyist thoughts". Seeing providers and clients post on the board gives me insights to everybody's feelings and actually enhances my liaisons by making me more comfortable.
Worst of all is when people let their motives get the best of them (this is the team mentality). Providers spreading rumors about other providers. Providers posting as clients to make competition seem bad. Clients trying to cut down a provider because he wants to lower her demand, in the hopes she'll lower prices... etc etc. This is all very childish. Let's communicate with honesty and consideration.
"EVERY provider who's tried to be a part of this community has been harassed and the others have already heard how lame this board is. It's not worth it. You guys made this YOUR board, don't blame anyone but yourselves for allowing those with agenda's to make this place unfriendly. "
I have to agree with Misty 100% on this. There are some 'males' (IMO not men, certainly not gentlemen) who have made this board *provider unfriendly*. In the past there were all of the 'mission/pointman' posts (made it sound like the ladies were the enemy). We have had the endless discussion about how much so and so charges and why it is too much. There have been slams about how some ladies look.
When Misty leaves what providers will be left? How long will they stay?
I do remember a number of times when some providers have been bashed (in my opinion unfairly) here. Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me but I also seem to remember a number of hobbyists coming to the defense of the ladies and decrying those who engaged in personal attacks.
I guess I'm not sure I understand why you and the other ladies find this board so hostile when it is just a few who act abusive. Those who want you and the ladies here far outnumber those with an axe to grind. I would encourage you and the other ladies to stay or join as the case may be and stand your ground against the flamers. This board really needs the perspective from the providers side so the hobbyists can better understand where the ladies are coming from.
Hi, folks --
I don't make the rules here. I do enforce them, within discretion.
As I've stated before, my bias is to let people speak their minds. If they break the rules, they'll be moderated. If anyone thinks someone else is breaking the rules, then they should let me know. But be specific: tell me where the person broke the rules and what rules they broke. I don't moderate anyone just because someone asks. I don't moderate someone because they're not nice. If I did, then it would be a free-for-all.
I personally do not think, in general, that the hobbyists on this board have been hurtful or unfair to providers. Harsh or uncomplimentary sometimes? Yes. The providers have been harsh and uncomplimentary as well. By far, however, the worst conduct, and the conduct that's gotten people moderated, has been hobbyists insulting hobbyists. So if someone is less than "nice," so what? We are adults here; this is an adult site; and we are all capable of standing up and defending ourselves. Do I sometimes wish people would be more civil? Of course I do. But I'm not about to start legislating courtesy.
Play hard, be safe.
Turk
I for one am sick of the in bashing amongst people (hobbyists and providers) on these boards. This is a place for input and if people have personal grievances air it out on your own space and on your own time. Lets get back to the main point of this board least we not forget why we are in here in the first place: Make it better for both the hobbyists and the providers so that we may all have some fun...isn't that what its all about in the first place?
SC