I'm a photographer. I have been toying with the idea of helping some of the local ladies with their photos as many of their shots are very poor.

I had contacted a local provider and offered my services at no charge in exchange for her help promoting my services within the hobby.

After a couple months of infrequent e-mails trying to schedule a time for the shoot, I had given up. She e-mailed me back some time later asking if I was still interested. I agreed and we finally scheduled a time.

We met on a Friday afternoon at her incall hotel. The room was not super big and dimly lit, which did add a little challenge to the shoot, but we made it work. The shoot lasted about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. I shot probably 500 photos knowing full well that the percentage of keepers was going to be quite low.

I promised her I would provide finished photos within a few days. I actually got at least a half dozen to her right away and she seemed happy. I got another handful of photos to her soon after, and even more a couple weeks later.

I have been quite busy with traveling and work and not checking my e-mails often. I just discovered that she sent me a hate filled message a week or two ago. It seems, she thought I was going to provide her with every photo that I took. She now thinks that this was all a scam and I just took advantage of her to get her photos so I could sit at home and jerk off.

I provided 15-20 professional photos at no charge which took several hours of my time and she's not happy with this at all.

Any photographer can back me up on this, not every click of the shutter results in a good photo, and as someone trying to promote my abilities, I will not give/show photos that don't meet my standards. I'm trying to make my client look good, which makes me look good.

She claims that she is going to "report" me. Her words: "...and I hope u dont try this on someone else im reporting ur buisness and site
so watch out"

So, that's my story. I guess my side career is over before it started. I had nothng but good intentions and fully fulfilled my end of our bargain. I guess if these are the types of people that I'd have to deal with in this biz, than I'm better off sticking with my normal gigs anyways.

you're fighting a losing battle dude. There is not a provider alive, who will believe that you are doing all this out of the goodness of your heart. It is very generous of you to want to use your talents to improve the quality of images in the local scene, but trust me, calling a provider to offer pro pics for free will only set off creepy alarms in her head. Even if you were a well known photog, with a quality webpage of your work, most providers will simply think you are just a creepy dude looking for a ruse to get in their pants.

as for the meeting itself, I cast a bit of blame on you here. most girls are not photographers. they have little or no concept of lighting and exposure. all she knows is that you spent almost 2 hours taking pictures of her, in various states of undress, for which she received around 20-30. it's not out of line for her to wonder what happened to the other 450+.

her harsh reaction seems like there might be more to the story, ie she gave up the goods in exchange for the free pics and now feels like you got the pole waxed while she got the shaft.

if she does come on here and puts you on blast, depending on who she is, you are correct, your burgeoning career might indeed be over.

Since it seems like your flash is inoperable in dimly lit situations, why not just use the current nice weather to your advantage? Take her to a local park, or your balcony and use sunlight and re do the shoot, this time, taking no more than an hour and then immediately emailing her back ALL the pictures.

pain in the ass? absolutely, but far better then having her put you on blast and do some damage to your rep.

that's unfortunate. you should go ahead and send her all the bad shots. she won't use them to advertise, if she's smart - but that way she can see for herself that not every single shot is perfect. she's probably never been shot professionally before and doesn't understand. even the prettiest models and the best photographers have lots of dud shots, and i think most girls know this. personally, when i have a photo shoot, i am happy to get ten great pics out of it!

It's the nature of the beast especially in this business, if you're legit just continue on your business. If you make your intention known as you did this post, then there's nothing to hide right?

I am Appalled that you even would post this on the board. Kinda seems like you know what you did was wrong. Since I am the provider you are referring to I would love to Share My Side of this story.Ladies I highly suggest that You never Use this "photographer" Because Of these reason stated.....

Yes I emailed him asking him if he would take my photos. [first mistake] It was only After he had emailed me [repeatedly] telling me how great His service was and Oh he Has all the right Lighting I had nothing to worry about. I would get a majority of my photos that night and the rest about a week later. To a new provider this sounded like a "Dream Come True" if yah know what I mean [HA]

So we Scheduled our time and I went And Purchased outfits and shoes and got my Hair All Nicely done I even got my Toes and my nails Painted Because "This guy was so good" LOL

To Make a  Long story short The Guy came in Took some great photos from what he was telling me at least. I was in about 4 different outfits 3 different backgrounds Im talking the whole nine  We finish he tells me he will start working on them as soon as possible and get them back to me.

Okay so what it all Boils down to is This:
I received about 7 Photos with All the same outfits 2 backgrounds with the exception of one.
So for you DH to state that you did so much Are You KIDDING ME if You were only going to give me the photos from one outfit one background the other 300 photos would not have been taken. So yes I do feel I was jipped in the whole thing. I know the session was totally free [on Both Sides] I also feel you could have informed me on what I was really doing there!!!

I don't blame You [Im a Sexy Gal]
YES I told him I would tell everyone and make sure he would NEVER get any business anymore EVER, but I had to get his Heart Pumping some way right! I mean what is a girl suppose to do?

Im a Fairly NEW provider and I have been warned About the weirdo's that just take your photos and use them for there OWN self desires but I guess I just had to see for myself

Just my .02
Ladies PM me if you want anymore details!!!
DH Have a Great Day Hun
THANKS FOR YOUR HARD EFFORT

I was just about to post under your ad that I really like the new photos you have.  : )  Hah!!!

What I've learned: In the world of business, if somebody is really GREAT at anything, they don't need to hussle their services.  They don't need to give it away for free.  If they're GREAT, their talent will speak for itself. Would you ever give your "skills" away for free just to try and drum up business from others?
Another thing that no professional photographer would do: come on the boards and post about how most of the local providers have bad pictures.
Thanks DH.  I think you killed your business all on your own.  

I think your new photos are good, but of course, it's you lovely one.  You make the pictures good.  

that there was any sort of exchange. Just something about the story didn't all ring true and I figured there was more to the story.

of course if I had pointed it out like I really wanted to, belindabelle would have stopped my train real quick to say I'm outta line.


Something is strange in the frikkin water tonite.

the pics in the ad you posted tonight are pics YOU took of yourself and NOT the pics DH took, correct?

Kristin, you are a beautiful lady...no matter which photographer took photos of you, if he could only get a handful of good shots out of 500, I'm sorry, but that would seem to be a problem to me.  I have seen you in person and that just doesn't seem right.   I wonder how many of the gents would agree with me?   You, my dear one, are smokin' hot!  You could make a burlap sack look sexy!

OP, I think you are full of beans. Sorry.  YOu need to forward those "bad" shots to the lovely Ms. Kristin and stop using them for whatever it is you are using them for.  If they really are "bad" shots what difference would it make to you anyway?
My .02 cents.

advise!!
where are the listening ears?!?!

Put some strange stuff in water supply.

Or maybe I just need to get laid.

and I am having my first professional photo shoot mid-April!!!!   Soooooooo excited!!!!!

Hugs, Belinda

It's just sometimes you guys make no sense to me.  Just like us ladies make no sense to you guys sometimes too, right?    Such is life!

 I promise to continue being my normal sweet self!  And will only bite when asked to!!

Hugs, Belinda

Kristin,

Please PM me if you would like a list of reputable professional photographers that are provider friendly.

Sweetie, it happens...

I had a similar experience last summer when I was in between photographers trying to find a good deal for the moment. What really sticks it to me is I PAID the guy $150 to take photos of me, which is basically free compared to most reputable photographers. He came to my secluded hotel and took photos of me. He was certain my blazer looked "corny" and that I should lose it, because none of the guys would like it. He kept saying something was wrong with the light and he just needed to take a few more photos to get the lightening right. Hmmm... He kept asking me personal questions about how much money do I make escorting and how booked out am I typically, etc. He was so fascinated with my line of work that it made me nervous. When I really knew he was on bull shit is when the next 30 frames were up close of my breast area after I had told him to look at my site before the "shoot" to get an idea of what I look for in my photos. When have you ever seen me use mainly close up breasts shots on my site? NEVER.

AND he contacted me. His photos were dimly lit as well. A real professional photographer knows how to get the lighting right.

Look sweetie, we all make mistakes. At least you learned this early in the game so you won't make the mistake later on. Further, you now have some wisdom you can pass on to other new girls. Also, you learned to never see a "photographer" who contacts you or doesn't have an online portfolio, reputation or references.

We can't help that there are creeps out there. All we can do is learn to better work around them.

Please PM me with his info.

Good luck hun.

Xoxo.

I don't care how "nice", "talented" or "persistant" a so-called "photographer" is who is also a hobbyist, DO NOT FALL FOR THIS!

You probably make well over 60K+ a year (or 300K if you're fairly high end and really busy) just bite the bullett and spend the $500-$1000 it costs to get a ligit photographer who will give you EVERYTHING he has.  They'll mostly promise about 30 photos that are retouched or they'll give them to you and let you decide which ones you like best and retouch those.

It looks like this guy did an average job but, no offense, DH, I could've gotten this job done with a spot light and my $150 Sony Cybershot.  It's the girl in the photos that make them really nice, not the photography. With a PROFESSIONAL, he can make just about anybody look amazing with the right lights and the right camera.

HEED THIS ADVICE, LADIES- Skip the jokers who just want to get you naked and "bond". They are RARELY professionals so, in this case esspecially, "YOU GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR".  Your photos look great because of you and now some random dude has a ton of photos of you for whatever it is he wants to do with them.  

HEED THIS ADVICE, GENTS- Ladies like us will never be satisfied with your "good deeds". If it ends up coming off creepy, you're best saving your good deeds for volunteering elsewhere. If you'd like ladies to go to your site and PROVE to them that way that you do a good job, post your website for them to see or send it to each one individually. If you do a great job, it WILL go noticed.

Or are you going to tell us that photo is YOU?
You sound ungrateful and vengeful.
You should return his photos and not use them in the future.

Well, I know I'm not going to win this battle and I'm sure that most of you think that I'm just some freak that wanted to take some nudie pics with my $35 digicam.

My intentions were good, and knowing that it is hard to break into the "circle of trust" in this biz, I made an offer to work for free to hopefully prove my worth and get some referrals.

I understand now that this was clearly a mistake and my plans for this side biz have been scrapped as I certainly chose the wrong route here.

MsKristin, please enjoy using the pics that I have sent you. As I believe they are great shots. Yes, I do agree that Kristin is beautiful and she makes the photos shine, but that is why I sought her out. If I wanted to start a business shoot photos of cars, I wouldn't start with a Ford Taurus, I'd pick the Ferrari.

Kristin, I know you don't believe me, but I had nothing but a professional outlook on all of this, and never once went against my word.

After the way I have been treated here after all my hard work, I'm still going to be the professional. All of your images have been deleted.

Well said.

Most of these 'photographers' prey on the newer, younger, more vulnerable ladies. It's sad, but the reality is..they wouldn't do it if the ladies would just learn that nothing is ever free. If is seems to good to be true, it usually is. Freebies like this often come with hidden agendas and expectations..

Probably not.

Hmmm...

Taking advantage of the naïve is not ok.

-- Modified on 3/20/2010 9:56:34 AM

It's HER photo from her BP ad.

Geez people. You are making me out o be some sort of evil perv, and all I did was give a girl some pro shots at no charge. I did NOTHING that warrants all this hatred.

Kristin, please accept my apologies for not making myself clear, but I did say when we met, that if even only a few of these photos turned out well, you'd be ahead of the game. Honestly, what have I done to deserve this awful treatment? Did you get a bunch of professional photos to use to market yourself? Did you pay anyone a god damn dime for those photos?

Apparently, in this biz self shots in the bathroom mirror with a cell phone cam are just as good as what I offered. I have learned now that my offerings are not respected or wanted, and I am moving on.

I'm sorry I even tried to defend myself, this will be my last post. In all seriousness, I do wish you all well, good luck in your lives and please do try to give the good guy the benefit of the doubt sometimes.

In all honesty, I had no idea that there were fake "photographers" out there trying to pull shit on you ladies. I guess I am just naive.

I had nothing but good intentions.

I see now how my actions could have been mistaken for some perv trying to get some naked shots.
Honestly, if that is what I was after, there are plenty of places online to find porn and naked images. I would certainly have not gone to all this trouble to see and photo a naked woman.

I guess no one here values talent. Keep taking those lame self shots in the mirrors ladies, they look really great!

"all your images have been deleted"

And she's supposed to take your word for that??   Puhllleeeezzzze!!!!!!!   Be a good little photographer man and meet her somewhere neutral with disk in hand........

This is the unfortunate story of two naive people. As someone who started their career many years ago as a freelance photographer and worked in the field for many years I can completely relate to his story and it rings true to me. Plus I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.

There are any number of reasons that this kind of photography should be left to specialists, ideally those who are either asexual or women.

Kristin should have realized that any new photographer (e.g one without a portfolio of exactly the kind of shots you want) is going to be learning at the expense of their subjects. Also, anyone should realize that pictures and/or services of such a sensitive nature should never be done without a written contract between the two parties. If it is portraits at Sears no big deal but with something like this using a newbie and not having a contracts was clearly one of the mistakes that was made.

However both of them are at fault because neither of them knew exactly how this was supposed to work. They both now feel like they got a bum deal and that my friends is a valuable lesson for all of us.

A couple of footnotes. Ladies, you were just plain too hard on DH here IMO. Not to say I don't think he was stupid but none of us who were not directly involved can ever know the whole story and no person can ever claim to really know the motivations of another. His biggest mistake was not seeing the possibility of this all going horribly wrong...

Also, Belinda, suggesting he meet her at some neutral point with a disk in hand suggests you don't really understand how digital photography works so let me just say that the movies are all bullshit and there is no disk he could hand her that would provide any sort of closure considering that he could have made a million copies of every photo once he had the first one.

Finally GIa mentioned a model release form, which implores me, as someone who works in the field of copyright protection to recommend that not only should no woman ever sign one but that you go so far as to require anyone who photographs you to do so under a "work for hire" written contract.

Any real photographer will know what this is and should understand that the sensitive nature of pictures of this type warrants such a contract. Taking this one step further I would strongly recommend that any woman being photographed be accompanied by an assistant who is familiar with both photographic and information technology and is tasked with ensuring that no photographs are retained by the photographer. In this case it would be reasonable for the ladies to license specific photos back to the photographer for promotional use once they have had a chance to approve them and if necessary retouch or modify them to their liking. Finally, any digital retouching or photo processing of images by third parties should be subject to the same level of scrutiny and protection as the taking of the photos.  If you want more info on how to protect images of yourself feel free to PM me.

With all due respect Belinda, saying they are deleted are just as good as if he met her in some back alley with the "disk."   Even if he returned a disk there is no way anybody would know if he still had a copy.  

That being said, I can see both sides of the argument here.  And not that my gut instinct means anything, but I don't think he is some perv trying to get his jollies.  Lord knows there are plenty of free photos of Kristin (and others) that he could use to accomplish that.  Plus, his photos look VERY nice, VERY professional, and VERY hot.  

Just my $0.02, which for most people probably isn't even worth that.

LOL, dude, if you're going to criticize our mirror self-portraits, don't you think you ought to post one of yourself for comparison?

The problem here isn't a misunderstanding between two people, the problem is that a provider is sending hate filled emails to someone who tried to do her a favor.

Hell, years ago I took some impromptu digital camera shots of providers that had shitty pics and they used them in ads.  Like DH says, even though they were not studio shots they were better than bathroom mirror quality.  Really not a big deal.

Why so many people are implying the OP is doing something sinister with the photos is beyond me.  He said they were crappy so he didn't send them.

No big deal, until another provider decides to hurt her business by A: Wigging out over email on someone, the B: Continuing to do so on the TER board.  

Anyone else ever notice that the very best providers never get into board scraps?

of which I am having a professional shoot by a NATIONALLY known and himself highly reviewed and highly saught after photographer is burning me a disk on the spot and handing it to me.  

Yep a pervert could have pics spread all over the internet and on all kinds of media...but it would be a symbol of good faith and perhaps a way for Kristin to find a little respect for the man if he would get the pics of his computer and onto a disk and hand them over to her.  I am not so stupid and gullible as to think that it would  solve everything and that the pics would forever vanish.   I am 45 years old and experienced alot in my life and am not ignorant in the ways of life or in the ways of digital photography!   Thank you very much.  I have no idea why it would take him 2 wks to get her a handful of pics.

as I posted elsewhere in this thread, I do realize that the OP could have Kristin's pic posted all over the internet and in different mediums by now. And I am not so gullible and naive as to think saving the pic onto a disk means its gone from everywhere else that its been.   But, getting the pics OFF his computer, onto a disk and handing them to her would be a nice gesture on the part of the OP and would maybe give her a little peace of mind....MAYBE.  

Thank you for sharing your .02 cents.  I definately think it was worth it and I appreciate your kind approach.  

Hugs, Belinda

No, this is not something I've noticed. Sadly, every provider on this board has been through a hazing. From Alissa to Vanessa, with Anya and Greenly and Kristen and others in between, new providers always have always had to scrap with someone in order to make their place on this board. Why are you feigning innocence while you cast aspersions upon everyone but some nebulous "best providers"?

Mirrors have values.

2-15

why is a photographer coming on a p4p site to trash a provider?   His complaint doesn't belong here.  Her sending a nasty gram to a photographer has ZERO to do with her ability to perform her job as an escort.

Many of us ask our gentlemen friends to take shots for us.  But, we have them take those shots with OUR cameras so we can maintain control over what happens with OUR pictures.  We do use those pictures sometimes.  So, the times haven't changed all that much.

Just a few things.Even I know any digital SLR camera can be hooked up to a laptop and you can download as you shoot or You can transfer files easily from digital cameras, hand held Pcs And Other flash comptabile devices to your desktop Or notebook.I take photo's am not a pro or amateur.But I have taken a few photo's for friends.I bring my laptop with and USB cable CBL cablecoolpix I got for $5.99. Just hook it up to my camera and right to my laptop.The photo's are there for you to see and pick from and take with you.(blank disk or flash drive)If DHRider04 does not have this simple equipment then he is no photographer.For Kristen if some smuck showed up with just a camera and no lighting You should have known some thing was up,And that he was not as good as he promised.

Well, the original poster did NOT name the provider.  He merely said "a local provider."  The provider in question was the one that revealed that it was her.  Honestly, this thread STILL would have probably hit a nerve had she not, but certainly not to this degree.

I think tmmcnghtn's post is spot on...there is blame on both sides of the fence here.

Kristin's site has "right-click" disabled and the pic has a watermark.  This makes it a little harder for people to use pics without permission.  

You present the pic here without those minimal protections.

My advice is that you need to study this market a lot longer before telling us how it ought to be done.

BTW, and just for grins, I'd rather have the Ford account than the Ferrari account.  I'm guessing Ford pays better.

Kristen is not being hazed, she is being criticized for freaking out about getting free photos.

Greenly got bad reviews from unsatisfied clients saying she did not perform as advertised.  That's part of what happens here.  

When was Alissa hazed? She was indeed a true NCNS artist at one time and appears to have eliminated that behavior.

The best providers are not "nebulous" they are the ones who perform well consistently and never get into scraps on TER boards.   Anastasia is a good example.  You may be able to think of others.

Another synic amongst the rest of the nay sayers.

Helping a lady out with photos is not all that uncommon nor difficult to do.  

I have done it two ways, I'll bring a camera that uses film, take a certain number of photos with the film the lady has purcheased.  After each roll is taken it is set aside for the lady to keep, this presents one problem, how to get them developed and where.  Some of the develpoers for this are not so trust worthy and unless you have your own dark room, a pain in the ass.  OR she can come over to my place and I will develope them with her present, she pays for the developing process and paper and takes the photos with her and brings the negatives when she comes and leaves.

2nd method is she brings her own digital camera or buys a memory stick for mine which I will provide.  When we are done, I will provide her with the memory stick, she can then buy the docking system/firewire and load them to her own laptop and she can edit them herself or I will do it for her right in front of her.  I never take the photos into my possesion EVER!  Now I am not looking for that type of photo for my portfolio as I am a family photographer and it would not be acceptable on my studio table for all to see.

Now you ask why would anyone do FREE shoots?  I do them all the time, if the person is willing to take on the developing part, I often do favors for publicity purposes.

Now my money comes from those that want quality photos with no hastle or involvement.  Make me look good and tell me what it will cost me!

I scoff at the need for model releases, bah humbug, if you are a good photographer, your clients will have no problem signing a copy of a photo for your portfolio.  Those photogs that want to hold negatives and photos for ransom should be all out of business for stupidity reasons if nothing else.

People are not stupid, they understand not every frame turns out, I don't worry about others showing photos I took that did not turn out, why would they?  They want to show themselves at their best right?  Now if you take 150 frames and none of them are good quality, watch the shit storm begin.  

500 photos in one shoot?  I feel bad for Kristen, no need for that many frames rediculous!  I take 30-50 frames per dressing change or back drop, and I get way more than enough good frames.

This was a case of inexperience yes, but way too much thinking as well.

DH, learn to take photos of quality. Lighting takes 1-2 shots per lighting change ,that is it!  Learn to get your model to shine, that takes practice and a GOOD EYE!  Kristen is naturally beautiful and my god, she wasn't wearing that much to fuck up a picture so you are shooting natural beauty.  A facial expression and natural movement is all that is needed.  Setting, a hotel room most times has way more lighting than is needed, you would swear that someoen wanted to tan under the lights in a hotel room, count them at least 10 freaking bulbs in one small room.  Not too mention natural sunlight through an open window!

Kristen all this stated above, I also know of at least 4 ladies that LOVE to take photos, and with you as a model, you might be surprised at the outcome and cost to get it done!  Post on the PO board, you just might find a viable solution there as well!  Sorry you had to spend that much time posing....you must have been exhausted when it was over!

Blabber mouth out!  Going to be another great sunset...time to dig out the camera, no added lighting needed!