Real is not a dumb guy, and he makes his points forcefully and well. He repeats his opinion whenever the issue comes up. His opinions are not unreasonable, given the nature of this hobby, but that does not mean a reasonable person can not balance the risk/benefit scales a bit differently.

Much depends on what you are looking for. Real has said many times that he mostly finds his dates from backpage, and has also stated often that he feels it is not necessary to pay top dollar to get a good experience. Again, both are reasonable decisions but I approach things a bit differently. I never look at backpage. There are quality experiences to be had there, but there are also rip-offs and unsavory characters and I don't want the hassle of dealing with that element, even if it is only to weed them out of my decision making. That is the big, and very real, downside to the process RealP4U advocates. I am willing to pay a bit more to be a bit more certain of receiving the experience I desire.

The Preferred411 verification site works very well for me. When I first joined, as a newbie, I had to give up personal information to the operators of the web site. Those operators, according to my information, are in Canada and all of their servers are in Canada. This hobby is legal in Canada. I think it unlikely that a Canadian court would order P411 to turn over its servers wholesale at the request of US LE for anything less drastic than a murder investigation. And that assumes US LE would first go to the expense of hiring Canadian attornies to make the request in proper fashion.

And P411 pays attention. When the MN Nice Guys blew up they shut down the Minnesota page and denied access to Minnesota users for a couple of months to protect everyone from the possible dangers. Then they gave everyone a free extension when the site was back up and running.

But assume for a moment that the worst happened. Okay, if P411 lied and did not disgard my personal information once the initial verification process was completed, then it would be possible for US LE to get my name. They might also learn that a few women have given me Okays. Embarrassing, perhaps, but not proof of illegal activity. They might also find that PMs have been sent to a few women from "my" account, but they wouldn't find proof of any actual dates being made, because the conversation always shifts to email after the initial contact. The PM is sent to introduce myself and point the lady at my Profile. That's all. I consider it a tolerable risk.

What do I get? I have a listing of women who have been invited to join P411 by one of the members. Not a guarantee, but a start. I have a Profile for the lady that not infrequently gives me a bit more information than is apparent in the TER Profile. Sometimes rates are offered to P411 members that are advantageous. But mostly, I get to point them at my Profile and Okays.

There are lots of women in P411 whose web site demands personal information. Sometimes there is a stern warning that unless all information is turned over there will be no date. My response is to send an introductory PM in P411, asking them to look at my Profile and Okays and let me know if that suffices to make them comfortable. I've done this a number of times and been rejected exactly once. That time I moved on. So yes, the operators of P411 might have my personal info if they lied and didn't disgard it, but they can't connect me to any specific activity. Or maybe they told the truth and disposed of it. And the potentially "insane or unprofessional" ladies I meet do not get my personal info at all. Once again, I consider it a tolerable balance of risks and benefits.

I don't really understand how you can say it benefits primarily providers.  I think its mutually beneficial for both they and us.  The discretion and verification value is valuable to both, and the ability to access providers who would otherwise not be, without providing personal info, is of great value to hobbyists.  Additionally its been the best source of discovering great providers when traveling and when you don't have a lot of time to spend sifting through hundreds of possibilities by just browsing ads.  There can still be some bad apples if you couple the listings there with reviews here, its almost a safe bet with a minimum of effort.  

Plus, you can obtain a P411 membership easily without providing any personal info by being verified by existing members.  Newbies will have greater difficulty.  If I were starting from scratch, I would first browse TER reviews looking for providers with P411 ads.  A non member can link directly to their ad. From there, or from TER itself, you can obtain either email or phone contact info.  You are likely to find one or more who will see you without verification.  (trust me in that many, despite a stated policy, will dispense with their rules, and many don't have a verification policy to begin with.  For some, its simply a matter of never discussing money or services before "engaging" each other).  Once you have an existing P411 lady who will verify you, you can join without providing employment info.  You might also find that starting with erotic massage provider types, and again with those who are listed by P411, will likely get past the verification hurdle.  

-- Modified on 10/8/2012 9:38:41 AM

The advantage of verification sites having personal info vs providers is that if the provider for some reason decides she has an axe to grind, she does not have my information and there is no reason for the verification site to give it to her; their business would be ruined if they did that sort of thing.  P411 has the additional advantage that being based in Canada they don't answer to US LE and have no reason to cooperate with US LE because that would also ruin their business.

Of course it is not foolproof but being a hobbyist is not risk free no matter what you do.  It's a matter of understanding the risks as best you can and deciding what level of risk you find acceptable.