… for additional info, references etc. when I request an appointment through P411. That’s her prerogative. And I can decide if I’m comfortable giving her the info she requested. If it’s a reference request, that’s not a problem for me, but I don’t like asking providers to provide references when they’ve already taken the time to give me an OK on P411. Also, P411 requires that members show the provider the ID used for their P411 ID if she asks for it (ok to hide some info like address). But no provider has ever asked to see my ID.
What I DO have a problem with re P411 is when providers don’t respond to appointment requests I send through P411. In my view, responding to requests in a reasonable time should be an expectation of any provider who signs up for P411–assuming the requests are respectful of course. In the past couple of years I’ve gotten several no-responses on my P411 requests. When I follow up with a direct email (in case the P411 email went to spam or the provider has an auto response about her availability), I sometimes get a response on those. I think that if a provider doesn’t have time or inclination to respond to polite requests sent through P411, if only to say she can’t meet on the requested date, she shouldn’t sign up for P411. — end rant 🙂
I’ve done nearly all of my hobbying though P411 for a few years now with no real problems seeing providers…until recently. The last three providers I reached out to on P411 wanted additional screening on top of my P411 membership and Okays. The reason I joined P411 is so I wouldn’t have to give out my personal info to individual providers. Now I’m wondering about the site’s usefulness going forward.
I know that the site itself says providers are encouraged to do their own screening, but in my experience that rarely happened, if at all. I get providers want the utmost safety—I do as well, which is why I only see providers with P411 accounts, meaning they have been screened as well. I don’t think I would get much traction if I asked for additional verification of a provider. This one-way street of safety has me frustrated.
Sorry for the rant.
It's still a much smoother process using P411. I personally don't mind giving an email for a reference or whatever. I think that when people have their system for verification that works for them we should give whatever information they need so they don't have to make changes for someone just because they are onP411 and have a certain number of okays.
So, when she asks for your full legal name, a picture of your drivers license, and a link to your LinkedIn profile, you are perfectly fine handling that over? There are no small number of providers who ask for this sort of information.
Just don't give it to someone you don't feel comfortable giving it To.
No client should ever have to feel forced or nervous about giving up their information, therefore just don't, and move on to someone else til you can get more established, it's the same for the providers. Clients will hesitate on someone who is not well reviewed.
Personally I provide virtual sessions for this reason. It's just another way of vetting and gaining trust
We have found , from someone on the provider side , how easy it is to pass their screening , with minimal information.
I know for some , they really dig into your personal information on p412 but someone must have gotten someone who didn't do their job correctly.
And maybe you feel like you provided with so much more.
Personally because of this reason I will only ask for more Info if the John doesn't have more than 5 okays.
This is just for educational purpose.
Establish yourself just like how everyone else needs to on both client and provider sides.
… for additional info, references etc. when I request an appointment through P411. That’s her prerogative. And I can decide if I’m comfortable giving her the info she requested. If it’s a reference request, that’s not a problem for me, but I don’t like asking providers to provide references when they’ve already taken the time to give me an OK on P411. Also, P411 requires that members show the provider the ID used for their P411 ID if she asks for it (ok to hide some info like address). But no provider has ever asked to see my ID.
What I DO have a problem with re P411 is when providers don’t respond to appointment requests I send through P411. In my view, responding to requests in a reasonable time should be an expectation of any provider who signs up for P411–assuming the requests are respectful of course. In the past couple of years I’ve gotten several no-responses on my P411 requests. When I follow up with a direct email (in case the P411 email went to spam or the provider has an auto response about her availability), I sometimes get a response on those.
I think that if a provider doesn’t have time or inclination to respond to polite requests sent through P411, if only to say she can’t meet on the requested date, she shouldn’t sign up for P411.
— end rant 🙂
This stuff started up a few years ago. If you contact someone using P411 and only have a couple oks or are new I can see someone asking for more information. But if you've been active for years and have many ok's some still want a copy of your ID or other personal information. For me that's not happening ever for any reason. I've got an 11 year record with 50+ ok's if that's not enough I'll move on to one of the other thousands of options.
I short story I've mentioned before. Years ago I met with a well known provider who had pages and pages of reviews. When I met her she seemed very "off" and it was clear to me she had some issues. Shortly after our meeting I found out she was indicted on federal charges and ended up going to prison along with her associate. I was sure glad she never knew my name or had my person info.
Once you give out your personal info you have no idea where its going. It could go in a file, book, cell phone, computer or shredded and put in the trash. I don't trust anyone enough to be assured my info is shredded or burned, 95% chance it will not be.
-- Modified on 6/8/2022 6:21:12 PM
It only has to end up in the wrong hands once.
you are allowed to screen as comfortably as you want and we are allowed to screen as in depth as we want. Both can exist and still respect one another. first, thank you for acknowledging that P411 and the admin encourage and stipulate that providers should do as much screening as they feel is necessary. I think it's also important to note that P411 was sold and is no longer run by Gina; therefore things are not done as they were before. Just some quick bullet points...
• Screening: not *all* client's are being screened by P411 utilizing real world information; some people here publicly admitted it on the MN forum months ago
• Giving "Okays" and managing/reporting bad client behavior is harder now that Gina is gone: if a client requests an "okay", even if we do not feel comfortable giving one for valid reasons such as boundary pushing, getting too physical and leaving bruises or marks, shorting the rate, bad hygiene, etc., we have to unless the client has basically committed gross bodily harm. Personally, and I discussed it in depth last summer, I saw a significant jump in the number of requests from active P411 clients who were heavily, and I do mean heavily blacklisted, and for what I consider serious things (re: shorting, NCNS, using fake money, attempting to stealth, etc.). How they were still on P411? Who's to say.
• Client "Okay" Management: let's say you have 50 "okays" in total over the last 4 years, good on you; but that may not be what we see. Instead as we scroll your "okays" we see, especially now, a lot of red "inactive/retired provider" accounts and/or "okays" that are 18+ months old. I'm not sure about most providers but I do reach out personally to your last 2 or 3 "okays" because "okay" means different things to different people (& based off what I've read not everyone wanted to give the "okay" but they had to). That said, "okays" from providers from 12+ months ago rarely can provide a fresh/good character reference unless you see them often. It's hard to recall the intricacies of someone from 12+ months ago.
• P411 + IDs: I double checked this on P411's website but if we request to see your ID at the start of the appointment you have to show us. If you don't, we are encouraged to make you leave and report you to P411 for them to suspend your profile pending further verification. The information from your client handle (including the name and for sure first two digits) must be visible and match what's on your ID. In addition, you have to leave the photo visible.
I'm not trying nor am I fixin' to argue with folks. These are just a few points that I didn't see on the thread and figured they might be worth sharing...
There is also the risk of communicating with a provider and giving what one would think would be “private privileged prospective client provider communication” and it later gets shared publicly by the provider for tens of thousands to read. I experienced this recently and it really has made me think twice about the provider I see.
Trust no one with personal or confidential information of any kind, even with an NDA eventually you'll get screwed. Once the horse you've been hiding is let out of the barn, everyone knows. It's not like you can hunt it down, kill and bury it. I've been burned so many times by family, friends, business associates there is no way in hell I'm giving someone with a stage name, twitter account, ad site anything of that nature. They would not trust me with their info and I've got a hell of a lot more to lose I can guarantee it.
I've spent many years having good relations with ladies in this arena. Every meeting had I've been no less than utmost gentlemen. I don't write reviews unless asked or if there is a red flag others should know about. If what I built is not good enough and my rep using P411 is not good enough it's time to move on.
Everyone has their on level of risk and should stick with it.
Jesus f'ing christ, Karen, are you still whining about JM disclosing to the board that you were begging to raw dawg her? LOL! If you'd relax and not say some of the most stupid comments on here, she probably wouldn't have taken a slap at your head. BTW and FWIW, I did ask if she knew your real TER handle and I did not get a reply. That's another thing...why are you hiding behind an alias?
Here we go again. Can you get a room with Miggs and just have it out.
This is one of the reasons I rarely participate here, this BS sucks.
I'd relish the opportunity to meet him, I'd prefer a back alley rather than a room though. As long as he continues to make threats to my well being (and say stupid shit on here) I will continue to call his ass out.
Tough guy behind a keyboard! Didn’t I already challenge you to a golf match for $$$ and you chickened out/never responded. I will come up to you in Brainerd if that works for you. Fun summer golf courses up there. Maybe after, we can put back some beers for all the drinks you wagered and lost on the links. Only shit talking. No idea how your golf game is.
Areant you too busy driving around Highschools and GED centers to golf? 
You must have your P411 hearsay, rumor and innuendo talking points all documented for quick copy and paste. I've been on there for about a decade longer than your stage name has existed and don't have any issues. Is it perfect? Is anything? Its a hell of a lot better than sending out personal info or sending references to those who never respond. If this business has one thing it's many who have zero admin skills. Some are very good and a few of the assistants, one in particular is spectacular, kudos to them!
Everyone who is a member knows about the ID situation. Virtually nobody does it and not sure why its even relevant as it was not a point of contention with anyone here. I think I was asked once. I covered all but my first name, picture and the number, no issue. It just proves I'm the member not a friend or someone else.
There is no requirement to give "ok's, none at all. I find about 10-15% don't give them when requested or update them because they don't have the time or admin skills. I've seen ladies more than once that just don't give ok's and barely can answer their emails or text messages. If what you say was true 30% of the ladies would be removed from the platform for failing to respond to appt requests. There is no requirement to give ok's, period.
Gina sold out several years ago. Nothing has really changed at all. Membership numbers on both sides is viewable to all members and has not changed drastically up or down, it's very stable. The requirements to get in are pretty stiff.
If 50 ok's over a 4 year period is not good enough for you, that's paranoia. On the other side we are suppose to consider ladies reputable because they have a twitter account, are on eros or other ad platform, do porn/onlyfans or have reviews on TER? Many of the ladies now requesting personal info have removed themselves from this site. If we asked for their personal info we'd be laughed at or told to go to hell. I'm right there when someone wants my personal info.
I'm all for everyone setting their own risk level 100% but don't spread rumor and innuendo about a platform that is very helpful for what is still an illegal business.
too much time here but there are several points of your argument that could easily be torn apart as you should have used a scalpel and not a sledgehammer with your words. But again, I'm not fixin' to argue. So that being said...
okay, buddy... it's your world, we're just living in it...
-- Modified on 6/9/2022 1:47:21 AM
My beef is you seem to want to tear down the platform at every opportunity. As a member of the community you should be building it not tearing down parts of it or painting parts with a firehose of doom and gloom. What are you trying to accomplish with these continual negative posts about the platform? You have your standards, fine, I'm ok with that and I think everyone is ok with that. Why do you put out info in broad strokes that could prevent others from joining and growing the community? Are more participants better than fewer?
Like everything, things grow with care and nurturing, without that it's eventually going to die. When the economy takes a shit most everyone in this business is going to need every resource they can get. Many of the "twitter" types have not even see that or know what it's like.
I love P411 but at the same time please remember anecdotal evidence has limitations. Just because your experiences are different from hers doesn't prove she is making things up or vice-versa.
Exactly that, anecdotal evidence has limitations and does not apply to an entire service, group. I completely get it and my point was trying to say it's not my world but it's not hers either.
It was not so much that she's making it up it's the fact that she paints with broad strokes implying that "what she knows or hears" is the majority of the platform. Every single time someone brings up P411 on this forum she reply's with the same things implying the entire platform is corrupt. Then add the fact that her "standards" are that someone with 50 reviews over a 4 year period is not good enough. That's fine, she's entitled to that but some will think she's nuts.
Everyone should and must have their own level of screening, use it and move on. No point coming on here bashing platforms that is of no use but to degrade the entire community further. We need more members on P411 not less and not those sitting on the sidelines because there are those painting boogie men with a firehose.
There have been several threads about P411 since last summer that I have gladly left alone simply because of you and your negative energy anytime someone dare speaks ill of the platform. I mean you get so bent out of shape about it, it's like someone pissed in your cheerios. But let us clear the air once and for all. Some of these, I will quote from you exactly:
• "There is no requirement to give ok's, period."
Yes, yes there is. I received an "okay" request and did not respond for two days because I was on vacation. I was sent a second notice from P411 stating that if I did not respond to the "okay", my account would be suspended. I kept that email.
• "The requirements to get in [to P411] are pretty stiff."
Are they? Because there are literal receipts on the MN forum of users blatantly stating they did not have to hand over any real world information to get on the platform
• "50 ok's over a 4 year period is not good enough for you, that's paranoia.":
No... that's not paranoia. That's simply stating
that I am not entrusting my safety based on "okays" older than 12+ months from providers who 1) probably do not even remember you and can provide a fresh reference or 2) inactive or retired providers who cannot personally reply back to me and vouch for you.
• "Everyone who is a member knows about the ID situation."
Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I only brought it up because I have had P411 clients who forgot about the ID situation because they haven't been asked to provide it before.
• "[She] impl[ies] the entire platform is corrupt"
If I thought the platform was corrupt, I wouldn't use it at all. But on numerous occasions, on this very forum, I have said that I believe P411 is a good screening tool to have in one's tool box; however, like *YOU* stated up above, it's not perfect. That's one thing we can agree on: it's not perfect. A person can like and use a platform *AND* still see the issues with said platform. For some reason, you appear to have a belief that both things are mutually exclusive (cannot be true at once).
With that, I have a client I'm excited to see this afternoon so I'm going to go get ready instead of arguing with someone who I will likely never meet.
-- Modified on 6/9/2022 1:29:12 PM
All this is the same same stuff you post over and over on each thread about P411. I could go down the list and give details of a different experience but why? It does not reflect the entirety of things just YOUR experience or things you may have assumed because of what was done/happened.
Get this please, I'm completely fine with whatever your screening method is. Just state it to your clients there or here and move on. Why continually bash the platform? That's the point. Someone mentions P411 here comes Paige with her list of grievances like clockwork saying why she does not do this or that. Nobody really cares we just want to grow the community not list personal reasons to make people question it.
More time fucking less time bashing is good for the community.
reading comprehension isn't valued in this exchange. That's ok. Let me reiterate three things - maybe third time is the charm for you. First. I used my personal history for two reasons: 1) it's my experience - I'm not fixin' to lie about my experiences with a platform and 2) when I use other people's experiences you scream "hearsay" but I cannot name the people who have shared these experiences with me because y'all drove them off TER... I mean literally ran them off but go read their Twitter accounts for that information (re: they delisted). Second, there have been several threads about screening and P411 since Summer 2021 that I have not responded to so don't even with the "here Paige comes" BS lol. The first time I state something in a year about P411 and you were on it like flies on feces. Finally, I've stated repeatedly that I I believe P411 is a good tool to have and to use but a person can LIKE and USE something *AND* have critiques for it. Both can be true at the same time just like a person (re: you) can say "P411 isn't perfect" (it's what you said) and want the platform to grow.
At this point... you made your priorities clear as you implied that when it comes to provider grievances with a platform "nobody really cares"... so I guess it really is your world... so what else would you like Louis XIV?
You are correct that there is no reason to continually bash a platform and personally was on P411 with 15 OKs there before I ever wrote a review on this site.
Als ways felt that p411 along with TER reveiws was the best combination even in the BP days. P411 dropped in personal value to me when they dropped the provider use of her menu specifics so did not get sucked in by some mongers fake menu.
Dropped it awhile back as no longer need it to see the providers I want to see .
Paige is correct about personal information as they never got mine as got on with provider references .
Have heard many stories of providers being pressured to give OKs
Also agree that many providers are so comfortable with P411 they will book without even opening one’s profile. What they should be doing is after they open is check with one or two OKs - yes it defeats one premise of P411 but may supply more honesty then even references as one does not know who told on you.
As for Paige’s tenure in the hobby she has been around a lot longer then the Paige persona and has always been a class act.
To my knowledge she has more Hutzpah then a number of poster here who have to use their alias to make their point and do not seem to miss a change to do it over and over .
"To my knowledge she has more Hutzpah then a number of poster here who have to use their alias to make their point and do not seem to miss a change to do it over and over "
Isn't everyone using an alias? If I look up Paige or OldRanger they don't seem like real names. Can you provide your LinkedIn profile? Home address? SSN? how about place of work? or just a copy of your drivers license or passport would cover it? 
But I think you are right, let the best and brightest of this vibrant, active, high participation community hold the reigns and grow it's participation level to new highs. Participation is so high right now it's hard to keep up and I don't really have time to squeeze in occasionally.
Don't you ever get tired of being a white knight for Paige Savage. It is really tiresome.
I always check with the last 2 oks of a client coming from P411 for the reasons Paige states.
Also, there's no need to take offense at a provider who asks for real world information. If you don't want to do that just decline and move on.
There's enough variety and flexibility out there to please everyone. Just take a breath and keep on keeping on.
So I understand the frustrations by the OP. I too have been on p411 for over 8 years. It has worked great.
BUT.... it is also up to each individual provider and customer to ask for or give out info. IT IS UP TO EACH INDIVIDUAL.
Now with JM talking about only problem for a client is not seeing the same girl in the pictures.... I hope she seen her mistake on that. Because clients have to worry about being robbed, assaulted, extorted, arrested, etc. Lots of the same things as a provider with the possible exemption of sexual assault. We all face dangers when conducting in these arrangements we do.
BUT.... Screening is apart of all of this. So while some think P411 is all that is needed. Others dont. So like people have stated only give what you feel like giving out. If a provider asks for more than you are comfortable with just tell them politely that you are not comfortable giving out that info and move on.
Now kind of back to the OP... You should be more concerned about why pay for P411 if it isn't doing what you think it should. It isn't on the providers.
Also to the comment by someone about not responding to emails or even appointment requests via p411. I too have been finding this frustrating as well. I am not a same day type of guy. I reach out 3+ days to weeks in advance. Once I see a possible provider is visiting and I would like to meet them.... I reach out. Lately it seems they dont like to respond. Which is frustrating. So as a "public service annoucement" to providers if you are not responding back to the P411 messages or possible appointments that are not same day. Maybe put something in your P411 profile that you dont answer them... or a better way to contact you instead of P411 messaging. It would help people out and also keep people from "venting" so to speak or say you are a bad communicator.
Anyways... to sum it all up.... ONLY GIVE OUT WHAT YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH... and Providers.... Screen the way you want to make sure you feel the safest and that typically means we (the client) will be safe too.
Thank you for that, well done. I was trying to get there but people jump in with topic changes or attacking the platform.
The attacks really piss me off because its's the same one's over and over, just let it go! We need more participants not less.
I've been a member for around 11 years. Active in the community for about 10 years prior. I had some fun over those 10 years generally it was a bitch to hook up with someone. I'd been taken for rides countless times, robbed, threatened and had some real shitty experiences too. Two providers I'd seen a couple times talked me into P411 and I've never looked back. I generally only reach out to those on the platform but have had a couple cases where I've contacted well known ladies and they either accept it or will take a couple references. If it works it works, if not it's time to move along.
The covid debacle has affected service levels everywhere. This hobby is no exception so I tend not to get too excited. Things go in cycles and demand has been at an all time high...that is not going to last forever.
P411 at this time limits what we can put in the policy section of our profiles. I tried to edit my policy section with a blurb about emailing me directly and not sending PMs on the platform but it was returned for some reasons. It may be worth trying again because there supposedly is a way to turn off P411's direct PM feature. But genuine question: do people actually read the policy section of a provider's P411 profile?
Others have it clearly written. I think you can turn off PM's. I've seen in the past where there is no PM button and the only way to contact is email or with the appt request. As for policy section, I read every word, I'm sure others do as well because there is not much info to go through especially when many fields are left blank.
Nothing worse than sending a nice introductory message asking about meeting and getting a response "please read my website" or "you must do this".
Sorry if it doesn't work or isn't for you.
I have seen on people's section... NO PM's and what not.
woodchip and I must be one of the rare people who actually read ads all the way when we want to schedule. 
But yes I do read all of the stuff on P411 ads and other ad places I look. I am also one when I try and book or contact thru p411 i always give introduction of who I am, date and time I would like to meet or if it is available. I also ask if a different time is available to let me know as well. Then I also ask... if the provider needs more to screen than just p411... Even if they dont necessarily ask. I always offer. Because I would like to know in advance what steps I need to jump thru or if I feel comfortable jumping thru.
But again it all comes down to peoples comfort level on all sides of this. The client and provider. If one is comfortable with a 10 page screening application... FINE... if they only care that you have a pulse... FINE. It is what every the comfort level is per person on an individual basis. No need to complain about it or "try" to push getting screened or allowed in. It makes you look like an idiot.
In this adventure we are all in needs courteously and kindness. It all makes meeting up that much better in the long run for everyone. Dont need to haggle, push, prod, etc.
Anyways everyone stay safe out there.
Then there's been more than a few instances where gentlemen have shared P411 accounts in the past or accounts have been compromised some other way so I can totally understand why someone would like additional information.
Also idk maybe we don't like being outed, raped or murdered either? Just a thought...
Alot of games on both MNE and P411. Some respond, 80% + do not. I sure miss the Massage Parlors (back in the day) less talk, more action.