As I peruse the boards, and the revues, I notice that quite a few hobbyists like a bit of variety.  I too fall in this category, but I wonder how many hobbyists have a regular provider that they see?

I used to see a WONDERFUL provider who went by the name of Brooke.  Anyone else remember her?  I haven't seen any sign of her for 3 or 4 years, and I do miss the sessions with her.  Blonde, young 20's, just gorgeous, and full service for $150!

Those were the days huh?

Personally, I don't have a regular girl because the cost of the hobby has gone sky high in the last several years.  I figure it like this:  If I can't afford to see a provider every 3 weeks or so, I'll not build up much of a rapport with her anyway, so I may as well keep going for the variety of a new girl.

That said, I sure do miss the good old days with Brooke.

Anybody else agree?

ScrimmDaddy

p.s. Before I get flamed, lets just say that in this instance, I'm all for the free market economy, and every girl has a right to set her own price, ok?

I agree.  Why are rates continuing to increase at a rate well beyond the rate of inflation in the middle of a sustained recession?  Most markets operate on the principal of supply and demand.  So, are the rates going up because there are more clients demanding more frequent service from a smaller supply of providers?  If so, it makes perfect sense that rates are skyrocketing.

Strangely enough, I think just the opposite is occurring.  Cash-strapped hobbyists are cutting back, and more women are getting into the business for the same reason.  So why aren’t rates DROPPING?  I submit that a lot of providers are more concerned about maintaining an “elite” image than they are in maximizing profits.  They look at the handful of legendary providers who can actually sustain demand at 300+ because of their hard earned reputations for consistently superior service over time, and think “If those girls are worth that, so am I!”

The majority of providers would actually make more money at $150-$200/hour than they do at $300/hour, but they’d have to swallow their pride.  I know that a lot of the unproven providers charging 300+ are lucky to get 2 or 3 gigs a week.  They could easily increase demand for their services by cutting their prices.  Would they rather make 3x300 = $900/week, or 10x200= $2,000 a week?

I am not suggesting that provider run an assembly line business at a very low rate, even if it does make them more money that way.  The logical thing for them to do would be to start with a lower rate and a target number of clients they’d like to see in one day, and then raise prices incrementally once they begin to meet these targets on a consistent basis.  If business drops off too much after the increase, they should repeal some or all of the price increase.  If they still can’t keep up with the demand for their services without seeing more clients than they feel comfortable with in a day, they can raise them again.

The other myth is that charging a higher rate will get you better clients.  I’ve never seen any evidence that wealthy people are more polite or respectful than people of more modest income.  In fact, I find the whole “I specialize in catering to UPSCALE GENTLEMEN” thing laughable and a little insulting.  It implies that wealthy customers make better clients, but really means “I think charging high rates make me high class.”

Well put, Moonray.

Here I thought I was the only one who felt that way.  My last episode included a $300 price tag with a provider who was not quite done with her period.  WTF?  She's new, and she also did mention that her phone doesn't ring too often.

I can also think of a provider who charges $250, has few rules, speaks greek, and is quite busy.

Food for thought.

ScrimmDaddy

I agree totally with Moonray.  This hobby appears to have a couple of "price points"

On the lower side it appears to have the "economy models" that are ok looking and do not provide a GFE or have limited services.

There are mid price ladies that offer FS with some limitations.

There are the GFE/PSE ladies that offer FS with very few limitations with the exception of Greek lanquage. that are in the $$$ price range.  In my experience, these ladies have provided a very nice time and good value for the price of admission.  Would I like to spend less and see more ladies...You Bet!!

Like the old saying goes:  You get what you pay for. I find the "A list" ladies provide more of what I am looking for.

Reo you have a regular provider?

I’ve been seeing a "A List" provider on a regular basis (2 to 5 hours a month) for over three years now.  When I started out I could afford only an hour or so per month, but once I established myself as one of her regulars, the rates started to drop, well below the $300 rate you see now.  I would say on the average over the last year or more I’ve enjoyed what you had with Brooke.  And yes, I do remember her.  

If I had to start over with someone new I would definitely choose carefully and try to establish myself as one of her regulars.  I would think there are providers out there that still offer specials to their regular guys.

As a relatively new hobbyist, I really appreciate this thread.  To see that veterans are expressing some of the same concerns that I have is a relief.

In searching reviews on this site and on others, the prices in the Twin Cities DO seem to be a little high.  Granted, we do have a high cost of living here and are a little bit more affluent than other cities, but the economy still affects us all.  As an example, there are probably quite a few members here who could and would spend more money per month if they were getting more value...say $1000 per month for 4 $250 sessions, instead of $800 per month for 2 $400 sessions.  It's all about ROI, Return On Investment.  Some of us would spend more money if the return was greater.

This isn't meant as a slam to the providers, just as a point of view.  I'll continue, as a new hobbyist, to enjoy your services.  Just know that I'd spend more money per month if the prices were a little lower.  Wouldn't that benefit us all?

Just my $.02 worth.  Be well, everyone

Reo you have a regular provider?

Like I said on an earlier post,my past few trips to Marshalls were much more satisfying than my trips to Marshall Fields,even though they might be a little more crowded and harder to park.The correlation between price and service does not always match.Having said that, you guys who spend $$$and $$$$ on new providers with no reviews or profiles, get what you deserve. Our area is blessed with many great ladies with proven,professional backgrounds,regardless of price.

Reo you have a regular provider?

I tried the same but instead of valuing my regularity, my provider kept raising rates (from $$ to $$$+). guess what? i'm no longer a regular (go figure...)

Laker

-- Modified on 9/25/2003 1:19:04 PM

5 hours for 1000.  It was intended to give my regulars a benefit.  I have been doing this over the last year.  They love it.  It has also attracted new clients and gives ones that want extended dates a better rate.  Works well for all of us.  But what I want to add is that men should not dictate what a provider values herself at.  And I think it is easy to forget all the bills that go along with providing incall, (which has gone up over the last year alot) advertising also went up, phone bills, cost of living etc.  There seems to be an assumption of wealth with some of the postings.  This by far is not the case with most.  Most girls I know live apt to apt. Still freting over paying rent, tuition and so forth.  I dont believe that anyone should run a get em in get em out at a cheaper rate.  That is more along the lines of brothel.  That only brings service down.  She then has to work twice as more, taking more risk/traffic to arrive at the same rate.  Not fair to her or any of the clients.  You guys see what happens with the girls that run themselves this way.  S*** attitudes, bad service and your now just a number in her long day.  But like I have said before there is someone for everyone.  All looks, price ranges, ethnic groups, etc.  If you dont find what you need with one there are many girls to choose from.  Just my thoughts.

Thanks for the perspective.  We often don't see the other side of the fence.  While I agree with others that rates are a little out of whack, hearing your side of the story takes the edge off and gives a little insight.  I am a hobbiest that has to save for my indulgences, but I value the quality time I receive versus a lower rate provider that makes me wish I had never picked up the phone.  I always seem to make my rounds to an unproven provider that makes me say "You dumbass!  Stick with what you know!"  I guess everyone wants more for less these days, whether it is an Extra Value Meal at McDonalds or an Extra Value Meal with a provider.    While I have not seen you before Madison, I value your thoughts and opinions and wish you the best.  Maybe we can get together in the near future.  Take care!

Let me first say that I agree with your statement that a provider has every right to charge whatever rate she sees fit.  I am not disputing that.  Does charging a high rate make the best business sense for the majority of providers?  No.

I can only think of two reasons why anyone charging $300 an hour would be barely scraping by:  lack of business, or severe financial mismanagement.

As I’ve already stated, I also agree that providers shouldn’t be expected to burn themselves out running an assembly line.  It would be completely insane to think that providers could bill 8 hours/day like other businesses.  I’d say the upper limit would be more like seeing 4 clients a day max, or 20 billable hours a week.  Since its better not to overstress yourself, and run close to your limits, let’s just say 3 is the ideal number of hours to bill per day, 5 days per week.  15 hours x 300 = $4,500 a week!

OK, I hear you, that’s revenue, not profit.  The biggest expense incurred for taking incall appointments is the hotel expense.  Let’s say $100 a day x 5 days = $500.  So, profits are $4500 - $500 = $4000 – advertising expenses.  I have no idea how much it costs to take out an ad on Eros or TCU, but let’s just assume, for the sake of argument, that it is so outrageously expensive that it equals hotel expenses ($500 a week).  This still leaves a profit of $3500 a week.  $3500 week x 50 weeks = $175,000 a year!  If a provider can’t live on that, they need to seriously readjust their lifestyle, because I believe that puts them in the upper 2%!

But what about general housing and living expenses going up in the Twin Cities?  Those expenses are irrelevant, in my opinion, because everyone incurs these same expenses regardless of occupation.  By this logic, the prices for all services in the Twin Cities market should be skyrocketing, and inflation would be very high.  It isn’t.

What, $175,000 a year, you say!  Most girls charging 300+/hour aren’t making anywhere near that much.  I agree.  They aren’t.  See above:  Lack of business because of the high prices they are asking.

When a provider sees only one client a day because of low demand, overhead as a percentage of revenue is much higher.  It is a much bigger hit breaking the expense of a hotel room over one hour vs. three.  If a provider books a $100 hotel room for a single customer, hotel expenses = 33% of revenue.  If she breaks the hotel expense across three clients, hotel expenses are only 11% of revenue.

This doesn’t even take the following additional factors into account:

- Saving boatloads of money on hotel expenses using services like priceline.com.  I’ve booked $120 rooms for $45!

-A reduced need for advertising if you can establish a loyal customer base.

-Providers who don’t report the majority of their profits because it’s a cash business with no paper trail.  In other works Net Profits = Gross profit.   Taking this into account, a virtually tax free $175,000 would bump a provider to the top 1% income wise.

The tax thing is killing me.  And so is the pay per year you have the providers at.  TAX FREE ya right. GOT PRISON??  Most of us dont want trouble like that and pay a S***load of taxes.  Try low end of $20,000 being due each year or more. You dont account for health insuarance, 401K and so on and so on.  Also you are thinking that all providers stay in Motel 6 or something a $45.00 hotel room that was $120.  I tried priceline once and got screwed ended up in a dump at what they consider to be a 3 star hotel.  GRoss.  Also girls that worry about how many times they stay in a hotel cannot do that.  You can end up in the same hotels over and over again.  Because you have no idea what place it is,that's why it is cheap. Works great on travel but not local hotels for us.  Also a great many girls dont have or want hotels on their CC Cards.  So that goes out the window.  They pay cash, most often at regular rate.  And please also know that when we have conventions in town, sports games and so forth you pay much more.  Once I had to pay $230.00 for a low end place because all rooms were booked.  Also your thing of 3 to 4 clients.  Most hotels that would be wayyyyyyyyy too much traffic and good way to get busted. Not slinging here at all but your numbers are way off.  Also working 7 days a week.  I would not recomend anyone do that in any biz.  Also it is forgotten the girls who are in school, have other jobs, obligations, child care expenses, etc etc. We do have other things going on.  You just cant sum this all into some numbers and think everyone runs the biz the same way.  No two of us do. Just trying to clarify the many things that arent always thought about from the other side.  Take care guys Madison

U tuition per year aprox. $17,000                                                         Low end taxes $20,000 per year                                                     Retirement etc depends on girl                                                    Clothing, lingerie, supplies can really add up                                                              Hotels per month low end $2,000 for those who supply them on a reg basis.                                                          Day care $1,000 plus for avg 2 kids.                                                      School expenses for kids in a year several hundred                                                       Day care expenses for her working hours........several hundred a month                                                          Medical bills for provider with kids and lack of coverage god forbid any ER Visits or Hospital stays....around a $800 per month                                                           Avg rent for 2 bedroom $1,200 per month.                                                           Cell phone low end $100.00 month.......one told me of a $1,000 bill in one month.  OUCH                                                            Advertising rates doubled and tripled on some popular sites.                                                           Retaining a lawyer........spendy but priceless.               And I could go on and on and on.  with the questions to the girls that left the biz cause of babies..........they could not afford to work and had to move home with mom and pop.  So much for being wealthy.

-- Modified on 9/25/2003 7:31:08 PM

I'll take your word on those expenses.  My point is that most of those expenses fall into one of two general categories:  the cost of supporting a family, or general expenses involved in being self employed/running a small business.

Most self employed individuals face the same dilemma of having far more unbillable hours than billable hours in a day because they have to run the whole show, including sales, administrative, and accounting functions; none of which are billable.  They also are forced to incur overhead unique to their particular profession equal to or greater than those of a provider.  The main difference is that very, very few of them can get away with charging anything even remotely close to 300+/hour.

The fact that you can cover the complete cost of your college education, in addition to everything else, without incurring huge student loans, shows you are doing very well.  Most students working other jobs while attending school graduate 10’s of thousands of dollars in debt.

I hope that means you're not taking any of this personally.

I hope you don’t think I’m the big bad wolf, trying to blow your house down.  I’m a nice guy, really.  I just like to debate.   I know most guys treat pretty girls with kid gloves; as if they are intellectual inferiors incapable of rational thought.  I find that a bit patronizing.  I’m sure you are quite capable of defending your points without me going easy on you.

For the record, I was addressing providers’ rates in general rather than addressing the rates of any specific provider.  YOUR optimal rate may very well be 325/hour.  I stand by my statement that $300 is not the optimal rate for the majority of providers.   Most would be more profitable if they lowered their rates rather than waiting around for someone to pay them top dollar just because you and a few select providers are able to command such rates.  They are putting the cart before the horse.  If they lowered their rates and concentrated on building a solid foundation, they might be able to raise their rates in due course.

Look at Eros.  Virtually everyone there wants 300+, but most of the providers advertising there have no track record, or a poor track record.  They think they deserve 300+ just because you get it.  Of course everyone wants to start at the top, and it’s certainly their prerogative to give it a shot, but the majority of providers would make more money charging a lower rate.

Reo you have a regular provider?

Until recently I was limiting myself to $$ level
providers.  I am starting to look at the $$$ price level,
however at that level I expect mind-blowing service and
a good attitude.

Cost is an issue, since I like to hobby 3-4 times or more
per month.  One a week is optimum.

What I am hoping to develop is a list of 4-5 regular providers, who I can rotate for variety, and are relatively easy to get
a hold of and schedule, and of course provide great service.

I used to travel for business a lot, and things do vary a lot
from city to city, whether the subject is escorts, massage girls, or strip clubs.  Now I'm spending more time at home,
and discovered TER earlier this year.

Best all-time experience was several months I spent in San Diego. The Tijuana girls are wonderful.