Hello all.  I feel a bit uncomfortable posting about this.  Not because I lack the courage of my convictions, but because I’ve taken pride in not getting involved in what I’ve termed the “schoolyard squabbles” that can occur within this community.  I have to say, though, that this seems to have gone beyond the general scratching and hissing that I stay away from.  

For whatever it’s worth (and given my obvious lack of contributions here, I can imagine that it may not be worth much) I had to make my experiences with MDL known, especially after I saw that someone had pointed that providers hadn’t stood up for him.  Boy did I feel like a coward when I read that.

So, it is with my cowardly head hung low that I tell you that the times I’ve spent with MDL have been very gentle, with no need to ever tell him “no” to anything.  I never had to ask him to be polite, gentle, or in any other way to back off even a bit.  This is not because I’m a rough girl.  It’s because he has consistently asked me how do I like this, how do I feel about that, is this okay…he’s always been very cautious with me, and concerned for my comfort and enjoyment.

I’ve kept out of this because the last thing I ever want to do is put into question a woman who says she’s been manhandled by anyone.  I’ve been the woman in question before, and it’s unjust.  Most of us would never fabricate that kind of story, and I don’t believe, by the way, that it was fabricated here either.  The words “rough treatment” can be perceived in a few different ways, from meaning a few unwanted cervical thumps, all the way to the unthinkable extreme.  I wasn’t there--I can't take sides, and moreover, I don’t believe there are “sides” to take in this matter.  The two parties in question seem to have decided to be on the same side, or at least on mutually agreeable terms.  If she emails anything different to me, I’ll quickly retract my words.  If she tells me that “rough treatment” meant that he was abusive in any way, I’ll be on her “side” in a heart beat.  Suzanne: I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

That said, I do want to flatly state that my experiences with MDL have been that yes, he’s got a large ego (which I’ve said to him) and many [most?] of us do.  And yes, he does get a kick out of the obvious influence that he has in this community. That seems to make him a great target, yet it doesn’t really point to a personality that we can assume is or will become abusive.  To me he seems downright amused with his influence, rather than the power trip some people seem to view in him.

Okay, done.  That’s my 10¢.

~Taylor

My own time with Taylor was wonderful and she absolutely let me know what was fun and what was not and what was not, was not even asked twice on my part. No is no! A true asset to our hobbying community.

-- Modified on 6/27/2004 8:41:04 PM

What happened is not up for a vote.  Your opinions, and for that
matter anyone who was not there really don't matter.

The previous threads entailed a discussion mainly to supply
proof and because it was brought to light at first by a third
party.  Also, there was a discussion about apologies in the
aftermath.

Perhaps your experiences with MDL were fine.  It's not relavent
in this case because obviously, Suzanne's wasn't.

fr

Frankie

As you state "Your opinions, and for that
matter anyone who was not there really don't matter."  

maybe you should BACK OFF and let it rest. Taylor does NOT desrve this type of back lash.  Maybe you should take your advice.  For someone that was NOT there, you seem to have all the answers.  I does seem to be apparent is that you like to run off at the mouth alot!  I will stake my reputation along with any review posted as to how I am with providers.  As Misty stated, I can have see numerous Local, traveling agentcies and independent providers, some of them numerous times.

Ovbviously YOU seem to be the only one that wants to continue with this torch burning conquest. One would also wonder whay you have SO MANY opinions but no reviews posted?  Is that to hide your behavior, or that you are asahamed to post reviews?  Maybe you should find a new conquest in life.  I for one am getting tired of your BS inuendo and assumptions!


-- Modified on 6/27/2004 9:31:15 PM

maybe you should have your eyes checked as your vison seems to be quite impaired!

You weren't there right?  I can only conclude that your opinion doesn't matter either.  Why do you keep bringing it up then?  I find it peculiar that you seem to be far angrier about this than Suzanne.

Frankie,

I'm going to ask a very direct question at the end of this and am hoping for a very succinct, direct answer.

Please don't sidestep this post with counter-accusation about me denying this happened (I have not) or that I'm not taking the original incident seriously.  I took it far more seriously, and applied far more sweat and hours in taking it seriously than I believe anyone else has.  I promise you, I came into this with the belief that we had a hobbyist we needed to root out, not with the intent of picking sides or clearing someone's name.  But the facts presented to me, almost entirely by providers, has made it clear to me that this was not as it seemed.  This IS a serious matter.  But the facts just haven't borne out that the problem is as deep or as wide as anyone has implied it would be, hence my only reason for having jumped into the fray.

Just the facts:
Suzanne appears to have accepted this as not being a threat of violence.  Not one other accusation made has been first-person, not one.  A number of anecdotal accusations were made by people who had never seen MDL, and in EVERY case, the providers to whom the rumors were attributed emphatically denied the rumors to me. I've been out askin', but I am yet to hear from one provider who has met MDL and would not see him again.  Not one.  I've spelled all of this out in previous detailed posts, so I won't rehash here.

You're obviously not going to let go of this, so just tell us what you want.  What do you want to have happen?  How do you want this matter resolved?  He apologized, but that was dismissed as being forced.  Suzanne weighed in, but not good enough.  Other providers have made assurances that there's no pattern here, but not good enough.

There must be some outcome that will satisfy you, some end to this that will make you say "finally, justice has been served here and this thing concluded exactly the way I always dreamed it would."  What is that?  You are clearly not getting what you want, just be candid and forthright about what that is.

If the real issue is that you're frustrated that this does not appear to have diminished MDL's reputation as much as you had hoped, that's fine, step up to the plate and have the courage to admit that.  If it's something else, please be frank (no pun intended) and candid with us about what that is.

Please, don't go into debating what happened or what constitutes abuse...  Those are worthy topics that certainly can be discussed, but I'm trying to focus on one specific question here.  I'm looking for a candid answer that isn't about sheep or denial or me not taking this seriously.

I'm begging, I'm pleading with you here...  no side topics, no accusations, no introduction of peripheral issues, no restatement of facts, but instead a succint stand-alone answer, a couple of sentences or paragraphs that answer "what is it you want?" and nothing more.  We'll get back to debating the other issues as vigorously as you see fit but I'm trying to narrow in on a specific answer here.

"Perhaps your experiences with MDL were fine.  It's not relavent
in this case..."

It most certainly is relevant.  The only reason for this being a public debate instead of a private one...  The ONLY reason, was that Michelle was led to believe by others that this constituted a pattern of escalating abuse, a concern that has not proven out, in fact, the facts in evidence are overwhelmingly, no, unanimously to the contrary.

"Your opinions, and for that matter anyone who was not there really don't matter."

Are you saying that the airing of public accusations against a hobbyist are an appropriate use of this form, while public statements defending them are not?  Wow, that's gonna be a tough sell here, even among those whose sentiments are "anti-MDL."

I don't know if you are local or not, you've never posted here in MN before this incident.  If not, I might point out that Taylor is one of only a tiny number of local providers that has an absolutely sterling reputation among hobbyists and providers alike.  It is an amazing credit to her that she has been able to be in the local scene for as long as she has while maintaining a virtually perfect reputation for professionalism, and avoided being associated with any of the many controversies that have cropped up.


-- Modified on 6/28/2004 12:35:16 AM

Taylor:

Thank you for your input. It means a lot to me and I hope others.

You see, I happen to know MDL and have talked extensively with him regarding this whole matter.  I will say this, he has been willing to tell it all. PM him if you don't believe me.

I will also say that based on my humble years of being around this hobby (only for a year or so on TER), there is another angle to this whole story that has not come out.

That of greed, feeling less than, and as always the need by people to be noticed, talked about and to gain publicity.

Publicity whether good or bad creates awareness. We forget quickly whether it was bad or good.

Now MDL has been public and right out there for a long time.

So, examine this whole situation and try to keep it simple, because it is.....Go back to the beginning of all of this, and see who benefited from this 'barnyard squabble'!

Actually, if it wasn't for Suzanne and MDL having to be the subject of the discussion, it might be somewhat amusing. No, I think abuse is very serious.  But, this doesn't appear to be the case. Real abuse is ugly, dangerous, and creates victims, real victims....I don't sense that in this case. What I do sense is the need to exaggerate, sensationalize, and gain one upsmanship. This has occurred in a very narrow way.

The input from Taylor is just one slice, but, I suspect, no I feel assured that if other providers spoke up, that input would be very similar.

I for one now know where I will not go in the future!!!? Think about that!

Thanks to this board for allowing input.  Input of all types.

Again, thanks Taylor for setting one angle of the record straight.

Remember this, I think.....Lepords don't change their spots, Zebras keep their stripes. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, I'm pretty sure it's a duck and going to remain a duck.  MDL's behavior, over a long period of time has not presented a problem. I suspect that will remain the case no matter how much people try to change the nature of the animal.

Hangin

-- Modified on 6/28/2004 5:01:59 AM

-- Modified on 6/28/2004 11:26:50 AM

Unless some videotape from a hidden camera surfaces we will never know what EXACTLY occured. MDL and Suzanne have settled their differences.

Judging by MDLs long track record with a number of providers he certainly has earned the benefit of the doubt. Meeting a provider (from hello to naked in 10 minutes or less) opens a whole Pandora's box of potential misunderstandings.

Unless further incidents occur let's consider this thing settled and over and done with. There is nothing here to be gained. Any provider that is uncomfortable seeing MDL can make her own choice.

Factor

Frankie:

Your relevance to this whole issue has become meaningless to me.

You have certainly created an awareness of yourself. My thoughts are also that the awareness you are seeking is bordering on painting you as someone that as a beautiful provider has said "you made your point, but now that has become your only point!"

So over using and talking about your point is close to making you pointless!!! I guess there is some irony in that!!

Hangin

Frankie,

I have to take issue with your post here - Taylor's opinions and experiences are as relevant as anyone else', if not only to show it isn't a pattern with all providers MDL has seen.  Continuation of accusations aren't going to get anyone anywhere - it has been laid out in a public forum, anyone who checks the boards once a week hass seen it - there is no reason to keep on hashing it out.  The house of public opinion has made it's decision, whether you, or I , or Omega, or anyone else likes it or not - and we don't know what that opinion is because only a small few are vocal on this board.

My main goal in these threads has been to promote provider safety, although it may have taken me a post or two to really get that point across in the long run.  What I do see is the further this string goes on, the more it looks like you are fanatically trying to ruin someone specific's reputation, and the more you do that, the more it looks unfounded and that his name will be exonerated, justifiably or not.  

The best thing to do right now is drop it - the people that need to know what happened already do - the providers have their own network of keeping themselves safe, and if MDL or anyone else poses a serious threat, then it is up to individual provider to make that determination.  If she feels uncomfortable during a session it is her responsibility to get out, much less to remember that she does have the right to leave if she feels threatened.  

Tayor, I respect you for coming out with your opinion, it isn;t easy for a provider to inject herself into a thread such as this; however, I do stand by my statement that it would be far more difficult for someone on the other side of the issue to come forward.  All we can hope for is that any ladies that may have checked these posts out will at the very least feel more comfortable in saying no, or getting out.  Trust your instincts, check your references, and always put your safety FIRST - after money, after fun, after absolutely everything.  

Gentlemen, I hope that these threads have made you think a little bit about your own practices.  Have you done everything you can to make it a pleasurable experience for both people involved?  Are you behaving in the same manner you would want your wife/daughter/sister to be subjected to if she were a provider?  Are you showing up on time, leaving on time, not expecting unreasonable things, showering, etc?  There are plenty of things for EVERYONE to consider here - not just one person.

Sincerely signed,
The Outsider

"What happened is not up for a vote.  Your opinions, and for that matter anyone who was not there really don't matter."

Well since you were not there does this mean your opinion doesn't matter?

It seems to me that if MDL adn Suzanne are ok with the status quo, then the subject deserves to fade away.

J

Well Taylor, after reading the whole long string that developed upon your words on behalf of MDL I'll bet you wonder if maybe your humble .10 maybe should have been limited to a .02 message.  As you know, I am the king of verbosity.  But I do want to commend you for voicing what you have experienced with the gentleman tied to the stake.  It doesn't happen often that a provider gives a personal testimonial of her own experiences with one of us.  It was very altruistic of you that you spoke up while keeping an open mind to what you do not know.  Kudos to you, Taylor.  Hopefully, your example will rub off on all of us in this community.

Chipper

Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one - - - and frankie's stinks!