s time in NY more valuable than in MN?   Just because the cost of living is higher; traffic is more congested; life is more stressful; eating out almost exclusively what NY families do; incomes are on average higher as are expectations; even though this is so, is their time worth more than ours?  Or do we take time for granted more than they do?

The reason I ask this is because of the marked difference of TER whitelist culture in NY and the east coast.  Their mentality is to have as many whitelists as possible.  So when someone from NY or even GA (Atlanta) emails me to see me... in less than a NY minute I can say yes!!!  Why?  They have 30+, hell, even 70+ whitelists on TER and then more OK's elsewhere.  So, I can say yes in less time than a minute!  (sure, I go back afterwards, pick off from one or two recent whitelists and just get a heads up if I feel it is necessary).  

I've heard from other providers that the TER culture on the east coast is whitelist-centric; almost fanatically or religiously; whatever that means?  

What I notice is that is sure saves time!!!   And I also notice that every time a client has OK's or numerous Whitelists I feel my energy freed up to "get more excited" about meeting them!  It takes time and energy to say.... well, yes, I'd like to see you but I have to send out "x" number of emails, wait, wait, wait, hope or just plain not get responses and therefore not even  
get to meet at all.

I have had many gents come through my door and they've given reviews and did not even  
know what a "whitelist" is!  So I show them and they're very happy I give them their first one.  Others have two or three already which is great.  On rare occasion I see a MN gent with 10+ or 20+ whitelists.  Some gent's say they feel they shouldn't ask for one since it seems to them the providers don't really want to give any since they've seen so many providers and have no whitelists.  I say to them to perhaps start asking if they see the provider has reviews as the provider certainly visits TER and if she has your username during your session or after the session or if she gets an email with your username she is more apt to take the extra 30 seconds and give you a whitelist!  

In the end, the extra minute it takes to get a whitelist will end up saving hours of time for meeting the providers who need whitelists or OK's to see you.

Also, there are providers out there who do not screen much... and this is something that leaves them more vulnerable than not and therefore can leave you more vulnerable than not.   Sure in NY rapes, murders, thefts, arrests are more common than in lovely MN... but all the east coast has a culture of watching out and protecting themselves better.  Reviews are fantastic but not so much "protective".  

Ladies and Gents, I ask.....   why is it we do not whitelist more?  Is it MN nice to just not want to ask for too much?  Are we taking our valuable time for granted?  Is time worth less here than there?  

I realize it takes two to Tango.  Tango is such a sexy dance.  I would have to say that the sexiness begins on the first email in my inbox.  I do not wish to provide free email sex, phone sex or back and forth email sex entertainment... if I did I'd never have the time to see anyone!  And I'd be impoverished.  But, a sexy Tango does begin with approach, the tone, the attitudes conveyed... and impressions begin with that very first contact.  Safety is one of the sexiest ways to start the conversation!  I feel this way.  Numerous whitelists and OK's are like a green light and wow, my pussy and imagination begin working... and I "want" all the more the sooner I see things are safe.  

We have the tools right at our fingertips.... so what has stopped us thus far from using it?  It is not TER's fault we don't so much.... NY and eastcoast prove that out!  

Nudge nudge... calling all hard cocks... you're so good at nudging.  Nudge the whitelist, I think we'll wet willingly receive the nudge and request and be all the healthier, sexier, safer for it.

Beckoning all wet pussies, you're so good at inviting.  Invite them and offer the opening to the whitelist.  

A Tango on TER

Let's Tango here.  Let's have an Orgy of safety, sexiness, vim, godspeed to our sexy.   Gawd, I want to cum.  Please Tango with me, please approach me with all your safety so I can cum harder faster stronger with you.    

Who want's to Tango?   I think the MN Minute is more valuable than the NY Minute!  Why?  Precisely because we aren't so rushed.  We can slow down, breathe deeper.  I hear in NY the men book their time and leave before the allotted time because they have to be somewhere else already most of the time.  We have something they don't.  Let's not shirk it off with cumbersome time consuming introductions and have the Tango start in our first connection so we can dive right in

You raise some very good points. If I can make screening easier for my lady, why would I not. The whitelist is a painless tool that can be used to everyones benefit, as good screening helps all of us play safer. my primary method of verification has been to pay P411 but I can see how the use of a free service from a site we all use anyway could be a big asset too. And if that helps me do a sexy Tango with you, I'm all for it!

I'm still waiting for a couple of Whitelists from ladies I saw in June.  They were formerly TER members, but are not right now.  They will rejoin at some point and then provide the Whitelists.  But, I have their OKs on P411 so I'm not worried about it.

I think I  just tango'd in my pants.

I see you have 3 sexy whitelists!   Love seeing that!  Trinity is one of my favorite sexy women out there and so glad she sometimes takes the time...  but if someone asks her she gives it!  

 
I am making it a new habit to whitelist every opportunity I have.  Being new as it is, but now over 100 days into the hobby I am piping in and certainly whitelisting every good client!  Why not?  Safe is a big part of sexy!

I agree with you 100% on using whitelist more, I was extremely lucky to start with the ladies I saw in the beginning as they smoothed the way for me seeing others by using the whitelist and offering advice. Its a great way to stay private yet acquire references. I would also like to push the increased use of the local ad board as I have never been disappointed and see almost no "bait and switch" ADS.
 On a personal note I am intrigued by your use of the word vim without the requisite "vigor" following. One day I will meet you!

Those are very good points you make about screening ease for clients who are Whitelisted. Just yesterday, I met with a woman who wasn't a P411 or DateCheck member but she was able to use my Whitelistings to her satisfaction. I have no idea if she even called any of those providers, but it worked for her.  
I'm one of those who tends not to ask a lady for a Whitelisting as I know there are some providers who might have personal requirements needed to be met before they'll give one like only after repeat visits, etc. Some ladies will automatically give one to every guy they meet with. I like the unasked for Whitelisting. I have no problem, however, asking a lady for a P411 OK after I've seen her. These really work to my advantage as I often get a lady to say YES to my appointment requests quickly, and with no additional information required from me.

Hobbyists can select whether or not to have their Whitelist displayed from the Account Manager settings. Maybe there are Hobbyists who are Whitelisted and might not even be aware of it if it is set not to display.

Providers can think of Whitelisting a Hobbyist as another way to get their name out in front of more people. Free advertising, as such. A Whitelisting of a hobbyist can display the Provider's name regardless if a Hobbyist wrote a review of her. For those Hobbyists who post on multiple boards around the country, a Provider can get her name out for potential clients planning on visiting her city or state in the future.

...from a well reviewed provider! Talk about Easy Breezy!  

I look at it as a confirmation to the gent that I also really had a lovely time with him. I think it reassures him that I am genuine and don't fake my friendliness or pleasure with him. There is quite alot of competition in NYC, and he really could pick anyone to see. I am always grateful when someone is attracted to me and likes how I am and we enjoyed each other. I think whitelisting is also like saying Thankyou for being a good guy when there are so many bad ones out there. We should reward the good guys by vouching for their good character. I really dont think time restraints has anything to do with the whitelisting. Girls screen even if there are whitelists. And if I travel to any other state, I also give a whitelist to anyone who I see and enjoyed myself with. I have whitelilsted a few MN gents also.

Elan, please keep this issue out front.  I have asked a few special ladies to white list me.  No one ever declined but the majority of ladies answer that they are not VIP or what ever you need to be to offer a white list referral.  that does not make sense.  The white list is not so much for the men, it is to help protect the women.  It is at least as important as reviews for us.  I don't know if TER would allow ladies to give a rating, even a simple 1 to 5 so that the ladies have some idea what to expect.  Absent a rating of some kind white list is the best the ladies can do to help each other.  

Ask all the ladies to help each other.  The white list should be a minimum for admission.  

I know "easy for me to say" having been white listed by non other than The Elanmontage herself.  Ladies help each other find the safe and decent guys the way the reviews help us find you

This is what we want more of, thank you Drumsticks!!

Peace,

Astrid

Anyone can be on their very best behavior once!   So,  just like 10/10 review scores for ladies, white lists  
should only be given to the best of the best gents and not every one that I see.  

Of course, this is just my opinion.   I take white lists with a grain of salt as they are given out too freely, IMHO.    And I don't really take white lists/reviews as the only screening method either

How many visits is "many"?  Why limit whitelisting to "the best of the best"?

It is of course entirely up to you as to whom you choose to whitelist. But I agree with Élan that there's less whitelisting here than there could be.  I wouldn't expect a provider to whitelist me after only one date. But after 2 or 3, I think a lady should have a good sense for what kind of man and client I am, enough to know if I am worthy of a whitelist.  

And I really do appreciate the ladies who whitelist deserving clients without their needing to ask... a very considerate and unselfish thing for them to do, to make the extra effort to help the client, and fellow providers.

Fantastic post, élan. You promote WL referrals like our beloved Portia promotes the FC2 gotta love it...

I'm curious about our (lack of) WL culture as well. I can honestly say only a small handful of clients request this. I certainly don't mind submitting a referral for you if we've visited recently.  As a reference-friendly provider, I'm happy to answer requests from other ladies; in fact theses requests have my immediate attention.

The presence of numerous WL referrals does carry weight with me- please request them, gentlemen! And, if you're a regular visitor, please ask me to update your referral as one gentleman recently did. Clearly, he understands their value.  

I love Elans sentiment about saving time! Time is something we could ALL use more of.  

Peace,

Astri

Absolutely after 2 or 3 visits there is obviously a good "rapport" established. This number of visits for a WL referral is worthy IMO.  

Peace,

Astri

I think whitelist should be given to the best of the best.  Same reason as 10/10 reviews should only be
given to the best of the best.      IMO, it should be limited because, as my previous post says.....anyone can be on their best behavior one time.   It would take a greater effort to be on point every time you visit someone unless it is truly in their nature to be so inclined.     It's one of only a few ways for ladies to evaluate a guy as it is getting harder and harder to screen via other methods.    Therefore, white list should be reserved  for the truly wonderful gentlemen.   When given out to freely,  white lists become meaningless.  Just as 10/10 reviews become meaningless when overused.  We see it all the time here where guys complain that great reviews are given to freely to undeserving ladies.  Why should a white list be thought of any differently?   I think there is a fine line, perhaps.   We do not have the pleasure of provider posted client reviews to help us make a decision but we do have white lists.  If they are given out like candy at Halloween, they lose there value.    That's all I am saying.  I am not saying that deserved gentlemen should not receive them.  Absolutely they should!!
I am certain you would fall into that deserving group, Knotsaway, as would many many of our MN gents!!

-- Modified on 7/29/2013 5:39:34 PM

END OF MESSAGE

That was a great post, my bad for not asking. The two lovely ladies that have white listed me thank you. Duh  I didn't even know where to look to see that I've had any white lists. Now did I check the box properly so others can see the referrals?  

Another note I've never used the word Vim without Vigor although both words work very nicely alone.  Elan I look forward to you teaching me a few more things as well, I will work at getting my white list count up.
Steel

I think it depends what a whitelist actually means.  

I don't see a lot of value in the use of whitelist as a "best of the best" designation, as few providers seem to choose their clients that way. Rather, providers seem to choose clients substantially based on their ability to get referrals, and I hear from a lot of providers that verifying and responding to referrals is a pain (albeit a necessary one). It seems to me the primary value of a whitelist is the equivalent of an up-front referral. If you would be willing to say yes on a referral query, whitelisting does that in advance and saves some of the screening effort. Why have different standards?

Now, if you won't issue a referral until after 2-3 dates, then I think your standard makes sense, but most providers seem willing to do so after one. When I asked about the etiquette here on the general board, I was told that one date was enough to know whether the guy was a cop or a serial killer, and anything else was extra.  

I do agree with Elan that whitelisting should be used more. Seems a waste of a useful tool to just leave it idle.

unlike every other recommendation form out there, it is impossible to either qualify the "degree" of recommendation, or else openly "not recommend."

With P411, Date-Check, or RS2K, you  an report the gentleman if bad behavior occurs, which does mean their membership may be revoked if there are real issues in order to protect other companions. With references and some of the aforementioned screening services, you can communicate how much you would recommend the gentleman in question. TER has none of these options available, even though patrons are able to qualify their reviews of companions both quantitatively and qualitatively.  

So, if we wanted to give an example at the far end of the scale, a TER member could have 20 whitelists, and have raped and beaten 50 other girls-who would have no recourse, mind you, on the TER system. If this patron was intelligent and changed his contact information frequently and refused to provide any screening information beyond TER whitelists and references, he could feasibly get away with this behavior for quite a while.

THIS is why smart ladies, such as Belinda, only whitelist gentlemen who are the best of the best, and who they have seen multiple times. Furthermore, the fact that most ladies do not hold to this strict policy is why many ladies, including myself, simply don't consider whitelists a useful screening mechanism.

i Eve and Belinda,

I get it... best behavior one day is no way proof enough.  That he is not LE ... now that proof is there.  And yes, to still ask for references and still follow up on those... but the same applies with a reference or two... again, "best behavior"... and sure, if someone is creepy... don't whitelist!  and in a reference we can mention: creepy, dirty, .. etc.  

I will have to check the other sites out.  I would love to know about recourse should someone be invasive and bruttish or God forbid, raping.  I realize this is always a risk, but lowered by the fact if I see 30 whitelists on one account... he's less likely to keep making new accounts and it is SAFER than two references alone! And if 30 ladies find him Whitelist or OK worthy... well, there is proof enough he's not just a one time well behaved stunt.  This is why one whitelist is not enough as a rule.  With one whitelist vs. 10+... it is best to follow up and get details from the provider if possible.  But with two references... hell, he could behave well twice.  Whitelist additions are of huge value

... doesn't seem apples to apples to me. In TER vernacular, a 10 means "once in a lifetime". I really hope that a guy doesn't need to be a once in a lifetime client to deserve a whitelist.  That's a high bar to cross. I don't know that any provider would consider me a "once in a lifetime" kind of guy, but I know that no provider has to worry one bit about scheduling a date with me.

It appears that, like many other things in TER Land, whitelisting is a very subjective thing!

eel, you've reached 2+ status which is significant.  Not only that, but on of your two is Melissa!  and her Whitelists will carry more weight with some than others!   When you have a well reviewed provider whitelist you, you're better off than by having whitelists by providers that have very few reviews.  Melissa is well known and has a great reputation of knowing who is a gent and who isn't.  So, as you add to 3+ and beyond... you're reputation grows, too.  

It is fun using the word vim, isn't it!?  

My tongue feels vim as it finds a nice ridge to glide upon and swiftly wants more!

Being a New Yorker who is stingy with whitelists I'll have to agree with Belinda and Eve. In fact, I won't give them out unless requested, and even then by someone I've seen multiple times. I don't care if you have zero or 30, you're going through the same screening. Too many people hand them out too easily. I don't care any longer to check the lady. If I see she's given out many, I'm less likely to count it as valid. Sort of how reviewers who have only written one review are not generally viewed upon as favorably as a well known TER personality. Heaven's forbid a guy ever wonders why I'd need more info than just his TER handle... Whitelists, and date-check too, are no-no's for screening in my book. They can be an added part of the process, but never the core of it.

Kiss me,

Kate

P.S.  Élan, I don't say what I've written here to spite your practices and/or opinions on this matter. Every woman in this world has a right to screen in a way that makes her feel comfortable. Safety is what matters at the end of the day.

Thank you Élan for giving me my first whitelist.  I do have a few reviews that I have submitted that have helped but only after the provider has asked about the whitelist first.  I recently acquired a P411 account that has greatly helped me meet new providers as well.  I will start to ask going forward, Thank you.

Right before I retired,  I finally figured out just what the whitelist was and felt it was my duty to go through my reviews and pick out the exceptional experiences and show them my appreciation for being a gentlemen, complying with my screening standards right away with no fuss and most of all for making me feel safe.  You are so right once you have learned about the whitelist and gent informs you he is on it, looking at it especially with multiple referrals really is so freeing to me, that does not mean that I do not ask for other information and a few recent references at times, but it also really helps me be me, not so much second guessing. Say they even have like 10 whitelist referrals, that tells me that 10 different ladies, that are all unique in their reception and judgement of what makes a good client and deserving to be whitelisted, that are different then I, have chosen to ok them, what could be better then that as a aide to decision making?  Now , I try to keep up on it and list those I feel truly deserving of it and solid enough to let others know- they are going to enjoy this man and the time spent with them and a really pretty sure they are safe and so fun to spend time with.  

I must admit though a little part of me see's that gentleman that are whitelisted frequently are usually the ones that are good at giving honest , yet grateful reviews if they truly enjoyed their time and are kind and protective, not giving location information, etc. We providers have to earn that too and the ones that earn it, deserve it as well as it helps us out to help our business.  Just an observation and I do whitelist with-out getting a review , some hobbyists simply don't, but if they fit all of the criteria above and are truly the bomb as a client, I kinda get a thrill to get my back scratched too and still get turned on when I read the experience we had together and that I was doing something right, don't take this apart or make it a tit for tat, just sayin.....

I love this dance and you got my juices flowing Elan, here's a vid that mesmerizes me a well as the movie itself and many others I just watch and dream....

PS,  As a provider you do not have to be VIP to whitelist as far as I know, but then again, I have given a whitelist referral when I get reviewed by someone that is worthy in my opinion and it gives an option to do so, still, I think you can whitelist someone without getting a review from them, will have to check as I have a few that I need to get down

Thanks so much for bringing this topic to the forefront dear, I think I am starting to get wet love for you!  

J. xxxoo

Some days, I LOVE TER.     Other days, not so much!  

I adore you, Elan!   Hobby on!!

...sometimes I feel I'm more like Uncle Fester.  

-- Modified on 7/30/2013 2:43:47 AM

I give them if they ask. No sense in not helping someone out when needed.
Seeing someone that's on the whitelist puts me at ease a little more.
V.

There are clearly two divergent views on White Listing:  some think it should be aimed at showing someone is not LE or creepy, and others think it should be only for a relatively select few people who are well known to the provider.  I think those who want to be more than a basic approval are asking too much. Even someone who has been nice two or three (or many) times with one person can be a problem for someone else. YMMV applies to both hobbyists and providers.  Providers who want more info will do additional screening and contact references anyway.   As someone who is only an occasional hobbyist, the WL is a great service to me, and I think the women I see, because a provider I see only a couple of times over a couple of months is not likely to remember me when I need a reference a month or two (or more) later.  It is unrealistic to expect that the WL will show anything more than that at one point in time a particular person was not an imminent threat.  Just like more reviews improves the odds that a provider will be worthwhile, more WL approvals will improve the odds that a hobbyist is like to be safe and respectful. So until TER enhances the WL system, it seems to make the most sense to do what Elan recommends and give approvals based on basic safety and let more picky providers do additional verification.

Drumsticks, ah I bet there are days you feel like Gomez too!! and sometimes, rarely, I feel like Wednesday, oh wait, that is tomorrow.  There was a 1 time release of The Adams Family last year and a special on...not sure , but possibly NBC...you should check it out who-ever played Uncle Fester was very  morbidly witty and hilarious as well as evil dapper, I found myself attracted LOL

rfect example of YMMV!   And whether I am with a Fester or Gomez on date one or date two:  when I know someone isn't LE and they certainly do not feel dangerous and are a gentleman to me they, in my book, as a service to the client and to the other providers, get a whitelist.

As I understand it, as a community our MAIN concern is LE!  then follows the rest!  

If I saved the WL for the exceptional... I just feel that is way too much thinking on my part.

Providers may wish to know more beyond is he LE and respectful and I will answer quickly, if able,..... to answer more as in is he cute? smelly? clean?, picky?, too demanding? an overstayer? an over emailer?, a serial low ratings giver, a frequent canceller (well, many of these would disqualify a man... as it begs the question of respectful)...  but sometimes it is too soon to tell so therefore providers can by all means ask!  If a man becomes disrespectful we can always un-whitelist him! And trust me, if he's a frequent canceller or other disrespectful aspects and doesn't change... I will not whitelist or I will un-whitelist.  

Banish time wasting!  and Let's Tango, or if we're feeling like Fester today... stick pretzels up our nostrils... it's still kinda cute, ya know.  At least on some days.

ate,  NY $ vs MN $... no contest!  When each date is $1500 I might afford the advanced level screening costs and not blink an eye.  In this way, NY is a different animal.  

But the MN Whitelist culture is for me, as concerned as I see us in MN about LE and safety; finding the whitelist as a great first layer for ruling out the very basic issues of LE and not being a creep.  

So far, with my brief history... every man coming in my door has been a gent to me.  

I don't want men to jump through hoops to please me so I whitelist them. MN men might be more gentlemanly than elsewhere?  I don't think this, necessarily... but simple sexy clean hello let's get sexy and respectful is enough for me.  Once that is determined... that is enough in my book.  I do have faith in the ladies here who whitelist and are well reviewed.  

One P411 OK and whitelist there was a gent who was actually very scary at first to me.  He wouldn't smile... wouldn't crack a smile for most of our session!  The entire session.  Super intense.  I thought he was LE!!!   But he was OK'd on P411 by 3 ladies, one of which is in MN top 3; and whitelisted.  Well, that is all I had to go on!  Really, in the end, I like the guy.  He finally cracked a smile, told a joke.  I think he was very suspicious of me!: very suspicious of ass play...  that is my guess.  At the end, he was surprised in a good way.  He has an intense job, intense life, he's way more intense than LE.  I can never convey this in an OK or Whitelist... but you know what?  I don't want to.  Maybe YMMV ... maybe he'll be a bundle of giggles with someone else.  Hell, I'd see him again.  I am just such a curious type ... what makes this man tick?  He did smile after he came hard... I think he though he wouldn't.  He told jokes and really opened up at the end... but was an immutable almost death glare till he came.  Somehow... I love this.  No harm no fowl in Whitelisting him... he's a gent of the intense quiet sort.  I felt safe.  I have spidey senses of not being safe and shit... I hope those bells never go off!  And I did weigh the very well reviewed providers OK and whitelist as golden.  Some men come in the door... and have intense experiences emotionally, too.  A few men leave both happy and angry.  One left very angry about his life and his sexless marriage.  He wants great sex at home and it burns him he doesn't have it.  Damnit,...   In the end... yes, I wish to whitelist all that are not LE and treat me with respect and just are who they are... they don't have to wear extra veneer or jump through hoops or pretend anything.  Or if they want to pretend... then that's cool too.  To me, whitelist is nothing but "safe".... that he is safe is all that matters to me... the rest is chemistry.  

 
Wow, that was some meandering.  I'm leaving it as is, warts and all

s, I agree Astrid.  That is so nice to see P411 OK's with a sprinkling of a few we're familiar with... and to vwalla, 6 mins... boom!  chicka wow wow.

u hit the nail on every sentiment I feel.

now the man/client does not need to be VIP to get a whitelist!   I am not sure about the Provider.  She probably needs to be?  Anyone know off hand?  Or I shall go ask admin.

if I could I would put a +++ on your's!    

And sadly I see one of your whitelists evaporated right in front of my eyes from a highly reviewed provider that is no longer anywhere in TERland.

Molson, it follows that if you have a few P411 OK's and you're a very nice kisser and great energy, that I might as well OK you for P411 and whitelist you!  Even after the first visit.  Gentlemen that are new to the community who are truly gentlemen need all the support and big welcome that they can get!  I feel that I'd love to see you again, I'd update the OK or Whitelist... and feel that if more providers did this for more clients we'd simply be safer and happier, having less cumbersome travels on the sexy trail.  Welcome to a helluva sexy side of the twin cities underground community.  Thanks for being a gent and being sexy, transparent and safe is a huge turn on and asset!

Like Élan, I lament that the MN TER community fails to take advantage of whitelisting to make it easier to connect bona fide hobbyists with bona fide providers.  For my money, whitelisting could/should be to the TER community what OKs are for P411 members.  Since it became clear to me early on that many providers were at best unimpressed by whitelistings (and at worst, hostile to them) while taking the opposite view of P411 OKs, I slowly ceased to have much interest in asking providers to whitelist me.  
 
There are, and will always be, questions about the criteria that different ladies use to OK or whitelist.  But given the debacle with P411 in Colorado recently, I think we can all agree that, at bare minimum, an OK or whitelist should be given only to hobbyists who actually did something with the provider that LE are not allowed to do.

Still, it might be good to get a bit beyond this minimum.  For myself, I always assumed that an OK or a whitelist meant that the provider would be willing to repeat with the hobbyist who was OKed or whitelisted.  And since providers have told me that clients can and do get told “NO” when seeking return visits, this might be a good standard for providers to use.  Of course, we still end up with the problem of different providers having different views about who is or is not “repeat worthy” but the problem of different tastes is not to be avoided under any system.

In fact, this is where trust in others comes in.  Can I trust provider X’s whitelist and if so, how much?  Obviously, we are getting down to specifics that have to be decided by each provider for each case.  The fact that different people advocate different levels of trust regarding the views/assessments of others, is hardly surprising

Hiya,

LOL- if those are your literary warts then I'd better start editing my posts more! Totally get where you're coming from.

I think the big issue here, and this ties into Beddy1's post as well, is that whitelists are viewed as different things by different people. There might be trends in how they're viewed in various parts of the country, but in all honesty, that's not that great for us. Women tour. Men travel on business. The the boundaries between said regions are constantly getting blurred. So MN might have it's own WL culture while other places do it differently. That's fine. It's just up to us as individuals to decide what we're comfortable with for ourselves, and for others.

At the bare minimum, you're right- a whitelist should at the very least denote whether a gentleman is "safe" to see or not. There is more about "safe" though than simply LE. There is attitude and demeanor and that definitely does vary with the chemistry between two people. So is giving everyone a whitelist who you've seen just once but know that they're "safe" good? That's up to you. Who'll be looking at those later?  

At the end of the day, particularly because there is no standard on the subject, YOU have to do what YOU feel comfortable with. It's YOUR safety in tow. It doesn't matter whether a a guy has a few or a lot of whitelists, and it doesn't matter if they were given by women who hand them out or are stingy with them.  

You wrote that the whitelists can be a great first layer. And that's EXACTLY right. The whitelists, as with Date-Check and as with P411 and as with all other services should just be one tool in the shed. It might be the best suited tool for the job, in one's opinion, but it's simply one tool. If you're happy, and above all comfortable, with the choices you make then I applaud you! Not many are. And so I leave you with that wish- continue to keep yourself safe, with whatever that may or may not entail.  

Kiss me,

Kate

Unfortunately, It's the ladies that control that.. and few seem willing to do so.  Even after a great review.  

What's worse, many providers delist themselves every so often, and then their whitelists go with them.  So when you get some, a lot of times they disappear on you after a while.

It's frustrating really, particularly for those of us that do not hobby often.

fter pondering everything I've read here I feel conflicted.  I'll sleep on this.  Thank you everyone for your responses.  

On one hand I love P411... it is about Non-LE and by and large no creeps when we see several OK's and still it is not a perfect system and I've heard the rare disaster story still there too, so I see the wisdom of following up anyway!  I see how P411 provides a double screening in the event of accepting the client in the first place and then the OK's on top of that. No reviews... just plain safety check and preferences and offerings listed.

TER is more about reviews, discussions, dialogue.... and maybe the WHITELISTS are not so much here to be about safety as much as a gift for revered clients as Belinda and jackie and Kate suggest.  

So, I go to bed torn on this issue.  I will come back tomorrow perhaps the morning being wiser than the night.  

Weighing... is it a free safety mechanism in service to both sides?  Or is TER not to be used as a tool as a safety mechanism and just a fun place to hang out and crossroads for dialogue

If I were a provider and needed a reliable "LE indicator", I cannot imagine that all providers would not use it as a courtesy. Maybe WL isn't it, but Élan has a great point. Regardless of the content, a WL does satisfy the non-LE concern. If you want to award gold stars some other way, great! I think it would be wise for the greater hobby to have all professional providers to at least provide a "he won't arrest you" indicator for everyone they see. The psychology of not having to worry about your next appointment, I think, should allow you to be more focused on a 10 for all involved.  

I could not do what you guys do. You TOFTT all the time.

Excellent point... I too think "safe" means more than not LE. It could mean something as basic as, the guy was respectful of boundaries and in general, and there's no concern over seeing him again. It could also mean more than that, e.g. would you feel comfortable falling asleep with him there, as in an overnight date?  I have a feeling that kind of thing, which is a pretty high standard, is what some ladies consider when whitelisting someone.