I believe the commandment reads "Thou shall not covet another man's wife". Since I believe that many providers aren't married, then it would appear that many of us are safe. A technicality I realize - in my next life I'll go to law school.
I feel the warmth of G-d's presence almost every day. I do not believe he is the angry all knowing entity that will send all of us to Hell. He loves all of his children - I think So I am with Vorlon on this.
Prostitution is legal in many parts of the world - including places you wouldn't suspect - like say IRAN. (The con there is you get married for a hour. The license "fees" go to the Mullahs. I am not making it up).
As I wrote in the earlier post, if my wife was more willing to do certain things, I'd have no reason to cheat. I did and still do feel a bit guilty, but I would be angry and very unhappy if I didn't use the services of a professional escort once in a while.
I have mentioned to more than one escort that if wives could satisfy their husbands, there would be a lot less business for the escorts.
So, maybe a little bit of unhappiness that I have to cheat, but overall I am a much better partner since I went down this path.
IATJ
Posted By: vorlon
Posted By: Cates45
Do we find it difficult to segregate our feelings and mainly, our actions by not being devoted to one person “til death do you part”? Do we still cling to the teachings from childhood and societal “norms” throughout our formative years that: a man and a woman are supposed to meet, date, and marry at an early age. They are to remain faithful to each other, “forsaking all others”. Does something happened along the way toward that “utopia” that causes us to say “phuck it…..all bets are off, and I’m phucking everything that moves”? “Till death do you part”. Tis written into the marriage vows. Never a thought given to the reality that you could be marrying someone like that Sears battery; a Die Hard. So you have to wait until the other half dies before you taste another???? Who thought of that?
We are brought up a certain way and even if we end up rejecting those beliefs, I believe they still influence for all our lives. Would I like to have an intimate, romantic long term relationship with a woman that satisfies me sexually? Yes. Would that preclude my seeing escorts. Probably but that depends on exactly how this hypothetical woman and I make our relationship work. I certainly wouldn't rule out a monogamous relationship if it works for both of us, even one that does last until one or the other dies. There is nothing inherently wrong with doing things that way.
But for me it is all theoretical because I have no SO and feel no concerns over enjoying the charms of the many lovely escorts I have seen. My only worry keeping this part of my life separate from the other part because of the possible legal, economic, and social penalties.
Posted By: Cates45
The intent of this thread is to provoke varying thoughts on the above. Is multiple phucking okay for us without fear of burning in hell? Is it okay to teach our kids and/or other young folks (upon mental maturity) that the very thing that we’re doing is okay and not verboten as we were taught (subliminally or otherwise)? It is realized that we are supposed to be clandestine with our goings-on here due mainly to the criticism and legalities we’d face if we came out of the closet. Still are we being hypocrites?
I don't believe for a moment that God is concerned with how many sex partners I have so I don't think I'm going to hell for it either. To me, that whole idea that you will be condemned to an eternity of torment for for having sex to someone to whom you are not married is completely irrational.
As far as acceptance of what we do in the larger society goes, while it would be lovely I don't expect it in my lifetime. It would be a huge sign of progress simply to get to the point of having it decriminalized. I'm not going to speak openly and publicly in favor of it; hypocritical or not I'm not willing to pay the price that would go along with that. But I do now and then talk with others in general terms about what behavior I think should be legal and why I think a truly free society should not be on that allows its citizens only to do things the majority finds acceptable.
This thread is spawned from a thread earlier this week. I’d like for us all to expound a bit more in the general sense. I know that we may be a lot more liberal in our thoughts…..lest not we’d be here reading, and responding on The Erotic Review.
Ooookay here we go:
Do we find it difficult to segregate our feelings and mainly, our actions by not being devoted to one person “til death do you part”? Do we still cling to the teachings from childhood and societal “norms” throughout our formative years that: a man and a woman are supposed to meet, date, and marry at an early age. They are to remain faithful to each other, “forsaking all others”. Does something happened along the way toward that “utopia” that causes us to say “phuck it…..all bets are off, and I’m phucking everything that moves”? “Till death do you part”. Tis written into the marriage vows. Never a thought given to the reality that you could be marrying someone like that Sears battery; a Die Hard. So you have to wait until the other half dies before you taste another???? Who thought of that?
I overheard a guy in junior high say that if he were a girl, he’d be the biggest “ho” on the planet. In youth, sexually active girls were sluts, whores, etc... Guys were studs, but wanted to marry a virgin. Even here on TER there are disparities in judgments of the provider with many reviews, but accolades and congratulations passed out to the guy who just reached his 1000th review. Guys do request of providers that they be the first of the day on the assumption that there will be multiples on any given day………..Hmmmmmm
Okay the stage is set.
The intent of this thread is to provoke varying thoughts on the above. Is multiple phucking okay for us without fear of burning in hell? Is it okay to teach our kids and/or other young folks (upon mental maturity) that the very thing that we’re doing is okay and not verboten as we were taught (subliminally or otherwise)? It is realized that we are supposed to be clandestine with our goings-on here due mainly to the criticism and legalities we’d face if we came out of the closet. Still are we being hypocrites?
Personally I like phucking. In the past, I subscribed to and bought into parental and societal teachings for many years. Too many! I’m reminded of a cartoon that I say in Playboy magazine years ago. There was a picture of two classically dressed street-walkers with the caption: “To think of all those years that I gave it away for free”. LOL I feel no guilt in providing a legitimate service, and loving that I do it.
What matters is what my wife would think if she caught me. It would be the end of our marriage, no questions asked, and I have known how she feels for a long time. And yes, the marriage is worth keeping. It does appear though, that the forbidden fruit is worth the risk for me and I am quite sure that I won't get caught.
As to the rest, marriage keeps order in what otherwise may be chaos. Who would raise and pay for the kids? Would the strongest bull get to hog all the cows? Aren't both sexes jealous and posessive? Anyway I can't type fast enough to participate in such a potentially long discussion.
I'd try to find a woman way more sexually adventurous. I thought that sex would be come less important as I got older and it hasn't.
I think society is slow to change and the disease angle will always be a deal killer for tons of women and not a few men. There is also the confusion of love and sex as sex is only sanctioned in a marriage which is tied to love.
I knew in college that I could have sex with women I didn't love, I thought as I matured that I'd grow out of that. That didn't happen either. I have had sex with a few old girlfriends and while the sex was great, the emotions have long cooled. We actually had some better sex as we both knew that's all it was.
Finally, how many guys are ready to watch their wife get banged by another guy? They love have sex with other women, but they like having the Mrs. to themselves.
I agree with you on the biology, but society has a long way to go before mulitple sex partners are socially acceptable for both sexes.
Do we find it difficult to segregate our feelings and mainly, our actions by not being devoted to one person “til death do you part”? Do we still cling to the teachings from childhood and societal “norms” throughout our formative years that: a man and a woman are supposed to meet, date, and marry at an early age. They are to remain faithful to each other, “forsaking all others”. Does something happened along the way toward that “utopia” that causes us to say “phuck it…..all bets are off, and I’m phucking everything that moves”? “Till death do you part”. Tis written into the marriage vows. Never a thought given to the reality that you could be marrying someone like that Sears battery; a Die Hard. So you have to wait until the other half dies before you taste another???? Who thought of that?
We are brought up a certain way and even if we end up rejecting those beliefs, I believe they still influence for all our lives. Would I like to have an intimate, romantic long term relationship with a woman that satisfies me sexually? Yes. Would that preclude my seeing escorts. Probably but that depends on exactly how this hypothetical woman and I make our relationship work. I certainly wouldn't rule out a monogamous relationship if it works for both of us, even one that does last until one or the other dies. There is nothing inherently wrong with doing things that way.
But for me it is all theoretical because I have no SO and feel no concerns over enjoying the charms of the many lovely escorts I have seen. My only worry keeping this part of my life separate from the other part because of the possible legal, economic, and social penalties.
Posted By: Cates45
The intent of this thread is to provoke varying thoughts on the above. Is multiple phucking okay for us without fear of burning in hell? Is it okay to teach our kids and/or other young folks (upon mental maturity) that the very thing that we’re doing is okay and not verboten as we were taught (subliminally or otherwise)? It is realized that we are supposed to be clandestine with our goings-on here due mainly to the criticism and legalities we’d face if we came out of the closet. Still are we being hypocrites?
I don't believe for a moment that God is concerned with how many sex partners I have so I don't think I'm going to hell for it either. To me, that whole idea that you will be condemned to an eternity of torment for for having sex to someone to whom you are not married is completely irrational.
As far as acceptance of what we do in the larger society goes, while it would be lovely I don't expect it in my lifetime. It would be a huge sign of progress simply to get to the point of having it decriminalized. I'm not going to speak openly and publicly in favor of it; hypocritical or not I'm not willing to pay the price that would go along with that. But I do now and then talk with others in general terms about what behavior I think should be legal and why I think a truly free society should not be on that allows its citizens only to do things the majority finds acceptable.
I believe the commandment reads "Thou shall not covet another man's wife". Since I believe that many providers aren't married, then it would appear that many of us are safe. A technicality I realize - in my next life I'll go to law school.
I feel the warmth of G-d's presence almost every day. I do not believe he is the angry all knowing entity that will send all of us to Hell. He loves all of his children - I think So I am with Vorlon on this.
Prostitution is legal in many parts of the world - including places you wouldn't suspect - like say IRAN. (The con there is you get married for a hour. The license "fees" go to the Mullahs. I am not making it up).
As I wrote in the earlier post, if my wife was more willing to do certain things, I'd have no reason to cheat. I did and still do feel a bit guilty, but I would be angry and very unhappy if I didn't use the services of a professional escort once in a while.
I have mentioned to more than one escort that if wives could satisfy their husbands, there would be a lot less business for the escorts.
So, maybe a little bit of unhappiness that I have to cheat, but overall I am a much better partner since I went down this path.
IATJ
Posted By: vorlon
Posted By: Cates45
Do we find it difficult to segregate our feelings and mainly, our actions by not being devoted to one person “til death do you part”? Do we still cling to the teachings from childhood and societal “norms” throughout our formative years that: a man and a woman are supposed to meet, date, and marry at an early age. They are to remain faithful to each other, “forsaking all others”. Does something happened along the way toward that “utopia” that causes us to say “phuck it…..all bets are off, and I’m phucking everything that moves”? “Till death do you part”. Tis written into the marriage vows. Never a thought given to the reality that you could be marrying someone like that Sears battery; a Die Hard. So you have to wait until the other half dies before you taste another???? Who thought of that?
We are brought up a certain way and even if we end up rejecting those beliefs, I believe they still influence for all our lives. Would I like to have an intimate, romantic long term relationship with a woman that satisfies me sexually? Yes. Would that preclude my seeing escorts. Probably but that depends on exactly how this hypothetical woman and I make our relationship work. I certainly wouldn't rule out a monogamous relationship if it works for both of us, even one that does last until one or the other dies. There is nothing inherently wrong with doing things that way.
But for me it is all theoretical because I have no SO and feel no concerns over enjoying the charms of the many lovely escorts I have seen. My only worry keeping this part of my life separate from the other part because of the possible legal, economic, and social penalties.
Posted By: Cates45
The intent of this thread is to provoke varying thoughts on the above. Is multiple phucking okay for us without fear of burning in hell? Is it okay to teach our kids and/or other young folks (upon mental maturity) that the very thing that we’re doing is okay and not verboten as we were taught (subliminally or otherwise)? It is realized that we are supposed to be clandestine with our goings-on here due mainly to the criticism and legalities we’d face if we came out of the closet. Still are we being hypocrites?
I don't believe for a moment that God is concerned with how many sex partners I have so I don't think I'm going to hell for it either. To me, that whole idea that you will be condemned to an eternity of torment for for having sex to someone to whom you are not married is completely irrational.
As far as acceptance of what we do in the larger society goes, while it would be lovely I don't expect it in my lifetime. It would be a huge sign of progress simply to get to the point of having it decriminalized. I'm not going to speak openly and publicly in favor of it; hypocritical or not I'm not willing to pay the price that would go along with that. But I do now and then talk with others in general terms about what behavior I think should be legal and why I think a truly free society should not be on that allows its citizens only to do things the majority finds acceptable.
I have read all the posts in this thread and can see myself in every one of the responses the guys have placed.
I have spent most of my life doing for others, not trying to blow my own horn or be a martyr, but I have pretty much put aside my feelings and desires to make sure others received what they needed. I am proud of my children and proud of my other activities and glad I did them.
I have reached a point in my life where I can fulfill some of my desires and wants without sacrificing other things. I agree with a previous poster on not wanting to get involved in an affair with attachments because I truly want to be selfish. In addition, I am not the most attractive man on the planet. The hobby provides me with a chance to be pampered and fulfill some of the desires, play acting or not I love the feeling of being 'served' of being treated as my desires are of the utmost importance.
Like everyone, I have met some truly wonderfully professional providers and also run into some not so good providers (Cates you are definitely in the first category and fulfilled a fantasy I had only imagined before). It is unfortunate that our society does not recognize the truly valuable service a provider and hobbyist provide for each other.
Our society tends to drive things underground that it does not want to admit exist and I do struggle with what to teach my children but I think this has been and always will be a service that is needed and will be provided.
In my college years I used to give it away freely because, quite frankly, I like to flirt, I love men, and am a very sensual human being....it's just my nature. Some people are wired that way, I believe. Nevertheless, living the "free spirit", "free love" lifestyle had it's repercussions. The boys and I had a great time, they loved me, sure. For an evening or two. But, they didn't seem to want to take me home to meet the parents... More than once I've had clients ask me where I was 20 years ago. Well, now I'm living as a free spirit again, only the financial compensation is there as a reward.
After years of wondering if I was "OK", I have grown up knowing that, yes, I am! It's OK to be a slut! I get to act out my desires, and instead of feeling guilty about sharing beautiful, wonderfully intimate moments with - OH, my Gawd- more than one partner, I feel fucking fine.
This has been a very bittersweet career for me, believe me. Leading a double life is not an easy thing to do, as you all must know...
But, I have come to realize that what I do for my profession does provide a (much needed) service. Whether that service is physical intimacy, pleasure, sexual release, conversation, travel or dinner companion, massage therapy...or just the fantasy of being in love for an hour combined with an awesome sexual encounter, the list goes on.
Nonetheless, I am aware that 95% of my clients are married, and would like to remain so. My job helps keep those marriages together without the drama and hazards of having a mistress, and risk losing what they've invested in that marriage over the years.
But, in a perfect world, those same wives that you go home to who wouldn't understand at all if "they only knew" (or dared to admit to knowing) would know that they are not loved any less just because their husbands had sex with another woman. They would know in their hearts that this is not a competition for winning the hearts of their man, and/or we can actually love more than one person!!
(sigh)....but we are all human, and that utopia has yet to be discovered (at least here in Midwestern America).
So I will continue to be of service and feel great about it, because I, too- love what I do.
Thank you, Cates, for the discussion. It's been good.
You are one of those rare providers who truly "gets it" when it comes to married clients. We tend to overlook the toll your service can have on your personal life and that those like you actually have a personal and family side to your lives. As you know some providers have paid a price for not keeping this professional life totally segregated from the personal life. There are some, like you, who are so good at providing the illusion of "being in love" as part of your service that it can be so misconstrued by some who need that void in their life filled as well, and therein lies a risk that some in your profession are unprepared for.
Great discusion reminds me of my talks with Rebeca Rand quite a few years ago. She sure was a pioneer in the hobby. Wonder if she is allow to chime in on the NET.
So many relevant issues to deal with in one thread but as I read through your post, there appears to be a desire for the community's validation of your lifestyle choice. My opinion - phuck the community! we should have the freedom to do as we like if it harms no others. However, our society likes to legislate any private behavior if there is the possibility that it might create an environment that breeds true evil by those who might prey on the weaknesses of underprivileged or impoverished women, especially vulnerable underage girls, even if its the exception. There does need to be some protection against this so we have to be careful about what we wish for. Many other countries have found the happy middle ground, such as Canada and the UK, where an independent provider and the client can conduct business discreetly without fear. Nevada is all phucked up on this topic. Several of the European countries think they have it figured out yet they are still creating a haven for truly criminal trafficking.
On the topic of marriage, monogamy, etc. Its a truly personal choice and its nobody's phucking business to pass judgement on whether its good or bad to be seeking sexual satisfaction outside of a long-term relationship.
Ok, a sexless marriage, but everything else is there. A marriage is about a partnership, and should survive even without sex... so they say.
Yet, if caught with a provider, the wife would feel betrayed by something so serious to end the marriage. Why doesn't she find it important enough to provide the sex within the marriage if it is so important?... that brings resentment and accusations of selfishness...
Why would she be forced to do something she clearly does not want to do as strongly as the husband does? That brings feelings of guilt when she gives in (but clearly does not want to)...
If you look at the best of marriages, sex is only a small part. It may bring you together, but the long-term relationship is in caring, support, raising children together, and trust.
Why did God give me such a strong basic need for intimacy and sex that had me thinking about throwing the rest away?
Thank you to the Providers that have helped me fill a need which allowed me not to resent my marriage and gave it new life by relieving the resentment and guilt. Something that can end my marriage actually saved it... go figure...
Now how do I get rid of the last guilt trip... that I am violating the trust, but doing it for the sake of the marriage... does that make me selfish or considerate or both?
I could talk to her about it...but her social upbringing would not be able to overcome that...
So the balancing act continues ...
Thank you to Cates and Alantra and others for understanding and taking the risks that you take, and providing the most wonderful experiences that I never could have experienced otherwise.
And thank you to TER forums for a place to ramble on...
Only I don't have (much) guilt. My wife wouldn't provide, would not give me sanction for a mistress, so off I go to the courtesans. I figure it's only fair.
I think divorcing someone you spent years building an otherwise good relationship with over sex is just plain dumb. Sadly, our species has not yet evolved to the point where we realize you can love more than one person at a time, that people aren't each other's sole, exclusive property, and that sex and love are not the same thing at all.
I pray for the day when group marriage is common and socially and legally acceptable. When we can get past the horrid ideal of monogamy, of owning or being owned. I won't hold my breath tho.
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