Things been kinda slow around here lately.  The dogs actually getting more posts than we are...

So, the subject of stigmatizm!  Many of us, both clients and providers, feel stigmatized in the US and generally aren't very open about this aspect of our lives.  

Why is that?

Bill was OK talking about his drug use (though he shoulda kept his mouth shut rather than say he was stupid enough not to inhale), but not his sexual use.  When I smoked pot (or did a few other things) I never really hesitated to talk about it, but I'm not exactly open with anyone I've worked with about my escort pursuits.  When I was younger I wouldn't hesitate to talk about my sex life (there were a few that I did keep to myself), but not now.  It's OK for a bunch of guys to talk about getting a grind at a strip club, but not from an escort.

So, why is this?  Why don't guys in the office stand around and have conversations similar to those on this board?  Is it different in other countries?  Would it be different if US laws were a bit more lax?

Launce

Launce yes isnt that interesting........to me the sex industry is just that, strippers are in the same catagory.  I cant wait to read what the guys viewpoints are on this.  Madison

Are you back or just keeping up with posts?  How are things in your life?  I hope much better!

Launce.

Yes, Launce, you hit the nail on the head when you referred to the legal aspects of the hobby. Not many of us are willing to admit to having participated in something that is not only misunderstood and taboo for much of our society, but is also illegal. Yes, we do live in a very, very puritanical society, compared to most of the rest of the world, where sex and sexual encounters are much less stigmatized. Strip clubs, on the other hand, are legal, and even though some people might judge them, nobody is going to jail and not too many are getting divorced over going to one. Sad, but true.

I don't know, Lance.  Seems like a no-brainer to me (at least in some ways).  For me, it'd be the illegal issue.  Annnndddd the Mrs.  That could get a little ugly!  But you're right to wonder why single guys will talk about going to the strip clubs and ordering up a lap dance, but keep the curtains closed on anything more intimate.

Only my two cents worth from an FNG

It's called politics and perception and preservation.

You can go to a strip club if it's with clients and in the interest of closing a deal - that is all well and good and very manly - because you see, we did it for the team, and not for ourselves!!

You may even go to the strip club with the boys or bachlor party, smoke cigars, talk shit and have a good lap dance - that may be considered border line ok, depending on the circles you go in and the "air" you are trying to put off.

Also - at a strip clube, especially in Minnesota, at least the ones I have been in,  you may cum from the bump and grind, but you probably are not getting laid or a blow job on the premis. I beleive some of the dancer's motto is: "Your going to get fucked, but you aint getting laid!!!"  You may make contact for later, but typically not on the premis.

But have you ever talked to anyone about going to a strip club alone - that has the perception of being pretty pathetic.

All in all strip clubs are border line acceptable acts of behavior - and even in this you have have different levels - you can go to Shieks spend millions and millions and never get a lap dance - and that is probably consider much better then going to Jakes and getting your dick ground off for far less - if it is with a group of folks!!

But from the time you were a young man, you (at least I) always heard - "I ain't paying for it, never had, never will" and all of the other machismo comments that come along with it.

Typically the people you speak with about these types of things are you closer friends as well. You know thier wives/ GF and they know your wife / GF. A small slip of the tounge about our "hobby" and thing could get very messy.

Some times you don't know how far the influence goes - will it lead to LE? Are you a public figure such as a teacher, coach, or local business owner.

You add these issues together and I think you can see why we find it hard to speak about our experinces. I can't tell you how many times I have wanted to speak with some of my freinds about the great time I just had - but I am afraid of the possible ramifications. They wouldn't understand at all.

If you think LE is hot now, imagine if we all started to talk about our experinces with local providers. The word would start to get out and LE would be forced to crank up the heat even more. We may think we live in a liberal state - that only goes for trees, water and homeless. Our state is so concerned about it's perception ( even though we elected the town clown) that morality and family values are driving our election. Not that these are bad things, but lets be honest, our hobby for the most part does not play well in thoose circles.

Sorry for the ramble - but it is great that we have this forum so we can talk about our hobby and discuss issues. This way we can preserve our hobby!!!

I'd have to say yes, to a point. Certainly if the laws were less intrusive, there would be more openness-- take Amsterdam as an example. It's certainly more bohemian, what with coffeeshops where you can openly buy marijuana, hash, and mushrooms as well as getting a decent breakfast after a night of debauchery in the red-light district. The laws are enforced differently there, and it is working for them.

I don't know if it would work as well here. Our government tends to like being obtrusive-- amongst our legislators, it is popular to legislate morality and assume that we are basically incapable of anything.

Also, a lot of the guys are married or otherwise contained, and even if it were completely legal, the wife(s) wouldn't like it much.

Yep, agree with the wife issue.  Although, I know my wife and those of a few guys I've worked with wouldn't be too thrilled about the strip club visits either...

How often have you travelled overseas and what were your experiences?  

In both Brussels and Tel-Aviv the folks I was with seemed amazingly open about it (especially in Isreal), kindof a "Lets grab a bite and then head down to the red light for the night" kindof thing (rhymes not intentional).  I've never experienced that in Italy, or UK. And only once in France.  And it's legal and open in all of those places.  Visits to Amsterdam have always just been to make connections to NW, so I'm usually on my own and just grab a room at the Krasnapolski (sp?) until my flight the next morn, haven't really spent much time with the locals.

Launce

Guess I'll chime in here too.  Our legislators and the masses all feel it is their role in life to impose their value system and morals on everyone else...although they freak if the same is done to them.  It's a two-faced system and society...smoking is evil...yet if they got everyone to actually quit smoking their would be a louder sucking sound from the missed tax dollars they gain from it than the sound of a bazillion smokers inhaling at the exact same moment.  

Sex is great for TV news and shows, marketing and everything else...but the hobby is viewed as evil or something to label others as a deviant.  And, even in those places progressive enough to embrace a more open sexuality, it is marketed by those enjoying their profession as a freak show.  Any of you ever been to the CES/AVN show in Vegas or seen how they work the red light districts abroad?  It's open for those who want to participate, but you get the feeling you are entering the Ringling Brothers tent just to peek in and see, whether or not you plan to participate after you enter.

Society is not likely to change any time soon...and I won't lose a lot of sleep over that because I know we need law and order and boundaries or people will push it even farther beyond what is tolerable to one another.  But I consider us lucky in the sense that we are open and honest with ourselves over our own sexuality...even if we can't shout it out to the world without it looking like a freak show or an episode of Springer.

Enjoy your weekend out there all.  

Well thanks Launce, I always keep up with you boys.lol  I am back but not in full swing just yet.  Im a girl that cant sit still!! :0  Im too naughty to stay away!!hehehe