Recently, and according to certain posts I've become more aware that hobbyists prefer to NOT have to go through the providing references drill.

Personally I find it disturbing.  BUT....like water....it will flow through the least path of resistance.  I'm just wondering how many (if it can be quantified) meetings have I and my brethren sisters we've missed because of what I'll call "carelessness" of those who think with the little head?

Well the N is right next to the M.  Forgive me.  I do have pride of authorship.  

-- Modified on 1/20/2010 3:56:44 PM

Marie,

Do you mean how many "meetings" you (and other providers) missed because we didn't want to go through the reference drill or we never followed through because references were not asked from us?

Sorry, but just a clarification needed.

...that can not be answered...like how many licks it takes to get to the center of

whats a referemces?

If a woman wants to get references, that certainly is her right and perogative.  However, of the hundreds of providers in the Twin Cities, only a handful require references of any sort.  And, frankly, many of those women provide top level services. I know many men on here think that because a a few well known providers require references, that that must be the norm.

It is interesting that the largest Law
Enforcement dust up, involved a reference service, and women who only see men with references.  

It is rare to see any LE activities with the women who are less demanding.  

And, the arguement that men are taking their chances,  ]when seeing women who don't require references, is bunk.  Its easy to just read TER and decide who is for real and who isn't.  

Again, before everyone jumps in to be critical, I say that if a woman wants to get references, that is her decision, and, if it works for her, she should stick to it.  

But, I am just not going to bother giving out all sorts of information, and then hoping that everything checks out in a few days or weeks.  
I'll just call one of the providers who doesn't make me jump through hoops, and get an appointment right away.  

Just My 7 cents.

Both are good questions!  My main concern is that some hobbyists seem to prefer to play Russian roulette in choosing whom to visit.  I'm extremely concerned (as should you) if references weren't asked for.

Yes dear.

We have all typed the occasional typo or misspelling.  No big deal.

I know I have definitely missed meeting some fine (and not so fine) gentlemen due to some who have resistance to provide references, for whatever reason.  However, I just let it slide, figuring it was not "meant to be."  They are welcome to move onto the next woman, one who does not bother to screen, and if that is their preference, then good luck with that, lol.  

There are those who truly want to see ME, and that is flattering.  I love to get the "proper" and polite email.  You know. The one that starts out with the polite question asking to see you, then provides all pertinent information, maybe even a little personal information about the type of person they are.  That is always helpful and appreciated. Those who have done their homework.

When I finally meet this type of person, the experience is usually as wonderful as the email was organized and thoughtful.

I cannot quantify how many I have "lost" this way, but I am sure a good number. I feel uneasy if someone is that resistant to providing me with the required information, so they are then more than welcome to move on.  I also figure if they do not want to "work" very hard to give me the information I require, they did not really want to see me, specifically, but just any provider who will not require them to do their homework. I hope that makes sense.

considering a lot of men want to see a lady right away & don't care if the find her on CL, BP or CV.  I would guess your missing out on quite a few men.
both parties have to feel comfortable with the screening process & I think what makes it hard is waiting for references to checkout.
if more guys pre-screened & then at a later date decided they wanted to see a gal, then it won't be so hard to find someone last minute, I'm just sayin.
Jae

Almost everyone I known requires references and almost all men who have written to me either provide references or ask what type of information I require.  

Those few who have been resistant did not write back to me, but I would say that over 95 percent are happy to comply.  I have never heard of someone that opposed to providing the means to make both parties feel safe.  No offense to anyone who prefers not to give their info, I am just very surprised to hear this.  I assumed this was the norm, and most who send a note to my email do, too.

I guess i wouldn't worry about it, Marie. The question you should ask yourself is, Are those the types of men you want to spend time with?
As you have said, you are open to creative ways of determining if a potential playmate is safe.
Hot women have made men jump thru hoops since time began.
For those that have seen the "handful" of providers that demand references, it should be easy to verify they are on the level. For those that haven't....
When I am ready to experience the thrill ride that is Marie, I will not only jump through the hoop, I'll ask you to light it on fire first.
Again, just a guy with one review adding his humble thoughts.

Interesting stance you have.

May I suggest that you review the site that one of my peers began.  It is a site (and I wish that I had the link at my finger tips) whereby providers who were "busted" gave their details of what went down.  Being the analyzer that you appear to be.....you'll certainly see that most went down to LE because they DIDN'T screen.

Apparently you are willing to chance it.  Yes?  I know that there are many out there who appreciate the fact that some of us do.

My .02 fwiw:

It's not a level playing field.  Consumers of this service have TER; a provider here with a profile of lots of reviews by guys who have in turn done a lot of reviews can reduce the risk taken by a new client acceptably (at least for me) close to zero.  

The providers don't have the equivalent of that, at least not until the whitelist system gets a lot more robust than it seems to be now.  I don't blame any provider for requiring references.  For the first one I saw, I bit the bullet and gave the full real life info that's the norm with no references.  Since then, I've gotten by fine on provider references that work off email and screen names, and there's no way I'd give more than that out now.  

I think you'd be crazy not to get them and check them out; a request for them doesn't faze me.  A lack of a request for them doesn't bother me as long as the provider is a known quantity here.

So she gives out the location to a totally anonymous phone number, and then at the last minute the guy simply never shows up.  

Now the location is known to somebody, but we don't know who.  That thought just nags at me......

QUOTE It is interesting that the largest Law
Enforcement dust up, involved a reference service, and women who only see men with references.  

It is rare to see any LE activities with the women who are less demanding. UNQUOTE

MyFastPass was not the cause of the LE "dustup" in June. That was caused by the Minnesota Nice Guys, a group of men who were allegedly soliciting women to cross state lines for immoral purposes. If proven, that is a federal offense.

MyFastPass was collateral damage of the MNG bust because some of the MNGs were also in MyFastPass. The lady who ran MyFastPass did most everything right. She was outed in the newspapers, unfortunately, but was never charged with a crime and no member of MFP has suffered any harm unless because he was one of the MNGs.

Any attempt to imply that MyFastPass caused the LE "dust up" in June is pure bullshit.

QUOTE Of the hundreds of providers in the Twin Cities, only a handful require references of any sort.

It is rare to see any LE activities with the women who are less demanding. UNQUOTE

Of the hundreds of providers in the Twin Cities, it is not at all clear how many are really aware of TER. Without this community, or one like it, providers really have no way to network so they can obtain references. So far as I can tell, most of the women who are aware of the reference system are happy to use it. There are exceptions, to be sure, and some are well reviewed.

The off hand suggestion that most LE activity involves women who require references strikes me as more bullshit.

Before anyone jumps in to be critical, I say that if a man doesn't want to give references, that is his decision, and, if it works for him, he can stick to it.

For me, I'd rather see women with the brains and self-respect to take reasonable precautions for their own safety.

Frankly, I am not creating any more risk seeing a provider who demands references, than one who doesn't.  There is no reason to believe that taking references will protect either party, when LE decides they want to bust someone in particular.  In minneapolis, other than the dust up last year, most of the busts are street hookers, underage women or have drugs or something else illegal involved.  

I only see women who are reviewed, local, and not underage.  And, as far as gentleman appreciating women who require references, I have a hard time believing that most men ONLY those women.  If you look at the reviews, I don't think you will find anyone who sticks purely with  someone with that requirement.  There is just too much temptation to stick with the dozen or so women who have that strict requirement.  

They may tell you they appreciate it, but certainly when the urge is there, they just go see who they want to, and are probably happy that they can get in right away instead of having to wait for the "all clear".  

So, you asked if you are missing business. And, my answer is that you are only missing the business of men who know that the level of service or safety isn't based on the difficulty of the arrangment.

Now this is just my 23cents worth.

Well none of the ladies I've seen so far have asked (not even Alissa), and I was worried they would, because I don't have any references.

Maybe an old question, but what to do if someone does not have a reference?  Shop elsewhere and find someone who will provide one?

We would check out the site if you'd give a url for it.

Marie-

I am familiar with that site.  I believe however that it was the *providers* who were busted because they didn't screen, not the hobbyists.  So, it's doubtful that people who choose not to use providers that screen (like realp4u) wouldn't change their stance.  That being said, I have seen both screening and non-screening providers (under this screen name and prior one I used before June 2009) and it just depends who I want to see.  In fact, I allowed YOU to screen me way back when, using my work website and real name - although at the time we did not ultimately meet - but it wasn't because you screened me - I decided to take a break around that time.

I know I've missed a lot, but oh well, my safety first.

Everyone is going to play their own game;  hobbiests and providers.  Whatever works for them.

I have a question though.

When you guys want to see a traveling lady, how do you get around not giving her any screening information?

For instance:

AZ Terri: "I DO REQUIRE REFERENCES"

Naughty Nympho:  "2 provider references"

TipTop Tiffany (Apres Vous):  "be prepared to be verified"

Summer Sin:  "IF U HAVE 2 PROVIDER REFERENCES YOU DO "NOT" HAVE TO FILL OUT YOUR HOME OR WORK INFO"

Jordin (Perfect Ten):  "2 references"

Amber Ashley:  "3 Provider References"

Arielle Lace:  "Screening is mandatory"  She gives three ways to do it.

Just wondering.

Hugs,
D.

I am not opposed to references but find it difficult to satisfy the requirement because I hobby so infrequently (1-2 times a year, maybe), so provider references are old, and I am self-employed/sole proprietor.  I've considered joining a service (411 or date check, but run into the same issue with them).  Otherwise, I'm for whatever keeps everyone safe.

but it takes two to play this game last time I checked!!!

Don't you suppose WE ladies would kinda like to know that the guy she is inviting into her personal space and boundaries is NOT LE??   How we supposed to do that WITHOUT references or other screening?  Hmmmmmmmmm????  

I think it is important that we watch out for each other in this hobby of ours.  We are keeping each other out of the newspaper and jail by doing so.  

my .02 cents.
Belinda

I understand why ladies ask for them, and agree that it is a good practice, but in the beginning what is a guy to do? Until you GET some references, there isn't much choice in the matter. Thank goodness there are some good choices when it comes to starting out.

As some of you know, I'm relatively new to the hobby. Now, I'm not sure I'm brave enough to see someone that isn't reviewed yet. So for me, I saw someone that was recommended by others as well as lots of good reviews. I didn't feel threatened that I wasn't asked for references. I'll do the same for the next 1, 2, 3, 4 or however many it takes before I have spent enough time with the right ladies to be accepted in the "references required" club.

There is, however, a couple of providers that I really want to see that are in that "club". I'm patiently waiting on that until I've spent some time with other ladies I feel safe with and, hopefully, will vouch for me.

I signed up with the verification sites and have no problem initially providing any info needed for that, but I'm not sure I'd want to hand it out to all that asked for it outside of those sites. That is unless, I REALLY REALLY want to see that person...but then it's, how did Marie put it...thinking with the little head, and I'd head out to make copies of my drivers license, tax returns, birth certificate, blood type, title to the car, etc. (kidding) Even then, it would have to be someone I'm sure I had nothing to worry about.

Until then, those few that are on my short "MUST SEE! (references required)" list, I'll just have to keep the big head on my shoulders, make sure I use it, and keep making the best informed decisions I can.

"The off hand suggestion that most LE activity involves women who require references strikes me as more bullshit."

yeah, me too.  

When I read about a sting where they pick up a couple of gals, it always appears they are CL or BP, and I have never read anything about the cops using references.  

There was one local provider that I saw on date-check that required 7+ references. I thought that was a bit extreme.

I think I have treated everyone fairly and I earned my white listings so I would hope that a lady checks my references.

I also like that they sometimes share info. The ladies like it when I match the description they got from another lady. The whole session starts off easier and more relaxed.

The history of went down in the summer has been overlooked or forgotten by some but it had nothing to do with using or not using references.

And I don't know how you begin to determine the ratio of arrested providers who use use references to the ratio of those who don't.  All I know is I've seldom heard of a reference checking escort having any LE problems while it's not at all uncommon to see news stories about girls who advertised on CL or BP getting busted and there's not much screening that goes on among the girls who mostly or entirely use those sites.

I believe the cops are most likely to go after easy targets or big targets.  Independent escorts who are careful in their habits are less likely to get caught IMHO.

Um..., it's not always the provider that gets busted.

So, when a provider screens, it's for your safety as well as hers.

But, again, everyone plays their own game.  Do it as you wish.

Hugs,
D.

I don't care if your thin, fat, bold, ugly, unshaven, girl or guy..

I just ask for him/her to have and be:
Clean, respectful, and he/she have a reference.

I play safe, sound and clear in my mind to enjoy what I luv SEX!

Xoxo,
Amber

Great Post Marie!  

I could give a shit about what I have missed with them not having references...that's not worth my time or energy.

Off to my Swing I go with a reference!

Kisses!

Issue 1: The style and personal preferences of the hobbiest leads them to like minded providers. E.g. The guy looking to make a call and have a quickie later that same day inevitably ends up with providers who don't need references, while the careful and methodical guy who plans ahead can figure out a way to get "approved" if they are persistent

This just seems like a natural segmentation that makes sense.

Issue 2: If your nature is a careful one you are generally safe trusting your instincts it is more likely a rigid adherence to arbitrary rules that would cause providers and hobbiests who are like minded to miss out on finding each other.

For example: If I have a a TER handle that can be verified with multiple reviews as well as a P411 ID or similar verification service with provider OK's associated with my profile then I think a logical provider could make a judgement call based on a brief back and forth email dialog. I am impressed when a provider takes this approach because to me it demonstrates genuine intelligence as opposed to just the ability to follow a set of rules.

In my case the reluctance to provide references is mainly due to the fact that it seems like a burden on the providers that should not be necessary once a certain baseline of credibility has been established.

Finally, I have tried and failed on numerous connections to connect with certain well known providers via email and they seem unable to follow through and maintain an email thread long enough to get a meeting set up. E.g. they respond once or twice then go quiet for extended periods. This is the real frustration for me as these providers seem initially to be on the same page only to flake out in the end, some of them repeatedly. Even more of a shame if they are really sexy...

I've resorted to having to spend many weeks and months and a lot of wasted effort and I am only looking to build up a small list of known acquaintances in the hopes that at some point I'll have the luxury of setting up impromptu meetings with friends.

I completely agree with the need for and value of references but like many things the devil is in the details.

...it can be helpful to include some personal info, such as a personal characteristic or physical description, to jog the memory of the provider you have already seen...

I actually believe that references should be the major verification.  If mine are current and with well respected ladies that should be enough.

Real names, pictures, place of work, what kind of car I am driving and plate number ect, ect , ect.  These are the things I don't want to hand out as business cards.

-- Modified on 1/21/2010 6:28:10 AM

Totally understand that Delilah - again, I have seen both screening and non-screening providers.  Of course hobbyists get busted, but with regard to the link you posted, how do we know that the undercover cop didn't ask for references?  I think one of realp4u's points is that just because a provider asks for references, that doesn't guarantee *his* safety.  I agree with everyone here - to each their own.  we are all ultimately responsible and accountable for our own actions.

I very much support the need for providers to screen people, safety first.

The trick is to find the right balance between screening for safety and an anal exam.

I think references are a good idea but I have often wondered what happens to the information afterwards.  Where does it go?  Certianly there isn't a person or a provider alive who can remember all this information.  So that leads me to believe that it is recorded somewhere.

Also, I think references can sometimes fly in the face of what this hobby is for many hobbyists which is a spur of the moment thing.

I saw you. And I knew you were newer so I understood why you wouldn't be able to provide me with typical verification, so I went to other methods. I had a great time with you! And hope to see you soon. Now you do have a reference because you've seen me!
Take care!

those who don't have to provide references-good for you-keep doing what you are doing and have fun doing it!

Now we are expected to provide you with where we work-where we live (sometimes) and you know we will be alone there when you come over.  That's why I check references.....has nothing to do with
any past media scrutiny or verification services
bust. I want to know that you know how to treat a woman when you are meeting with her.  You follow the rules of engagement, you leave your envelope without any drama.
The two reference system has worked for me and if I don't get them, you don't get me.  If I've missed some opportunities, oh well. You have a choice to see another who doesn't ask and go right ahead.

Thank you to those who provide them.

My question is, how do you providers remember who we are 6-12 months later?  Some of us have a common name, and we can mention other things about us, but we don't know what stands out about us in your mind.

I have a very good memory, as I suspect many ladies do.  I visit with a limited number of gentlemen who often become friends. It's hard to forget a friend!  Even if I have only met someone once and it was awhile back, I rarely forget a face.  There is almost always something special and unique about a person or something delightful that sparks a memory.