Something has been brought to my attention and I am rather conflicted about it.  Bottom line, it is none of my business but then again it is my business. Fortunately, I have never been in this situation but it pains me that this has occured, and I must be vocal about it.

Word has gotten to me twice now that one of your hobbiests has been extremely rough with travelling providers. He will not listen to a woman saying no, and continues to be very rough during the session. He also has a lingerie fetish which the provider was not willing to partake in his fantasy. This is a well respected member of TER in your community.  I have concerns for two reasons: there is no mention of this in his numerous reviews, (only vanilla sex) secondly, his aggresive behavior is getting worse.  

Providers: remember you can walk at any time you feel uncomfortable, regardless of who that individual is. If you do not, you might be the one who is able to.



-- Modified on 6/21/2004 12:48:12 PM

Unfortunately, as a "follow up" hobbyist I heard the same story from the (most likely) same provider. This gives the Twin Cities a bad rep. which it shouldn't have. 99% of the hobbyists here are good hearted guys. A word of advice to all contributors to this board: This is a hobby, not a way of life. If you're big contribution to society is being the top dog on this board, you need to reprioritize your life. And give these girls the respect they deserve. Anything less diminishes you, the Twin Cities area and the girls who make the effort to visit here. I rarely post here, but this one hit close to home since I heard the tale as, I'm sure, the net girl did. Thanks for reading.

Aggresive behavior will only get worse if not stopped! Providers have to use this board, the phones, and E-mail to get the word out and not tolerate this form of abuse and disrespect! This hobby should be about fun and meeting good people, and this hobbyist doesn't sound like much fun so stop it!

when did we get a "godmother" in the house now?  any relation to the Godfather?

I have watched you make MANY posts on many different boards. I always am a little leary when information like this comes second hand rather than from the original person of these aledged events.

This sounds like hobbyists bashing to me and is very derogatory.  Secondly, whatever fetish a person may have and does behind closed doors or that is mutually consenting is not an issue in my book.  Ifit is otherwise then there are issues.

Maybe these "two" providers should speak up?

just my .02

I'd be careful to too qucikly discard Netmichelle's comments as just being hollow jabs.  Despite her flamboyantly erotic posting style on the boards, those that have gotten to know Michelle nationally and here in MN have always found her to be a very straight shooter, one of those rare people who is just completely transparent in all her dealings.  She's not one to just stir the pot of local politics just for the sake of it.  We have enough people to do that right her at home.

There have been some quiet local grumblings about an overly aggressive hobbyist lately, even before Michelle brought it up.  The problem is that it really has to be handled "on the QT" by providers through their own back channels.  (I'd like to get into Michelle's back channel!)  It's not like a reputable provider can name names here on TER...  Their local credibility with hobbyists would crumble overnight and they'd be in hot water with TER as well...

Ultimately that means that these kinds of warnings (a) have to be vague, and (b) have to come from more distant sources like Netmichelle who don't have as much to lose than a local provider because she doesn't depend on her Twin Cities reputation for her livlihood.

just my .01

I'm sure anyone who hobbies can find one lady who will provide a reference even if there are 5 others who would warn ladies to the contrary.  It's too bad we don't have a national list for ladies that is complete and reliable.  

I had a gent scare me the other night.  It's not fun!  I'm glad your friend is OK Michele.  

I doubt it will happen. I have been waiting, and since I have nothing to gain or lose by mentioning this here I have brought up the topic. I will not name names on a board since I have never met the individual, and I can't say this first hand. However, I have heard from 2 separate sources regarding this in another state, and now I have numerous personal e-mails that confirm this. Coincidence? I think not.  I may post often and have wry sense of humor, but bottom line I care. It is not in my nature to sit back and watch the shit hit the fan. I am way too proactive. As far as fetishes, I *adore* fetishes, bring them on! The more the merrier. Asking someone to do fetish play when they don't want to be wrong.  Being very rough with someone when they keep saying no seems like sexual battery to me. I don't care if they pay for it. It doesn't seem right. I hope he gets some therapy.  Peace.

I hope this mess gets sorted, and soon.

We live in an era of cell phones, which means caller id, and a easy way for LE to track who has been calling.  The vulnerability of providers is something I worry about too, in part because I have a soul, and in part because if a domestic violence scenario ever escalated to the worst-imaginable outcome (not uncommon for abusers), you can bet that LE's first concern will be to catch the guilty party (as it should be), and our collective privacy as hobbyists would be priority number 87398741 (meaning not importnant at all).

No one wants LE to show up at dinnertime asking why YOUR cell phone has been calling the number of a victim, esp. as the wife and kids look on.

If you're an abuser, please get help before you do something you really regret.

Like they used to say on Hill Street Blues...Lets be careful out there...

I am....SeniorPorno

Assholes like this make it hard for everybody.

The likelihood that this individual is going to seek help on his own is, as a former co-worker used to put it, "slim and none and slim's out of town" IMHO.  I suspect he feels entitled to what he wants from the lady by virtue of the fact that he is paying.  If he has a family, he may even be abusive towards them.  He will probably keep doing this until it blows up in his face somehow.  We can only hope that no one else gets seriously hurt or in legal trouble as a result of his predatory actions.  Spread the word by all means but in all likelihood he will keep managing to find someone who doesn't know what he is like.

These providers did speak up through appropriate channels, and did not try to post names and post this information on TER.  Netmichelle had the forethought to wait to post anything until she received the same information from two different sources about two different providers.  Lifeguard1, please keep in mind that this board is an open forum; you say what you have to say, pointmen say what they have to say, so what is the problem when an escort posts what she has to say, particularly about such an important issue as escort safety.  

As OmegaZap says, this type of issue needs to be handled "on the QT.  It's not like a reputable provider can name names here on TER...", but that doesn't mean that an escort has no other choice than to just put up with unpleasant behavior.  The hobbyist in question should have thought about his behavior long ago, but most likely after getting away with it for so long because no one would speak up, he became too complacent. The fact that he sees more traveling escorts than well reviewed local escorts has made it easier for him to behave badly. What goes around comes around... karma... !!
 

I have to commend you for sharing any pertinant info that will keep us providers safe.
If you were here right now you would get a big hug (our boobies would be touching and kiss.
Thanks for looking out for your peers.
XOXO
GINA

Having been madwe aware of this situation independantly by two sources, only one of them being NetM related- I have to say that this is a bad deal all around.

We all deal with a line of privascy in this game.  Cross over the behaviuor line and your privacy can and will be untimely ripp'd from you!

This is a little like M, the movie.  The heat from a child murder investigation is so hot that the underworld joins the cops in outing the guy- just to be left alone.

What happens when a lady is actually hurt?  TER would be gone through like a book and all the little side activities would be open to invetisgation too.  Do you want that?  Do you want to be on the otherside, impeding a murder investigation?  The fallout could get very messy indeed.

I think you guys need to think about how you want the hobbyist community to be seen and viewed.  Both in the TC and elsewhere.

And Dude, get a grip, you get to rent, not own.  If you want to go deep, pick partners who want to hang.  Choice is still the sexiest part of the game.

Sully
Trying to be non-judgemental but still hoping for reason from my T-Wolves lovin' bros

Gina,

Are you a friend of Lacey's?  You should come and visit us in Minneapolis some time.  Maybe the two of you come together.

Papastevie ( aka Snarfy )

Lacey and I were talking about it.
Actually I was there a long time ago.  The reason I have not returned is 'cause a client told me that there are no entrapment laws in Minnesota.  I will research it and if it is not true I plan on visiting in August.
Any comments about this?  Anyone?
Thanks for your interest.
GINA

I'm not a lawyer, BUT I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express... ;^)  Come to think of it, I think I got nailed in a Holiday Inn Express!  Anyway...

I suspect that virtually no states have entrapment laws.  Most states have searchable statues on line...  Go to the sites in other states you visit and search for the word "entrapment" and I suspect you'll come up empty handed.

Entrapment is a defensive claim, not a criminal offense, and is therefore defined by court rulings, not by state statute.  It's not illegal to entrap, rather it makes your offense "excusable" if it is found to be entrapment.  I also suspect that our rules regarding entrapment are the same or similar to other neighboring states within our federal circuit.  Ours includes ND,SD, NE, MN, IA, MO and AR.

Entrapment is an enormously misunderstood concept, and if you are planning on using an entrapment defense as part of your plan to make your providing safer, you might as well set aside savings for the fines.  There are many ways to protect yourself, and the entrapment defense isn't one of them.

Because it is an affirmative defense rather than a criminal charge, the burden is on you, not the state, to prove that you would not have committed the offense were it not for the undue influence of LE--so much influence that any "reasonable person" would have succumbed in similar circumstances.  If you can imagine trying to convince a judge, a panel of judges, or a jury, who have a stack of your subpoenaed phone records, emails, and your website that you were just an innocent bystander ensnared by the evil system gone awry...  That's the reality of the entrapment defense.  And best of all, your presentation of the entrapment defense means you acknowledge having committed the crime, so if the defense fails there's no going back.  (You can't claim you were tricked into doing it and then later say "oh that's right, I almost forgot, I actually didn't even do it at all!")

Hope this helps


-- Modified on 6/22/2004 7:43:08 PM

Omega, man, this is informational. what's the fix to come out unscathed. What should one to do when encountering such situation. Thank you.

-- Modified on 1/4/2006 5:42:48 PM

Thanks for your input, but I think you misunderstood me. I am not looking to use entrapment as an excuse in case I ever "got in trouble".  I was simply concerned since a client mentioned to me that LE will go through the entire session or a part of it and still arrest you.  I know that can happen in any City.  The client told me that this happens often in Minnesota that is all.  I have not researched it, since I have not been back. I am now reaching out to this community for individuals as yourself for feedback/opinions/knowledge on the subject.  Afterall you guys know more about what goes on within this community in your own City.
In response to your assumption about my phone records, e-mails and website.
I do not need to go into details or how and why.  But in order for LE to access my real identity and connect me to my website, e-mail and phone number, they would have to jump through hoops get a warrant to track this back to me without it there is no way to prove that I am that woman on the ad.  I hae set up my phone, e-mail and website in such a way that it would be very difficult to track.  I am not saying it is not possible, anything is with LE.
Also something to think about aren't we all playing a dangerous game by posting and mutual paticipation?!
I would rather not discuss this any further in a public forum, afterall we both know that LE or even the Feds read these boards.  If you wuld like to comment further you may e-mail me at [email protected].
Again thanks for your 2 cents on this.
XOXO
GINA

-- Modified on 6/23/2004 2:26:03 PM

I will not divulge any information unless it is to a provider with a verified site, PM, e-mail and I feel comfortable enough to tell her. Le would have a field day with this, and would love to expose all sorts of players in our game under the pretense of catching him. It is better to be discreet.  I understand your need to know,  but it is not for this forum.  Now when he tries something with someone, the future provider will hopefully be informed by the local ladies and gents who have figured out who he is. If I say who he is, publicly here he will go underground. It is better that you can track him, and catch him. He enjoys TER and the power that it confers him. He enjoys the respect that he has in your community. Let us be informed, watch and then take action. He knows he is being watched.

I dropped a hint in my original post, which I have now modified. Enough people who needed to know figured it out. I hesitated to say anything because I knew of the inherent problems that would inevitably happen as a result of me talking about this.  Subsequently to my initial post, other women have contacted me from your city and have confirmed the story, as has the victim.  She is not the only one, there are many more. He knows that we know, and he is not happy. I find it interesting that to this date and time that he has not posted to this thread, but has been posting as he usually does, on other threads as if nothing has happened.  Denial.

I am coming back to the Twin Cities, and I will be very happy to schedule him first thing and exercise those 13 years of martial arts and nail his ass. It would be my pleasure. No charge. Too bad I didn’t meet him last time, as he expressed interest and then balked. Perhaps I could have prevented  some of all of this from going down. I guess I was too well reviewed and not a traveling provider through an agency.  I refuse to stand by and watch a lady die from too much rough play because she thinks she needs to submit to providing “special treatment” for your pointman reports so that she can successfully tour your city.  I am not judging anyone or the practice of the pointman report; I am just saying what I have heard. Again, I have never met the lady who had this happen to her or the others, but when I travel to her city, I am taking her out to dinner, and I will hear her whole story, while I hold her hand.

On a further note, just in case shit hits the fan, I recommend all ladies dump all info, and gentlemen buy pre-paid phones with fake names so that provider’s phone numbers don’t show up on your account.  (buy at Target—don’t register with your real name.) It would be bad if a victim’s  number is on your phone, and you get called in for questioning, right? Gentlemen, be patient with ladies who will now be screening more in your cities. It is for your safety as well. If shit hits the fan---don’t get tied up in it all, take extra precautions.  It is too small of a community and vice has lots of time on their hands. Now is the time to be more careful. This hits home for me, because I have some close people to me that have history with this, and I have heard all of this before. This type of behavior always escalates into other venues, more pathological, and devious. Knowledge is power. Keep your eyes open. Be safe.

Michelle, you're killin' me here...  The more hints I hear the more it sounds like me...  I'm well known (though not necessarily respected) locally, have a lingerie issue (but just one, black thigh-high stockings make me crazy)...  And while I haven't contributed to them much, I have been a vocal proponent of pointman reports.

Not to make too much light of a serious issue, but I'm starting to suspect myself...  I'm going to start listening in on my own phone calls and may start to have myself followed!

And cool it with the 'tude would ya...  If you vent ALL your frustrations here, there won't be any left to work out on me!

NetMichelle:

Your postings are fun to read, but geez as Omega says, there are plenty of us for you to work on!!!

Hangin

-- Modified on 6/23/2004 6:14:37 PM

Please be aware that I am speaking for myself only in this post, not for anyone else who has contacted Michelle on the subject of 'rough' treatment from this particular hobbyist.  I stand by my original statements wholeheartedly, which contributed significantly to Michelle's post.  Michelle heard my statements from a third party, and I'm very grateful that she had the courage to bring my situation and the entire issue of potential for injury to escorts into this open forum.

I want to be fair and honest now and say that since Michelle posted originally, the individual concerned has contacted me and I have received a very sincere apology for any rough treatment which occurred. I have been assured that it was never his intention to hurt me or anyone else, and have been assured that he will be much more careful and pay more attention to feedback from his partners in future.  I have fully accepted this apology and intend to put this behind me and move on.  

Michelle's public disclosure has resulted in a heightening of awareness of the potential for injury during a session, and a great deal of good has come from her courageous disclosure.  I would like to sincerely thank all parties who have contributed to allowing me to be at peace with this issue and I hope other escorts involved will find their peace also.  

Sincerely
Suzanne in San Diego

you say this person is well respected. why?  why is the respect granted. i dont disrespect anyone until there is a reason. before that point i am nuetral until my respect is earned. you must earn my respect,i dont just hand it out. dont get me wrong i like to what all you guys and ladies have to say. but as far as the guys your just a name on the screen. i just cant hand out respect to people i dont know.  

i hope im not rubbing anyone yhe wrong way,that is not my intention.

blackball this SOB,the agencies dont need him,the ladies certainly dont need him,and us guys definatly dont need him. he can take his pointman reports and his custamary first appointment and shove it.im sure a got the right guy and if i dont them im sorry but i think im right based on all the other comments.

         STOP GIVING HIM APPTS  

     an abuser will not stop until some one stops them. violence will only escalate until someone really gets hurt,god forbid. ive heard and seen enough about this sickness in my extented family to know what im writing about.

         one last thing  this man if you can call him that is a punk. thats right your a chicken****  little punk who hides behind the keyboard pretending your somebody that your not. good riddance.

We would (almost) all like to see two things happen.
1)  The perpetrator of these abuses stops doing them.
2)  The perpetator of these abuses is punished for his misdeeds.
How likely are these things to happen?  It seems to me NetMichelle is hoping that by exposing his behavior the perpetrator will be "shamed" into stopping and/or no longer be able to get appointments with ladies.  I am dubious about being able to shame this individual into behaving although it's better than the other alternatives.  Certainly, none of the ladies should see him.  However, even this will most likely drive him underground so he is seeing ladies who are isolated from the provider community and not aware of his abusive behavior.  Perhaps at some point LE will nail him.  We all know the potential downside of that.  Perhaps somebody will beat the crap out of him.  I think if we could all be sure who it was, NetMichelle would have a long line behind her waiting to take a shot.  The odds of this having a happy ending are damned long indeed.
One other point.  It's clear NetMichelle strongly believes she knows who is responsible for this.  While she, for understandable reasons, does not name him directly, the comments in her postings really narrow down the field enormously.  However, I have not seen or heard any of the evidence she has.  Has anyone else?  I am not saying she is lying.  I have no reason to doubt her sincerity.  She makes very strong accusations though.  We should consider the possibility that she is wrong about who is responsible.

-- Modified on 6/23/2004 7:06:36 PM

please Private message me and let me know who this person is so that i do not book with him
thank you

Dear Michelle,
I must say well done, Michelle.  It seems that many guys, in this venue and in the world in general, forget that every girl is someone's daughter.  To raise a hand to or force a woman to do something that she does not want to do is abhorrent to me, as it should be with EVERYONE.  There is NEVER an excuse for the type of violence you have explained, and I thank God that I have NEVER had it within me to resort to it.  Perhaps if you visit the East Coast again I can take you for a ride Eight Miles High.

EMH

Why do you think this man only sees travelling ladies? Why do you think he never can get repeat business? Meaning a girl who will  never see him twice. And in the rare occassions that he does see someone twice, the provider is unforutnately for her often a  bottom feeder who has to see anybody to feed her ten starving children.

Think of your guy friends. Think of the guy amoungst your group of friends who is always talking about the different girls he gets every night and what a stud he is in bed. A little secret.... most likely he has a small penis, is bad in bed, and girls never come back for seconds. He then has to SELL himself to his friends and strangers to convince  himself and them that he is a sex god. Its the quiet reserved friend who has been with the same person for a long time that is king kong in bed. There are always exceptions to every generalization, but this anagoly can be translated to this hobby. The more reviews, the more posts, the bigger the ego the worse the client. Dont ask me why this is, it just is. At least most of the time.

Thanks michelle I havent read the other posts yet and I dont have time but thanks for your post.  Perhaps the travelling grils should excercise better judgement and make use of the screening process. Its not that hard to spot the bad ones. They always slip themselves up. Thats all I have to say about that.

This is an example of the point I was making in the later thread about piling on.  You acknowledge you have no idea what happened, don't have the time or inclination to read the other posts about what did happen, and probably aren't aware that the issue was resolved, but still have to throw a log on the fire?

"I don't know what happened or why, so it must involve a guy having a small dick."

So now we have an axe-mrdering, child-molesting, serial rapist in a gorilla suit packing heat loitering around playgrounds AND he has a small dick.

Why can't we rise above this?

-- Modified on 6/24/2004 1:16:55 PM

trust me, you don't need to worry about that!!!!!!

Is TER really a primary method for providers to communicate with each other?  Based on the postings I see here and the conversations I have had with some ladies, that doesn't seem to be the case.