For girls; A LEO can lie legally. Asking if a man is LE or stating in ads that the client agrees that he is not a LEO is less than worthless so lets quash this myth. Yes, a cop can touch. Thinking a cop can't touch is also a myth The best strategy is to never discuss money before the act. You may want to state basic prices in your ads but never discuss money in person before the performance. After the performance ask for a "loan". The risk is that you may be stiffed (pardon the pun) on occasion but this is far better than being arrested. The great majority of hobbyists are honorable and honest. For those that are not, get the word out to your friends. They will not be able to get a provider. Revenge is a dish best served cold.
For boys; Did you read what I just told the girls?????? Bear in mind that I doubt a female LEO would ever allow a touch so if you get a look or feel of the goods you are going to be OK. Don't worry about price, sure you might have to pay a little more than you wanted, or even come up short, but after the fact you will know, and if the girl is worth it you can make it up next time.
For EVERYONE; Become a regular. Top performance on the part of providers and gentlemanly behavior on the part of hobbyists insures repeat encounters and greatly lessens the amount of contact with unknown strangers, and MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!!!!!! the fifth amendment to the US Constitution guarantees your right to remain silent. Take advantage of it. Do not try to outsmart the cops. They are not trying to help you! They will not ask exculpatory questions, they are just trying to pin you down. Give them your name, give them your ID, and then just shut the fuck up and demand to speak to your lawyer.
please look for the "contribution" on the sites and do not ask what the "rates" are. Maybe we need a weekly Schill thread, a weekly photo thread and a weekly mini tutorial on how to hobby thread.
I do not ad on bp... only TER and P411. It seems only the TER folks end up asking for "rates". I am new and regularly redirect folks to the websites in emails and then when some men are here with me, I just throw up my hands and say "that is up to you, I hope you read the info on the sites, and it is always to your discretion."
I do whitelist every chance I get and OK every chance I get to help everyone. This is a good practice. If all the upstanding men all have a long whitelist and OK list behind their handles what a wonderful world and how many hours of tedium, worry and headache it would save us all.
For boys; Did you read what I just told the girls?????? Bear in mind that I doubt a female LEO would ever allow a touch so if you get a look or feel of the goods you are going to be OK. Don't worry about price, sure you might have to pay a little more than you wanted, or even come up short, but after the fact you will know, and if the girl is worth it you can make it up next time.
For EVERYONE; Become a regular. Top performance on the part of providers and gentlemanly behavior on the part of hobbyists insures repeat encounters and greatly lessens the amount of contact with unknown strangers, and MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!!!!!! the fifth amendment to the US Constitution guarantees your right to remain silent. Take advantage of it. Do not try to outsmart the cops. They are not trying to help you! They will not ask exculpatory questions, they are just trying to pin you down. Give them your name, give them your ID, and then just shut the fuck up and demand to speak to your lawyer.
I've made my own set of "rules" to keep from getting caught, and while I've had a number of near misses over the years, I'm 25+ years into this without any police-intervention in my quests quell my testicular-demons... But bragging about that wasn't my main reason for inseminating this thread controversy...
What I'd like to know is has ANY of this actually been tested in court? Do we have any case-study that shows an putting an amount in an envelope and leaving it on the dresser actually gets a guy off the hook for solicitation??
Do we know for a fact that an all this theory about "don't mention the donation, look on the website for rates, pay exactly what is mentioned on the website and don't negotiate any extra services at the date" really has ANY FUCKING EFFECT on the legalities of the situation if a sting-team has set you up, or if your room is under surveillance from a room full of donut-munchers next door, or if hotel-staff has alerted the task-force that 50 guys have come and gone from the same lady's room every like clockwork over the past three days?? Personally I think this is a bunch of old-whores-tales and don't/won't mean shit if there actually is any LE interest in what's being done behind closed hotel-doors!
What I think is this has been a long standing strategy of the provider-community to keep the clients paying the rate without questioning/negotiating and a tactic to deflect any unfitting of services by the client by offering more cash in person to tempt a lady into services beyond the standard-offerings... But what do I know? I've ply fucked a couple thousand girls in every way, shape and form with every imaginable variable of circumstances, for 25+ years without EVER giving verification information, and NEVER putting any money in a stupid envelope! I've negotiate for better services, extended time, overnight stays and anything else you can imagine in real-time, in person, cash-in-hand, and NEVER had a girl refuse to take it! (However, one thing I've never done is negotiate a lower rate with a girl for services, that's just a personal boundary of mine, as long as she holds up her end, I won't compromise on what she asked for if she won't compromise on what I'm asking for in exchange)...
-- Modified on 6/23/2013 7:50:46 PM
Fair question to want evidence and I would love to see it too. That said, the best evidence for certain strategies is right there in the news stories about stings. What do the cops always try to do? Get the mark to agree to sex for money over email and then again in person. Once they have that, they bust, but not until. It makes sense that evidence of such an agreement would make it slam dunk for a jury or judge, and that absence of such evidence makes it harder to make the case. More defenses are possible. But does LE let people go, do prosecutors decline to charge, or do juries acquit? I would love to see numbers as well.
Also, when arrests are made, names (and sometimes mug shot photos) are published prior to any convictions or plea agreements.
DJ, the whole envelope thing is for the providers protection, not for the client. It negates the need for her to discuss money. Of course I should have mentioned to also only see women with reviews.
What I'd like to know is has ANY of this actually been tested in court? Do we have any case-study that shows an putting an amount in an envelope and leaving it on the dresser actually gets a guy off the hook for solicitation??
Do we know for a fact that an all this theory about "don't mention the donation, look on the website for rates, pay exactly what is mentioned on the website and don't negotiate any extra services at the date" really has ANY FUCKING EFFECT on the legalities of the situation if a sting-team has set you up, or if your room is under surveillance from a room full of donut-munchers next door, or if hotel-staff has alerted the task-force that 50 guys have come and gone from the same lady's room every like clockwork over the past three days?? Personally I think this is a bunch of old-whores-tales and don't/won't mean shit if there actually is any LE interest in what's being done behind closed hotel-doors!
What I think is this has been a long standing strategy of the provider-community to keep the clients paying the rate without questioning/negotiating and a tactic to deflect any unfitting of services by the client by offering more cash in person to tempt a lady into services beyond the standard-offerings... But what do I know? I've ply fucked a couple thousand girls in every way, shape and form with every imaginable variable of circumstances, for 25+ years without EVER giving verification information, and NEVER putting any money in a stupid envelope! I've negotiate for better services, extended time, overnight stays and anything else you can imagine in real-time, in person, cash-in-hand, and NEVER had a girl refuse to take it! (However, one thing I've never done is negotiate a lower rate with a girl for services, that's just a personal boundary of mine, as long as she holds up her end, I won't compromise on what she asked for if she won't compromise on what I'm asking for in exchange)...
-- Modified on 6/23/2013 7:50:46 PM
Well, if you you do any of those things and that is the time LE busts in then they have you dead to rights. If you haven't done those things, it makes it harder for them to prove anything even though they may well still take you in.
I have always understood that if you agree to meet, there's money in the room, and you end up messing around with the person, then most juries are probably going to assume you are guilty.
Check out some of the myths linked in the site below. These "myth lists" are fairly common on defense attorney sites all over the world. Of course, they are trying to make you think about getting a lawyer, but they are still helpful when looking at what actually constitutes prostitution. If everyone took this information to heart I think most of us would be even more cautious than we already are.
About the main topic here I just have a few comments:
1. Yes, LE can lie, so asking if someone is LE is pointless.
2. LE might use a confidential informant anyway (CI), with a bug on them, and just have the officer waiting outside as back up. A CI can lie, have sex with you, break the law, and pretty much do anything a civilian would do. Although I do think it's pretty unlikely that most would go as far as actually having sex with someone. I'm sure they would just get you to mention something about condoms and then arrest you.
3. Even though hotels are a public place, and are therefore judged more harshly than a private residence, as long as neither of you is an undercover officer or CI they are pretty safe. Most upscale hotels will simply ask you to leave if they suspect something, since having the police swarm the building and arrest someone for prostitution isn't great for business. It's not like they can prove much anyway-- as someone on here so eloquently put it the other week, "they aren't going to bust in and arrest you two for making monkey noises behind closed doors."
And just like I suspected, most of the so called "etiquette" that is the provider-enforced standards-of-practice really are just useless old-whores-tales based on superstitions and uneducated guesses...
I remember back in the day when hookers were on every corner of Lake Street, there were always cop-decoy ladies out there too, but they were so ridiculously easy to spot! Lady-cops still look like "cops" even when they're wearing a tube top and cheap high heals... Also they don't reek of "bad lifestyles choices and addictions" when you get up close, so they were easy to avoid. I have to believe the same is true for backapage girls, I'm always suspicious if the ad is too well done. If most of the words are spelled correctly and the sentence structure sound like it was written my someone educated, then it's probably a cop that wrote it. But then it's an also an advantage to me that I only like the young ones, because when they say "putting myself thorough school" in their ad, they probably mean cosotology-school! (Add that one to the list of "myths", college student by day, escort by night.... RARELY is that ever actually true either!)
So are you saying that escorts can't be educated or spell correctly?
Often when I see an ad with very poor spelling or grammar, I think of pimps or agencies.
As for pimps and agencies: a clear indicator that an agency is posting is that they use words like "busty" in their wording, which girls typically don't use in describing themselves.
Pimps, or "boyfriends" pimping their girls, you can tell by the look on the girls face when her picture is being taken... Also pimps tend to sprawl the girl out on the hood of their car when taking the pic...
Two of them use the same pics for any girl they have regardless of looks, use the same 4 or 5 phone numbers for different girls and often mix up the pictures and names lol such as the blonde named amber has been called Ellen or something else.
Not to mention the misspellings and grammar
Thank you for clearing that up because there are many of us who are intelligent and educated .. Some of who are using this forum regularly 
cxoxo
Check out some of the myths linked in the site below. These "myth lists" are fairly common on defense attorney sites all over the world. Of course, they are trying to make you think about getting a lawyer, but they are still helpful when looking at what actually constitutes prostitution. If everyone took this information to heart I think most of us would be even more cautious than we already are.
About the main topic here I just have a few comments:
1. Yes, LE can lie, so asking if someone is LE is pointless.
2. LE might use a confidential informant anyway (CI), with a bug on them, and just have the officer waiting outside as back up. A CI can lie, have sex with you, break the law, and pretty much do anything a civilian would do. Although I do think it's pretty unlikely that most would go as far as actually having sex with someone. I'm sure they would just get you to mention something about condoms and then arrest you.
3. Even though hotels are a public place, and are therefore judged more harshly than a private residence, as long as neither of you is an undercover officer or CI they are pretty safe. Most upscale hotels will simply ask you to leave if they suspect something, since having the police swarm the building and arrest someone for prostitution isn't great for business. It's not like they can prove much anyway-- as someone on here so eloquently put it the other week, "they aren't going to bust in and arrest you two for making monkey noises behind closed doors."
Thank you to the beautiful Casey Case for the informative link and thoughtful analysis.
...how incredibly sexy logic and literacy can be. Not only am I smarter now, I'm horny too. Thank you Casey.
That's a good list in the link, but it makes no distinction between really obscure LE techniques and the every day. I googled on MN arrests for prostitution and read all the news stories in the first ten pages of results. Every story was one of two things:
1) An LE sting based on Backpage where they created fake ads to entice clients or responded to ads drawing providers to an outcall at a hotel.
2) stings set up in response to complaints from neighbors or customers that a given location was being used for prostitution.
The most involved local sting I found was an escort whose business name was given to the cops by the caller. LE set up a sting via her web site, which they said took them months. Lot of work for one misdemeanor charge (it was out of her apartment), so I can see why this isn't done more except in reponse to complaints.
Not that the other stuff isn't important but it seems to make sense to prioritize protection from the most common tactics. Discretion, screen, then screen the screeners. And its probably only a matter of time before agencies here start setting up stings based on P411 or TER in addition to Backpage, if they aren't doing so already.
Well, I don't know the New American and how it leans, but I came across a link to it a few minutes ago related to your right to remain silent.
"Guilty or not, suspects in the United States no longer have the right to remain silent. If they remain silent, moreover, that silence will now be interpreted as guilt and will indeed — despite what you see on television court and cop dramas — be used against that person in a court of law. Even, in fact, the highest court in the land."
I am not sure if it is just hype to grab your attention (it got me to read it), but I thought I would share it any.
-- Modified on 6/25/2013 7:39:07 PM
"Guilty or not, suspects in the United States no longer have the right to remain silent. If they remain silent, moreover, that silence will now be interpreted as guilt and will indeed — despite what you see on television court and cop dramas — be used against that person in a court of law. Even, in fact, the highest court in the land."
I am not sure if it is just hype to grab your attention (it got me to read it), but I thought I would share it any.
-- Modified on 6/25/2013 7:39:07 PM
I like what this responder says:
What the decision says is that, in order to "take the Fifth", you must expressly *state* that you are taking the Fifth. Otherwise anything you say can and will be used against you... and silence is a statement, just as zero is a number.
I DO mostly agree it's a ridiculous decision, but it's not accurate to claim your right to not incriminate yourself has been removed.
As usual, it's been narrowed juuuuuust a teeensy bit more from what it was previously.
This is not a stabbing death, it's the death of a thousand cuts.
Be angry, but be yelling about the right things that are being done.