Agreed ... Hopefully the provider in question sees this and comments ... She can make a new account. If the hobbyist is someone we should be warned about then let us know his name and number. In the end it was a good reminder to all of us to be careful and know the limits ... All limits.
The one thing I didn't see brought up and maybe I just missed it: did he think that in paying for her services that was consent ... If it happened as said?I agree with vorlon, she should have ended the session when he told her he was going to get her drunk. As has been stated before, ladies, and also the gentlemen here, ALWAYS be in control of your situation.
As far as bringing alcohol to a session with this provider, she's an adult, she can make the decision as to weather to drink it or not. Its her choice to make. If she can't make a good decision, then maybe she should seek help.
Now if what was told to the OP is true, the client did a horrible thing to her. I am in no way condoning what the hobbyist did to her. It was a despicable act on his part. I wish her the best and I hope she gets the help she needs to get through this.
Do we truly know that the hobbyist was out to get her drunk for the explicit reason of unprotected sex?
Does she even know what really happened?
Did he know she was blacked out?
If you posters are willing to exonerate the provider because she was drunk are you also willing to exonerate the hobbyist if he was?
There are to much hearsay here to rush to judgement.
I recently had a conversation with a Minnesota provider, who I won't identify, but is on TER. I can't identify the hobbyist, because I don't know who it is. It seems she had an appointment with a hobbyist who set out to "get her drunk". During the session, she blacked out and doesn't remember what happened, but believes (based upon the physical evidence) that the hobbyist did her bareback while she was blacked out.
Several things:
The hobbyist in question is a rapist. If the provider is unable to consent to a sexual act or not having protection during the act, she is being raped. P4P does not affect this outcome.
If the Provider should become pregnant as a result of the rapist's actions. He could find himself on the hook for child support for the next 18 years.
The rapist exposes her and any hobbyist she may see to any STD he may have.
I am making the community aware of this, but I will not comment further on the subject.
This is dumb...
Not only is the act of what happened stupid repugnant. Posting this online here just blanket a lot of providers on TER with a "Hey I got raped" & I might be pregnant and "carrying" unknown pathogens.
Thanks for letting the paranoia sink in...
He's a danger to providers AND hobbyists alike. I would like to know who this is and who it happened to as providers can and do offer each other support. If she chooses to reach out to other ladies, she should only tell a few whom she feels she can trust. I do not think it appropriate to discuss this type of thing with hobbyists though.
That is of course "if" she drank herself into a "black out." opposed to being drugged. First & foremost, he can't "get her drunk." She had to be the one to bend the elbow to consume the alcohol. Ahem... that would make it HER choice. Secondly, because she was in a "black out" doesn't mean she was raped or taken advantage of. It's a fact that often times while in a black out many people appear coherent & even sober for that matter. Under such circumstances there would be no reason to assume that her consent was amiss if she proceeded without protest. Now if she were "passed out" that would be a different story. Then again my question would be why would she allow her consumption to get that much out of control? Again, HER choice
No body deserves to be raped or sexually assaulted. This "blaming the victim" attitude has kept
many women from reporting such crimes (even outside the hobby) and have kept rapists on the street
to continue their abuse and victimization.
You are wrong, Leann. WRONG!
Wow...
Taking sexual advantage of a woman, without her consent, under any circumstances... is rape. Following your logic Leann, any woman who gets drunk is fair game... she's "asking for it" and any man is permitted to have sex with her? That is an utterly reprehensible argument. Shame on you.
FWIW, keeping this individual's anonymity is bad too. It's spreading paranoia amongst a community that already has too much paranoia. There are ways of identifying an individual anonymously. If this individual believes they've got away with it, it won't be too long until they do it again. Next time, it could end even more tragically.
My 2c's
Based on this definition and assuming it accurately describes the circumstances the OP listed, I would say that her behavior wasn't smart but his was reprehensible although probably not illegal. He had to have known what her state was and even if that wasn't his intent, to take advantage of it is completely immoral IMHO.
Leann isn't wrong at all. She just pointed out possibility that two consenting adults may have over indulged. Then they did what millions of couples have done and acted very irresponsibly. No crime.
Good point Leann.
Good point Leann.
How do you know she didn't consent? She was blacked out, not passed out, she may have consented to it, you don't know.
you know she didn't consent because she's so drunk she's blacking out. you know this because you're a human being with fucking empathy. people who are blackout drunk don't act like people who are still sober enough to consent.
(Let me be clear that this isn't a commentary on the "situation" being discussed here. None of us know what happened there. This is just in reply to Jonas' comment and similar ones made by a few others.)
Back in the day, a college buddy of mine could not remember large chunks of time while drinking. My friends and I all agreed that he didn't act/talk/walk any different than normal. In fact we had quite normal conversations. So, at the time he appeared quite normal to most people. But, in the morning he remembered *NONE* of it. We had to explain everything to him, he just had a few random snapshots buried in his brain somewhere. You know...the "where is my car and how did I get home" moment.
So, I'm just saying that it's ENTIRELY possible to be completely unaware that someone will have no recollection of the events at hand. And that's even if you're sober, let alone drinking with them. You don't KNOW they are blacking out because blacking out is amnesia, i.e. inability to recall the past. That's not to be confused with "passing out" which is an actual loss of consciousness
Where did you see that the gal CONSENTED? I do not often drink and when I do, I know my limits. However, I had a friend once bring the fixings to make a special drink for us to share. After having consumed only one of these drinks, I found myself surprisingly intoxicated. Thankfully, I was with a gentleman who did not take advantage of me. But, he could have. What ever the circumstances in this instance, this was not consensual and he was not a gentleman. Blows my mind how insensitive some people can be. Shame on you leann. Thanks Belinda for all you do!
And I stand firm behind my response. Society uses the term "victim" way too loosely these days. (IMO) Further more, what's to say the scenario as relayed is in fact a TRUE account of what really happened? NONE of use including the OP really knows & I for one am suspicious.
According to the OP the provider poured her heart out about the details of being "victimized" yet refrained from identifying who the perpetrator is. Huh?! Let's analyze this a bit.
If I were in her shoes I would be feeling devastated & enraged. What do you suppose my expectations &/or hopes would be as a result of confiding this info to the OP? If you answered vengeance &/or justice, you get an "A!" Now given that, why on earth would you protect the identity of the perp? Makes no sense to me at all. What does make sense is the probability that this was simply a case of morning after remorse. All of this however really doesn't matter because it is nothing more than speculation in response to a third party account of the incident. In other words, this entire thread (thus far) is completely useless to readers.
So how about we turn this into a conversation that can be helpful? What can be learned here?
a) When the use of alcohol is included in a session providers need to be in control at all times. Either provide the alcohol yourself or if the gent brings it be sure it is unopened.
b) You are the hostess. Server the alcohol yourself & NEVER take your eyes off it. If you do have to leave the room refrain from consuming any more for the duration of the date.
c) Know how to identify your limits. When you feel yourself approaching euphoria STOP DRINKING!
Now I also recognize sometimes the gent just wants to sit & party & yup, get sloshed together. Lol! I for one have WILLINGLY done so on occasion with a few gents. They are however gents I have been seeing regularly for on the upside of two years & know in my heart of hearts I could trust them with my life. That is the ONLY time I would EVER consider "partying" in the hobby.
Finally, (my fingers are getting tired) to refer to me as being heartless & not caring is absurd & those that know me will attest to that. I simply care in a different way. I don't believe sympathy is helpful to anybody. Quite the contrary. Effectively it leaves them powerless over their lives. I believe empowering people is the most meaningful & "caring" thing you can ever do for a person. That's not to say I won't lend a shoulder to cry on. That is to say that once you've cried it out I will be there to help you take an objective look at your situation & set reasonable goals to make changes in your life that will be helpful in preventing you from being in such a position again in the future. If that makes me cruel & uncaring in some people's eyes, SO BE IT!
Thanks for listening & safe wishes to everybody.
Leann
I think two words suffice:
fuck off.
I'm so glad I don't drink at all while working. God forbid something bad happen to me *shudders * at the thought of how many would say it's all my fault for trying to be accommodating.
from my standpoint as someone that's noticed a lot of individuals with self entitlement issues around here ( as in the "Im payng for it so I can do what I want" mentality.) I also know
There's plenty of hobbyists that have either harassed me or pushed my boundaries after I've said no to the point where I had to defend myself verbally & physically over the years because of that same mentality ( there's a very good reason I warn people about minding their manners. but would I out them here? Nope.
Because that's what blacklists and the PO board are for.
I'm thinking she probably has a better way to handle the situation.
As for telling someone she trusts that happens to be a hobbyist, it could be a bunch of crap but who knows .
These things aren't to be taken lightly regardless.
According to the OP the provider poured her heart out about the details of being "victimized" yet refrained from identifying who the perpetrator is. Huh?! Let's analyze this a bit.
If I were in her shoes I would be feeling devastated & enraged. What do you suppose my expectations &/or hopes would be as a result of confiding this info to the OP? If you answered vengeance &/or justice, you get an "A!" Now given that, why on earth would you protect the identity of the perp? Makes no sense to me at all. What does make sense is the probability that this was simply a case of morning after remorse. All of this however really doesn't matter because it is nothing more than speculation in response to a third party account of the incident. In other words, this entire thread (thus far) is completely useless to readers.
So how about we turn this into a conversation that can be helpful? What can be learned here?
a) When the use of alcohol is included in a session providers need to be in control at all times. Either provide the alcohol yourself or if the gent brings it be sure it is unopened.
b) You are the hostess. Server the alcohol yourself & NEVER take your eyes off it. If you do have to leave the room refrain from consuming any more for the duration of the date.
c) Know how to identify your limits. When you feel yourself approaching euphoria STOP DRINKING!
Now I also recognize sometimes the gent just wants to sit & party & yup, get sloshed together. Lol! I for one have WILLINGLY done so on occasion with a few gents. They are however gents I have been seeing regularly for on the upside of two years & know in my heart of hearts I could trust them with my life. That is the ONLY time I would EVER consider "partying" in the hobby.
Finally, (my fingers are getting tired) to refer to me as being heartless & not caring is absurd & those that know me will attest to that. I simply care in a different way. I don't believe sympathy is helpful to anybody. Quite the contrary. Effectively it leaves them powerless over their lives. I believe empowering people is the most meaningful & "caring" thing you can ever do for a person. That's not to say I won't lend a shoulder to cry on. That is to say that once you've cried it out I will be there to help you take an objective look at your situation & set reasonable goals to make changes in your life that will be helpful in preventing you from being in such a position again in the future. If that makes me cruel & uncaring in some people's eyes, SO BE IT!
Thanks for listening & safe wishes to everybody.
Leann
Why don't we ever tell men HOW NOT TO RAPE instead of telling women HOW NOT TO GET RAPED?
So how about we ACTUALLY turn this into a conversation that can be helpful, potential perpetrators this is for you:
a) When you are in the company of a woman who is drinking alcohol, or fucking orange juice for that matter, DON'T RAPE HER.
b) If a woman has left her alcoholic beverage with you and out of her sight, DON'T PUT DRUGS IN IT.
c) Know how to identify consent. Consent is an act verbally agreed upon while not under the influence of drugs or alcohol! If your partner/date/provider appears too intoxicated (and yes, you know what that looks like) and you don't have a pre established agreement on the terms of a sexual act, now is not the time. When you feel yourself approaching entitlement over a woman's body because you think you can get away with it, STOP YOURSELF!
Potential perpetrators, once you've cried it out I will be there to help you take an objective look at your situation and set reasonable goals to make changes in your life that wil be helpful in preventing you from raping in the future!
This internalized misogyny is devastating, sexual assault is NEVER the fault of the victim
Thanks for coming to the rescue! We can all relax now knowing that you have educated all the perps out there & they are now hanging THEIR heads in shame & will change their evil ways so we no longer have to have our guard up & assume any level of responsibility for taking precautions to keep ourselves safe. PHEW! You've no idea how much of a burden that has been!
I say we all celebrate by flying merrily by the seat of our pants & playing recklessly with strangers for the next week. Then we can report back next Friday & share how that worked for us! My guess is it will be one of the biggest pity parties ever posted in the history of TER. Anyone volunteering to bring the booze & the appetizers?
It's too bad the thought of shame and burden being taken off the victim and put onto the perpetrator is such a bizarre thought...
You know another way to fight rape culture and misogyny? Female camaraderie, stay safe hon.
-- Modified on 5/27/2013 7:28:58 PM
Does THIS get it through your skulls what we're talking about....?
How do you know she didn't consent? Were you there?
The OP didn't say that "two consenting adults may have over indulged" - it said that non-consensual intercourse took place. You're talking about a different situation. What the OP described is evil.
You and Leann should re-read it and then apologize for misunderstanding what has happened here.
Leann and I read a post about a story, a third and fourth person story, and then she pointed out a possible scenerio that maybe the story wasn't as awful as it appeared. I was defending logic and Leann. My bad.
you weren't defending logic. you were playing out the tired role of rape apologist. "
How do you know it was non-consensual? She blacked out, she may have consented.
Blacking out is not the same as passing out, you have to understand the difference.
+1!
I'm agreeing because under NO CIRCUMSTANCES is the inebriated person at fault.
He should know better! Drunk doesn't equal a yes. It never will.
Never mind how disgusted I am with the fact he couldn't even use protection.
Grrr.
many women from reporting such crimes (even outside the hobby) and have kept rapists on the street
to continue their abuse and victimization.
You are wrong, Leann. WRONG!
Exactly.
Let's gather a mob and burn this motha down! All based on heresay and a he said/she said with no names even mentioned.
many women from reporting such crimes (even outside the hobby) and have kept rapists on the street
to continue their abuse and victimization.
You are wrong, Leann. WRONG!
Not taking sides here. Just a few facts. I have known two women who had blackout problems.
Until I knew them very well, I had no idea they were in that condition. It is very possible to unknowingly give consent, and in my experience, even be the aggressor when in that state.
I'm not saying the provider in question gave consent, but I'm also not looking for a tree to hang the accused.
Don't jump to conclusions. Just sayin'.
. . . but as an observation, I've noticed if the woman is drunk (not drugged), she is helpless. If the guy is drunk, that's no excuse.
I can at least see Leeann's point. It is possible that they were drunk and he actually heard the words, "Sure, that sounds like fun." In retrospect, she may deeply regret it or not even remember, but at the time . . .
Don't get me wrong. Occam's Razor would strongly indicate this was a drug rape situation. We lack detail from the horse's mouth.
When I was in my early thirties, I was dating a woman who turned out to be pretty unbalanced. One evening, before she became too strange, we were having a fairly erotic evening. We hadn't slept together yet. She said "no" about four times, but we continued the frisky follies. The fifth time she said "yes." We weren't drinking that night, so the analogy isn't perfect. It was pretty good sex.
After we broke up and it was apparent there were too many loose wires in her skull, I thought back to that night and was afraid (for a while) that she would only remember the "no's" and not the "yes."
This hobbyist's objective was to get the Provider drunk and have unprotected sex. Should she have remained in control of the situation by staying sober? Absolutely. The fact that she failed to do so does not justify what the hobbyist did. I have had two instances where I was confronted with a drunk provider, one I just put her in my bed and let her sleep it off. We had a very nice session when she awoke. The other I simply put her in a cab and sent her on her way.
I frankly don't understand why anyone would want to have sex with a drunk.
For those who dispute it, having sex with a woman who is unable to give consent due to inebriation is rape. It is not likely to be charged, but under the criminal code it is rape.
Do you know this for a fact? How would you know what his intentions were?
His opening statement to her was to get her drunk. I'll take him at his word.
Sorry, I guess I was wrong, I didn't realize you were there also.
Did he coerce her somehow into doing this?
Is this a new/different story? Or the same story?...,
Recently, a known local provider being roughed up/beaten up by a TER BOARD hobbyiest?
Or are these stories different involving different people?
Some of you don't know it, but Minnesota (ahem) gentlemen have a bad rep. That is not a personal opinion, I've heard it from plenty of out state reliable sources.
Yet another sad story to aid in the perpetual Minnesota 'Nice' Guy repertoire.
Yay!
I for one am thankful for my close circle of MN gentlemen friends. I have known most of them for years and I know they would NEVER harm me.
Thank you to the kind and gentle men in our community. And for the woman abusers ---stay home fuck yourself and beat wife and kids--don't hobby, we don't like your kind and don't want your money.
Rape and abuse are a reality in this community. I have ZERO tolerance for this shit.
Ugh, what a horrible thread to read upon returning from paradise.
Softly,
SG
whatever woman had to deal with this I AM VERY SORRY FOR YOU..
I hope you are ok...
and YES if you are going to post about this situation
then look out for the rest of us ladies , for our safety!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Or it may happen again!
But Ladies. If you do chose to have a few drinks with a client,
KNOW YOUR LIMITS- BEWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS - AND WATCH YOUR GLASS!!!!!!!!!!
Just because someone maybe on here as a client with reviews and all means NOTHING TO ME...
I TRUST NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GOT TO BE MORE CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Almost like it's been demoralized because of the alcohol factor.
Hmmm much like when a woman is found murdered & they find out she was a sex worker how her name suddenly changes to " prostitute" as if she's an entirely different being now so, that somehow makes it ok.
That's exactly what Ms leanns comments remind me of. No offense to you Leann. Just noticing that.
Then you're hearing what you want to hear & missing my point entirely.
But you totally wrote it to look like that though & that's why people are wondering wtf.
Again this why I don't indulge with any client I don't care who they are or how long I've known them.
Hopefully she'll put it up for all of us to see on a blacklist somewhere soon if not already.
I don't think anyone is missing your point. A woman gets raped while walking to her car at night to an isolated parking ramp took a chance she shouldn't have. It is still rape. She still doesn't deserve it.
Then you go on to say he made the suggestion prior to the appt?! THAT is where a decline to his request should have occurred to begin with! Good grief! Keep talking. The more you talk the more I'm convinced this is nothing more than BS.
If (and that's a big IF) she was in fact raped YES that is horrible & he should be hung by his nuts! My heart goes out to her. There are just too many unanswered questions & holes in the story that make me wonder.
And you're here WK'ing a provider based on her account of what happened. Are you a man or a spider that was nesting in the corner of the room they were in at the time? I think your intentions are good here but I also think you are thinking through the little head & have fallen for a manipulation hook, line, & sinker. When's your next appt with her? Got a clue yet?
Who better understands having sex with a drunk than you?
DRAMA QUEENS, both of you!
I frankly don't understand why anyone would want to have sex with a drunk.
For those who dispute it, having sex with a woman who is unable to give consent due to inebriation is rape. It is not likely to be charged, but under the criminal code it is rape.
I frankly don't understand why anyone would want to have sex with a drunk.
For those who dispute it, having sex with a woman who is unable to give consent due to inebriation is rape. It is not likely to be charged, but under the criminal code it is rape.
#1 How do you know or how does she know that was his objective to have unprotected sex ?
#2 You also said (His opening statement to her was to get her drunk) So he made a appointment .Got there. Lets say he came with a bottle of vodka. Then said hey lets party and get drunk. I mean this is what you said that she said. (HIS OPENING STATEMENT WAS LETS GET DRUNK).Now she must have been ok with this because she got drunk right?
#3 She consented to sex when she let him in and proceeded with the appointment and proceeded to drink. (HIS OPENING STATEMENT WAS LETS GET DRUNK)
#4 Now sense he said lets get drunk? I will assume he was drunk also at the time on intercourse?
#5 If they are both drinking and both drunk? who is not to say that things got hot and heavy and two drunks went at it not really knowing. SENSE THEY ARE BOTH DRUNK.
#6 How long was this date for.Over night 1hr 2hr 3hr. What provider would want to drink so much in such a little time to be drunk on a 1hr 2hr 3hr date.So I would think that is was a longer over night date?
#7 So am just going to end it with two people got drunk and fucked. (HIS OPENING STATEMENT WAS LETS GET DRUNK)
..... Reasonable, intelligent and insightfulI people invariably get ridiculed on these boards by people who aren't.
Don't fall into this trap Leann!
It appears that we have one side of what occurred. The OP is unable to identify the hobbyist. The alleged hobbyist/rapist may or may not be known to the TER community. Seems to me that this may be a complete rush to judgement. Perhaps I am preaching to the choir, but, ladies and gentlemen periodically we need to remind ourselves this is the business we have chosen. We should all be well aware of what consequences we expose ourselves to. We do this voluntarily and hopefully no provider is being coerced, pimped or trafficked.
If the events are true and factual as related to the OP, it's horrible. It is just simply not possible for a provider to completely feel safe and secure from this kind of brutality. This is not blaming the victim. But, and I repeat, it's a consequence of the business we (hobbyists and providers) have voluntarily chosen to participate in.
Several things:
The hobbyist in question is a rapist. If the provider is unable to consent to a sexual act or not having protection during the act, she is being raped. P4P does not affect this outcome.
If the Provider should become pregnant as a result of the rapist's actions. He could find himself on the hook for child support for the next 18 years.
The rapist exposes her and any hobbyist she may see to any STD he may have.
I am making the community aware of this, but I will not comment further on the subject.
Yes, it is very reasonable to conclude that she consented to bareback a guy. Seriously. You fucking rape apologists and victim blamers are disgusting.
What would be worse, to be raped or wrongly accused of rape?
Take your false equivalency and stuff it in your ear.
Nothing false here, the two are directly related and have been discussed as such in this thread. I have been wrongly accused myself and thought the question would be valid except maybe in a different thread.
Really?? Sorry you were accused, and I've never been a victim of rape but I think I lean towards being accused over being a victim of a violent sex crime. Semi-hard, if I didn't see it here in black & white I would not believe I actually read this.
a victim of rape can NEVER get back what she had taken from her.
Yes, you are right. But we here should not be the judge, jury and the executioner.
Good point Belinda.
I thought I better clarify when I said agreed with Uptonogood, it was his last post above mine about the risk of a woman walking to a parking lot at night and getting rape and I agreed to what Ms. Good said about being confused and what a drag it was to return home to read the OP.
After reading through the thread again last night , I must say that I also agree with Leann and Big Dell as well as others and do not think it was mean spirited of her with her comments.
I very rarely drink in my real life. Unless it is a well known client I have known for years and we share some wine or champagne , a cold beer-that's about it. I think once I saw what this mans intentions were to really hit it hard and really try to coerce me into getting drunk and I am assuming this was a first meeting, the session would of been ended by me, money would of been returned and I would even take a loss on my time and expenses.
If this story told to Uptonogood who I believe is well-meaning and it is not fiction, then for what-ever happened , its a real shame, no woman should be treated that way, but if it is true, I would hope the provider would share her story from her fingers on the Provider only board and offer to give details through private mail, its the right thing to do to protect others- I have not seen that , at least yet- J. xxxoo
wtf. That's crazy non-sense right there. WOW
early on, years ago, the provider was ALWAYS in control of the session. No booze, no drugs, no breaking the rules. With the internet opening up the hobby to many women who wouldn't otherwise be providers, and to men who might not otherwise be hobbyists, things have loosened up.
Ladies - kindly take this as a reminder -- always control the session.
My point exactly! Providers need to take CONTROL! You don't necessarily have to exclude alcohol. I actually like to include a bottle of Champagne at the Jacuzzi, wine & appetizers, in a candlelit room but as romantic enhancers, used in moderation. It can be done. Thanks Pollenbroker.
How unfortunate it is that there are people out there that are willing to put other people at risk for their own pleasure!! It also points out that providers need to be careful and under control during any encounter.
First of all I think what happened here is a good warning for both providers and hobbyist to avoid most drinking while playing. I was once on a snowmobile weekend with three close cabins of people. In one of the other cabins was a twenty something lady who was obviously having a very good time, but seemed in total control. Well she did something very funny that everybody laughed at and talked about for a long time. Well it was several hours before she went into bed. At no time during the night did I ever think she was not in total control and able to make responsible decisions. Well the next morning I teased her about the funny thing she did and she had no recollection of it. So it is possible for a person to seem capable of making smart decisions when there not. I drink very little while playing. And I'd like to point out I am not trying to defend the man in this case.
Non-consensual sex is rape. It doesn't matter to whom it happened to or what led up to it.
So do I.Leanne is only pointing out that one should be responsible to one's self.If you don't want to get hurt,watch out for yourself.
Her first red flag should have been when He told her he was going to get her drunk. Also, no one forced her to consume the drinks. Now, I'm not condoning his behavior, he was terribly wrong, if its a true story. I have my doubts that it is.
This is another one of this providers attention getting drama posts again. She's had so much drama in her life the last year or so its ridiculous.
She has been delisted, so, no, she is not on TER anymore. So she now has a WK posting for her because she can't.
This is just one more incident to add to her so called "troubles". I guess we are all suppose to feel sorry for her again.
Just an educated guess, on my part as to who the provider is.
Hey, everyone have a very good Memorial Holiday weekend!!
I agree, sounds a lot like a Drama Queen to me. Not a lot of facts have been posted, just a lot of hearsay and allegations.
She and I have had our disagreements but assault and rape is not to be condoned no matter who the victim is and regardless of the circumstances surrounding the assault.
In this case, most everyone knows her issues with alcohol and yet men continue to bring her wine, encouraging her reckless and irresponsible behavior. If that is what happened here, then he is even more at fault. He knew exactly what he was doing, IMO.
We are told the client told the provider at the start he intended to get her drunk. The question then becomes why she didn't end the session right then and there. If she tried to and he coerced her then that it is clear cut case of rape. But she said nothing to the OP about being forced. So then the question becomes is the story the provider told true at all because I don't see why she wouldn't end the session right away unless she was forced to go through with it.
You would not believe how many providers do things they do not wish to do because of the threat (spoken or unspoken) of bad reviews, lost clientele, and back channel. Men have power here in the form of money, size, strength, and talk. Money is a huge motivator for both good and bad. Providers who make this there sole source of income may feel they have to do certain things for the money......to keep a roof over there heads and feed their family's, for the reviews (good reviews keep clients rolling in) and to prevent back channel talk. Some men will take advantage of the fear that these things can and do instill in providers.
I talk to providers from all across the USA and I hear it every single day......every single day. It is sad and
disheartening and I only wish that ladies would take back their power and not let fear stop them from taking care of themselves
Coercion is the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats or intimidation or some other form of pressure or force, and describes a set of various different similar types of forceful actions that violate the free will of an individual to induce a desired response. These actions can include, but are not limited to, extortion, blackmail, torture, and threats to induce favors. In law, coercion is codified as a duress crime. Such actions are used as leverage, to force the victim to act in a way contrary to their own interests. Coercion may involve the actual infliction of physical pain/injury or psychological harm in order to enhance the credibility of a threat. The threat of further harm may lead to the cooperation or obedience of the person being coerced.
All we have is what we have heard from the OP and that is confusing and raises the distinct possibility that what she told him simply is not what happened. Without better information, which we don't have and may never have, anything else is speculation at this point.
Though I agree with Belinda and others in that if this was rape it shouldn't be tolerated but to vilify and make absurd demands of Leann and others for asking the hard questions is also deplorable.
Do we truly know that the hobbyist was out to get her drunk for the explicit reason of unprotected sex?
Does she even know what really happened?
Did he know she was blacked out?
If you posters are willing to exonerate the provider because she was drunk are you also willing to exonerate the hobbyist if he was?
There are to much hearsay here to rush to judgement
The only two that know what really happened that day are the client and the provider. Her word against his.
I agree with vorlon, she should have ended the session when he told her he was going to get her drunk. As has been stated before, ladies, and also the gentlemen here, ALWAYS be in control of your situation.
As far as bringing alcohol to a session with this provider, she's an adult, she can make the decision as to weather to drink it or not. Its her choice to make. If she can't make a good decision, then maybe she should seek help.
Now if what was told to the OP is true, the client did a horrible thing to her. I am in no way condoning what the hobbyist did to her. It was a despicable act on his part. I wish her the best and I hope she gets the help she needs to get through this.
Do we truly know that the hobbyist was out to get her drunk for the explicit reason of unprotected sex?
Does she even know what really happened?
Did he know she was blacked out?
If you posters are willing to exonerate the provider because she was drunk are you also willing to exonerate the hobbyist if he was?
There are to much hearsay here to rush to judgement.
Agreed ... Hopefully the provider in question sees this and comments ... She can make a new account. If the hobbyist is someone we should be warned about then let us know his name and number. In the end it was a good reminder to all of us to be careful and know the limits ... All limits.
The one thing I didn't see brought up and maybe I just missed it: did he think that in paying for her services that was consent ... If it happened as said?
I agree with vorlon, she should have ended the session when he told her he was going to get her drunk. As has been stated before, ladies, and also the gentlemen here, ALWAYS be in control of your situation.
As far as bringing alcohol to a session with this provider, she's an adult, she can make the decision as to weather to drink it or not. Its her choice to make. If she can't make a good decision, then maybe she should seek help.
Now if what was told to the OP is true, the client did a horrible thing to her. I am in no way condoning what the hobbyist did to her. It was a despicable act on his part. I wish her the best and I hope she gets the help she needs to get through this.
Do we truly know that the hobbyist was out to get her drunk for the explicit reason of unprotected sex?
Does she even know what really happened?
Did he know she was blacked out?
If you posters are willing to exonerate the provider because she was drunk are you also willing to exonerate the hobbyist if he was?
There are to much hearsay here to rush to judgement.
issed that you would even start this topic. This is just awful gossip and hearsay.
No names or further details make this story more about you being a gossip .... Dare I say white knight ... than providing real helpful information.
Provide details or don't even bring it up. What good has come of this thread other than bring attention to you and your inside information. I think this thread all about you and what you know.
just another post with no names mentioned. What good comes out of these kinds of posts? If people are not going to give names on a thread like this one or the next one ranting about a NSNC, keep it between yourself and the other person.
Act like adults, work it out.
Have a nice Memorial Day weekend, everyone.
I had many blackouts as a foolish young man. I can remember times when I awoke the next day and staggered out to make sure my car was parked where it was supposed to be. It was always parked just fine.
Often, I would ask my drinking buddies how I had behaved and was NEVER told I did anything unusual.
To jump to the conclusion that the hobbyist in question raped the provider is foolish, she obviously doesn't remember what happened, the hobbyist could have been in a blackout as well. She may have consented to unprotected sex, but that can't be proven any more than a rape can. Providers have been known to allow unprotected sex, happened to me a couple of times.
Sounds to me like this hobbyist certainly has a drinking problem.
We haven't even heard from the provider in question, only a second hand account