I have wondered many times why Minnesota is so different from other states/cities.
We are constantly afraid that the boogeyman is right around the corner.
Stings happen in other cities, but people do not hide forever. They wise up and screen better. Here we become nervous about every single thing, including an innocent ice-cream social.
For some reason, it seems we can’t post things on our board that are readily accepted on other boards without a rush of fear filled reply posts. Now before you answer it is because we had a “sting” last June, there are stings everywhere. Correct? And for the most part, we were all ok. Right?
So, why are we so different?
Of course it is important to be safe, but the overly paranoid attitude here can be overwhelming. It would be nice to figure out how to rid our board of this unfortunate mindset.
Thank you for the input on how to fix this problem.
MSP is has a pretty small hobby community, it doesn't take too long to get an idea who everyone is even if you haven't met them. This means any hit can be taken personally if you knew someone hit. The last sting hit some people everyone knew.
Minnesota also has a small town culture. The embarrassment factor is larger here than say New York or California. If my name ran in the paper here, people would know. I worked in CA for 2 years and if something hit the papers there, (very unlikely) I doubt anyone I knew would have even noticed.
That said, I have been to mixers in CA and SLC, Utah (yep!) and they have always been safe and fun. If you went to Manny's and had dinner next to Tom Petters or Denny Hecker do you think the cops wold be looking for you? Nope. So if I go to an event that has strippers and massage therapists and there are rumors that some do more than massage what can the LE do? If I don't do anything other than talk, they've got nothing.
The Supreme Court just affirmed that we still have free speech in this country. If you host a murder mystery party can they arrest you for talking about murder? If I talk to a lovely lady about sex and I doing anything different than Dr. Ruth or Dr. Drew?
Use your head and mixers can be safe and fun.
being safe and screening has nothing to do with publicized groups/parties.
attending out of state parties is a good idea, I have in the past. They're fun.
the other two states that recently were intruded on while having a party haven't recovered yet.
I like to think I've learned from the past. Maybe nothing will happen, but I just don't want to be there if it does. The last party broken up was a fund raiser in TX and media was there to film.
Riley is right, our town isn't big enough. I have yet to hear of a party bust in Chicago, LA or NY
"I have yet to hear of a party bust in Chicago, LA or NY"
That is probably because they DO screen.
"The last party broken up was a fund raiser in TX and media was there to film."
That is probably because they did NOT screen.
Xoxo.
I don't know if they screened everyone or not.
To clarify, I'm not comfortable at this time with publicized parties, whether screening is done or not. I love parties, wish I felt comfy enough to attend.
You asked for opinions and it's a good discussion. We all have to do what we feel is in our best interest.
If the so-called mixer/party/social event is nothing but a bunch of people getting together in a bar and getting friendly, why would you need to "screen" anyone? Nothing illegal about that in any way/shape/form.
If the mixer has an undertone of setting appointments/sessions or getting some quickies or other extras then that would require screening and would be a very bad idea. It is one thing to set something up with a reputable provider/hobbyist through email or phone and do the session in private, quite another to do all that in public.
Sorry but the whole idea of having a bunch of providers and hobbyists having a big old party and whooping it up is just asking for trouble.
b-
You want to screen because you want to be confident that the people you meet, most or all of whom you have never met before, are not LE because it is simply much more comfortable that way. Having been to M&Gs in the past, I can say personally that I would not have been nearly as comfortable if I was concerned that the person next to me might be LE even though I wasn't doing anything more than having a drink and talking about the events of the day.
I don't remember any parties being busted here.
If everyone is verified what is the real problem here: paranoia?
please re-read my original post
they are not exactly "publicized" ...usually the date is known ahead of time. But the EXACT time and location is not given out until a few hours before the event and never public knowledge. It's only given to confirmed, verified, and screened attendees.
sounds like a reasonable measure to keep things discreet.
publicized implies one has announced something in an public forum.
I'm not paranoid, nor do I think any others are within this thread.
I don't think I'm going to change the minds of those interested in a party any more than I think you'll change the minds of those who are cautionary.
-- Modified on 1/22/2010 6:33:59 PM
It will just take some careful and diligent screening.
I can certainly understand the stigma resulting from recent events, but eventually someone will start a M&G in MN.
This can all be done UTR, without any catchy announcements.
Quote from Douglas Adams
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
Why the PUBLIC FORUM? Why the need to broadcast your plans?
You don't have enough clients to make your own get together? Is this just a promotional stunt?
Would it really be worth making yourself a target of LE?
No one denies that a quiet down low party is the better way to go. Why keep publicly complaining about the criticism? You are being criticized because you keep being PUBLIC.
Every person that is caught in a sting, that has any kind of connection that the media can exploit is paraded through the media without the benefit of being found guilty. Public humiliation is better for them than a court trial.
Life is too short to complain about such matters, but it is important to inquire.
Ciao!
...they have M&G's....they have stings in their cities, CL dumb asses get busted.
That "group" in Mpls was brazen & caught the eye of LE....it in particular made great headlines as well.
They Houston M&G....they did not screen, the people who were busted had drugs on them & providers were soliciting @ the party, ie...dumb asses.
similar in size to Miami. If your M&G is well screened, no drugs & no grab ass @ the party, in the bathroom, in the parking lot, you will be fine, it's a private party. P4P is arranged before or after the party, in between, it's fun & networking for future play dates. Those who don't have dates afterwards went dancing @ a club afterwards, providers/hobbyist, then say or kiss goodbye w/bucket list filled for the next year to work on.
Don't go if you don't want to, don't rain on the others plans though.
Chill, be safe & have fun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population
And the dancing at the club after the party was tons of fun. What a meet and greet!
The M&G in Tampa that I went to was a blast, made some new friends, a bunch of us went out for dinner afterwards, and all of the playtime was pre-arranged before the party.
Agreed Riley and some others have said the same. Problem is there is a chance , especially since most of the time drinks are involved, that someone might now use their head and there-by blow it for everyone or at least at the next one. If be fine if you could trust everyone to be alert and conscientious and help to make it work- but it never usually gos that way
After the sky fell in Phoenix a couple of years ago, the paranoia there was tremendous, and still hasn't returned to normal. In fact, their board is still a shell of what it once was. I believe that the Atlanta board experienced the same thing a few years back, and it took a long time to recover. At least your board still has some life to it, and some damn fine life at that. With your smaller market, you definitely have more of a sense of community than the cities with larger markets. When something happens in the larger cities, everyone just retreats. The people in your area seem to care more on a personal level, and want what's best for the community, as a whole.
And I agree that if they are properly run, M&G's are quite safe. They are nothing more than a cocktail party, with friends making new friends. A couple of good parties is probably just what you need.
Thank you for your careful thought about an issue important to our community...
And... GO VIKES! WHO DAT? THE VIKINGS!!!
The ones in CA were in bars and we once had a golf outing.
If we all agree to meet at a large bar (strip bars are good too!) some night, what can the LE do? Make it a downtown bar and we can park at ramps a few blocks away and not worry about license plates either.
If we all show up with a yellow highlighter in our pocket (we did this once in CA) we know who to talk to but we will also just be part of the crowd. We also can come up with a cover story in case we run into someone we know (Flashmob, Facebook, etc. any excuse to be talking to a woman you don't know that well.)
A bit of thinking and I think we can all meet very safely, as long as we behave.
The one I went to in Vegas was awesome. We ate dinner at a fancy restaurant then went to a bar for fun. Some of the guys played pool and the rest of us listened to the bar owner play guitar and sing. Allure got up and sang...she has an amazing voice and really belt out a tune! We sang along and we all had a great time drinking and schmoozing and flirting.
There was NO hanky panky. And if anyone drank too much...they were given a ride or a taxi was called. It was a great time and a safe night with responsible adults.
Like I've said before, there is nothing wrong with a group of friends getting together for appetizers and drinks!!!!
Hugs, Belinda
In reference to the twin cities being a smaller market, it has little to do with population and more to do with the fact that there are a healthy number of people in this market whose families have been here for generations. I know neighbors who live within blocks from where they grew up, so in that respect this is often considered a big city with a small town atmosphere. That translates into a closer eye on the "sins" of the city. I moved here from out of state and that is my two cents. That being said I agree with GML.
This would work, Riley. Thank you! There's no law against friends meeting for some real fun. None.
By the way, Go Vikes!
(Off to read now.)
"Paranoids are not paranoids (Proverb 5) because they're paranoid, but because they keep putting themselves, fucking idiots, deliberately into paranoid situations."--Thomas Pynchon,"Gravity's Rainbow"
"We call them fools
Who have to dance within the flame
Who chance the sorrow and the shame
That always comes with getting burned"
"But you've got to be tough when consumed by desire
'Cause it's not enough just to stand outside the fire"
...
"Life is not tried, it is merely survived
If you're standing outside the fire"
- Garth Brooks "Standing Outside the Fire"
I think the reality right now is people are too nervous about anything that is posted publicly. It doesn't matter whether that concern is truly justified, people feel that way and it will take time to change. A pure M&G is of course perfectly legal but people simply don't like the idea that LE might show up even though it's a legal activity.
For now at least I think any gatherings need to be arranged strictly by back channels.
I see a recurring theme, "friends". Everyone is talking about getting together with friends for a fun night out. Do you really consider each other friends?
I know everyone's personal definition of friend is different, but I would at the very least think that a friend is someone who knows who you are. Hanging out with providers (who I am sure will not use their names) and other hobbyists, do you know who they are? Will there be a sharing of life stories, or just a bunch of horny people hanging out, drinking (or not if so inclined) and then parting ways after a few hours?
No hanky panky taking place, that would be smart especially in a public setting, but then why meet with a provider (or providers) anywhere if there is to be no hanky panky? I could maybe see it if a few select providers and hobbyists who know each other and have for a long time want to maybe get together for a dinner or something because they have developed a friendship, but to have a public invite to get screened to participate and meet people you don't even know and will never know, that is just strange in my opinion.
b-
And it wouldn't make sense for you to go to one. Nothing wrong with that of course but other people don't see it like you do. Some people enjoy them. Some wouldn't go even if you paid them.
Different strokes for different folks thing. You all have fun if and when you get a M&G together.
b-
I like the idea, and would consider attending if I trusted and could verify that the screening was suitable. I think there are enough willing participants around to make it work...
>t
