A couple of recent threads discussing relationships and feelings between providers and hobbiests and a few PMs on the topic got me to wondering.  I have heard from some guys that most providers are married.  Now, this has not been my experience.  Most of the woman I have seen over the years, while they may have been married at some point in their lives, were not married while they were providing.  I have only seen 1 provider who is married and she is DIY for that reason (I have reviewed her here).  But, that is the only one out of many ladies I have seen in the last 40 years.  On the other hand I know that many hobbiests are married (I am currently not) and so I wonder if some of the guys thinking providers are mostly married is coming from the fact that they themselves are married.  Btw, I am NOT judging anybody one way or the other on this topic, but I am curious.   I would have said before I got these PMs that most providers were not married while providing, but apparantly many believe the opposite.  So what do you think?  I am not asking any provider to share her marital status (unless she wants to), I am just curious as to whether you think many are married while providing or not.  Stay cool on this blistering hot day.  

-- Modified on 7/3/2012 12:08:44 PM

IMO, providers have different believes when it comes to sexuality than your average female.  I, personally, believe that men and women are not genetically inclined to be monogamous creatures.    We are programmed to be sexual beings.    Of course, society wants to point us to the benefits of monogamy, and while I agree, there are inherent benefits to being monogamous,  I also believe there are benefits to having multiple partners.    

While I cannot speak for all providers, I do know a great number who are either married or in committed life partnerships/relationships, as I am.     Many ladies become providers because they have a high sex drive, enjoy men, and feel a need to express their sexual self with and amongst a set of like-minded individuals.  

I don't know that it should matter, but I am curious because your experiences differ from mine and I am always open to learn more about human behavior, particularly as it relates to the hobby. I agree with you completely about us being sexual beings and monogamy being a construct of a moral code that is meant to shame us for our natural sensuality.  Thanks for your response.

-- Modified on 7/3/2012 1:15:55 PM

I am a single girl.  I have been active off and on since 2007.  I have been involved in an on-again, off-again relationship with the same man since that time. We have been apart steady now for 15 months.  This month of July marks my 12 months of being back in action.  

As you can see by the large gaps in my reviews as to when we were together or apart.  I never played as "Melissa" when I was involved in a "relationship".  

I am a one man woman for however long that relationship is destined to last, if only for just that one single hour.  I love to love, and I love to be loved. I love to touch and to be touched.  For me, this is the real deal, no playing, no faking, no pretending. I am who I am. When the hour is up, the relationship has ended, until we are together again.

Over the years, I have met a small handful of gentlemen, that starts my heart pounding and puts me in a dream world of hearts circling my head.  I think of waking to him every morning.  I would never, could never and have never told them how I feel.  

When I find the man I will lay my head down with every night, he will never know of the existence  "Melissa".  Melissa, will quietly one day disappear taking my chair and my love to bestow to one man only.

I will secretly reminisce with gratitude about of some of the kindest, most loving and sexually charged men, that I was blessed to have crossed paths with.   I will be 100% devoted to pleasing this one man whom ever he may be.

-- Modified on 7/3/2012 7:52:37 AM

I love this thread.  I completely agree.  I am a Provider, and while I am not married I believe we are all sexual beings. It is natural, we were born this way.  I for one have a high sex drive, always have, and I find Escorting is a wonderful way to express myself.  Even if I were married I would want to be with someone that felt the same way I do, monogamy is not important, what is important is the respect and love one has for the other.  Society wants us to believe monogamy is the only way we should be, and then religion comes in.  But we won't go there.  Just because we are sexually attracted to another person and have intimate relations with them does not mean we love our partner any less.  A lot of the time it makes our personal relationship even more erotic, we experiment and try new things and can bring us closer.  I am also a bi woman, I like women very much, I thoroughly enjoy being with another woman.  I think variety is the spice of life.  If we treat others the way we would like to be treated and we are not hurting anyone, isn't having fun a part of life.

about your sincerity.  I am sure you have broken a few hearts as well and have had no shortage of potential suitors.  I am guessing that its both a curse and a blessing for you to be in this business.

-- Modified on 7/3/2012 8:22:49 AM

You and I have had many discussions on this subject and we both feel the same way.  Love you.  

I am moved by your candor and honesty. Very well stated. I'm so glad that we have had the pleasure of meeting with each other.

You're describing a street hustle. Sorry. But that's not the same as a legit provider. (IMHO)

WHen my ol' lady was in the game, she used to tell all of her clients she was single. Why? Because it kept their hopes alive for getting to a place with her that they never really had a chance at. And it worked, they lavished her with all kinds of extravagent shit hoping to entice her into something more...um...meaningful??? And the more they did, the higher she raised the bar. The hustler watched the dogs chase their tails. It's business dude, don't forget it, or you'll be the next sucka to get taken for a ride.

And the same would go for those in LT relationships in general.  In addition to all the typical problems that relationships can have, you add those involved in either keeping what you do from your SO or finding someone who accepts it and I think it would make it harder.  But still very possible and I have known escorts who were happily married or in LT relationships.

There's going to be a lot of very sad people when you meet that special one, as no one could replace you.  As always I applaud your your honesty....and really love the way you write.

I think multiple pages of stellar reviews make her as legit as anyone else around here - past or present - that being the all important standard for the "hobbyist".

The street has absolutely nothing to do with it, but a hustle, for sure. And there is no such thing as a "legit" provider anywhere that prostitution is illegal.

Her objective was not to fit the mold of what a "legit provider" should be, as defined by the men who either wanted to use or posses her, nor by the catty bitches who tried to compete. Her objective was to make copious amounts of money, which she did, and was better at it than most.

Providers love to use the terms "illusion" and "fantasy" when trying to explain away how they unfortunately made some hapless trick sick with puppy love, yet usually fail to make the distinction between "illusion" and "deception", which is a no-brainer given that it's practiced and  premeditated and by in large accepted as quid pro quo. Here's my money, now pretend you'd rather be here with me than anywhere else...right...An oasis in the desert is an illusion - saying "oh god baby you're so fucking good" when you're thinking, "is it in yet?" is deception.

All the same, as long as he walks away with a shit eating grin on his face, it's all ok...or so it's supposed to be. Some just know how to maximize their earniings better than others.

This intrigues me! I always assume that people are as in touch with reality as myself. Especially if they have a few years on me. I would think that these gentlemen that lavished her with gifts were well aware of the position that they took on. A closed mouth doesn't get fed. If every "provider" operated this way, every man would be a sucker!!

continuing working as a provider is not a man worth having.

At that time I argued with her. Not anymore.

Lina

-- Modified on 7/4/2012 3:26:07 AM

While I am certain that I could not tolerate a marriage/live-in relationship with a practicing provider, and certain that the women I have been in such relationships with would not tolerate me being a practicing hobbyist, I have met people who claim to be capable of tolerating such things.  Are such people worth having?  Yes, for each other!  

For me, SO relationships are fine until they are not.  The problem I have with SO relationships is that after a few months, the thrill of being in them ebbs a bit.  I find this to be a natural fact about many/most humans, namely, we find our eyes tend to roam and in a world that is now filled with so many gorgeous, intelligent, interesting, loving, lovable and available women, the idea of a life-long or nearly life-long commitment to another, seems quaint, if not downright silly.  Call me shallow and hedonistic if you like, but I cannot help finding it natural, healthy, realistic, and above all, life-affirming, to seek out the finer things in life.  I know of nothing finer in this world than pleasuring and being pleasured by as many of the finest women in the world as I am able.

My opinion is you need to figure out what works best for you while keeping in mind that's not necessarily what other people in your life want and figure out the best way to handle all that.  Of course, easier said than done.

Define "in touch with reality". Those were not neccessarily stupid men, they were very successful in many facets of their lives, and all of them had quite a few years on her.
However, when it comes to women, all bets are off.

As a woman, I'd think you would be hyper-aware of the power of your sexuality, and the ways in which it can be used to persuade men to see things however you want them to see them. Not that you would, neccessarily, but that you recognize how fucking fragile an otherwise strong, clever, and powerful man can be made to be through the use of seduction and other womanly charms.      

In her case I'd say this - some men are used to winning, and getting what they want. So if she allowed them to believe they were winning, than their egos would easily let them see their false perceptions as reality.

Naturally, you want to fuck other women, and often. We're hardwired that way. Fucking is an instinct that demands to be satified, while monogomy is a man-made concept.  

At the same time, most people want some kind of deeper human connection - to not be alone, to have someone who understands them, and has your back etc. etc. and this is what leads people to form long term relationships.

Conventional thinking is that long term relationships require sexual monogomy. IMO that is just social conformity, but not reality. In fact, if I had an abundance of time, I'd argue the many ways that the expectation of monogomy destroys relationships.

I have practiced emotional monogomy in all of my relationships, but never sexual monogomy, nor have I ever had any desire for a woman to be sexually monogomous - she would just bore the shit out of me. I see monogomy as a form of control, and no one likes to be controlled.  
I only have four rules in a relationship: 1. No secrets. 2. No lies. 3. NEVER disrepect me. 4. Lets have some fucking fun.

Being in a relationship with a practicing provider was not much different than any other relationship - because I see love and sex as two entirely seperate entities and know that one does not require the other.

For the record, I advised her against it - not because of any form of jealousy - fucking other people was already part of the program, but only out of concern for her safety and long term well being.

I think it is important to distinguish between sexual monogamy and emotional monogamy, as you have.   IMO, having sex with multiple partners is not "cheating".    Cheating is having an emotional attachment to someone outside of your love relationship.

Thank You for that great perspective! That makes really good sense to me!

I think we could take three more years discussing all of this and still have more to say, but I am curious about a couple of things.

First, I am not sure that I understand the notion of emotional monogamy.  I am curious to hear more from you about what it is, how one practices, or fails to practice it, and why you think it is important to be emotionally monogamous.  (After all, those in open relationships claim that sexual monogamy and emotional monogamy are rather silly ideas.)  At present, EM strikes me as something that it is quite easy for you to make a claim to, but something that others might have a difficult time assessing from your actions.  

I am also curious as to why you single out sexual monogamy as a form of control.  Having sexual monogamy as a rule of one’s LTR is no more controlling than your rules 1, 2 and 3.  I think it is better to see the rules of an LTR not as forms of control (after all, anyone who thinks s/he can or should control another, is certifiable) but as a warning (promise?) that violation of the rules warrants changes in the LTR.  

Finally, not sure if this is intentional but your 4 rules for a relationship don’t seem to me to be particular to a marriage/LTR – they seem to be quite general rules that one would expect good, right thinking people to live by.  That’s not a bad thing – but it is to say that your rules could just as well be the rules of a fraternal order as of a LTR/marriage.

The short version of EM is the idea that you cheat (or don't cheat) with your heart, not your body. Even "hobbyists" who truly love their wives but also have casual sex with hookers, are practicing EM in a sense, albeit the decpetion neccessary to do so might put in to question the existance of said love.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that people in open relationships think that "emotional monogamy is a silly idea". I've been an on and off lifestyle swinger for most of my adult life, and the vast majority of swingers I've known do pratice EM.

There are a small percentage who practice no form of monogamy at all, who identify as polyamorous, but more often than not, swinging couples have quite a few rules put in place to secure their emotional monogamy. Central to that, is to seperate completely the acts of lust with other people from any form of actual romantic intimacy. Many will not hook up seperately, or go on "dates" with others, or share intimate details about their lives etc...

Though they may deveolp casual freindships with their sex partners outside of the primary relationship, basically they fuck and leave it at that - no further attachments. Now, I can't put everyone in a box because the various rules open couples put in place to secure their feelings of being "number 1" to their SO are widely varied, and sometimes not at all equal between both partners. But the core premise is a pledge to love and share their romantic feelings with only each other, but enjoy the freedom to have casual sex with whom ever they please (unless of course their are rules about that too - some spouses demand the power of veto if their SO wants to hook up with someone they don't personally like). I've heard it all, and some of it makes no sense to me, but to each their own.  

EM is not supremely important to me, but I tend to gravitate that way by nature. I don't feel the need or desire for more than one deeply romantic relationship, the way I do for multiple sex partners. And women, generally, in my experience, are predisposed to that way of thinking as well, so that's how it works out. But polyamory would not be out of the question for me given the right circumstances.

To the second question - I think placing a laundry list of rules on your partner - what to do with their body being one of them - is pointless (because when you are not around they will do whatever is in them to do regardless), and shows a lack of confidence and trust. It's suffocating, and can sometimes border on emotional blackmail. As I see it, the primary purpose of such a rule is to help ensure that they retain sole posession of that person (for lack of a better term at the moment). I find posessiveness unattractive. And, it never acheives its intended purpose anyway.

Rather, I'd prefer to be with someone who is with me by desire and not any form of obligation imposed, pressured, or even suggested by me or the rules of polite society, and trusts that I am there for the same reason. I did not intend to single out sexual monogamy, I only mentioned it specifically because it was pertinent to the topic.

The other reson for imposing sexual monogamy, of course, is to follow the rules of our oppressive and delusional society of false morality, which suggest, or rather demand sex only exist where there is love, or those even more obtuse who think they are one in the same. But I digress.

Now, I can predict someone saying that by those standards, isn't EM a form of control as well? Certainly we can not tell others who to love, the heart wants what the heart wants as they say. But, if there is no emotional contract at all, then do you even have a relationship to begin with? I think not, so it becomes a moot point.

I don't see rules 1,2,or 3 as being controlling at all, but as you said, they are just what you expect from good right-thinking people. You are correct in your last statement. Rule 4 is more a philosophy of life than a rule, and the others, really are not rules at all, just deal breakers. What can I say, I'm not big on rules.
Trust and respect are my minimum standards, and no long term relationship can exist between me and any other non-business associated person without them.

Christine,
Nice post,  I wish you all the best on moving to the midwest and your travel plans.  Dt forget to post your schedule

All fine and dandy as long as that trust remains. And that is all part of the game because in this situation it all comes down to a point sooner or latter where u are not sure. Believe me I have seen it. And after destroying her relationship with her husband it wasn't hard to destroy her emotionally. So don't think someone who is a hustler is always going to win; sooner or latter they will run into somebody that is smarter and can afford to play the game to win.

LIP, thanks much for the thoughtful answers to my questions and sorry for the delayed reply.  

I am sure that I still don’t fully understand how one practices, or fails to practice, EM.  Given your explanation, I think my main worry is that being EM or not being EM isn’t terribly important.  One reason it doesn’t seem important is b/c it seems so difficult to confirm or detect, or for people to disagree about.

You speak of hobbyists who truly love their wives despite having casual sex with hookers, as practicing EM.  My question is, how is anyone to tell whether these hobbyists truly love their wives?  Unfortunately, to answer this question we have to know what love is – if we take it as a feeling internal/private to the lover, we have the problem that such feelings are much too easy to get wrong and much too easy to lie about.  

Are we to decide the matter my seeing how the husbands behave toward their wives?  Again, loving behaviors can be done absent the feeling of love.  Couples do it all the time -- it’s called, “honoring a commitment”.  So, I would say that as long as a husband (wife) honors his (her) commitments to his wife (husband), and good luck getting clear on what such commitments should consist of, we can say he (she) is being emotionally monogamous.  But then it seems to me that the heart/love stuff falls out of the picture as so much hot air.  

Bottom line for me is that I don’t think I have enough control over my heart to tell another that I will be EM, in your sense.  What I do control, of course, is my voluntary actions.  And I am quite capable of voluntarily committing myself to put one woman above all others in terms of my time, money and efforts.  But that doesn’t seem to me to be a heart/love thing – it’s a matter of conscious, voluntary decision-making and pretty much indistinguishable from being committed to someone.

And, of course, there is still the problem of saying what counts as putting one person first in one’s life – for many, if a husband spends time with hookers (and, as often happens, has many fond memories of such time running through his head), he is deemed to not be putting his wife first, despite his claims to the contrary.  
A husband can tell his wife all day long that he truly loves her and that his time with hookers means nothing more than casual sex – but she may regard this as a bunch of hot air b/c she sees his time with hookers as proof positive that his love is not as strong as it needs to be.  You say he is EM, he says he is EM and yet his wife says:  BS!  I'm with the wife on this one.

This whole thread on provider/hobbyist relationships is quite interesting to me as I am finding myself falling for a provider. I have dabbled in hobbying for a few years as an easy means to an end. I am a divorced man who works quite a bit and have chosen not to try to start a relationship outside of hobbying. I met a wonderful provider a while back and have seen her when possible. The sex has always been phenomenal but as time has gone on I have become more and more interested in her beyond our sexual encounters. She is quite wonderful and I have been quite tempted of late to cross the line and ask about a civie date, so to speak. I have no idea what kind of response I would get. I think she enjoys the sex as much as I do but crossing over that line is something very different. She has touched something in my heart that I am having a hard time ignoring. I know for some of you, you will likely think I am acting crazy and like a lovestruck teenager but that is not who I truly am. I would like to hear from some of the providers what they think about my potentially crossing that line. Do you think I would be making a mistake? How would you feel if one of your clients crossed that line? If they did and you weren't interested in that way, would you stop seeing them altogether? Thx to all for listening.

That will be one lucky man!!!!! You deserve nothing but the best luv!!!