As a newbie, and having other happy parts in my life, I am overly cautious.

However, I have been spooked by many local providers simply for fear that there isn't a legit reason to be seeing them for something. I remember a very beautiful and intelligent woman that would write ads for plumbing training, pipe cleaning, etc. It was witty, but it also gave a reason to call them.

Now hear me out, with VOIP and disposable phones, you can have a dedicated line for your Sting if you wanted to try to harass and corral johns. As that number is only attached to sex services type posts, you cant say you were just calling for the Yoga lessons, etc.

So you are initiating contact, that means they can press, and you can't claim entrapment.

Now, hear me out on this overly cautious side. Say you hire a design consultant, pipe cleaner, maid, whatever. She takes an envelope of money and lifting that turns her on, well, even if she says some blatant things that could be worth the write up, i would say that you could easily claim a legit case of entrapment.


So - why dont MN Gals do that more often? Have an erotic massage post AND a therapeutic one? Or some other thing attached to that number (Cleaning, Interior Decorating, Turban Wrapping.. whatever..)?

LE is not dumb or stupid. If they get you or the lady, any claim of entrapment will not fly. How the heck are you going to explain why you are looking for plumbing services or the like on TER, the escorts section of BP instead of the Yellow Pages.

If you get busted, the RULE is SHUT THE FUCK UP. I know this is easier said than done but it still bears repeating. You give them your name and address and wait for LE to either release you to go or arrest you. But that is it.

If you are smart with which escorts you choose to see and do your research you really shouldn't have any troubles. Most problems arise out of carelessness and thinking with the little head. There is the rare occasion where a guy or girl will do everything right and still get arrested but that is rare.

I am not the only one who will tell you this but if you are this paranoid about the hobby then it probably is not for you.

I have seen that before....the Elves do it. They even have a contract for modeling and photo signing. I also have seen providers post ads in the therapeutic section like you said. I just don't think most providers want to take time for preemptive plausible deniablity until they get stung one time.

SM

But I don't think responding to an add is a crime.  
If you only call and make an inquiry, no crimes have been committed.  

Believe it or not common sense does come it to play in court.  If a customer can figure out that cleaning, decorating, etc. is illegal adult services, LE can connect the dots also.  
Signing a contract for a $300 an hour pipe cleaning may not help you.  

The best way for you to protect yourself is do your homework before trying to see someone.  As you are a newbie, I strongly suggest you stick to well-reviewed ladies at first.  Trying to figure out who is legit and who is not is often difficult even for very experienced guys.  And no, I am really not referring to LE stings in this case; I'm talking about girls who do bail'n'switch or other underhanded tactics to rip you off.  Plus, well-reviewed ladies have shown they are good at staying out of LE's way.

Also, be prepared to walk away if you get to an appointment and something is not right.  You don't want to be overly paranoid but a little paranoia is useful in doing this.

And if you do find yourself face to face with LE, as ha already been pointed out, remain silent.  To the bestof my knowledge, you are obliged to identify yourself and show id but beyond that do not answer questions, invoke your 5th Amendment rights, and insist on your right to an attorney.  Do not lie as that by itself can get you in trouble but do not answer their questions.  They are looking for a reason to take you in and build a case against you; do not make their job easier.

Phoning and inquiring about a rate or even showing up for an appt is not illegal. Talking about sex for money is what would get you in trouble.

Responding isnt a crime, but you are engaging them. You cant make a defense out of "i wouldnt have normally done that"

If you know their rates, and lay money on the table. And they pick that up without you offering...

Why do so many get arrested then, just for showing up?   That has always confused me!!

Ive just heard of it alot.....
Maybe they just embarrass and scare the man and then let him go, knowing that no charges would ever stick.

Being arrested even charged does not equate to being convicted. That being said none of the former is a place we want to be. I would agree keeping your mouth shut is the best advice. There is little you can say that will help your cause.
If you knock on the door at a sting operation do you suppose there is much of a chance you will not get arrested? Anybody have a sure fire line we should be using when we step into that door.

They charge them to make the guy hire a lawyer and explain to their SO what they were doing. Typical flat rate legal fee for a misdemeanor charge like that is $3k-$5k. My neighbor is an attorney so I hear all about this stuff.

Then the prosecutors go for a plea agreement (which the lawyers are in on) so they get some kind of record out of it. If you sweat them down they will drop everything. Jury trials are too expensive.

It goes back to what HobbyCity and Vorlon posted (and many others have said in the past)  Name and ID ONLY to LE if you are unfortunate enough to get busted.  Never say a word and I agree, tell your lawyer "No Deal"  I have known individuals who had this happen and if they followed that advice; case dismissed.

BUT, as so many others have posted, avoid it in the first place, do your research, don't let the little head rule (unless it is telling you to see Hilary.....  Practically speaking chances are near zero of this happening to anyone if he is seeing well reviewed women.  

Imo, this line about creating a false ad as a cover is just nonsense and assumes LE is stupid (which from time to time they are, but why take a chance).

Because most guys are idiots they probably said or asked in too specific terms like: "what is your rate for full service?" or when asked by the undercover lady about what he wants, they respond with something like - "half and half", or "can I get a bbbj?" or "a fuck and suck", or something else equally stupid, and this is after price is negotiated or paid.  Even when not actually guilty of anything, they will succumb to scare tactics.  Its best to just place the donation somewhere, go to the bathroom and upon return if she asks what you want, just say I simply want to spend an hour with a beautiful girl.

Sure, try, "I just had cataract surgery, is this room 2338??) or, "Anybody seen a golden retriever I had in here"? or even "Fuller brush man" Just a thought. Bottom line, Be damn careful!!

I've found this link very helpful, it leads to a local attorney law firm website.

that would be too expensive and I dont think aprosecuting attorney would bother..... Is it a gross misdeanor???? It's CERTAINLY NOT a felony, so why would they bother???   Not worth it!!

flattery will get you EVERYWHERE!!  
xoxo

They will send a traffic ticket to jury. Remember, govt doesnt pay for things.

LE can and will do whatever they need to to get their arrest.  I have been told of a few cases where the officer actually engaged in sexual acts with the prostitute and then made the arrest.   It is expensive to hire an attorney but if these girls did, they would undoubtedly win their case.   Instead, most confess and accept the charges and punishment since it is usually just a small fine and probation.   After an arrest, too many people spill their guts out of fear and ignorance.   If everyone would just give their name and address and then stop talking, in most cases, charges would be dropped.    In some (but not all) jurisdictions, certain acts of prostitution are felonies.    With elections upon us, I really don'tthink  the people in power care about the cost of prosecuting one single case.  Politicians care about cleaning up their cities and getting votes.

Think of this as an advertising campaign.

You have a main line - 555-0001
You have a secondary that just forwards, like a google voice 555-1029
you then have another that just forwards, 555-9119

So now, if i was a prosecutor, doing a sting. I would setup that 555-9119 line, to record all calls. Use that number for a fairly explicit add.

Only have that number, the 9119 used for the adds for "escorts" that are posted in adult sections, etc.
Everyone that shows up is showing intent to engage in lewd acts, once money changes hands, its arrest time.

Now if i caught a provider, I could convince them to flip by helping with a sting to avoid prosecution charges, and that dreaded sex offender tag. They give permission to monitor their phone, as it is on adult sites. And since all providers use a Hobby only number, no unrelated calls could be going to the land line. Every call in goes on the record for being a related call.

In advertising, if we have a radio add on 93.7, we will give a number that forwards to it for 555.1029, and monitor whos calling, knowing that they are hearing that specific ad campaign.

Same thing could easily be done for LE.



So - now the converse is there. Should that number be listed elsewhere, for any other purpose, then it no longer is a dedicated Escort line.

Why balk, it seems common sense. But then again i have spent enough time in court for non crime issues to attempt to cover my ass in everything i do. In fact, 10% of my week is spent haggling over risk things like this in agreements..

perhaps my poor grammer does not properly convey my legal mind, but hey - im just supposed to be here to get erections over girls that are too far away from my stupid little town

Anybody have a sure fire line we should be using when we step into that door.

How about "Land Shark"?
Or "Encyclopedia Salesman"...

Intent is enough for it to be a crime.  Of course, proving it is much easier when people actually do something or talk too much.

Lets start by saying that entramptment is a movie. LE specially vice and undercover are allowed to lie cheat, do drugs and even commit "crimes" to lead to an arrest. That's why if you get put in a sticky situation handover your ID and don't say anything until instructed by your legal council. If you play your cards right they will just let you go, depending on how deep of a hole you dug yourself in to. Perfect example of saying too much or digging a hole for yourself, you call a lady set an appointment and while on your way she calls and asks you to pick up condoms. That to me is an auto red light and would never see that lady, why? One she was not prepared and two that is a perfect case where if it is a bust and they search you find the condoms your are shol, possible deniability goes out the window like that.

I've been in other cities and countries where vice poses as an escort in a high profile bar or club and does what you said propose sex for money to someone, in one case one oft travelling buddies. These guys get booked for thinking with the little head because in the end they broke the law.

In the end, if your gut doesn't feel right back out there are plenty of fish however a fisherman can only catch them if he is free!

The DA is held accountable for how they spend the tax dollars in their charge. It's impossible for a petty misdemeanor to make it to a jury trial. It's extremely unlikely for a misdemeanor unless the guy has priors and they want him bad, or the guy is stupid enough to goad them into it. The lawyer you hire makes all the difference.

Actually, government pays for lots of things, I think you meant that it uses taxpayer dollars to do it.  That said, years ago I was a county commissioner of a rural county (county commissioners are elected officials who make up the county boards in Minnesota and the county board sets the budget and oversees all spending in any given county).  Law enforcement is always one of the top budget items, but these days especially, the counties do not have unlimited money anymore, in fact in Hennepin County they are struggling to close a multi million dollar deficeit and all departments have had big cuts, including LE and the county attorney who prosecutes the cases.  They do make charging decisions on the basis of the budget, that is a fact.  Low level, hard to prove cases often do NOT get charged in this fiscal environment.  Just sayin....

And while they may have a lot of resources they also have a lot of demand on those resources.  Yes, they could devote a lot of resources to prostitution or any number of other crimes but that money comes from some place and at the expense of something else.  The average citizen may be in favor of arresting prostitutes and their clients but they are more concerned with murderers, muggers , and the like.  Why do you think LE so often talks about human trafficking when it comes to prostitution busts?  While it certainly does happen and is a horrible thing, it's also a way to deflect attention away from the fact that they are spending a certain amount of LE tax dollars on something that does not protect the public.

Dude -

Your horse died several posts ago and you have no legal mind.  Your Rube Goldberg strategy accomplishes nothing that would prevent you from being charged.

Not a lawyer, but two things:
Since solicitation is in most instances a misdemeanor, the police need to witness the activity.  It is similar to a traffic ticket.  Your neighbor is not going to be able testify that he saw you speeding.  An officer has to use radar or other means to measure your speed.  This why police conduct stings for prostitution.

You can get busted just for showing up.  A man shows up at the hotel room of a young lady who he has not previously met, he is considered to have furthered the act of prositution.  They know why you are there and you'll not be able conjure up an excuse that will get you off the hook.

http://www.startribune.com/local/north/16009807.html

The safest way to play with a new friend, is simply go on a dinner or lunch date.  Hiring an escort to be a dining companion is perfectly legal.  A police officer is not going to waste the time of going on a date and be placed in a situation where fellow officers do not have control of the environment.   Just be certain that you are hiring her for a dining companion and you are splitting up after the meal.   I know of several gentlemen who hire escorts for this specific purpose and no other.  It's an ice breaker.

If a lady should ask what you want from a sexual standpoint prior to a meeting, it is best to avoid her.

Not true, responding to a phone call about something or an email about something, will establish a record that could dispute the peace officers verbal claim. If you respond to a dedicated number for a sexual realated ad, you throw out your option for making such a defense. If you disagree, find a lawyer that parrots this idea.

http://www.liberty-lawyer.com/sexcrimecharges/prostitutioninminnesota.html

The defense of entrapment generally is an affirmative defense where the accused provides evidence in court that she or he (1) was not predisposed to commit the crime; and (2) that the crime would not have occurred but for the actions of police, for example police coercion.

...

However, your mention of hiring for a date is a good one, anbd thank you for it. So the biggest risk is doing incall. Meeting in a public place that results in sex. So a "get to know you" date is an option, just lunch, etc? Then scheduling another day?




misdemeanors aside, the logic that police will not pursue easy charges vs difficult felonies is a gross miscalculation. However, youre right in the sense that incall would always be the worst possible idea.

They still have to prove intent of a sexual act even if you pay the girl for her time; because you could pay her for an hour of her time just to preach the gospel to her.

Dude -

You're batshit nuts (new favorite phrase).

You think you are going to win at trial where it will be your testimony against sworn peace officers and folks who could not get out of jury duty are going to believe you?  I don't think so Tim.  You're the pervert in their eyes.

Even if you win, you lose.  Newspapers love covering this kind of stuff because people read it.

First, shut the fuck up until you speak to competent counsel.
Second, you take an Alford plea that allows you admit that they have enough evidence to prosecute you even though you are not formally admitting guilt.
Third, pay a fine and take a community service sentence.
Fourth, attend John's school.
Five, after doing the above and not having any more offenses get the charge expunged from your record after a year.  (Cops will still know, but employer background checks won't)

This is a small, if embarassing, beef.  The legal system wants to get you through it as quickly as possible.

Jeez -

You'd give Johnny Cochran a headache with this stuff.


or you could try.

Doing your homework and staying away from unreviewed ladies.

What the harm of simply just advertising some other service?

And if you're right, than how come entrapment defenses work.

And that is why the add is the key. A picture of an ass with a add like "bliss" means no gospel likelihood.

Vs same number elsewhere for something else. Well, you called that, for that. And the sex was a surprise.

Just makes Sense to hedge bets. If I'm wrong it's what. 5 more dollars on Bp?

From an Earlier Link:


Prostitution Defenses


Defending a prostitution charge requires a skilled Minnesota prostitution attorney who can look at your case and decide the best options for defense. There are three primary options for defending a prostitution charge in the state of Minnesota:
1.Entrapment Defense: Entrapment occurs when a government official (such as a police officer) entices a person to commit a crime that they otherwise would not commit. Proving entrapment is often difficult in prostitution cases because offenders actively seek out prostitutes without knowing that they are undercover police officers. This makes it easy for the prosecution to argue that the offender’s act of prostitution was premeditated and not forced.

In additional, the police can use a civilian, say a provider they've turned into an informant, to actually have sex with you and then bust you.

Give it up dude, this is the world's oldest profession.  You think you are going to come up with a Perry Mason defense to for a misdemeanor?  The police and prosecutors have heard it all before.  You have to remember you are the one that is going to be tagged a pervert.  

If you are going to engage in this activity, you have to accept that you may get caught and you are not going to Perry Mason yourself out of the situations.

How many news reports have you read of a John beating a prostitution beef on an entrapment defense?  Again, even if you win, you lose because it'll be your name in the story.

I've not heard of it being successful though.