Just seeking a little feedback. I am now retired (from working), and don’t hobby much at all anymore. I saw between 700 and 800 women over 25 years ( a pittance compared to many of you). It sure seems as though there are many factors involved in all of this.
1) Cities have really shut us down, right? Understanding and applauding efforts to contain trafficking, it still seems as though the industry has look largely disappeared. There’s no walk in anymore, and when I look at something like Listcrawler it sure looks like many fake ads. The ads often contain the same words and phrases (I.e. “shower sex with many positions). I just don’t know anymore. I sure miss the old days. I wish all of you current hobbyists nothing but the best!
I am pretty tired of guys who are whining that they can't buy a slide with pocket change. .
The business model is generating its own Supply Chain Shortages.
1. Clients who believe that they are entitled to sexually harass sexworkers by publishing reviews without their consent, publishing private content like addresses or unadvertised services, revealing prior hobby names that may have been abandoned to evade a stalker or violent partner, describing events like forcing providers to get out of their car and walk back home, etc.
2. Demeaning harassing TER Categories (which ironically forbids reviews that slam or denigrate a provider) OK if you are drunk, homely, ugly, I was scared.
3. Increasing number of well paying jobs that do not involve stigma, risk of arrest, risk of assault, inability to be honest with potential life partners, etc. The median wage in MN now is about 48,000 year, $23 hr. Two or three clients a week may not be worth it.
TER's client dominated model may not work anymore. If sexwork is to succeed in the mainstream, it will have to function more like a real service industry with respect and livable wages.
I basically agree with most of what you have said but:
Providers and agencies are a business and if advertising like any other business can and probably should be reviewed - those who look like the pictures and perform will be the first to say clients will start to line up
Reviewers who give out addresses are assholes as well as those who give out the e old names especially if they do not know why names were changed.
As for the 23 dollars an hour that is full time to do that and then is totally taxable.
Some providers are full time but more are part time and where else can they go and work - even at an agency where they only keep 80 of the first 180 pick up that kind of walking around money.
Any client who dumps a provider on the street should be drug behind the car.
Agree there is a stigma to being a provider as there is being a John but a bigger one to being a pimp.
Going back to your three customers a week if that is all they are getting and at it full time they had better run to that nearest $23/ hour job and do the nine to five job or the11 to 7 shift at Holiday - whoops that does not pay $23 / hr
There are many wonderful providers out there and many wonder clients and then there is a lot to be desired on both sides left over .
I agree that it is unrealistic to expect providers who advertise to not get reviews. Clients to the extent reasonably possible want to have an idea what to expect before going to see someone or even attempting to schedule an appointment. That was the purpose of the review system, flawed though it may be.
I've said numerous times that far too many people are way too specific in what they say about incall locations. It's frustrating because that sort of thing almost never used to happen. I also agree guys should have the sense to keep their mouths shut when a provider provides them an unexpected service.
The name change matter is more difficult. Providers often change their names to, among other reasons, try and run away from a history of poor performance and ripping clients off. I do know that in the past providers have been able to talk to TER and in cases where they are being stalked or the like, create a new identity that TER will not allow to be combined with an old one.
The TER descriptions are a TER matter. No one here can do anything about them. Personally I'd just as soon do away with all of them.
As far as sexwork being successful in the mainstream goes, first it has to be accepted in the mainstream and we are nowhere near that.
“Clients who believe that they are entitled to sexually harass sexworkers by publishing reviews without their consent.”
Consent? Are you for real? Any working escort should know that there is a high probability that they will be reviewed on TER. There isn’t and has never been an expectation from providers that their services wouldn’t be reviewed in the modern TER era.
Please don’t use those financial figures again comparing a working girl to the average hard working Jane making $48K paying taxes. I know multiple local regulars walking home with $2K+ a day tax free. If the “supply chain issue” was so bad then why do we have so many beautiful visiting ladies flying in to visit us each week? And how about the local girls? Am I the only one who feels like a kid in the candy store viewing ads on MNE? There is no shortage of girls. Why do you think so many local girls with 7 or 8 looks are getting $500 or $600 and hour for sex? The market here is very strong.
You do keep saying multiple providers are making over $2000 a day. I bet there are a ton of ladies out there wondering how they do that. If these are MNE providers thats like 7 guys a day which includes sharing rooms with multiple ladies when they only work 5-6 hours a day. Guys must be giving massive tips.
Reminds me of a traveling provider in downtown MPLS a few summers back. She was not that well known, I found her through social media sites. She claimed she had a very busy few days here seeing like 10 guys a day each day for 3 days. She told me she liked to be busy. Throw in the fact it was a key carded hotel, she came to get each guy near the bar and then walked you up to the room. It was her only visit here and she hasn't been back. If I was making 4 grand a day at a city 30 guys wanted to see me I think I would be back but I guess not. I recently saw a traveling provider a few weeks ago and she did post her availability. She was here for 3 days and saw like 3 guys total, I was her first. And she was better and younger than the one a few years ago.
She is still around, changed her menu, lives out east, and gets meh reviews now because of the little she offers.
I always thought this is not a very big community but the way Miggs talks about some of these girls there are like 20 guys sitting outside these ladies places on a daily basis just waiting to give them $300-400 just to say hi to them. Man if I was one of these "multiple" ladies I would be getting it while the gettings good. While some of the ladies I share the place with are probably making nothing.
Looking at your reviews, you have never even seen or at least reviewed any MNE girls in your 125 reviews so who the fuck are you to have an opinion about them?
Nice try comparing MNE girls who book up 7 sessions a day in a condo compared to someone who only books 3 sessions a day hustling a hotel bar.
The top MNE girls making $2K a day are seeing mostly weekly regulars who fuck them for hundreds and even tip on top of that.
I am once again confused....how the hell do you know all this ?? are you actually the super sleuth that sees all these lovely ladies ? That also seem to drool over you and hope you will return for another taste ?? and just not review them ?? Sometimes the playboy just seems to be all knowing and very opinionated but It is amazing to me and hope others also see, that you can slam someone as not correct or actually looked at as if they are dumb in their postings and reviews while all you do is stir up the threads and never give us anything positive to read in your reviews or your posts for that matter. Seems sort of hard for me to understand that for you to be giving an opinion on reviews that in this lifetime or at least this platform (TER) you are not providing to actually compare.
How did that wednesday shill day go ??? Shilling implies positive comments but it seems to me that these threads do not ever reach that level.
For someone bringing up reviews, I would give the guy with 125 reviews opinion more weight, versus your one lonely review of Latte Love. Even though he doesn't review MNE providers, I think he knows how this business goes given his experience in this hobby.
Btw.. weren't you very anti-MNE providers just a year ago? Now you are pro MNE? What gives??
...that's rich! I thought you said they made $4-5K/day!?!?
Paige called you out and even sent you the MN Statute laws to advise that you could be criminally prosecuted for emailing videos of escorts being filmed having sex.
And once again, you are trying to back-pedal after being criticized for sharing videos by saying I said MNE girls “made $4-5K/day.” Not only is that a flat out lie but it is a ridiculous statement.
The clients can argue all they want that the providers should be reasonable and continue to work under these conditions. But the evidence strongly suggests that they won't.
It may look like a candy store but calls are not returned, some of these stores are more virtual than real, the candy sits on the shelf and is not moved across the counter. Numerable threads such as Talon's Lament tell of this.
Ranger, the median wage is $22. Any woman smart enough to ply the entrepreneurial skills here is capable of staying far away from the $14 hour market. Average retail sales wage in Mpls is 25.31, average office administrative support is 22.23.
One can argue that providers just have to expect (reviews, bad reviews, TER's descriptors of their looks); actually they don't. And they aren't as all the posts about, "I can't hook up with a provider suggest."
A failing market is a sign of a dying business model. The increasing number of no-call-backs is evidence that seems to refute all the "well if the providers, agencies would just work as we want them to and as they should everything would be a candy store."
Let’s start with there are many wonderful providers out there and will also concede that there are many asshats as well as good clients out there also. Through the years have become friends with more then one and know what some have gone through. I feel for some of the BS they have to go through but also feel the business model of taking $100 of the first 180 is excessive. One apartment two rooms twelve hours available each room , 6 days a week 50 weeks a year. Think that leaves the agency about $360,000 per apartment . Have two weeks and some Sundays to pick up for cancellations or whatever . That covers a lot of rent and administration at your quoted rate. That leaves under $290,000 for the multiple girls to split without the upgrades. I just wonder why more have not left and gone on their own as they are being taken advantage of by the agency as much as they are being abused by client.
As for turnover it is physically and emotionally ( especially the escort level) that many do not need bad experiences to leave. Many also only needed X dollars for whatever the need .
I would still like to know the difference between a pimp and and an agency owner. Gray area or stark contrast? Hollywood has shown us that a pimp takes most of their money and controls most aspects of the workers' lives, beats the shit out of them, recruits them but doesn't necessarily do the scheduling, yeah, and wears a big fucking hat driving a caddy or a Lincoln. Taking 60% of the session and controlling the schedule of how many/what clients are seen seems a little pimp"ish" to me. Add in the established hours and set schedules, this looks like a revenue agent's wet dream actually. There's a whole lot of work comp, fica etc that's not been collected much less sales tax (this is a service afterall). There is nobody alive that could convince me that a service emailing out set appointment hours and working shifts a week in advance is anything but scheduled labor. There is zero argument here that the providers are not anything but employees of the agency, regardless of whatever contract/mattress lease the agency has come up with as a shield of protection.
As more people started discussing this a few months ago, MNE's advertised ladies definitely increased in number. I would speculate that MNE has seen (or takes part in) the conversation in here and has changed their strategy to incorporate some independents just to provide some cover.
Do not feel ME has changed their business plan. Almost since the beginning there have been independents who paid for advertising on the site . After ME was the Erotic Lineup that I feel was started by another agency but never completely took off. Why do the other adverts with a competitor- because the site works!!
To my recollection, it was rare to find an ad for a provider on ME that wasn't like tammykneads@, suziecreams@, [email protected] or even included a phone #. The photos were all taken in a very familiar style and from about the same distance away. I believe it was an advert site set up to promote one or a couple agencies. I would agree that the site is very effective though.
After you posted looked at page one of ME and at that point 7 of the 16 on page one were not part of the agency.
A bit ago today there were four and maybe a fifth that were not out of 16.
Nice extra income for the website . At the very least the others most likely covering the cost of the site . Where are you going to look for a release ——. LC , As, Tryst , or Eros. Andcoming back here to
check reviews ( those that have not have not found many unicorns) . When rapping the agency girls think about the sorting you must go through to find someone worth attempting to see. Now if those in charge would be a Fourth of July picnic.
I think defining the difference is difficult. I generally think of pimps as not just taking most of the money a provider brings in but also often being very controlling of the providers, possibly even using drugs and/or violence to enforce compliance. Can an agency owner behave like that? Absolutely. In which case that makes the owner a pimp even if he doesn't look like a stereotypical character out of the movies. But it is also possible for an agency owner to treat the providers pretty well and take a reasonable cut for the services they provider. Where's that boundary? It's a grey area. Where do the people behind the agencies that handle many of the MNE providers fit? Again, a grey area it seems to me. But I agree with OldRanger that I'm surprised more of those providers haven't gone independent.
It’s nice someone who has no problem exchanging videos of escorts having sex on camera suddenly cares to respect them. And are you really comparing streetwalkers controlled by pimps in Hollywood movies(and reality) from 30 years ago to MNE girls? This just continues to show your disregard for professional working ladies.
I’ve spoken to many of the successful MNE girls who are always fully booked and asked them about if they would go independent and make more money. A few have tried it and have said it makes more financial sense to pay a scheduler to rent the apartment, verify clients, schedule clients, and a lot of the other overhead that is involved. These girls have substantial disposable tax-free-incomes, create their own schedules, travel frequently, and yeah, drive nice new cars. I’m fairly certain that the girls in your Hollywood movies don’t even own a car and pretty much have everything they owned in their purse. But I guess if they smile or wink at the camera it’s okay, right?
The ONLY time I've taken a picture of a person in anything related to sex work was nearly 15 years ago when a gal asked me to take a photo of her in some new lingerie, posing on the bed and with HER phone for HER portfolio. Further, My cell phone doesn't even come into an appointment for some very good reasons. I've never solicited from anyone to send me their videos, pictures or any kind of imagery. I've never shared or forwarded a video, picture or any kind of imagery that hasn't been in the public domain already....EVER. I included the public domain part because I have shared a shit ton of fb memes, fishing pics and other random things thru text, email and social media but NEVER anything related to this hobby or sexwork in general. The way you distort facts to try and deflect from your own issues is truly amazing. It doesn't surprise me that you continually seek any opportunity you can to slander me in any new post on the board with more distortions getting more grand each time.
Unfortunately, your slander leaves me in a position that I have to respond and it's pretty clear that many on the board are quite tired of this back and forth bullshit. You've got a couple of cronies that like to pile on and that's about it. If you ever had any credibility, it has evaporated. Move on or take it to PM if you want to huff and puff and try to blow my house down.
You can claim that videos that you "may have seen" just showed up randomly in your inbox but everyone knows that is bullshit. I would bet that you film them yourself too. Can you just share what you saw in the videos and which providers smile or wink at the camera?
“I don't know to whom you are talking about taking vids and I won't mention any names but the one(s) that I may have seen certainly look like the providers were fully aware and approved of the filming.”
"When I see a provider smile or wink at the camera, I know she knows she's being recorded.”
I don't think you're getting the traction you had hoped for here Miggs. I shake my head at the effort you've expended to make sure you have zero credibility and seem to exist only to kick up dirt and shill for MNE. I'm guessing you've got a shitty life and it's just in your nature to bring all others down to your level. I just hope that the providers can figure out who you really are so they can avoid the risk of disease from all of your bbfs you appear to beg the gals for. It's prob pretty easy to pick young girls up off the street and manipulate them into doing what you want.
How's father's day for you, get a nice stack in the mailbox, lol??
As a of a man who pretends to defend his reputation, can you at least try and defend your statements talking about escorts who were filmed that “you may have seen” and those that “wink or smile at the camera not knowing they are filmed while being filmed on camera?” I would laugh if some girl caught you filming you and too vengeance!
-- Modified on 7/3/2022 1:42:10 AM
"Any recommendations for hot African-Americans... I am looking for not only non-college educated girls but girls without a high school diploma if possible.." posting from Miggs earlier this year.
Is it ok to go after high school girls and especially ones from minority backgrounds, who are more vulnerable? Is that ok?
Snafu called you out on this post and you have been trying to change the narrative ever since.
I view DR. Miggs as our philanthropist of the hobby. I'm sure that he was seeking these specific groups out, was to help them, not use them for some type of sexual gratification. His only want was to teach them the fundamentals of hobby, so they may move forward in a positive manor guided by his mentorship and financial resources, so someday they may prosper as MR Miggs has done in his search for equality.
Good day.
Dr Miggs, physician, philanthropist, successful entrepreneur and expert in many fields. Please tell us how you still have time to be on TER 24/7 with all the different job titles you hold. This guy was sending me DMs on July 4th. I hope you got to spend some time outside and enjoyed the weather.
It’s amazing that you think consensual uncovered sex is worse than trading videos escorts filmed having sex on camera and shared with others without their consent.
“I don't know to whom you are talking about taking vids and I won't mention any names but the one(s) that I may have seen certainly look like the providers were fully aware and approved of the filming.”
“I will tell you that I have never shared a video of my own or anyone else's related to anything in this hobby. When I see a provider smile or wink at the camera, I know she knows she's being recorded.”
Snafu929
-- Modified on 7/6/2022 11:48:04 PM
That you think this will get people to forget about your interest in black girls without high school diplomas.
Video was his vocabulary word for the month of June. He forgot the month ended.
The other thing is all threads lead to videos. See I can use it in a sentence too.
...and from what I see, it's a barren wasteland. The rent is cheap though. Let's recap so you can finally step off the crazy train:
1. As clearly stated at the time, I made a little extra cash working as a part time tutor in college (1985), mostly English but a little math and history. I did meet some nice gals doing this as well and as far as I knew, they had high school diplomas FWIW. $7/hour sitting in the student union. All very above board.
2. I don't recall the exact context of the original thread where the video "issue" began, but I said I had seen one or more videos sent to me. I have not shared those with anyone. I did not seek to or have any desire to share those with anyone. A gentleman was responding to my inquiry of his recent review of a lady I was interested in meeting and he sent me a private email with surprising content. Oh No, Shocker! A private email is now involved! Yes, I've had many questions answered and participated in conversations in private emails with both hobbyists and providers. Some have even had you as being the subject of conversation, lol. I won't bore you the details but I'll summarize that many people think of you as a virus. And if you read this carefully, you'll perhaps realize something else that I have said; I have never taken a pic/video of another person or myself engaged in any sexual activity of any kind. Two bears fucking in Northern Ontario? Yes, I recorded that...proudly! I've passed along memes with monkeys jerking off...oh my! I have pics of deer screwing on my trail cams and yes, I've shared some of those too.
So let those things sink in Miggs, try to spin this info how you must but I'll tell you the board is quire tired of this. Me? I can go all day!
You have proven you can go all day by first constantly replying to my posts trying to attack me. I’m just giving you a taste of your own medicine. Also, I find it repulsive that you exchange videos of people (and now animals) having sex without their consent.
The context of the original thread where the video issue came up was you were defending the act of filming escorts having sex and being shared with others. You can claim that videos that you "may have seen" just showed up randomly in your inbox but everyone knows that is bullshit. I would bet that you film them yourself too engaging with these girls. Can you just share what you saw in the videos and which providers smile or wink at the camera?
“I don't know to whom you are talking about taking vids and I won't mention any names but the one(s) that I may have seen certainly look like the providers were fully aware and approved of the filming.”
"When I see a provider smile or wink at the camera, I know she knows she's being recorded.”
Well, the number of new reviews popping up daily on average suggests business is pretty good. It's true there have been a lot of complaints about non-responsive providers but at this point I wonder if it would really seem that high if we factored out the complaints about a certain group or groups using MNErotica. Another factor is that with prices for rent, mortgages, food, gas, vehicles, and all sorts of thing high and getting higher, $25.31/hour doesn't go as far as it did. A lady getting $400/hour can match that seeing a little over one client every 3 days. Yes, I do know it is more complicated than just showing up for an hour. It's certainly not something I could ever deal with. If providers have had enough of it then of course they can choose to do something else. However, escorting has been around for a very long time so I think it will continue.
That being said, what do you think the model is changing to or you would like to see it change to and why? I really don't think reviews are going to go away as clients will always want to know more about whom they are desiring to see.
P.S. I can only assume Talon doesn't disclose his handle to escorts he is trying to see for obvious reasons.
The government probably should subsidize providers and give them covid emergency worker money for working in such close proximity with clients through the pandemic as they are just following the governments lead on having their tits out for every to suck on that wants.
Just seeking a little feedback. I am now retired (from working), and don’t hobby much at all anymore. I saw between 700 and 800 women over 25 years ( a pittance compared to many of you). It sure seems as though there are many factors involved in all of this.
1) Cities have really shut us down, right? Understanding and applauding efforts to contain trafficking, it still seems as though the industry has look largely disappeared. There’s no walk in anymore, and when I look at something like Listcrawler it sure looks like many fake ads. The ads often contain the same words and phrases (I.e. “shower sex with many positions). I just don’t know anymore. I sure miss the old days. I wish all of you current hobbyists nothing but the best!
Hguy I'm in the position you are, and have been around probably to long. Things seem to get more spending after the Superbowl, all star game, and other events. We had alot big money guys in town and the women followed and alot of locals jacked there prices.Then covid hit, now we have alot of 200 an hour girls wanting 500 and doing a horse shit job of taking care the client. Standard in this hobby has been for years a th is a roll in the hay an hour is 2 rolls you would always get a full hour. Now even the escorts are up selling you for a basic roll in the hay. That use to be the massage game, and some of these girls don't know how to give a by they got know skills. Part of it is our fault to many Johns overpay for substandard service that they dont realize. Anyway good luck gents play safe.
Just sayin' Keep at it Gentlemen.
One thing we all like is a wet woman, things just slide smoother.
That’s a good thing! 