When I first started this 'hobby' I would stay. But now have grown harden, by all the mis-representations. LEAVE, if she's not the one your expecting. Your time and $$$ is just as important as any else's.
Yes, I have fallen for ad that states '100 /1000% me or free'. Being an engineer, I like to think I'm pretty smart, but I'm an idiot for believing people words.If a gent shows up at a lady's for an appt. and she is not attractive to the gent, what's a gent to do? Let's assume the lady will not provide a photo or show her face prior to the appt.
It's the gent's hard earned money and it is the lady's time, so both stand to lose by not going forward. The lady has already lost since the time has already been committed and cannot be easily converted into revenue any longer. The gent will lose the opportunity to optimize his pleasure with a lady he finds completely attractive.
Secondarily, how does the gent avoid the bad reputation from a jilted lady within the community? I understand there is risk everywhere, and TER exists to mitigate that risk, but is it necessary for the gent to TOFTT?
I would not leave unless she obviously misrepresented herself. That's the chance I take when I agree to see someone purely on the basis of limited information or pictures available to me. A lot of time and energy is spent on me by the provider long before I actually see her, and as you mentioned, it's not very easy for her to make up that lost revenue if I just leave...
I had one time, with a visiting provider, when I was quite disappointed when she opened the door. She just wasn't what I was expecting. I can't really say she blatantly misrepresented herself, I just wasn't attracted to her. Fifteen minute later, I couldn't wait to get her on the bed. Though she wasn't physically my type, she was kind, funny, smart, and very sensual and VERY sexy, as it turned out. So I wouldn't be too quick in assuming you will lose the opportunity to optimize your pleasure.
btw...I've also had very disappointing sessions with highly attractive woman who turned out to not be very sexy at all
If she hasn't blatantly misrepresented herself, it was your choice to take a chance. I to have had the door open and thought, 'she isn't what I expected and isn't that attractive'. But I made the choice to visit with the information I had and most of the time it turns out pretty well.
And ladies, don't get offended by the comparison, (some of you know how I love my food) but it's like going to a restaurant and ordering something from the menu. When it show's up at the table and isn't what I expected and really didn't care for it, I don't ask for my money back. It was my choice to try something new.
I agree with MM811 wholeheartedly... you just don't know where the diamond in the rough is..or the 'stinker' who just didn't make it worthwhile for you either..but in both cases, we can learn and hopefully touch others in a positive way. One last comment, I'm sure many of you have seen providers who have "improved" from their first visit. I know I have..sometimes there's a learning curve, theirs and ours.
I had one time, with a visiting provider, when I was quite disappointed when she opened the door. She just wasn't what I was expecting. I can't really say she blatantly misrepresented herself, I just wasn't attracted to her. Fifteen minute later, I couldn't wait to get her on the bed. Though she wasn't physically my type, she was kind, funny, smart, and very sensual and VERY sexy, as it turned out. So I wouldn't be too quick in assuming you will lose the opportunity to optimize your pleasure.
btw...I've also had very disappointing sessions with highly attractive woman who turned out to not be very sexy at all.
...how often a provider opens the door and didn't want to allow our ugly mugs to enter? Lol! Thank god they seem to be much more tolerant than most of the guys!
That's a big difference IMO. Do not be under the allusion that any of this would exist without the money.
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 10:56:36 AM
Damn, I'm so disillusioned... And all this time I thought they've been letting me in because of my bad boy looks, dry sense of humor, and quick wit...
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 12:30:35 PM
NEVER! Ha ha
ooks are the first impression and SEXY is more than looks. Many a time the pretty one's, the "good looking" ones can be the ugliest so easily because they've been sadly shaped by too much praise based on their looks that they turn rotten inside. Certainly, there are those that are beautiful on the inside and out (you for one dear Trin), and since this is life on earth we get to see and experience everything and in this hobby even moreso as we expose ourselves as we play and play more!
How many times at first glance I am not bedazzled but then comes the scent, the smell, the voice, the mind, the motion, the tenor of the person and I am in love. I am not here to be bedazzled nor to bedazzle everyone.... I am here to discover our sexy and most of the time I do find it! & most of the time this is mutual. Also, for most of us, in part, a choice, a bend to our thoughts and feelings as life is a stage, this is the theatre of life. We write our script as we go and may it be damned sexy as that is what we are here for!
And, yet, sometimes we just cant no matter how hard we try, right?! So, that is just one of those moments and so it goes.
Elan you didn't look at the books cover and tell me to get out. We would never have the wonderful relationship we have now.
Heheheheee
Thank you, Elan.
You mean that has never happened to you? Happens to me all the time.
I totally concur and I like the food analogy. It's incredibly insulting to tell a woman "you're not attractive so I'm leaving". How would it go over if some woman said "well your dick is a little smaller than I usually see and you're a fat ass but what the hell you're here so lets get this over with." I realize they are in the service business and we are paying so it's not exactly the same thing but for goodness sake I'd rather burn the $$$ then look another person in the face and crush their feelings. I'm a dude, I'm sure I'll still get it up. Fine I'm a magina or whatever its called, I've been called worse.
Why is the instinct to be mean and say "you are not attractive"? Why is their no instinct for decency and
kindness? No gal wants to be on the receiving end of a sympathy fuck. No gal wants you to go through the motions if your heart is not in it. We can tell when something is not right in your mind about what is happening.
How about saying......."I changed my mind", "my mind is on other things", "I am having second thoughts"
These are truthful but not disparaging remarks
I'm assuming your responding directly to my comments so let me clarify. My point was I would never say "your not attractive" or "you're not as attractive as what I was expecting based on your reviews and my attempts to judge your features by viewing your blurred photos". If that was the case I would still complete the session not as a "sympathy fuck" but because although she's not exactly what I thought it doesn't mean it's not money and time well spent. It is after all probably going to be great sex. It's not like I'm blacktopping a roof in 100 degree heat, it's still very enjoyable.
Your suggestion that one say "I've changed my mind" when she opens the door seems harsh and I have no doubt she would know exactly what a man meant by that. Sure it's not the same as "your not attractive", but the meaning is clear. The providers I have meet strike me as fairly savvy in these matters and aren't quick to fall for an excuse like that. Plus who knows how much time and effort she took to get ready and arrive at her place.
Regardless I enjoy hearing your thoughts. Different perspectives different outlooks.
My main point was that one doesn't have to say mean things and belittle. There is a way to be honest and not hurt the other persons feelings...to be fair, even handed and just.
It is nice to have a discussion without attacking. You make me think, reconsider and reevaluate and that is sexy and good!!!!
Muah, Belinda
Want to fuck?
Sorry I couldn't resist.
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 2:04:04 PM
The OP said, "Let's assume the lady will not provide a photo or show her face prior to the appt." So now it's up to the hobbyist to decide if it's worth the risk to see the provider w/o seeing a photo first. Once that decision's been made, and assuming there's been no misrepresentation (verbally for example) by the provider re looks, it's only fair that the hobbyist follow through with the appointment and try to make the best of it.
This might be a case where the hobbyist would choose not do a review... again assuming there's been no misrepresentation by the provider. Or if he writes a review, be accurate w/o being cruel about it. (Deja vu all over again.....)
But as you said so well.... a book shouldn't be judged by its cover. For me, a woman's sexiest organ is her mind, and what's in her mind and heart is a lot more important to me than outward appearances. That being said, I've never been disappointed by a provider's looks (but I've always seen a photo first, if not of her face at least the rest of her).
I suppose that you could leave the money and leave.
Alternatively, you could go ahead and perhaps learn that beauty is much deeper than skin deep.
When I first started this 'hobby' I would stay. But now have grown harden, by all the mis-representations. LEAVE, if she's not the one your expecting. Your time and $$$ is just as important as any else's.
Yes, I have fallen for ad that states '100 /1000% me or free'. Being an engineer, I like to think I'm pretty smart, but I'm an idiot for believing people words.
If you are not enjoying it, she will be able to tell and could possibly effect her performance.
IMO, most ladies would not want to risk getting a crappy review in this situation. Be nice
about it and leave $50-100 for her time (and if she is working out of a hotel, offer to cover
the cost of the hotel or portion of it). This way, you do not have to go through the motions
and the lady at least is able to covers her expenses. If this should happen, and you do not
actually go through the appt, do not write a review.
Great question!!
Belinda
IMO, most ladies would not want to risk getting a crappy review in this situation. Be nice
about it and leave $50-100 for her time (and if she is working out of a hotel, offer to cover
the cost of the hotel or portion of it). This way, you do not have to go through the motions
and the lady at least is able to covers her expenses. If this should happen, and you do not
actually go through the appt, do not write a review.
Great question!!
Belinda
How about the time I drove 1+ hours to get to a particular hotel, then she tells me, sorry I can't see you. With your logic, I should be expecting $50-$100 for my time.
If a lady told you to get out and you drove to her and wasted time, you did actually see her so you can post a review and she would lose a lot of business. I would be pissed if it happened to me. I would not blame you one bit!!!!
And, I do know ladies who have turned clients away for a number of reasons and have offered to pay their gas, etc. So, yes, it does indeed happen, albeit rarely.
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 12:34:58 PM
This is a highly "visual" business. If the lady chose to not even show a body picture then some of the responsibility should/could be hers. All businesses have some risk.
Were there any descriptions that were highly subjective? Did she say "you won't be sorry" or "I'm very pretty?" It all should factor in IMO.
I've also only left an appt. if the pics were unrepresentative.
You are already there, so you might as well get your nuts emptied before heading out, then just take good notes on her so you dont get sucked in again the next time she switches up the fake pics in her ad...
Stick with well reviewed TER women and utilize TER for what they are here for.
On a non-reviewed Backpage gal that is the deal: risk! With a more than likely outcome of a disasterous look and what would be least likely is a very sexy red hot woman! But some men take these risks for fun and pay to play and are looking for their own brand new gem that is not tried and true yet.
This is my advice. What think you?
By the way JChan, you're cute.
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 12:20:55 PM
What came first, an initial review or a well reviewed lady? We all know the answer! What is TER here for? The sharing of information. New reviews tell much more than review number 100!
Stick with well reviewed TER women and utilize TER for what they are here for.
On a non-reviewed Backpage gal that is the deal: risk! With a more than likely outcome of a disasterous look and what would be least likely is a very sexy red hot woman! But some men take these risks for fun and pay to play and are looking for their own brand new gem that is not tried and true yet.
This is my advice. What think you?
By the way JChan, you're cute.
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 12:20:55 PM
..& I am grateful for the gem hunters. I also advise that those who are highly adverse to being disappointed to utilize the benefit of TER and the well reviewed gals.
Yup, that's me, a modern Daniel Boone paving the way for those that follow in my tracks
....& I am grateful for the gem hunters. I also advise that those who are highly adverse to being disappointed to utilize the benefit of TER and the well reviewed gals.
Nice post Omega, got me all choked up and I'm not being a smart ass!
I wonder what you look like naked
Would you still give the same advice if you weren't reviewed yet? There was a day someone needed to TOFTT on you as well.
..... a need to TOFTT, that is. Take a look at her first review, and you'll see a great example of how a first review should be handled.
Are you sucking up,.....let me rephrase that....Are you practicing marketing or have you ever met me? If you have, thank you. I do not get that often unless you are a gay man. They, for some reason, have always found it necessary to hit on me.
This has turned out to be a very enjoyable and FRIENDLY post lol. Keep it up everybody and thanks for sharing your words of wisdom, humor, contrary points of view, and so on. Almost like a greatest hits...
if her body is represented correctly in her photos then I would say go head. What 1 person find attractive is different then let another 1 find attractive and some of us just don't feel comfortable with our face out on the net.
gentleman please consider what you are telling the woman. we have all had it happen and there is a big difference between a blurred photo (or no photo) and being clearly misled.
the most important thing is consider that you are talking to a human with feelings. This lady is not selling time shares, she is offering herself.
If you arrived by your choice and were not grossly lied to, follow through like you committed to. She has gone to some trouble to be available and ready to see you. The alternative is so cruel I can not even imagine doing that to any person. You will have stated plainly that "you are not good enough". Not poor performance which she has control of but "you" are too ugly, something she can not control.
You are not going to have children with this lady so why would anyone with warm blood in there veins do something so unconscionably mean. You are there at your request and you have made a promise. If she is unattractive TURN THE LIGHT OFF and tell her she is beautiful. What difference does it make, you are gone in an hour and you have an inalienable rite to never come back.
Physical violence is only a small step worse than crushing a person emotionally. Do your home work, if you are unimpressed DO NOT HURT ANYONE needlessly. If you do I hope she would tell everyone who you are so that I can hate you too.
the most important thing is consider that you are talking to a human with feelings. This lady is not selling time shares, she is offering herself.
If you arrived by your choice and were not grossly lied to, follow through like you committed to. She has gone to some trouble to be available and ready to see you. The alternative is so cruel I can not even imagine doing that to any person. You will have stated plainly that "you are not good enough". Not poor performance which she has control of but "you" are too ugly, something she can not control.
You are not going to have children with this lady so why would anyone with warm blood in there veins do something so unconscionably mean. You are there at your request and you have made a promise. If she is unattractive TURN THE LIGHT OFF and tell her she is beautiful. What difference does it make, you are gone in an hour and you have an inalienable rite to never come back.
Physical violence is only a small step worse than crushing a person emotionally. Do your home work, if you are unimpressed DO NOT HURT ANYONE needlessly. If you do I hope she would tell everyone who you are so that I can hate you too.
The providers who "give a crap about our 'feelings'" are out there - you just need to seek that kind of provider.... if that's really what you WANT in a provider.
it is not a fantasy island it is just a fantasy date.
The fantasy is the belief that she would ever be interested in us. these ladies will let you believe that they want to be with you. She will welcome you to her home or temporary home, offer you wine, allow you to touch her, kiss her and undress her. You get to be her lover for an hour, and if you behave like a gentleman she will let you come back and play out the fantasy again.
if you are having trouble finding a lady that wants to be with you consider moving up to the three digit price category and read the reviews. If that does not fix the problem then the problem is not her...
I have met my share of duds and like I said I have an unalienable rite to review honestly and to choose to not go back.
On the other side I have been with Trinity and Elan, I have seen Casey, Victoria, and Shawnee and others who I will cherish and never forget. When I met Carmen I had to sit in my car and wait for my eyes to roll back into the front of my head before driving. If this not your experience take a good look at how you treat a woman who will give you the gift of her touch.
I am not speaking to anyone directly so put you knives away. Guys this is not hard; be kind and treat her like a lady.
the most important thing is consider that you are talking to a human with feelings. This lady is not selling time shares, she is offering herself.
If you arrived by your choice and were not grossly lied to, follow through like you committed to. She has gone to some trouble to be available and ready to see you. The alternative is so cruel I can not even imagine doing that to any person. You will have stated plainly that "you are not good enough". Not poor performance which she has control of but "you" are too ugly, something she can not control.
You are not going to have children with this lady so why would anyone with warm blood in there veins do something so unconscionably mean. You are there at your request and you have made a promise. If she is unattractive TURN THE LIGHT OFF and tell her she is beautiful. What difference does it make, you are gone in an hour and you have an inalienable rite to never come back.
Physical violence is only a small step worse than crushing a person emotionally. Do your home work, if you are unimpressed DO NOT HURT ANYONE needlessly. If you do I hope she would tell everyone who you are so that I can hate you too.
When you really think about it, this one post, this one question, is THE question. It cuts right to the heart of the most hotly debated topic in all of hobbying, the topic that hurts more feelings and drives a greater wedge between the "teams" than all others combined.
And that is... What is this? What are we paying for? What do we as hobbyists deserve? What do you as providers deserve.
This is a unique business... It is on one hand a business and in some ways there is a cold, harsh reality to the free market. On the other hand it is deeply personal, so personal that we can't really compare it to any product or service. As with so many aspects of life where there is tension, neither side is unjustified.
At these kinds of prices, a hobbyist has every right to expect that a meeting will be absolutely amazing. From appearance, to demeanor, to services, if you are going to charge me these kind of dollars, then through your pricing, you have chosen to set the bar for yourself very high. I would call this expectation the customer-centric view, and it is absolutely fair, I am absolutely justified in feeling that way.
And yet, we are talking about real people with real feelings, and what some of us (like me) ache for even more than selfish pleasure, is to be "let in"... I want a provider to really show her true self, share some deep secrets of her own sexuality, and let me bask in her particular brand of feminine eroticism. I don't just want amazing service, I want to experience you and feel who you are in the way you touch me. You have every right to expect guys to be a little forgiving about everything not being exactly perfect, because what he is seeking is a human experience, not a perfect experience. I call this the provider-centric view, and it is absolutely fair, they are absolutely justified in feeling that way.
And so the battle lines are drawn. At these prices, I should be able to expect damn near perfection, AND no matter the price, a gal should be respected, cherished, and enjoyed "just because"... for no other reason than she has her own innate dignity that is in no way diminished by being a paid provider.
The whole story of our TER discussion community, since the beginning, has been the same... Every week a guy posts some variation on "I am not getting treated right for the amount of money I am paying" and often, because he's not careful or eloquent, he gets the shit beat out of him as a misogynistic woman hater--"a jackwad douche canoe" LOL. Every week a woman posts some variation on "what the hell do you guys expect from me, I am a person, and I have feelings, and I have good days and bad." And often, because she's not careful or eloquent, she just gets the shit beat out of her as a man hater. Rarely is the shit-beating deserved, it is usually a matter of your personal standing on the board, the mood of the board, and how carefully you chose your words to be benignly politically correct, so much so that you didn't even really get your point across.
And yet, in both cases, people are just asking for what they do, indeed, deserve, and somehow, we have to find a way to meet in the middle. Hobbyists deserve amazing, and providers deserve to be revered and cherished as-is.
So, after all the philosophical rant, where does that leave us?
I think if when you get there, it's such a let down that you really can't go through with it, that's fair.
a. If you feel like you have been scammed and there has been misrepresentation, then by all means, "adios!" You have every right to not have to have sex with someone you don't want to, that goes for both sides and it's non-negotiable. If the pics are fake, or there's a switch, or if she has a really big dick and you didn't know that, then feel free to scram.
b. If there hasn't been any misrepresentation, and it's just not your thing, and you just can't do it... Then be fair, be kind... "Crap, I just got paged back to work" is a whole lot nicer than "dayum you ugly." And leaving a tip is a whole lot nicer than just bolting. If she picked up a room just to meet you, or traveled to you, then she surely deserves that... Again, assuming that nothing's been misrepresented.
For myself, I have found that some of my very best meetings have been with very average looking gals. In my whole time in the hobby there's only been a few, maybe 3-5 "man, I just so wish I had my money back, that turned out to be a waste of time" meetings, and they were all with women that to me were visually hotties.
So I try to think of it in a provider-like way. Some of these gals, you go see them, and you're short, or fat, or bald, or whatever... (I am sadly all of those). And this woman opens the door, and seeing a guy that she is not attracted to, even in the least, she still invites you in, gives you a kiss, and you talk for a bit... And she looks for things in you... your voice, your mannerisms, your views, your sense of humor, whatever... She finds things about you that are appealing, are virtuous, and she latches on to those things... focuses on them, and uses them as a springboard to connect with you on a real level, and then just rock your world.
I have always found that to be the case for me as well. If I am not super-jazzed by what I see, I find that over the time I am there I end up finding things about that person that are very appealing anyway. And by the time I leave, that woman is actually very attractive to me physically. And it is not simply because I got lucky, it's so much more than that.
So for me, if there's no misrepresentation, I have always gone ahead, and I have never, ever been disappointed in doing so. Not once.
All I ask is that people remember... SHE is a human being and has an innate dignity just by virtue of her own existence, and neither being butt ugly, or being a provider, diminishes that in any way. HE is a human being and is a customer, he deserves to be respected for the fact that he is exchanging the fruits of his labor in return for something he needs to fulfill himself. Just because he has a penis, and money, doesn't make him deserve any less than any customer of any service. If we could all just agree on that, as a minimum baseline, so many of the squabbles would just go away, and the bickering that practically defines these forums would be obviated.
Holy crap I could use an oily handjob after all that.
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 3:13:00 PM
Very very well said in my humble opinion.
Wish I could type that much without getting horny thinking about all the wonderful ladies in Minnesota...
TER ought to put a link to this and make it required reading..homework to follow..
Providers - provide a great session.!
Hobbyists - enjoy a great session together and write a fabulous review.
Both repeat..again and again = WIN WIN!
And that is... What is this? What are we paying for? What do we as hobbyists deserve? What do you as providers deserve.
This is a unique business... It is on one hand a business and in some ways there is a cold, harsh reality to the free market. On the other hand it is deeply personal, so personal that we can't really compare it to any product or service. As with so many aspects of life where there is tension, neither side is unjustified.
At these kinds of prices, a hobbyist has every right to expect that a meeting will be absolutely amazing. From appearance, to demeanor, to services, if you are going to charge me these kind of dollars, then through your pricing, you have chosen to set the bar for yourself very high. I would call this expectation the customer-centric view, and it is absolutely fair, I am absolutely justified in feeling that way.
And yet, we are talking about real people with real feelings, and what some of us (like me) ache for even more than selfish pleasure, is to be "let in"... I want a provider to really show her true self, share some deep secrets of her own sexuality, and let me bask in her particular brand of feminine eroticism. I don't just want amazing service, I want to experience you and feel who you are in the way you touch me. You have every right to expect guys to be a little forgiving about everything not being exactly perfect, because what he is seeking is a human experience, not a perfect experience. I call this the provider-centric view, and it is absolutely fair, they are absolutely justified in feeling that way.
And so the battle lines are drawn. At these prices, I should be able to expect damn near perfection, AND no matter the price, a gal should be respected, cherished, and enjoyed "just because"... for no other reason than she has her own innate dignity that is in no way diminished by being a paid provider.
The whole story of our TER discussion community, since the beginning, has been the same... Every week a guy posts some variation on "I am not getting treated right for the amount of money I am paying" and often, because he's not careful or eloquent, he gets the shit beat out of him as a misogynistic woman hater--"a jackwad douche canoe" LOL. Every week a woman posts some variation on "what the hell do you guys expect from me, I am a person, and I have feelings, and I have good days and bad." And often, because she's not careful or eloquent, she just gets the shit beat out of her as a man hater. Rarely is the shit-beating deserved, it is usually a matter of your personal standing on the board, the mood of the board, and how carefully you chose your words to be benignly politically correct, so much so that you didn't even really get your point across.
And yet, in both cases, people are just asking for what they do, indeed, deserve, and somehow, we have to find a way to meet in the middle. Hobbyists deserve amazing, and providers deserve to be revered and cherished as-is.
So, after all the philosophical rant, where does that leave us?
I think if when you get there, it's such a let down that you really can't go through with it, that's fair.
a. If you feel like you have been scammed and there has been misrepresentation, then by all means, "adios!" You have every right to not have to have sex with someone you don't want to, that goes for both sides and it's non-negotiable. If the pics are fake, or there's a switch, or if she has a really big dick and you didn't know that, then feel free to scram.
b. If there hasn't been any misrepresentation, and it's just not your thing, and you just can't do it... Then be fair, be kind... "Crap, I just got paged back to work" is a whole lot nicer than "dayum you ugly." And leaving a tip is a whole lot nicer than just bolting. If she picked up a room just to meet you, or traveled to you, then she surely deserves that... Again, assuming that nothing's been misrepresented.
For myself, I have found that some of my very best meetings have been with very average looking gals. In my whole time in the hobby there's only been a few, maybe 3-5 "man, I just so wish I had my money back, that turned out to be a waste of time" meetings, and they were all with women that to me were visually hotties.
So I try to think of it in a provider-like way. Some of these gals, you go see them, and you're short, or fat, or bald, or whatever... (I am sadly all of those). And this woman opens the door, and seeing a guy that she is not attracted to, even in the least, she still invites you in, gives you a kiss, and you talk for a bit... And she looks for things in you... your voice, your mannerisms, your views, your sense of humor, whatever... She finds things about you that are appealing, are virtuous, and she latches on to those things... focuses on them, and uses them as a springboard to connect with you on a real level, and then just rock your world.
I have always found that to be the case for me as well. If I am not super-jazzed by what I see, I find that over the time I am there I end up finding things about that person that are very appealing anyway. And by the time I leave, that woman is actually very attractive to me physically. And it is not simply because I got lucky, it's so much more than that.
So for me, if there's no misrepresentation, I have always gone ahead, and I have never, ever been disappointed in doing so. Not once.
All I ask is that people remember... SHE is a human being and has an innate dignity just by virtue of her own existence, and neither being butt ugly, or being a provider, diminishes that in any way. HE is a human being and is a customer, he deserves to be respected for the fact that he is exchanging the fruits of his labor in return for something he needs to fulfill himself. Just because he has a penis, and money, doesn't make him deserve any less than any customer of any service. If we could all just agree on that, as a minimum baseline, so many of the squabbles would just go away, and the bickering that practically defines these forums would be obviated.
Holy crap I could use an oily handjob after all that.
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 3:13:00 PM
And that is... What is this? What are we paying for? What do we as hobbyists deserve? What do you as providers deserve.
This is a unique business... It is on one hand a business and in some ways there is a cold, harsh reality to the free market. On the other hand it is deeply personal, so personal that we can't really compare it to any product or service. As with so many aspects of life where there is tension, neither side is unjustified.
At these kinds of prices, a hobbyist has every right to expect that a meeting will be absolutely amazing. From appearance, to demeanor, to services, if you are going to charge me these kind of dollars, then through your pricing, you have chosen to set the bar for yourself very high. I would call this expectation the customer-centric view, and it is absolutely fair, I am absolutely justified in feeling that way.
And yet, we are talking about real people with real feelings, and what some of us (like me) ache for even more than selfish pleasure, is to be "let in"... I want a provider to really show her true self, share some deep secrets of her own sexuality, and let me bask in her particular brand of feminine eroticism. I don't just want amazing service, I want to experience you and feel who you are in the way you touch me. You have every right to expect guys to be a little forgiving about everything not being exactly perfect, because what he is seeking is a human experience, not a perfect experience. I call this the provider-centric view, and it is absolutely fair, they are absolutely justified in feeling that way.
And so the battle lines are drawn. At these prices, I should be able to expect damn near perfection, AND no matter the price, a gal should be respected, cherished, and enjoyed "just because"... for no other reason than she has her own innate dignity that is in no way diminished by being a paid provider.
The whole story of our TER discussion community, since the beginning, has been the same... Every week a guy posts some variation on "I am not getting treated right for the amount of money I am paying" and often, because he's not careful or eloquent, he gets the shit beat out of him as a misogynistic woman hater--"a jackwad douche canoe" LOL. Every week a woman posts some variation on "what the hell do you guys expect from me, I am a person, and I have feelings, and I have good days and bad." And often, because she's not careful or eloquent, she just gets the shit beat out of her as a man hater. Rarely is the shit-beating deserved, it is usually a matter of your personal standing on the board, the mood of the board, and how carefully you chose your words to be benignly politically correct, so much so that you didn't even really get your point across.
And yet, in both cases, people are just asking for what they do, indeed, deserve, and somehow, we have to find a way to meet in the middle. Hobbyists deserve amazing, and providers deserve to be revered and cherished as-is.
So, after all the philosophical rant, where does that leave us?
I think if when you get there, it's such a let down that you really can't go through with it, that's fair.
a. If you feel like you have been scammed and there has been misrepresentation, then by all means, "adios!" You have every right to not have to have sex with someone you don't want to, that goes for both sides and it's non-negotiable. If the pics are fake, or there's a switch, or if she has a really big dick and you didn't know that, then feel free to scram.
b. If there hasn't been any misrepresentation, and it's just not your thing, and you just can't do it... Then be fair, be kind... "Crap, I just got paged back to work" is a whole lot nicer than "dayum you ugly." And leaving a tip is a whole lot nicer than just bolting. If she picked up a room just to meet you, or traveled to you, then she surely deserves that... Again, assuming that nothing's been misrepresented.
For myself, I have found that some of my very best meetings have been with very average looking gals. In my whole time in the hobby there's only been a few, maybe 3-5 "man, I just so wish I had my money back, that turned out to be a waste of time" meetings, and they were all with women that to me were visually hotties.
So I try to think of it in a provider-like way. Some of these gals, you go see them, and you're short, or fat, or bald, or whatever... (I am sadly all of those). And this woman opens the door, and seeing a guy that she is not attracted to, even in the least, she still invites you in, gives you a kiss, and you talk for a bit... And she looks for things in you... your voice, your mannerisms, your views, your sense of humor, whatever... She finds things about you that are appealing, are virtuous, and she latches on to those things... focuses on them, and uses them as a springboard to connect with you on a real level, and then just rock your world.
I have always found that to be the case for me as well. If I am not super-jazzed by what I see, I find that over the time I am there I end up finding things about that person that are very appealing anyway. And by the time I leave, that woman is actually very attractive to me physically. And it is not simply because I got lucky, it's so much more than that.
So for me, if there's no misrepresentation, I have always gone ahead, and I have never, ever been disappointed in doing so. Not once.
All I ask is that people remember... SHE is a human being and has an innate dignity just by virtue of her own existence, and neither being butt ugly, or being a provider, diminishes that in any way. HE is a human being and is a customer, he deserves to be respected for the fact that he is exchanging the fruits of his labor in return for something he needs to fulfill himself. Just because he has a penis, and money, doesn't make him deserve any less than any customer of any service. If we could all just agree on that, as a minimum baseline, so many of the squabbles would just go away, and the bickering that practically defines these forums would be obviated.
Holy crap I could use an oily handjob after all that.
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 3:13:00 PM
That was so damn well written and that I must say, even with my staunch record of heterosexuality, I'd give you an oily handjob. Of course I'll need two recent references.
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 3:33:29 PM
And that is... What is this? What are we paying for? What do we as hobbyists deserve? What do you as providers deserve.
This is a unique business... It is on one hand a business and in some ways there is a cold, harsh reality to the free market. On the other hand it is deeply personal, so personal that we can't really compare it to any product or service. As with so many aspects of life where there is tension, neither side is unjustified.
At these kinds of prices, a hobbyist has every right to expect that a meeting will be absolutely amazing. From appearance, to demeanor, to services, if you are going to charge me these kind of dollars, then through your pricing, you have chosen to set the bar for yourself very high. I would call this expectation the customer-centric view, and it is absolutely fair, I am absolutely justified in feeling that way.
And yet, we are talking about real people with real feelings, and what some of us (like me) ache for even more than selfish pleasure, is to be "let in"... I want a provider to really show her true self, share some deep secrets of her own sexuality, and let me bask in her particular brand of feminine eroticism. I don't just want amazing service, I want to experience you and feel who you are in the way you touch me. You have every right to expect guys to be a little forgiving about everything not being exactly perfect, because what he is seeking is a human experience, not a perfect experience. I call this the provider-centric view, and it is absolutely fair, they are absolutely justified in feeling that way.
And so the battle lines are drawn. At these prices, I should be able to expect damn near perfection, AND no matter the price, a gal should be respected, cherished, and enjoyed "just because"... for no other reason than she has her own innate dignity that is in no way diminished by being a paid provider.
The whole story of our TER discussion community, since the beginning, has been the same... Every week a guy posts some variation on "I am not getting treated right for the amount of money I am paying" and often, because he's not careful or eloquent, he gets the shit beat out of him as a misogynistic woman hater--"a jackwad douche canoe" LOL. Every week a woman posts some variation on "what the hell do you guys expect from me, I am a person, and I have feelings, and I have good days and bad." And often, because she's not careful or eloquent, she just gets the shit beat out of her as a man hater. Rarely is the shit-beating deserved, it is usually a matter of your personal standing on the board, the mood of the board, and how carefully you chose your words to be benignly politically correct, so much so that you didn't even really get your point across.
And yet, in both cases, people are just asking for what they do, indeed, deserve, and somehow, we have to find a way to meet in the middle. Hobbyists deserve amazing, and providers deserve to be revered and cherished as-is.
So, after all the philosophical rant, where does that leave us?
I think if when you get there, it's such a let down that you really can't go through with it, that's fair.
a. If you feel like you have been scammed and there has been misrepresentation, then by all means, "adios!" You have every right to not have to have sex with someone you don't want to, that goes for both sides and it's non-negotiable. If the pics are fake, or there's a switch, or if she has a really big dick and you didn't know that, then feel free to scram.
b. If there hasn't been any misrepresentation, and it's just not your thing, and you just can't do it... Then be fair, be kind... "Crap, I just got paged back to work" is a whole lot nicer than "dayum you ugly." And leaving a tip is a whole lot nicer than just bolting. If she picked up a room just to meet you, or traveled to you, then she surely deserves that... Again, assuming that nothing's been misrepresented.
For myself, I have found that some of my very best meetings have been with very average looking gals. In my whole time in the hobby there's only been a few, maybe 3-5 "man, I just so wish I had my money back, that turned out to be a waste of time" meetings, and they were all with women that to me were visually hotties.
So I try to think of it in a provider-like way. Some of these gals, you go see them, and you're short, or fat, or bald, or whatever... (I am sadly all of those). And this woman opens the door, and seeing a guy that she is not attracted to, even in the least, she still invites you in, gives you a kiss, and you talk for a bit... And she looks for things in you... your voice, your mannerisms, your views, your sense of humor, whatever... She finds things about you that are appealing, are virtuous, and she latches on to those things... focuses on them, and uses them as a springboard to connect with you on a real level, and then just rock your world.
I have always found that to be the case for me as well. If I am not super-jazzed by what I see, I find that over the time I am there I end up finding things about that person that are very appealing anyway. And by the time I leave, that woman is actually very attractive to me physically. And it is not simply because I got lucky, it's so much more than that.
So for me, if there's no misrepresentation, I have always gone ahead, and I have never, ever been disappointed in doing so. Not once.
All I ask is that people remember... SHE is a human being and has an innate dignity just by virtue of her own existence, and neither being butt ugly, or being a provider, diminishes that in any way. HE is a human being and is a customer, he deserves to be respected for the fact that he is exchanging the fruits of his labor in return for something he needs to fulfill himself. Just because he has a penis, and money, doesn't make him deserve any less than any customer of any service. If we could all just agree on that, as a minimum baseline, so many of the squabbles would just go away, and the bickering that practically defines these forums would be obviated.
Holy crap I could use an oily handjob after all that.
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 3:13:00 PM
I see a lot of evidence that is the case.... within the hobby, and outside the hobby. Everyone is seeking The Big 10 (no, not that Big 10 and it's 12 and soon 14 teams so it's not really the Big 10 anymore and.... sorry, got off track there).
But what is a "10"? And is perfection all it's cracked up to be?
I don't want perfection in a provider. First, I don't think it's achievable. No one's perfect.... I'm certainly not, in so many ways. Maybe I don't want perfection in a provider because I, as an imperfect person, would have trouble relating to a perfect woman. And I think it's our imperfections that make each of us the unique person that we are. Without our imperfections, the hobby and life in general would be pretty boring.
A few examples from my hobby experience:
* I know a provider who I think has the most interesting face. I think it's a beautiful face, with bright, intelligent eyes and an alluring smile. But not a flawless face. Not the kind of face some hobbyists seek, based on reviews I've seen. It's a face that shows depth, character, wisdom, compassion; it reflects a rich, full life, a life that's seen hills and valleys. I love that face.
* I know another provider who's considered "old" by the standards of many hobbyists, and in fact has been knocked in some reviews for her appearance. She's in her mid (maybe late?) 40s. I think she has an incredible body for a woman of that age.... a body some women in their 20s would kill for. A perfect body? No. But a strong, firm body, with lovely breasts, a beautifully sculpted butt, a flat stomach. Then there's her face. It has some wrinkles! OMG, wrinkles on a mid/late-40s woman, can you imagine that! She got knocked in a few reviews for that, with at least one guy saying he tried not to look at her during the session, tried to think of someone else, wished he could make a quick exit. But this woman was sooo much fun, so full of energy - and mischief! She didn't seem "old" to me at all. It was all I could do to keep up with her.
* Finally, there's a provider who's got more erotic energy than anyone I know. She also has a radiant face, great hair, and a strong, healthy body. She's no waif, no spinner, but she exudes life and love and sensuality with her entire being. Some of her clients, including me, think she's physically wunderbar. Others..... well, based on their reviews, not so much. I wouldn't change a thing.
Yeah.... perfection ain't all it's cracked up to be.
Perfect!! I could not agree more.
For my part, unless I believed she had misrepresented herself, I would go through with the appointment.
I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt and act as though she is worthy of being treated with respect until she shows me she isn't.
-- Modified on 2/11/2014 10:49:49 PM
There is no correct answer. Thanks for the feedback. This was hypothetical. I did not test on, nor we're any providers hurt during the testing of this question.
I posted about this before, but yes, this situation has happened to me before. No, my pictures are not misrepresented (at least not more so than anyone else's pictures are-- pictures are never "reality" but I would never purposefully make myself look much different.)
Anyway, yes. When this happened to me, the guy walked in, stared at me for about five seconds, said something like "no thanks" really loudly and rudely, then stormed out, slamming the door behind him. And yes, I cried for a little while
(I do not have a thick skin, though I know you really need to have one for this business. I am a sensitive person who feels things deeply and cries easily, and I hate it, but there's nothing I can do about it).
The whole incident was a waste of my time, incall cost, and of course, it hurt my feelings. But I try not to dwell on a single bad apple, and I do believe it was more his own problem than anything to do with me or my appearance. 50+ positive reviews will attest to the guy being one of the following:
a. gay
b. crazy
c. a jerk
d. a cop who thought I was just so cute he couldn't arrest me and ran away.
(I personally vote for option D!)
All I can say is that I would never do that to someone, no matter how ugly, unless there was a very obvious and purposeful misrepresentation. And even if there was a misrepresentation, why not just politely make up an excuse? "My kid's sick" or "work just called" is fine. Why be purposefully cruel to women who are just trying to make a living?
To those who say they'd just dash off and leave the chick because she's committed the crime of you not being attracted to her (in a case where she hasn't misrepresented herself)-- I don't think you are gentlemen. And I only spend my time and charms on true gentlemen.
Casey